Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Ush1

Osu wrote: »

Mascherano would merely be cover, lacing Sergio Busquets boots in that Barcelona team.

To pay 30M for a player who 4/5 years older than Busquets is madness.

You won't get 30M for Mascherano.

Barca just really want him but still can't see them paying 30 mill. Pep likes his spirit but you pay 30 mill for a player with unique talents, not Masherano.

kida

Archimedes wrote: »

Jesus christ. I know Liverpool are going through a tough time, but drugs are not the answer.

Benayoun £20 million
Kuyt £20 million
Mascherano £30 million
Reina £30 million

Please, do go on, because im sure you've broken the collective hole of this forum from laughter, and f*ck it, its miserable weather outside so we could do with some more. Just go back and read that again to completely grasp how utterly f*cking ludicrous it is.

well said - it brightened up my morning - not sure if Kuyt or Benayoun made me laugh more.

whatawaster

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Look what Martin O'Neill has had to deal with. He seems to be doing quite alright on a limited budget.
.

What limited budget would that be? Or do you, as I suspect, just believe what all O’Neill’s journalist friends write about him?

The Muppet wrote: »

Jesus AL your are heading to the £200 milion make with your valuations of a handful of Players yet the Sheik though the whole club was overpriced at £300 million, something doesn't add up and given the history I'd imagine it's your figures.:P

Assets – Liabilities = Value (approximately) of club.
Liabilities = very large indeed

The Muppet

Archimedes wrote: »

Jesus christ. I know Liverpool are going through a tough time, but drugs are not the answer.

Benayoun £20 million
Kuyt £20 million
Mascherano £30 million
Reina £30 million

Please, do go on, because im sure you've broken the collective hole of this forum from laughter, and f*ck it, its miserable weather outside so we could do with some more. Just go back and read that again to completely grasp how utterly f*cking ludicrous it is.

Thanks for that , I'm in tears of laughter here, just the tonic for a dreary monday morning.

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

What limited budget would that be? Or do you, as I suspect, just believe what all O’Neill’s journalist friends write about him?




Assets – Liabilities = Value (approximately) of club.
Liabilities = very large indeed

Assets = very large indeed using Als figures .

Do you believe Al's valuations are realistic too ?

Fuhrer

whatawaster wrote: »

What limited budget would that be? Or do you, as I suspect, just believe what all O’Neill’s journalist friends write about him?

Well then, would you as an obvious club insider please tell us about his real budget?

whatawaster

Fuhrer wrote: »

Well then, would you as an obvious club insider please tell us about his real budget?

Well I know he’s spent more in his 3 or 4 years as Villa manager as Rafa has in his 6 at Liverpool.

whatawaster

The Muppet wrote: »

Assets = very large indeed using Als figures .

Do you believe Al's valuations are realistic too ?

I don't agree with some of them, no, but his point stands. Our squad has risen a lot in value. I would value it at something like this:

Reina – 20m
Cavalieri – 4m
Johnson – 20m
Degen – 1m
Insua – 7m
Aurelio – 3m
Carragher – 2m
Skrtel – 10m
Agger – 13m
Kyriakos – 1m
Dossena – 4m
Mascherano – 30m
Aquilani – 17m
Lucas – 8m
Plessis – 1m
Gerrard – 25m
Kuyt – 13m (he’s been in horrible form this season, it would have been higher last year, even so, he’s still getting goals)
El Zhar – 1m
Benayoun – 15m
Babel – 7m
Riera – 10m
N’Gog – 3m
Voronin – 2m
Torres – 60m

Overall – 278 million

Fuhrer

A lot of people said Johnson was overvalued at 17million, how hes worth more?

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

Well I know he’s spent more in his 3 or 4 years as Villa manager as Rafa has in his 6 at Liverpool.

Not True, MON has spent £116 million (£85 m net) in his time at Villa, Rafa has spent £247 million (£113 m net).

