Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Jazzy

The Muppet wrote: »

The squads not good enough and there's only one man responsible for that, Rafa. His poor signings has the club in the position it is,

his "poor signings" also got them to 2nd last season. footballs amazing isnt it. you can literally forget things just to suit that exact moment at that exact time

kippy

Jazzy wrote: »

his "poor signings" also got them to 2nd last season. footballs amazing isnt it. you can literally forget things just to suit that exact moment at that exact time

Indeed, that works both ways however.

kippy

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

What I want to know is when the majority of folk out there realise the state that the club is in and stop blaming it on the bloody manager.

Yeah but the manager does have SOME culpability, and when other people realise that we'll have a more balanced view from everyone.
Rafa is getting paid A LOT of money to manage Liverpool F.C.
The first half of last season was marred by the Robbie Keane disaster (which some people attribute to Parry, fair enough) the first half of this season is marred by the Aqualani disaster (which is all Rafa).

Frankly, I dont think Rafa himself is as "interested" as he was at this stage last season. The big money contract/hancuffs are in the bag and he is happy. Harsh but I believe fair.

Son Of A Vidic

They've been punching above their weight and now they are just dropping back to reality. What will it take for them to change manager? God knows!

Jazzy

kippy wrote: »

Frankly, I dont think Rafa himself is as "interested" as he was at this stage last season. The big money contract/hancuffs are in the bag and he is happy. Harsh but I believe fair.

totally wrong. i dont think you get how these top line competitive managers work. "BIG MONEY CONTRACT HANDCUFFS YEAH" that must mean you are correct/fair... i mean you used the big money buzzword, everyone knows that when you get big money you rest on your laurels and become uninterested... :rolleyes:

K-9

kippy wrote: »

Yeah but the manager does have SOME culpability, and when other people realise that we'll have a more balanced view from everyone.
Rafa is getting paid A LOT of money to manage Liverpool F.C.
The first half of last season was marred by the Robbie Keane disaster (which some people attribute to Parry, fair enough) the first half of this season is marred by the Aqualani disaster (which is all Rafa).

Frankly, I dont think Rafa himself is as "interested" as he was at this stage last season. The big money contract/hancuffs are in the bag and he is happy. Harsh but I believe fair.

Aqualini was originally supposed to be September, maybe October. Hardly Rafas fault, more the medical side, if that could have been foreseen.

He has has poor signings and some good ones. Benayoun, Arbeloa, Skyrtel, Agger, Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Alonso and Johnson looks good. His bad signings except Keane, are usually cheap buys, barring Babel and Dossena.

On our level, we probably are 3rd/4th, the way it has been for the last decade.

On us being lucky last year. Sure United where lucky the last couple of years?

Headshot

K-9 wrote: »

Aqualini was originally supposed to be September, maybe October. Hardly Rafas fault, more the medical side, if that could have been foreseen.

kinda is I think

liverpool would have done a very detail medical of Aqualini before they signed him and rafa know his injury history with Roma

rafa has full responsibility of transfers now so in essence it is his fault

K-9

Headshot wrote: »

kinda is I think

liverpool would have done a very detail medical of Aqualini before they signed him and rafa know his injury history with Roma

rafa has full responsibility of transfers now so in essence it is his fault

So Alex should have foreseen Carrick?

Headshot

K-9 wrote: »

So Alex should have foreseen Carrick?

wrong one

SlickRic

aquilani's lack of action is ultimately down to rafa.

whether his people didn't inform him properly.

or his people didn't do the medical thoroughly enough.

or whatever.

if it's the medical staff's fault, as boss, rafa unfortunately has to take a bit of responsibility.

he still shouldn't be sacked.

and to those new people who are wondering what it will take for rafa to be sacked. try a bit of patience and see what the rest of the season brings.

it is genuinely 95% utd fans, whether it's on here or the friends i speak to, who think he should be sacked. 95% of fans of every other team genuinely can't believe we'd even consider it.

i think it's to do with how spoilt utd fans have been with success. you're priviliged enough to be able to look at the challengers and reckon anyone is sackable if they don't reach your standard every year; a success which has been built over a very long period, on a lot of money, on the back of the greatest manager ever.

i mean we had a similar thread for Wenger there not long ago.

i can't wait for the day Fergie retires and i can recommend each of his successors be sacked as they fail to follow in the man's footsteps.

mike65

Carrick might as well be injured.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Funnier how when the 5th most expensive team in the league, with the fifth highest wage bill is hovering around.....em fifth. its surprising.

This argument always gets me. Surely all you've said there is that Rafa is an average manager, who is unable to do better than the finances allow him. Wenger is in 3rd, with probably the 15th-16th most expensive team. Fergie is in 2nd, with probably the 4th most expensive team in the league.

