Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

I find it beyond belief that Boggles can't admit he is wrong about stuff.

& i don't really get why you're trying to justify it?!

Boggles thought Liverpool would not finish 2nd lst season. We did.

He was wrong.

Boggles thought Liverpool would not be Utds biggest threat to the title. They were.

He was wrong.

Al, I'll put it to you this way. I thought Liverpool were involved in the race last season, the same way I think other sprinters are involved in a race when Usain Bolt is running.

Jesus lads, you would argue black is white.

Makes for quality reading though :pac:

A soccer thunderdome would be a good idea.

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

I find it beyond belief that Boggles can't admit he is wrong about stuff.

& i don't really get why you're trying to justify it?!

Boggles thought Liverpool would not finish 2nd lst season. We did.

He was wrong.

Boggles thought Liverpool would not be Utds biggest threat to the title. They were.

He was wrong.

I'm not defending him but are trying to change someones opinion instead of accepting it and moving on. It reminds me of the debate I had with The Muppet years ago about Keane and Saipan, we in the end accepted each others opinion and moved on. I can see why you think Boggles was wrong and would agree that Liverpool were in the title race but I can see why a UTD fan was sure his team would won the league and never saw Liverpool as a real challenge.

If you can't accept someones opinion and move on I don't know what to say really

5starpool

So if Villa had hung onto that lead against Utd, or drew at least, Liverpool could in no way shape or form have won the lead? Same if the Arshavin 4 goal burst had not happened in a game Liverpool should have won?

Mr Alan

is that an admission you were wrong boggles?

Villain

rarnes1 wrote: »

A soccer thunderdome would be a good idea.

Now there is an idea, I'm going to quote this in the other thread.

GLaDOS

Had to be done

Mr Alan

Villain wrote: »

If you can't accept someones opinion and move on I don't know what to say really

Boggles thought Liverpool would not finish 2nd last season.

They did.

He is maintaining he wasn't wrong.


Its not my intolerance of his opinions, its his inability to admit he was wrong.

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles thought Liverpool would not finish 2nd last season.

They did.

He is maintaining he wasn't wrong.


Its not my intolerance of his opinions, its his inability to admit he was wrong.

You see thats because you can't accept in his opinion Liverpool finishing 2nd doesn't mean they were in the race for the title.

Mr Alan

he.did.not.think.they.would.finish.second.

they did.

he was wrong.

sorry for being snotty there, but what is difficult to grasp there? this is not differing opinions, in the words of my esteemed manager, these are fahcts.

Villain

Mr Alan wrote: »

he.did.not.think.they.would.finish.second.

they did.

he was wrong.

sorry for being snotty there, but what is difficult to grasp there? this is not differing opinions, in the words of my esteemed manager, these are fahcts.

Well the argument is shifting then imo I thought the argument was he thought they wouldn't be in the title race. If he said "he.did.not.think.they.would.finish.second

Then obviously he was wrong about that, but thats not what I thought this argument was about

Morzadec

Boggles in fairness to say Liverpool wern't involved in a title race last season is just plain ridiculous. Maybe your definition of title race differs from common opinion but as far as any pundit/neutral fan/anyone has a clue about football, there was a title race on.

Do you remember the Liverpool Arsenal game? Do you remember how big that game was? Do you have any other United fan friends? Because I do and they were shitting it the whole match and cheering on Arsenal as if they were United because they knew how close Liverpool were. Difference between them and you is that they are rational fans who are willing to look at a situation objectively.

The whole build-up to games like this you would hear the words 'title race' non-stop. Okay I'm sure you'll argue this is some sort of marketing ploy by Sky etc... which of course they will play up to, but still to suggest Liverpool weren't in the race is ridiculous to be fair.

United were never not favourites of course. You could be very confident that United would see the League out, yes fair enough, but that dosn't mean they weren't invloved in a race.

If you weern't invloved in a race then that game against Spurs would've been no biggy. Instead it turned out to be one of the biggest games of your season. How could that comeback have been of such great importance unless it was to effectivle put Liverpool out of the title race? Do you remember how long that match thread was and how massive that game was? I suppose you'll tell me it was a match of minor importance because the League was destined for Old Trafford all along?