Ush1

whatawaster wrote: »

I don't agree with some of them, no, but his point stands. Our squad has risen a lot in value. I would value it at something like this:

Reina – 20m
Cavalieri – 4m
Johnson – 20m
Degen – 1m
Insua – 7m
Aurelio – 3m
Carragher – 2m
Skrtel – 10m
Agger – 13m
Kyriakos – 1m
Dossena – 4m
Mascherano – 30m
Aquilani – 17m
Lucas – 8m
Plessis – 1m
Gerrard – 25m
Kuyt – 13m (he’s been in horrible form this season, it would have been higher last year, even so, he’s still getting goals)
El Zhar – 1m
Benayoun – 15m
Babel – 7m
Riera – 10m
N’Gog – 3m
Voronin – 2m
Torres – 60m

Overall – 278 million

Are you having a giraffe or what? You think you'd get 8m for Lucas? 60m for Torres???

Fuhrer

Ush1 wrote: »

Are you having a giraffe or what? You think you'd get 8m for Lucas? 60m for Torres???

Also, who would pay 13 million for an injury prone, not that good defender like Agger?


Or 10 million for Skrteretrtl?

Peyton Manning

whatawaster wrote: »

Reina – 20m
Cavalieri – 4m
Johnson – 20m
Degen – 1m
Insua – 7m
Aurelio – 3m
Carragher – 2m
Skrtel – 10m
Agger – 13m
Kyriakos – 1m
Dossena – 4m
Mascherano – 30m
Aquilani – 17m
Lucas – 8m
Plessis – 1m
Gerrard – 25m
Kuyt – 13m (he’s been in horrible form this season, it would have been higher last year, even so, he’s still getting goals)
El Zhar – 1m
Benayoun – 15m
Babel – 7m
Riera – 10m
N’Gog – 3m
Voronin – 2m
Torres – 60m

Overall – 278 million

F*ck this, Im becoming a Liverpool fan now. Get to float around, high as a kite all day posting what I can only assume is a post heavily influenced by crack without so much as a batted eyelid.

Seriously, sometimes you really do wish the recession hit the football world as bad as it did the business environment just so people would wise the f*ck up.

kippy

No one would pay 60 million for a player who is as susceptible to injury as Torres.
Some of the other valuations are laughable.
In the current market and at the current form, none of Liverpools defenders should fetch more than 5-8 million each.

Ush1

I thought United fans were dillusional about the quality of some of their players but my God!

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

I don't agree with some of them, no, but his point stands. Our squad has risen a lot in value. I would value it at something like this:

You Valuations are more realistic but some are still high. lets agreee to differ on those .

So you squad should increase in value the Club has invested £113 million (new money) on players since Rafa's arrival.

whatawaster

The Muppet wrote: »

Not True, MON has spent £116 million (£85 m net) in his time at Villa, Rafa has spent £247 million (£113 m net).

Rafa’s net spend is around 83million

Ush1 wrote: »

Are you having a giraffe or what? You think you'd get 8m for Lucas? 60m for Torres???

60m for Torres definitely. I don’t think any player is worth that, but on reputation alone he is probably up there with Kaka and behind only Ronaldo and Messi.

I think anyone who watched yesterdays game and didn’t conclude that Lucas is a very capable premier league midfielder is clueless. Absolutely clueless.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Also, who would pay 13 million for an injury prone, not that good defender like Agger?

Or 10 million for Skrteretrtl?

Because despite Skrtel’s poor form he is an excellent defender. Lescott cost double that for god sake.
Agger is injury prone but he’s an excellent player. Milan apparently were sniffing around him last year

Fuhrer

kippy wrote: »

No one would pay 60 million for a player who is as susceptible to injury as Torres.

More to do with Torress having to play on his own up front then being particualrly susceptible

Fuhrer

whatawaster wrote: »

Because despite Skrtel’s poor form he is an excellent defender. Lescott cost double that for god sake.
Agger is injury prone but he’s an excellent player. Milan apparently were sniffing around him last year

Just because City have more money then sense doesnt mean that all other players in the same position get an increase in value.