I think theres no direct correlation and every single situation is different, but that stuff and stats are just silly.

kippy

Jazzy wrote: »

totally wrong. i dont think you get how these top line competitive managers work. "BIG MONEY CONTRACT HANDCUFFS YEAH" that must mean you are correct/fair... i mean you used the big money buzzword, everyone knows that when you get big money you rest on your laurels and become uninterested... :rolleyes:

Nice rolleyes by the way.
I get how some of them work.
Think about it for a while. Rafa hasnt come out with any fachts, or said anything at all negative about the owners since he got that contract. He hasnt been trying to get the fans on his side.
He, in my opinion, has shown absolutely NO battling qualities at all this season.

In relation to aqualani, of course it is rafas fault. Who has been keeping him on the bench for the last month - the medical staff?

This season so far has been one massive regression for the LFC, one which they cant really afford, I reckon fans are devastated so far and genuinely worried about what the remainder of the season holds.

Boggles

mike65 wrote: »

Carrick might as well be injured.

Don't know about that, can't imagine winning the league without him there now.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

This argument always gets me. Surely all you've said there is that Rafa is an average manager, who is unable to do better than the finances allow him. Wenger is in 3rd, with probably the 15th-16th most expensive team. Fergie is in 2nd, with probably the 4th most expensive team in the league.

I think theres no direct correlation and every single situation is different, but that stuff and stats are just silly.

It’s far from silly and there is a definite correlation.
Chelsea and United have dominated the league over the last 5 years with both the most expensive squads and the largest wage bills. City may have overtaken on both, I’m not sure, but they’re obviously still overhauling things.
Wenger is a genius and has worked wonders with what he’s got, normal rules don’t apply for him.

Pighead

whatawaster wrote: »

It’s far from silly and there is a definite correlation.
Chelsea and United have dominated the league over the last 5 years with both the most expensive squads and the largest wage bills. City may have overtaken on both, I’m not sure, but they’re obviously still overhauling things.
Wenger is a genius and has worked wonders with what he’s got, normal rules don’t apply for him.

You make it sound like it's impossible for anyone bar the two richest teams to compete in any given league. A very good manager can overcome financial disadvantages. Look at Wolfsburg in Germany last season or Bordeaux in France. Both spent pretty modest amounts compared to the leagues biggest spenders yet still managed to win their respective leagues.

MementoMori

PHB wrote: »

This argument always gets me. Surely all you've said there is that Rafa is an average manager, who is unable to do better than the finances allow him. Wenger is in 3rd, with probably the 15th-16th most expensive team. Fergie is in 2nd, with probably the 4th most expensive team in the league.

I think theres no direct correlation and every single situation is different, but that stuff and stats are just silly.

Arsenal's current squad cost the bones of £100m to assemble which while it is very much a lot less than Chelsea and Utd is still a fair bit more than a whole host of other clubs in the league.

Arsenal's squad is the seventh most expensive in the league and nowhere near the 15th/16th most expensive. There's also the fact that it was only this summer that City and Villa would have jumped ahead of them. Throw in the fact that Arsenal also spend a pretty penny and are one of the top teams in terms of wages paid.

Utd's squad is the still the second most expensive and still costs more than City/Spurs.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying in the bolded sentence but you can't seriously be coming out and saying there is no correlation between the amount of money spent (both on players and wages) and level of achievement. ars.

I'd be pretty sure that if you listed the historic cost of each squad assembled versus the position they achieved in the league you would see an extremely strong correlation especially in the last 15-20 ye

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Spiritoftheseventies

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

yes not a good day for us. But tell us something we dont already know

NukaCola

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What?
You are ****ing joking?
3 wins...
out of 15...
You mean there was 12 games in the last 15 we haven't won..
As a Liverpool supporter i am shocked....

monkey9

This is the worst thread. Ever!

Glico Man

Just out of interest, when did we last win?

I honestly can't even remember

I'm thinking it was the Everton game?

NukaCola

monkey9 wrote: »

This is the worst thread. Ever!

What?
You mean in all the threads in all of boards, this is the worst?
You mean in all the subjects discussed in all the threads created this is bottom of the pile?

As a liverpool fan i am shocked

Headshot

monkey9 wrote: »

This is the worst thread. Ever!

The soccer forum awards will tell other wise

magma69

I think Rafa should go at the end of the season regardless if we make the top 4 (which I think we will). He has done a good job with us throughout the seasons with a limited squad/budget but he has made some huge errors too. I think it's time to get someone new next summer. The club has gone stale and the owners are a big part in that but Rafa is too. He has taken this club as far as he can I think and it's time for a new manager with a different approach and philosophy.

Spiritoftheseventies

DId we beat that Turkish crowd after that. Either way dont think we have won three games in a row yet

Warper

Are Liverpool fans finally coming round to the idea that Liverpool, with Benitez in charge, are going nowhere fast?? We told ye that ages ago.

