Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Because I thought he was POOR.

So much so I already gave Ridgewell man of the match.

You done?

Johnson played very well the other night.

He wasn't excellent but he had a very good game, he was our best attacker hands down.

To say he was poor is a complete load of BS tbh.

Boggles, the place would be a duller place without you for sure !

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean 10 others?, it was him the contested the ball that ultimately led to the goal.

no it wasn't - the ball that came in at the back post was hit over his head, the ball then looped in and Skrtel messed up the defensive header and allowed the goal to happen.

Not Johnson.

CHD

Boggles wrote: »

Well 1 stand out moment would be when he Failed to defend the header from the free kick that led to the goal.

What about all the times he skinned their LB and stuck in good crosses and his link up play with the attack? Was this poor?

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean 10 others?, it was him the contested the ball that ultimately led to the goal.

You are totally deflecting in this post aswell, hows about answering the question?

Boggles

mayordenis wrote: »

no it wasn't - the ball that came in at the back post was hit over his head, the ball then looped in and Skrtel messed up the defensive header and allowed the goal to happen.

Not Johnson.

No he didn't he misjudged the flight of the ball and was outjumped on his side of the box.

CHD wrote: »

What about all the times he skinned their LB and stuck in good crosses and his link up play with the attack? Was this poor?

Apart from an excellent run which led to the first goal, can't remember one decent thing he did that led to a chance?

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean 10 others?, it was him the contested the ball that ultimately led to the goal.

well ridgewell, your man of the match, headed one ball back into the centre of the goal which lead to a goalmouth scramble which should've been a goal for us.

ere' go, by your definition, he was poor too.

johnson was class, and gave ridgewell, who did perform pretty well given mcfadden was playing ahead of him, a horrible time.

CHD

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he misjudged the flight of the ball and was outjumped on his side of the box.



Apart from an excellent run which led to the first goal, can't remember one decent thing he did that led to a chance?

Well then you think he is poor because you have a selective memory when it comes to Liverpool.

Boggles

CHD wrote: »

Well then you think he is poor because you have a selective memory when it comes to Liverpool.

What else did he do so? Remind me?

CHD

Boggles wrote: »

What else did he do so? Remind me?

He owned the right side of the pitch playing RB. Was very dangerous going forward and solid at the back. That's hardly a poor performance. You seem to be the only one who thinks his performance was poor. What does that tell you?

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he misjudged the flight of the ball and was outjumped on his side of the box.



Apart from an excellent run which led to the first goal, can't remember one decent thing he did that led to a chance?

Very very very harsh Boggles. The man Johnson was on ran center as the ball was kicked, Johnson obviously followed him. Meanwhile, NGog's man peeled off to the back post, Ngog followed, but ineffectively. After Johnson saw the flight of the ball he tried to get over to that area again, but was wrong footed having followed his man. But NGog should have done much much better in tracking his man to the back post. Now, what Johnson possibly did wrong in this case was to carry out man marking instead of Zonal, possibly under instruction, possibly under instinct (not been doing zonal himself for long), but either way to say he had a poor game entirely due to this one incident, which had a number of factors involved rather then just being "his fault", is quite a bit over the top.

Incidentally, watch this and you'll see many more good things he did
http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-v-birmingham-city-27282

SlickRic

ha, i've just watched that highlights package.

johnson was at fault for neither goal (vaguely arguable the first), made the first one, made what should have been another one for Stevie, got to the bye-line on at least 4 or 5 occasions, put in cross after cross, made a couple of great tackles.

yeah, Johnson was sh*t. more like our best player.

mayordenis

Boggles where you gone?

A simple hands up and admiting you were wrong would would reflect well on you.

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

Boggles where you gone?

