Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

This grasshopper thinks that being thankful for second is a loser's mentality and complete ostrich syndrome.

He also thinks that all talk of "progress" is complete lunacy considering the distinct possibilty of losing 4th place........for the first time in quite a while. Pool have been nailed on for a top 4 and aren't at the moment.

Thats not progress. Thats regress.

As an obvious anti-Raf , who would you replace him with?

Kirby

BastardPrince wrote: »

the day we finished second there were 18 premier league managers that would have strongly disagreed with you...

Burnley staying in the premiership would be an huge achievement. Would Liverpool barely hanging on to fourth be a huge achievement?? There are different expectations for different clubs.

So you think that Alex Ferguson and the United fans would be happy with second place last season? If Liverpool are as big a club as their fans protest they are, why do people think not beating United to the title against United's worst team in years is an achievement?

As I said, people can talk about progress....but at what point does this season stop being a "blip"? Halfway through the season and they are going backwards. Thats not progress.

Warper

mayordenis wrote: »

I don't see how it adds any pressure at all.

If anything it's saying something along the lines of "I guarantee 4th as I believe in the players and know they are good enough".

He's as bayview says reassuring the fans and at the same time backing the squad and backroom staff, and the club as a whole to come through this rough patch.

As the title says Haters Gonna Hate.

Take off your blinkers for a second - can Rafa do any wrong with you?

He not only put additional pressure on the team today but also on himself. Rafa is under serious pressure and its getting to him. Todays desperate comment highlights this.

K-9

Kirby wrote: »

Burnley staying in the premiership would be an huge achievement. Would Liverpool barely hanging on to fourth be a huge achievement?? There are different expectations for different clubs.

So you think that Alex Ferguson and the United fans would be happy with second place last season? If Liverpool are as big a club as their fans protest they are, why do people think not beating United to the title against United's worst team in years is an achievement?

As I said, people can talk about progress....but at what point does this season stop being a "blip"? Halfway through the season and they are going backwards. Thats not progress.

In your opinion it was the worst United team in years. Personally, I think it was one of the most boring United teams in years.

How many clean sheets was it in a row?

Warper wrote: »

Take off your blinkers for a second - can Rafa do any wrong with you?

He not only put additional pressure on the team today but also on himself. Rafa is under serious pressure and its getting to him. Todays desperate comment highlights this.

What should he have said?

Warper

K-9 wrote: »

In your opinion it was the worst United team in years. Personally, I think it was one of the most boring United teams in years.

How many clean sheets was it in a row?



What should he have said?

Btw I dont agree with it was one of the worst Utd team in years, as i said they won the PL, Carling Cup and got to the CL final which speaks for itself.

Rafa should not have said what he did given their current position. He is just creating pressure from all angles. The media will now latch on to this statement and will have for the rest of the year to throw at him (which they will). What if they dont make the Top 4? How can you ever put faith in his statements again?

He should have kept his composure stating that his squad is more than good enough to make the Top 4 as they will prove before over the forthcoming months. Would have had the same effect without the unnecessary pressure.

Kess73

Warper wrote: »

Btw I dont agree with it was one of the worst Utd team in years, as i said they won the PL, Carling Cup and got to the CL final which speaks for itself.

Rafa should not have said what he did given their current position. He is just creating pressure from all angles. The media will now latch on to this statement and will have for the rest of the year to throw at him (which they will). What if they dont make the Top 4? How can you ever put faith in his statements again?

He should have kept his composure stating that his squad is more than good enough to make the Top 4 as they will prove before over the forthcoming months. Would have had the same effect without the unnecessary pressure.

I think it makes things crystal clear. If fourth place or better is not achieved then Rafa is gone. Whether he has been told that by the owners or is just what he believes, is open for debate.

LuckyLloyd

THOSE WHO ARE CHAMPIONS ARE OKAY. EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS. DON'T YOU GET IT??

Warper

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

THOSE WHO ARE CHAMPIONS ARE OKAY. EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS. DON'T YOU GET IT??

I think an ostrich would be apt.

mayordenis

Warper wrote: »

I think an ostrich would be apt.

Cool said it like a dozen times but people actually do know there is a problem being supportive of the current team and management does not mean I can't see there are problems.

Now I know idiots (and I'm not calling you one) think those two veiwpoints are mutually exclusive, however they are not. I can see there is issues, but I still believe our current manager, backroom staff and players have the Quality to do better, I would imagine my position on this is similar to the other supportive supporters out there, I do not believe everything is perfect, my head is not in the sand.

Your post earlier aswell was stupid "can he do no wrong", of course he can do wrong, but for me there is nothing incorrect about saying something that is slightly forthright and even a little brash even if it's just to get a reaction our of the players, or to lead by example, if the players showed a similar level of belief in themselves we would most likely be doing far better right now.

Expecting your or any of the other group of holierthanthouonlypeoplewhocanseetheamazingtruth brigade to see that was my mistake.

K-9

Warper wrote: »

Btw I dont agree with it was one of the worst Utd team in years, as i said they won the PL, Carling Cup and got to the CL final which speaks for itself.