Quandary

any chance of a poll like the Arsene W thread?

bUILDERtHEbOB

Warper wrote: »

Are Liverpool fans finally coming round to the idea that Liverpool, with Benitez in charge, are going nowhere fast?? We told ye that ages ago.

I think it's something to do with supporting the manager and players through thick and thin.

The Muppet

Warper wrote: »

Are Liverpool fans finally coming round to the idea that Liverpool, with Benitez in charge, are going nowhere fast?? We told ye that ages ago.

I seriously doubt it. They'll probably beat Wigan mid week and it'll be on again.

Warper

The Muppet wrote: »

I seriously doubt it. They'll probably beat Wigan mid week and it'll be on again.

Actually youre right see post 1930?? Its great - I hope they keep Rafa on for another 10 years.

Bandit12

Warper wrote: »

Are Liverpool fans finally coming round to the idea that Liverpool, with Benitez in charge, are going nowhere fast?? We told ye that ages ago.

No. There is'nt another manager in the world i'd want at the helm. If he get's the investment in players (unlikely) we will push for the league for years to come. I can only imagine what state the club would be in right now if it was'nt for Rafa.

Fuhrer

K-9 wrote: »

So Alex should have foreseen Carrick?

You mean in the way that he has several options to fill in for him if hes injured?


Oh wait, hes already done that.

Mayo Exile

Rafa has been hinting at the financial situation at the club in the last couple of days. Until the issue with the owners and the associated debt is sorted Liverpool can forget about moving forward.

Warper

Bandit12 wrote: »

No. There is'nt another manager in the world i'd want at the helm. If he get's the investment in players (unlikely) we will push for the league for years to come. I can only imagine what state the club would be in right now if it was'nt for Rafa.

Unbelievable

Mr Alan

believe it warper.

are you an everton fan by the way?

Sully

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Rafa has been hinting at the financial situation at the club in the last couple of days. Until the issue with the owners and the associated debt is sorted Liverpool can forget about moving forward.

Still though, should have worked better with this current squad.

cson

Just a quick question;

Do Liverpool fans think the side Benitez currently has is on a par or better than the one he inherited from Houllier?

GO'S

goodbye rafa

Mr Alan

cson; far better. first team is in a different league. with the squad when fully fit better too.

Vanbis

Sully wrote: »

Still though, should have worked better with this current squad.

He should have invested in better players, i think he just bought players to plug the wholes and gaps which was wrong. Also he sold the likes of Crouch, Keane, Luis Garcia, Finnan.

Warper

Mr Alan wrote: »

believe it warper.

are you an everton fan by the way?

Yes, I am a totally unbiased Everton fan

Mr Alan

ha ha h finnan.

yea, he's gone onto wonderous things since leavng! :rolleyes:

Fuhrer

Warper wrote: »

Yes, I am a totally unbiased Everton fan

Only Liverpool fans are allowed to judge Rafa and his massive failings.

Mr Alan

Warper wrote: »

Yes, I am a totally unbiased Everton fan

question for you....

when David Moyes finished fourth, ahead of Liverpool. Then that summer had a higher net spend than Liverpool. and ended up finishing 11th the following season, did you think he should be sacked?

The Muppet

Fuhrer wrote: »

Only Liverpool fans are allowed to judge Rafa and his massive failings.

Some Liverpool fans appear to support Rafa more than the club.

Vanbis

Fuhrer wrote: »

Only Liverpool fans are allowed to judge Rafa and his massive failings.

What about all the ex players, managers of Liverpool FC? They are not exactly coming out and saying he's right man and should not be sacked but all rasied questions about his squad and signings.

therokerroar

People forget that it was with the majority of Houllier's players that he won the league with, that game was completly unreal and it will take a long, long time for a Champions League final like that to happen again considering Milan should have been 6 or 7 in front by half time.

Once he got his players in and yes, he had financial backing, he failed miserably. All Liverpool have to show for the Benitez's reign is Gerrard, who was already at the club, Torres and possibly Reina, which is an absolutley shocking position to be in 5 and a bit seasons later.

He's living off a completely unreal Champions League win which he won with the majority of his predeccessor's players, and it's time for him to be show the door.

Despite the fact it would cost a serious amount of money to show him the door, I'd go for the short term pain for long term success, if the man had any respect for Liverpool, he'd walk away without taking his compensation package.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

question for you....

when David Moyes finished fourth, ahead of Liverpool. Then that summer had a higher net spend than Liverpool. and ended up finishing 11th the following season, did you think he should be sacked?

That never happened.

Moyes spent less than Rafa in 05/06 despite selling Rooney for £27 million the season before.

Fuhrer

Vanbis wrote: »

What about all the ex players, managers of Liverpool FC? They are not exactly coming out and saying he's right man and should not be sacked but all rasied questions about his squad and signings.

They obviously arent Liverpool fans because they dont support Rafa unconditionaly.