A simple hands up and admiting you were wrong would would reflect well on you.

you're pretty selective on what questions/posts you answer yourself.

so a little bit less of the hypocrisy

Boggles

CHD wrote: »

He owned the right side of the pitch playing RB. Was very dangerous going forward and solid at the back. That's hardly a poor performance. You seem to be the only one who thinks his performance was poor. What does that tell you?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Very very very harsh Boggles. The man Johnson was on ran center as the ball was kicked, Johnson obviously followed him. Meanwhile, NGog's man peeled off to the back post, Ngog followed, but ineffectively. After Johnson saw the flight of the ball he tried to get over to that area again, but was wrong footed having followed his man. But NGog should have done much much better in tracking his man to the back post. Now, what Johnson possibly did wrong in this case was to carry out man marking instead of Zonal, possibly under instruction, possibly under instinct (not been doing zonal himself for long), but either way to say he had a poor game entirely due to this one incident, which had a number of factors involved rather then just being "his fault", is quite a bit over the top.

Incidentally, watch this and you'll see many more good things he did
http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-v-birmingham-city-27282

SlickRic wrote: »

ha, i've just watched that highlights package.

johnson was at fault for neither goal (vaguely arguable the first), made the first one, made what should have been another one for Stevie, got to the bye-line on at least 4 or 5 occasions, put in cross after cross, made a couple of great tackles.

yeah, Johnson was sh*t. more like our best player.

mayordenis wrote: »

Boggles where you gone?

A simple hands up and admiting you were wrong would would reflect well on you.

I think we can all safely say Johnson had little to do but attack the other night. He had a free roll. no questions.

As I already acknowledged he had 1 or 2 decent runs in the first half and managed to muster 1 decent cross where Gerrard should have scored.

He was largely at fault for the 1st goal and went to sleep for Birminghams only real chance late in the second half.

Lads he cost 17 million pounds, he is a defender, granted he didn't have to do much of that the other night, maybe 3 times he was called upon, twice he was caught out.

Sensational??? If thats what pleases ye.

I guess we just have different standards.

noodler

ntlbell wrote: »

you're pretty selective on what questions/posts you answer yourself.

so a little bit less of the hypocrisy

Awwwww thats so cute but Boggles can fight his own battles.

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

you're pretty selective on what questions/posts you answer yourself.

so a little bit less of the hypocrisy

What are you on about? I'm pretty much up front on trying to answer any question posed and on several occassions I've completed admitted being wrong on this forum.

noodler

Boggles wrote: »

I think we can all safely say Johnson had little to do but attack the other night. He had a free roll. no questions.

As I already acknowledged he had 1 or 2 decent runs in the first half and managed to muster 1 decent cross where Gerrard should have scored.

He was largely at fault for the 1st goal and went to sleep for Birminghams only real chance late in the second half.

Lads he cost 17 million pounds, he is a defender, granted he didn't have to do much of that the other night, maybe 3 times he was called upon, twice he was caught out.

Sensational??? If thats what pleases ye.

I guess we just have different standards.

Its not that, you just like a rise.

Johnson was poor though, eh? Hilarious stuff. Keep it up

Mr Alan

Boggles, when was Johnson caught out? once i remember him nearly being caught, but he made an amazing tackle, won posession back & launched another attack.

love the "he is lacking defensively" argument, he has made one bad mistake defensively since he has been at Liverpool. him being suspect defensively is a myth. Utd fans predicted his demise when we played you, but as usual, he didnt put a foot wrong. didnt put a foot wrong against Chelsea & has been brilliant in virtually every appearance for us this year. 17m, absolute bargain tbh.

anyone who watched that game the other night & didn't think Johnson was brilliant is obviously a few sandwichs short of a picnic.

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

What are you on about? I'm pretty much up front on trying to answer any question posed and on several occassions I've completed admitted being wrong on this forum.

and many times when put in a corner you ignored/avoided answering posts.

so to sit there and demand a response from someone is pretty small time.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, when was Johnson caught out? once i remember him nearly being caught, but he made an amazing tackle, won posession back & launched another attack.

love the "he is lacking defensively" argument, he has made one bad mistake defensively since he has been at Liverpool. him being suspect defensively is a myth. Utd fans predicted his demise when we played you, but as usual, he didnt put a foot wrong. didnt put a foot wrong against Chelsea & has been brilliant in virtually every appearance for us this year. 17m, absolute bargain tbh.

anyone who watched that game the other night & didn't think Johnson was brilliant is obviously a few sandwichs short of a picnic.