Rafa should not have said what he did given their current position. He is just creating pressure from all angles. The media will now latch on to this statement and will have for the rest of the year to throw at him (which they will). What if they dont make the Top 4? How can you ever put faith in his statements again?

He should have kept his composure stating that his squad is more than good enough to make the Top 4 as they will prove before over the forthcoming months. Would have had the same effect without the unnecessary pressure.

Hard to beat a team that puts that many clean sheets in a row, so it proves it was a good United team, just in a different way.

The media latch onto anything he says! Liverpool need to get the confidence back, need to make Anfield a fortress again and need to start playing with the confidence they had in the run in last year.

I like what he said! Nothing wishey washey about it.

Chardee MacDennis

Kirby wrote: »

So you think that Alex Ferguson and the United fans would be happy with second place last season? If Liverpool are as big a club as their fans protest they are, why do people think not beating United to the title against United's worst team in years is an achievement?

there is obviously no arguing with you, so i wont bother, united are clearly the best team to have ever played the game and everyone else should just give up now...

starbelgrade

BastardPrince wrote: »

united are clearly the best team to have ever played the game and everyone else should just give up now...

Some truth at last.

starbelgrade

bayviewclose wrote: »

Btw can we define what will have to happen for Liverpool to "be done" .

When you stick a skewer in & the juices run clear.

Warper

mayordenis wrote: »

Cool said it like a dozen times but people actually do know there is a problem being supportive of the current team and management does not mean I can't see there are problems.

Now I know idiots (and I'm not calling you one) think those two veiwpoints are mutually exclusive, however they are not. I can see there is issues, but I still believe our current manager, backroom staff and players have the Quality to do better, I would imagine my position on this is similar to the other supportive supporters out there, I do not believe everything is perfect, my head is not in the sand.

Your post earlier aswell was stupid "can he do no wrong", of course he can do wrong, but for me there is nothing incorrect about saying something that is slightly forthright and even a little brash even if it's just to get a reaction our of the players, or to lead by example, if the players showed a similar level of belief in themselves we would most likely be doing far better right now.

Expecting your or any of the other group of holierthanthouonlypeoplewhocanseetheamazingtruth brigade to see that was my mistake.

Good post - I see where youre coming from

Dub13

I have avoided posting in this thread up to now.

The simple fact of the matter is Rafa will be giving ontill the end of the season,if he does not get 4th he will not be Liverpool manager next season.If he does get 4th he will rightly still be manager.

For the record I still 100% support Rafa.

noodler

"Supporting the current manager" should not mean an inhibition to point out its faults.

I am certainly not anti-Rafa although I was slightly more last year but pointing put the unhelpful nature of his "we WILL finish fourth" quote is hardly evidence of being anti-Rafa.

Some poster above said that it reassures Liverpool fans - what utter dross! Liverpool fans are credited for their knowledge of the game and patience regarding managers. I find the argument that it was necessary to come out and heap pressure on the team with a fairly patronising statement for such fans to be ridiculous.

"Ohh we Liverpool fans are so knowledgable and patient but at the same time we need a manager to come out and gaurentee us something he can not be certain will happen".

monkey9

Warper wrote: »

Rafa should not have said what he did given their current position. He is just creating pressure from all angles. The media will now latch on to this statement and will have for the rest of the year to throw at him (which they will). What if they dont make the Top 4? How can you ever put faith in his statements again?

He should have kept his composure stating that his squad is more than good enough to make the Top 4 as they will prove before over the forthcoming months. Would have had the same effect without the unnecessary pressure.

Jesus, talk about nit-picking. So your new problem with him now is that he used the word 'guarantee'. That's what it's coming down to now, is it? That he should have 'kept his composure' and not used the word 'guarantee'.

The absolute tedium of all this is almost mind numbing. Look, the fact that he used the word 'guarantee' means f*ck all, quite frankly. It's a non issue. It doesn't make a bit of difference, it adds no extra pressure to finish fourth.

It's not like we'll finish fifth and people like yourself will go 'it's not the fact that they finished fifth that bothers me. It's the fact that Rafa guaranteed Liverpool would finish fourth. Why would he lie like that? Why Rafa, why?"

MUSEIST

Clubs should just stick with a manager thats clearly got a good cv (like benitez).
As a chelsea fan it always pisses me off that every time chelsea go through a rough patch the media start talking about the manager getting the sack.(i wish we would just stick with 1 ffs)
No club has ever achiieved anything witout sticking by their manager (look at united and arsenal and even milan with ancellotti), a manager needs time to build and in liverpools case they need to rebuild under benitez.

jank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It doesn't prove he has not, but the reality remains that he has avoided club football for the best part of a decade at this stage. The Chelsea stint demonstrates the close links he enjoys with Roman Abramovich. Liverpool can't afford him; and I just don't believe he goes to City where the aim would be toppling Roman's wagon. Finally, a number of interesting International jobs are sure to open up in a few months when the WC is concluded, and he will be the most prized asset on the market for a major nation's International side.