Boggles

Did I say Liverpool wouldn't finish second?

The Muppet

Man this one is even beyond me. There's 19 teams involved in the title race each year, some have a realistic chance of winning , some havn't.

end

Mr Alan

fairly sure you predicted Liverpool would spend the season messing around in 3rd/4th but cant be arsed looking back.

just to put an end to this argument.

you predicted West Ham would beat Liverpool a few weeks ago. So......you can be wrong!

GLaDOS

The Muppet wrote: »

There's 19 teams involved in the title race each year

Ehh...

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

Man this one is even beyond me. There's 19 teams involved in the title race each year, some have a realistic chance of winning , some havn't.

end

:eek:

The Muppet

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Ehh...

Ehh...

Fromvert

The Muppet wrote: »

Ehh...

Psst.... there are 20 teams in the race

Boggles

Fromvert wrote: »

Psst.... there are 20 teams in the race

Not recently.

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

Ehh...

I never usually do this but

http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0903/double-facepalm-demotivational-poster-1238022040.jpg

The Muppet

Jesus . Al will be using this to prove all my posts are wrong now.

Ok 20, I had forgooten about the pool :cool:

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

fairly sure you predicted Liverpool would spend the season messing around in 3rd/4th but cant be arsed looking back.

just to put an end to this argument.

you predicted West Ham would beat Liverpool a few weeks ago. So......you can be wrong!

I was the one shouting from the roof tops liverpool would finish 4th.

I was wrong.

but to soften the blow.

We went on and won it.

thems the breaks

Mr Alan

you were not alone NTL

noodler

whatawaster wrote: »

If we hadn't sold Keane we would have had 15m less to spend this summer, obviously, otherwise Rafa either a)wouldn't have sold him, or b) replaced him in Jan if it wouldn't affect our Jan budget

Jesus, you can't say that as fact. You just can't - you don't know if there was another 15m available but Rafa was simply happy with N'Gog and Babel as backup. You, yourself can NOT say it and make it true. How would the owners have gotten away with letting us take in 35 million in transfers in the summer just gone but only spend 15m?

Boggles wrote: »

Amm, no he couldn't have, concrete laws in place to prevent anything like that from happening.

What he did was pretty fooking evil, putting his own interests at the detrement to another professional is evil in my book.

Slight over-exaggeration.

whatawaster wrote: »

I've no doubt Keane wanted to succeed at Liverpool and his "best interest" was to do so.

But hey, who am i kidding. I don't give a crap about Robbie Keane. I care about Liverpool. A club who cannot afford a 20m signing warming the bench.
Therefore, what was done in the summer was done and couldn't be undone and selling Keane in january was the right thing to do. Keane was treated perfectly fine

By the way, in response to your earlier comment - i value the actions/opinions/rights/whatever of a Spaniard equal to that of any Irishman. The fact that you obviously don't says more about you

You'd have to be a Rafa fan to the point of idol to think Keane was well treated.Our club can't afford a 19 million pound striker on the bench but who stuck him there when he was needed in key games?
Moreover, but we can have a 11.5 millions pound Babel on the bench non-stop for a couple of years? Or a 15m Mascharano, a 12m Alonso, a 6m Lucas or a 20m Aqualani? We can't/couldn't play them all - someone has to be on the bench.

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm sorry, but on this point and this point alone, i have to vaguely agree with Boggles.

rafa's way of handling players did not suit keane, and you could see that. rafa, in his stubborness, is not the type of manager to put his arm around a player. he has to take some responsibility in that.

robbie has to look a little at his attitude too of course, but rafa is not blameless.

rafa didn't fancy him, and was sold. thus winning the boardroom battle. (i.e. keane had been used in the power struggle).

No problem with Rafa not fancying him but his failure to replace him leads many to wish they still at least had the player Rafa didn't fancy.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Jesus, you can't say that as fact. You just can't - you don't know if there was another 15m available but Rafa was simply happy with N'Gog and Babel as backup. You, yourself can NOT say it and make it true.

so you think Rafa has 15 odd million available to him that he chosen not to spend it in the last transfer window? didn't Purslow, Gillette & Rafa talk about how we used all our budget?

noodler wrote: »

How would the owners have gotten away with letting us take in 35 million in transfers in the summer just gone but only spend 15m?