In keeping with my both sides of the fence stance, I do think Johnson has a bit to learn defensively. Just not based on Monday night.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

anyone who watched that game the other night & didn't think Johnson was brilliant is obviously a few sandwichs short of a picnic.

Or not a Liverpool supporter.

He was at fault for the first goal.

Bowyers run late on he went to sleep.

2 defense lapses out of maybe 3 times he was called upon.

And if you remember correctly Al, at the start of the season I was raving about Johnson.

He has been poor since and he was IMO poor the other night for 17 million defender given a free role with very little defending to actually do.

But fill boots, you think he's brilliant.

ntlbell

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, when was Johnson caught out? once i remember him nearly being caught, but he made an amazing tackle, won posession back & launched another attack.

love the "he is lacking defensively" argument, he has made one bad mistake defensively since he has been at Liverpool. him being suspect defensively is a myth. Utd fans predicted his demise when we played you, but as usual, he didnt put a foot wrong.

anyone who watched that game the other night & didn't think Johnson was brilliant is obviously a few sandwichs short of a picnic.

alan come off it he has made plenty of mistakes (possibly no more than many other full backs) but to sit there and claim he hasn't made mistakes is just bizzare

plus carra has got him out of a few spots.

he's done ok but no more than that.

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

and many times when put in a corner you ignored/avoided answering posts.

so to sit there and demand a response from someone is pretty small time.

If you could point out where I have done that it would be super, it's really not something I do.

I even post reponses like "I don't know" if I don't have an answer, anyway take it to PM if you want to continue your little tirade.

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

He was at fault for the first goal.

He wasn't, we've already discussed this.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Or not a Liverpool supporter.

or every non Liverpool fan involved in this conversation who said he was brilliant?

i'll leave you to it boggles, to say he has been poor since moving to Liverpool is undoubtadly a wind up or you genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, in which case i'm disappointed.

Chucky the tree

Boggles wrote: »

Or not a Liverpool supporter.

He was at fault for the first goal.

Bowyers run late on he went to sleep.

2 defense lapses out of maybe 3 times he was called upon.

And if you remember correctly Al, at the start of the season I was raving about Johnson.

He has been poor since and he was IMO poor the other night for 17 million defender given a free role with very little defending to actually do.

But fill boots, you think he's brilliant.

Poor since we signed him? :pac: You're a genius Boggles. :pac::pac:

Boggles

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Poor since we signed him? :pac: You're a genius Boggles. :pac::pac:

No I'll think you'll find I have praised him every match he has played well in. Even against Villa, thought he was Liverpools best player.

You will have to try harder.

SlickRic

boggles, he wasn't poor. which is what you argued.

sensational would be overdoing it.

but he was definitely our best attacking player, and put in a couple of great tackles.

not poor. not even close. not even in the same area code.

granted, some people went OTT with arguments like sensational (whoever said it), but he played excellently. and at the end of the day, to call him poor on monday, just makes no sense.

unless you've just got the anti-liverpool specs on again.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

boggles, he wasn't poor. which is what you argued.

sensational would be overdoing it.

but he was definitely our best attacking player, and put in a couple of great tackles.

not poor. not even close. not even in the same area code.

granted, some people went OTT with arguments like sensational (whoever said it), but he played excellently. and at the end of the day, to call him poor on monday, just makes no sense.

unless you've just got the anti-liverpool specs on again.

You have your own opinion.

I pointed out above exactly what he did that was good and exactly what he did that was bad.

If you think that equates to a good night from an unmarked unchallenged attacking defender, than so be it.

I pointed out plenty times in matches where Johnson has been excellent, the other night I thought he was poor.

To say I have agenda against him is pretty stupid, considering I have praised him alot more times than I have called him poor.