And there is a reason why they only sniffed around him, hes played on average about 11 games a year for liverpool. He might have some quality, I dont know ive never seen him play long enough to show that, but his injuries destroy his value.

Peyton Manning

whatawaster wrote: »

Agger is injury prone but he’s an excellent player. Milan apparently were sniffing around him last year

Is this the same Milan who earmarked Roque Junior and Phillipe Senderos as excellent defenders?

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

Rafa’s net spend is around 83million

£14 million for Cisse not included (he was signed and paid for in Rafas tenure) plus £6 million of Torress not included in that either. There £20 million of the difference straigh off.

whatawaster

Archimedes wrote: »

F*ck this, Im becoming a Liverpool fan now. Get to float around, high as a kite all day posting what I can only assume is a post heavily influenced by crack without so much as a batted eyelid.

Seriously, sometimes you really do wish the recession hit the football world as bad as it did the business environment just so people would wise the f*ck up.

Reina is easily worth 20m. He’s still young for a GK, if it wasn’t for the Casillas he’d be Spanish number 1. He hardly ever makes mistakes.

Cavalieri cost 3.5 million. I see no reason why we wouldn’t get at least that for him.

Johnson has been brilliant for us. I questioned his worth at 17m. No I and I think most Liverpool fans think that was money well spent. We weren’t the only club willing to pay that for him in the summer. Is it so hard for you to fathom that some clubs may now be willing to spend 3m for him now?

Insua is an Argentinian international left-back and first choice for a (used to be!) top European club. He’s young and will only get better. 7m is about right.

I’m not going to go through all the rest in detail, but Riera is a regular with the European Champion’s squad, we probably could have sold Voronin for more than 2m in the summer. Apparently Napoli will pay 4m for Dossena . . .

Glico Man

You all realise value is what they're worth to the club right??

If you take that into account then yes, they are worth that to Liverpool

And yes there are clubs willing to pay the prices

Bayern paid £25 million for an injury prone winger, why not £13 million for an injury prone defender?


And to Osu, I'm a massive Barca fan and have been for about 18 years, and if you think Mascherano would lace Busquets boots then there is something seriously wrong with your eyes.....

He is the worst player in the Barca squad at the moment and must have some great dirt on Pep to be able to get ahead of Toure Yaya

whatawaster

Archimedes wrote: »

Is this the same Milan who earmarked Roque Junior and Phillipe Senderos as excellent defenders?

It doesn’t matter; a player is worth what clubs will pay for them.

Fuhrer

whatawaster wrote: »

Cavalieri cost 3.5 million. I see no reason why we wouldn’t get at least that for him..

Because all hes done since joining is sit on the bench, how would that increase his value?

Ush1

whatawaster wrote: »

Rafa’s net spend is around 83million



60m for Torres definitely. I don’t think any player is worth that, but on reputation alone he is probably up there with Kaka and behind only Ronaldo and Messi.

I think anyone who watched yesterdays game and didn’t conclude that Lucas is a very capable premier league midfielder is clueless. Absolutely clueless.



Because despite Skrtel’s poor form he is an excellent defender. Lescott cost double that for god sake.
Agger is injury prone but he’s an excellent player. Milan apparently were sniffing around him last year

60 mill for Torres, almost twice what Benzema cost for a player 4/5 years older who is more prone to injury. And that's from a club that pays silly money.

There's plenty of "capable" midfielders, but I'd rather have Lee Cattermole in my side than Lucas, and he cost 6 mill(still over priced).

Fuhrer

whatawaster wrote: »

Insua is an Argentinian international

Yeah, along with the 456 other players Maradona called up and only got one game.

kippy

Fuhrer wrote: »

More to do with Torress having to play on his own up front then being particualrly susceptible

No to be honest.
He's just susceptible to injury.
Based on what I've read from other Liverpool fans most of his injuries appear after he gets back from work with the national team where he plays with a partner up front.