Probably the same way they can get away with spending nothing. Or the same way they can get away with loading all the debt onto the club. Or the same way they can conspire behind Rafas back to get Klinsmann into the job.

Like it or lump it, they can do whatever they want, and they have been in the main.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

so you think Rafa has 15 odd million available to him that he chosen not to spend it in the last transfer window? didn't Purslow, Gillette & Rafa talk about how we used all our budget?



Probably the same way they can get away with spending nothing. Or the same way they can get away with loading all the debt onto the club. Or the same way they can conspire behind Rafas back to get Klinsmann into the job.

Like it or lump it, they can do whatever they want, and they have been in the main.

Right Alan, then its another reason why Rafa should quit.

If Keane was forced on him over Barry he should have quit, if the owners have taken 15m from him that he earned (back) by selling on Keane then he should quit.

The idea that a situation could have occurred last summer that we would taken in 35 million and only spend 20 is BS for me. No way would they have gotten away with it - its just too transparent even for Joe Blog.

Mr Alan

i agree that Rafa should quit. i said on numerous times that if Rafa was my mate, i'd have told him to get the **** out while he still has his sanity.

kryogen

5starpool wrote: »

So if Villa had hung onto that lead against Utd, or drew at least, Liverpool could in no way shape or form have won the lead? Same if the Arshavin 4 goal burst had not happened in a game Liverpool should have won?

if i had picked the right numbers for the euromillions last night i would be a multi millionaire

whats your point?

Mr Alan

Kryogen, you know wat his point is & i have no doubt you agree with it. Liverpool had a chance to win the title last year, surely you agree with that?

CCCP^

Atleast we hopped the face off United at Old Trafford last season, wonder if we can do it again this season, hmmm.

Headshot

CCCP^ wrote: »

Atleast we hopped the face off United at Old Trafford last season, wonder if we can do it again this season, hmmm.

at least doesnt put Trophies in the cabinet

at least

SlickRic

CCCP^ wrote: »

Atleast we hopped the face off United at Old Trafford last season, wonder if we can do it again this season, hmmm.

to be fair, that's not important.

they can beat us 6-0 everytime we play for all i care if we win the league in the end.

ntlbell

5starpool wrote: »

So if Villa had hung onto that lead against Utd, or drew at least, Liverpool could in no way shape or form have won the lead? Same if the Arshavin 4 goal burst had not happened in a game Liverpool should have won?

if's?

You're really scraping the barrel with this.

Very unlike you.

if liverpool won more points than united, they would have won the league.

this is how it works. 38 games most points wins.

liverpool failed to rack up the points, too many draws and dropping points against mediocrity.

they lacked bottle when out in front, they didn't know how to deal with the pressure.

this is also proved by the decent run they had once united took hold of it.

the business end is a mental battle the villa game is just another example of the die hard mentality that is demanded by SAF the obsession with winning that is instilled in the players from the SAF and the staff around him.

you don't have to look to far from rafa on the bench to see other men who wasn't good enough and couldn't get the best from players and if you can't do it at bolton where all they had was spirit what sort of input can you have at liverpool?

if if if if

tis a sad day.

5starpool

kryogen wrote: »

if i had picked the right numbers for the euromillions last night i would be a multi millionaire

whats your point?

ntlbell wrote: »

if's?

You're really scraping the barrel with this.

Very unlike you.

if liverpool won more points than united, they would have won the league.

this is how it works. 38 games most points wins.

liverpool failed to rack up the points, too many draws and dropping points against mediocrity.

they lacked bottle when out in front, they didn't know how to deal with the pressure.

this is also proved by the decent run they had once united took hold of it.

the business end is a mental battle the villa game is just another example of the die hard mentality that is demanded by SAF the obsession with winning that is instilled in the players from the SAF and the staff around him.

you don't have to look to far from rafa on the bench to see other men who wasn't good enough and couldn't get the best from players and if you can't do it at bolton where all they had was spirit what sort of input can you have at liverpool?

if if if if

tis a sad day.