SlickRic

ok i might give you the bowyer mistake, which lead to f***all by the way, but upon looking again, that first one really wasn't his fault. he tried to cover for n'gog who lost his man.

if you call that poor so be it. that's your prerogative.

but i don't think you will find a wing back in world football who doesn't make a mistake in a game. especially attacking ones. centre backs or DMs are generally there to cover.

you find very very few who offer what johnson offered monday.

fair play if you've raved about Johnson so far, but that doesn't stop me thinking your opinion on this is wrong, and that it might have something to do with an anti-liverpool agenda.

but again, it's all your opinion. you're obviously entitled to it.

but i can't wait for the next time evra makes a mistake in a game and i get to justifiably call him poor.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

ok i might give you the bowyer mistake, which lead to f***all by the way, but upon looking again, that first one really wasn't his fault. he tried to cover for n'gog who lost his man.

if you call that poor so be it. that's your prerogative.

but i don't think you will find a wing back in world football who doesn't make a mistake in a game. especially attacking ones. centre backs or DMs are generally there to cover.

you find very very few who offer what johnson offered monday.

fair play if you've raved about Johnson so far, but that doesn't stop me thinking your opinion on this is wrong, and that it might have something to do with an anti-liverpool agenda.

but again, it's all your opinion. you're obviously entitled to it.

but i can't wait for the next time evra makes a mistake in a game and i get to justifiably call him poor.

See that might hold a bit more water if during last summer I wasn't one of the ones recommending Johnson as a Liverpool player.

I am actually on record as saying.

Johnson - Barry - 10-12 million pound backup striker. As my 3 recommended Liverpool signings during the summer. I also said if ye got those 3 and Rafa sold the dross he has piled up, ye would seriously challenge for the title.

Unfortunately for the Scouse, Johnson Cost 17 million, Rafa burnt his bridges with Barry, hung onto the dross and there was nothing in the coffers for the striker.

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

You have your own opinion.

I pointed out above exactly what he did that was good and exactly what he did that was bad.

If you think that equates to a good night from an unmarked unchallenged attacking defender, than so be it.

I pointed out plenty times in matches where Johnson has been excellent, the other night I thought he was poor.

To say I have agenda against him is pretty stupid, considering I have praised him alot more times than I have called him poor.

Boggles, as I pointed out above, It was NGog's man who won the header, not Johnsons, the only reason johnson was back there for the incident was because he doubled back. Had he continued tracking his man in the center, you wouldn't even be mentioning his name as it would have been NGogs sole problem, so because he actually tried to get over to cover someone elses man, you're slating him.


Honestly, of all the arguments that have been on the forum over the past while, this one seems exceptionally pointless.

Boggles

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Boggles, as I pointed out above, It was NGog's man who won the header, not Johnsons, the only reason johnson was back there for the incident was because he doubled back. Had he continued tracking his man in the center, you wouldn't even be mentioning his name as it would have been NGogs sole problem, so because he actually tried to get over to cover someone elses man, you're slating him.

He still got to the challenge but put in a feable effort, If he was a full back in the team I support I would be disappointed too.

blackbetty69

Boggles wrote: »

He still got to the challenge but put in a feable effort, If he was a full back in the team I support I would be disappointed too.

so your saying you would be disappointed by a full back who adds an extra dimension down the wings, and puts in a hell of a lota crosses for a defender?? every1 makes mistakes.. i would take him over gary neville( sniggers) or ivanovic anyday

CHD

blackbetty69 wrote: »

so your saying you would be disappointed by a full back who adds an extra dimension down the wings, and puts in a hell of a lota crosses for a defender?? every1 makes mistakes.. i would take him over gary neville( sniggers) or ivanovic anyday

Ivanovic is a centre half!

Mr Alan

he will be regarded as the best RB in the league by all but the most bitter by the end of the season

Paul Tergat

blackbetty69 wrote: »

i would take him over gary neville( sniggers) or ivanovic anyday

I think this is Pools problem. Neville is arguably our 4th choice RB, behind JOS/Brown and maybe Rafael. Comparing him with Johnson is daft. We have strength in that area and Pool dont. Simple.

blackbetty69

CHD wrote: »

Ivanovic is a centre half!

ya well he played rb against united... ok then, i would take johnson over bosingwa anyday. happy now?