Agger really hasnt played enough football to give him a price tag such as what some people are saying.

Either way, this is again a pointless argument. What good is Liverpool having a more expensive squad than that which Rafa took over if after five years they find themselves out of the CL, and with a best hope this season of getting a top four place? While the squad itself MAY be more valuable on paper, that cheaper squad has won vastly more than the current more expensive one.

whatawaster

Ush1 wrote: »

60 mill for Torres, almost twice what Benzema cost for a player 4/5 years older who is more prone to injury. And that's from a club that pays silly money.

There's plenty of "capable" midfielders, but I'd rather have Lee Cattermole in my side than Lucas, and he cost 6 mill(still over priced).

You’re forgetting Benzema isn’t half the player Torres is. Not yet anyway. He’s also nowhere near as marketable, which does matter nowadays.
Good for you. I like Cattermole too and think he’s worth more than 6m. I’d love him as backup to Mascherano and Lucas as backup to Aquilani.

Villain

whatawaster wrote: »

Because despite Skrtel’s poor form he is an excellent defender. Lescott cost double that for god sake.

City paid wayyyyyy over the top for Lescott, comapre Skrtel to Dunne who Villa paid 5m for?? A player is only worth what a team is willing to pay and using Man City as an example is crazy.

Ush1

whatawaster wrote: »

You’re forgetting Benzema isn’t half the player Torres is. Not yet anyway. He’s also nowhere near as marketable, which does matter nowadays.
Good for you. I like Cattermole too and think he’s worth more than 6m. I’d love him as backup to Mascherano and Lucas as backup to Aquilani.

Good for you, I'd have Benz over Torres anyday. Real Madrid wouldn't spend so much on a player that isn't marketable.

If you think Cattermole is worth more than 6m then I'd have to question your valuations again.:pac:

Ush1

Villain wrote: »

City paid wayyyyyy over the top for Lescott, comapre Skrtel to Dunne who Villa paid 5m for?? A player is only worth what a team is willing to pay and using Man City as an example is crazy.

Plus Lescott is an England international which adds 100 million plus to his value.

whatawaster

Villain wrote: »

City paid wayyyyyy over the top for Lescott, comapre Skrtel to Dunne who Villa paid 5m for?? A player is only worth what a team is willing to pay and using Man City as an example is crazy.

Dunne is 30 and has no resale value. City also apparently desperately wanted rid.
Skrtel is 24 and probably has close to another decade at the top level. Not yet at his peak etc.

whatawaster

Ush1 wrote: »

Plus Lescott is an England international which adds 100 million plus to his value.

grand, i'll add that to Johnson and Gerrard's values then

Ush1

whatawaster wrote: »

grand, i'll add that to Johnson and Gerrard's values then

I thought you already had.:rolleyes:

Glico Man

Ush1 wrote: »

Good for you, I'd have Benz over Torres anyday. Real Madrid wouldn't spend so much on a player that isn't marketable.

Your probably the only one then.

You do realise that Real made a bid for Torres before going in for Benzema yeah?

A reported £70 million bid at that

Villain

They also made a reported 50m bid for Ashley Young, oh wait someone made that up and wrote its somewhere, I would never regard reported bids as FACTS

Ush1

aaronh007 wrote: »

Your probably the only one then.

You do realise that Real made a bid for Torres before going in for Benzema yeah?

A reported £70 million bid at that

The only one? I doubt that.

They made a 50 million bid for Villa who is more prolific and less injury prone than Torres. Who didn't Real bid for?

kippy

aaronh007 wrote: »

Your probably the only one then.

You do realise that Real made a bid for Torres before going in for Benzema yeah?

A reported £70 million bid at that

Real are the only team that would pay stupid money for a player.