My point is that there were razor thin things that happened at the end of last season that went the other way.

Obviously utd got the most points, and thus deserved to win the league. However, to say that Liverpool were never in with a shout is disingenuous at best.

After the Arsenal game it was always going to be very difficult for Liverpool, but the late goals that went in by Macheda late on in 2 games that might not have at another time obviously were the results that picked Utd up from their mini wobble of losing 2 in a row.

Of course late goals count every bit as much as early goals, but the effect they have is heightened. I;m not turning this into a big, complicated what if scenario, but saying there was never a chance is just ridiculous, and not conceeding as much is churlish, not to mention wrong (morally wrong even, which would make it evil apparantly).

Edit: Weren't you (ntlbell) doing a lot of iffing about Carragher and the possible sending off in the match a couple of weeks back?

ntlbell

5starpool wrote: »

Edit: Weren't you (ntlbell) doing a lot of iffing about Carragher and the possible sending off in the match a couple of weeks back?

yes i had to, because some liverpool fans didn't understand the implications of him not being sent off.

CCCP^

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair, that's not important.

they can beat us 6-0 everytime we play for all i care if we win the league in the end.

I'd actually be happy with that but it looked a bit too easy last time at Old Trafford.

ntlbell

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'd actually be happy with that but it looked a bit too easy last time at Old Trafford.

it's called being led into a false sense of security

we planned it

lordgoat

The way i see it, liverpool didn't lose the league at the end of last season, they were always playing catch up. If things had gone wrong in the villa game as suggested they'd have gone right in another for united. They were in control of the league and ran out comfortable winners again. All the Villa game was cement the mentality that the league was theirs and wasn't being given up easily.

Headshot

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'd actually be happy with that but it looked a bit too easy last time at Old Trafford.

omg

so is that what it has come too, beating ye're arch rivals over winning the PL

someone needs a reality check

SlickRic

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'd actually be happy with that but it looked a bit too easy last time at Old Trafford.

i'll get the popcorn...

ntlbell

Headshot wrote: »

omg

so is that what it has come too, beating ye're arch rivals over winning the PL

someone needs a reality check

and i was told all ready this is not why rafa is loved on this thread.

golden gloves and beating united.

pretty small asks i guess.

5starpool

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'd actually be happy with that but it looked a bit too easy last time at Old Trafford.

Not a good trade there, is it?

Headshot

5starpool wrote: »

Not a good trade there, is it?

5star thats a brilliant trade

we'll bite your hands off

CCCP^

Headshot wrote: »

omg

so is that what it has come too, beating ye're arch rivals over winning the PL

someone needs a reality check

Well one outcome is a real and attainable right now - Liverpool can beat United. Sustaining a title challenge is probably not on the cards for atleast a year or two, probably more. I realise that and I'm happy about it. I'd love for Liverpool to win the league and I'm proud they came so close last year, ideally you want your team to go out and win the league, but it didn't happen. They did play some amazing football, and also at times some not so great football last season.

CCCP^

5starpool wrote: »

Not a good trade there, is it?

Take what I can get at this stage mate.

Headshot

CCCP^ wrote: »

Well one outcome is a real and attainable right now - Liverpool can beat United. Sustaining a title challenge is probably not on the cards for atleast a year or two, probably more. I realise that and I'm happy about it. I'd love for Liverpool to win the league and I'm proud they came so close last year, ideally you want your team to go out and win the league, but it didn't happen. They did play some amazing football, and also at times some not so great football last season.

bloody hell I keep reading that ye were challenging last season ?

edit

its only a season ago mate, more or less the same squad, while other teams around you have weakend or not strengthen much. ye should be sustaining a title challenge

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

bloody hell I keep reading that ye were challenging last season ?

dear God...

Headshot

SlickRic wrote: »

dear God...

slick your to quick with the quoting

yes I think liverpool were challenging for the title last season

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

slick your to quick with the quoting

we've all done it.