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

He still got to the challenge but put in a feable effort, If he was a full back in the team I support I would be disappointed too.

He got to the challenge while clearly off balance and backpedaling. Again, that man was not his responsibility, the fact that he even got there is a good thing rather then something to give out about. And there were 2 more touches from players after the one he tried to get back for so to go as far as saying the goal was his fault is just wrong.

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

See that might hold a bit more water if during last summer I wasn't one of the ones recommending Johnson as a Liverpool player.

I am actually on record as saying.

Johnson - Barry - 10-12 million pound backup striker. As my 3 recommended Liverpool signings during the summer. I also said if ye got those 3 and Rafa sold the dross he has piled up, ye would seriously challenge for the title.

Unfortunately for the Scouse, Johnson Cost 17 million, Rafa burnt his bridges with Barry, hung onto the dross and there was nothing in the coffers for the striker.

where did i say you didn't think Johnson had been a good signing?

or that you didn't say he would be a good signing?

i just thought you might have an anti-liverpool agenda, which is the only way a football fan like yourself could ever justify him being poor on Monday.

so i don't know where you're coming from with 'your argument might hold some water if...' since my only argument is that nobody could justifiably say johnson had been poor on Monday. just because you've correctly said he's been good thus far for Liverpool, does not mean you're automatically right everytime you talk about him, and can just call him poor for any given game without being challenged on it.

blackbetty69

p_larkin99 wrote: »

I think this is Pools problem. Neville is arguably our 4th choice RB, behind JOS/Brown and maybe Rafael. Comparing him with Johnson is daft. We have strength in that area and Pool dont. Simple.

are jos and brown not centre halfs? they started out that way anyway i think, correct me if im wrong.. i know jos has been playing there of late, but gary neville and rafael are pure bred right backs.. we do have a problem if johnson gets seriously injured tho.. carra slottin in there just doesnt work

Paul Tergat

blackbetty69 wrote: »

are jos and brown not centre halfs? they started out that way anyway i think, correct me if im wrong.. i know jos has been playing there of late, but gary neville and rafael are pure bred right backs.. we do have a problem if johnson gets seriously injured tho.. carra slottin in there just doesnt work

well JOS certainly is not anymore. It could I guess be argued that Wes is a centre half but I think if say JOS was to get a long term injury Brown would be the RB week in week out.

The fact is though that Neville is way down the pecking order.

Chucky the tree

Boggles wrote: »

No I'll think you'll find I have praised him every match he has played well in. Even against Villa, thought he was Liverpools best player.

You will have to try harder.

You said he you were raving about him at the start of the season but he's been poor since. So you just think this is a slight dip and he'll come out of it?

CHD

blackbetty69 wrote: »

ya well he played rb against united... ok then, i would take johnson over bosingwa anyday. happy now?

No, I want you as a PL manager.

Mr Alan

list the games Johnson has been poor in when you get a chance Boggles. cheers.

Chucky the tree

Boggles wrote: »

He still got to the challenge but put in a feable effort, If he was a full back in the team I support I would be disappointed too.

How was it a feeble effort?

jesus_thats_gre

CHD wrote: »

Ivanovic is a centre half!

Does quite well at right back too in fairness to him. Certainly had Riera in his pocket the two or three times they faced each other in the past year.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

w

so i don't know where you're coming from with 'your argument might hold some water if...' since my only argument is that nobody could justifiably say johnson had been poor on Monday. just because you've correctly said he's been good thus far for Liverpool, does not mean you're automatically right everytime you talk about him, and can just call him poor for any given game without being challenged on it.

I have already listed why I thought he was poor the other night.

If we was so good what exactly in your opinion did he do?

Mr Alan

put the ball in that we scored from.
constantly threatened.
defended well (despite you trying to claim otherwise)
set up 3 or 4 great goalscoring chances.

jesus_thats_gre

Boggles wrote: »

I have already listed why I thought he was poor the other night.

If we was so good what exactly in your opinion did he do?

You are being absurd, Boggles.

Johnson was top class going forward in that match. Considering Liverpool had 75% of the possession, that is really the only part of his game that you can disect.