Anyway, as I said, its all very irrelevant and just takes the focus of the real topic of this thread..

whatawaster

If Liverpool announced tomorrow that Torres was for sale to the highest bidder, then every big club in Europe would sit up and take notice.
I’d say City, Chelsea, United, Real Madrid, Inter, AC Milan, Bayern would all be possible bidders. He’d fetch crazy money

noodler

Osu wrote: »

Mascherano would merely be cover, lacing Sergio Busquets boots in that Barcelona team.

To pay 30M for a player who 4/5 years older than Busquets is madness.

You won't get 30M for Mascherano.

Then we simply wouldn't sell. I think Barca's interest shows they want him regardless of ho they currently have.

Ush1 wrote: »

Good for you, I'd have Benz over Torres anyday. Real Madrid wouldn't spend so much on a player that isn't marketable.

What? Are you having a laugh?

Ush1 wrote: »

The only one? I doubt that.

You are, you are the only one who would want Benzema to Torres.

Ush1

whatawaster wrote: »

If Liverpool announced tomorrow that Torres was for sale to the highest bidder, then every big club in Europe would sit up and take notice.
I’d say City, Chelsea, United, Real Madrid, Inter, AC Milan, Bayern would all be possible bidders. He’d fetch crazy money

United "apparently" offered 40 mill at one stage. I'd say that's the most he'd fetch.

Ush1

noodler wrote: »

Then we simply wouldn't sell. I think Barca's interest shows they want him regardless of ho they currently have.



What? Are you having a laugh?



You are, you are the only one who would want Benzema to Torres.

Haha, that's the fact as you said it in a thread dominated by Liverpool fans?:rolleyes:

Glico Man

kippy wrote: »

Real are the only team that would pay stupid money for a player.


Anyway, as I said, its all very irrelevant and just takes the focus of the real topic of this thread..

Which is what exactly? Chances for people to come and make snide, disparaging and derivative remarks about Liverpool and their fans?

Or discussing something that doesn't concern anyone but Liverpool fans?

CHD

Wow, stop posting the lot of you. You are really proving how clueless you are.

Ush1

aaronh007 wrote: »

Which is what exactly? Chances for people to come and make snide, disparaging and derivative remarks about Liverpool and their fans?

Or discussing something that doesn't concern anyone but Liverpool fans?

Umm, no, should Rafa and Liverpool part ways I believe.

Peyton Manning

CHD wrote: »

Wow, stop posting the lot of you. You are really proving how clueless you are.

Come on then, elaborate on what elements in here you find particularly foolish. Or would that spoil what you thought was a humorous little quip that might get some thanks for yourself and massage that little ego of yours?

kippy

aaronh007 wrote: »

Which is what exactly? Chances for people to come and make snide, disparaging and derivative remarks about Liverpool and their fans?

Or discussing something that doesn't concern anyone but Liverpool fans?

I thought the topic of the thread was fairly self explanatory:
Are Liverpool (and Rafa) done?

I would have thought Liverpool fans were fairly thick skinned, especially at this stage.
This "something" effects all soccer fans, whether they be Liverpool or otherwise.

CHD

Archimedes wrote: »

Come on then, elaborate on what elements in here you find particularly foolish. Or would that spoil what you thought was a humorous little quip that might get some thanks for yourself and massage that little ego of yours?

Ha, i won't get thanks in here, its the United fans who reply that get all the thanks from there fellow clueless fans.

The main foolish point in this thread is that Liverpool and Rafa are not done and this thread has gone around in circles so many times it is beyond a joke. Its just here for United fans to gloat at Liverpools current run of bad form.

Peyton Manning

CHD wrote: »

Ha, i won't get thanks in here, its the United fans who reply that get all the thanks from there fellow clueless fans.

The main foolish point in this thread is that Liverpool and Rafa are not done and this thread has gone around in circles so many times it is beyond a joke. Its just here for United fans to gloat at Liverpools current run of bad form.

So, you believe that Liverpool and Rafa are done then?