You make a valid point however it is within the relams of possibility that he will go to Man City or Liverpool (provided they get a cash injection).

So I dont get why my comments were so outlandish!

mayordenis

MUSEIST wrote: »

Clubs should just stick with a manager thats clearly got a good cv (like benitez).
As a chelsea fan it always pisses me off that every time chelsea go through a rough patch the media and talking about the manager getting the sack.
No club has ever achiieved anything witout sticking by their manager (look at united and arsenal and even milan with ancellotti), a manager needs time to build and in liverpools case they need to rebuild under benitez.

You're good people.

Kirby

BastardPrince wrote: »

there is obviously no arguing with you, so i wont bother, united are clearly the best team to have ever played the game and everyone else should just give up now...

:eek: Are your dense? Did you even read the post?

Kirby wrote: »

not beating United to the title against United's worst team in years .

I do not think United are "the best team to ever play the game". Far, far from it. I said the exact opposite! It's right there in my post......which you clearly didnt read.

K-9

Kirby wrote: »

:eek: Are your dense? Did you even read the post?



I do not think United are "the best team to ever play the game". Far, far from it. I said the exact opposite! It's right there in my post......which you clearly didnt read.

I remember the 80's. Liverpool where the standard everybody wanted to achieve and anything less than that was scoffed at by many a Pool fan.

United where substandard, even Arsenal for most of the decade, Everton had a couple of great years, average other than than that, West Ham finished second once I think, maybe even Chelsea.

It was great, winning everything, how easy it was. We could go out and spend a couple of million then, without a bother. Success breeding success.

Times have changed and roles have reversed, except you need £100's of millions now!

It's even harder now to break into the top 2, it was only a top 1 then.

kida

Personally I think pools current issues are down to 3 things

1) They have only really 1 way of playing and teams have copped onto this fact, playing the 2 holdings midfielders makes it easier for teams to play against you by and large you can ignore the 2 of them as a creative force. A lot of what Liverpool do is predicatable. Lately this has probably has been emphasised by Torres being out and Gerrard being out and not on form since he returned. Maybe when/if Aquailani becomes a regular this might change.

2) The defence has been below standard, collctively and as a whole at defending.

3) Because of the current form the teams invincibity status as one of the top teams has gone, teams are no longer afraid of Pool even at Anfield. Even if they go behind they can still sense that there is something possible for them in the match. They actually need to get 2 ahead to be comfortable and even then I sense that 1 goal back would cause mayhem.

LuckyLloyd

kida wrote: »

Personally I think pools current issues are down to 3 things

1) They have only really 1 way of playing and teams have copped onto this fact, playing the 2 holdings midfielders makes it easier for teams to play against you by and large you can ignore the 2 of them as a creative force. A lot of what Liverpool do is predicatable. Lately this has probably has been emphasised by Torres being out and Gerrard being out and not on form since he returned. Maybe when/if Aquailani becomes a regular this might change.

2) The defence has been below standard, collctively and as a whole at defending.

3) Because of the current form the teams invincibity status as one of the top teams has gone, teams are no longer afraid of Pool even at Anfield. Even if they go behind they can still sense that there is something possible for them in the match. They actually need to get 2 ahead to be comfortable and even then I sense that 1 goal back would cause mayhem.

Arsenal on Sunday: first team to go a a goal down and win a league match at Anfield in 6 years.

:rolleyes:

kida

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Arsenal on Sunday: first team to go a a goal down and win a league match at Anfield in 6 years.

:rolleyes:

what about draws :rolleyes:

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Arsenal on Sunday: first team to go a a goal down and win a league match at Anfield in 6 years.

:rolleyes:

Funnily enough that was against Arsenal and the same result.

Liverpool took the lead with Kewell, Arsenal equalised with an OG from Hyypia. Pires went on to win it in the second half.

Gotta love football.

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Funnily enough that was against Arsenal and the same result.

Liverpool took the lead with Kewell, Arsenal equalised with an OG from Hyypia. Pires went on to win it in the second half.

Gotta love football.

I just want Kewell back.

Spiritoftheseventies

mayordenis wrote: »

I just want Kewell back.

Good ice breaker there

The Muppet

Warper wrote: »

I think an ostrich would be apt.

Dickerty

mayordenis wrote: »

I just want Kewell back.

Yeh, and I miss white dog poo...

Spiritoftheseventies

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63520727&postcount=2530

Seeing that group of fans turned the owners away at the weekend the cartoon would seem to be a nonsense.

mayordenis

Dickerty wrote: »

Yeh, and I miss white dog poo...

I don't see why you brought me into your weird little scat world.

Fuhrer

bayviewclose wrote: »

Seeing that group of fans turned the owners away at the weekend the cartoon would seem to be a nonsense.

Well no,


He referring to Rafa being the problem not the owners.

Spiritoftheseventies

Fuhrer wrote: »

Well no,


He referring to Rafa being the problem not the owners.

Sorry must have misread that cartoon wrong so.

CR 7

Headshot

Can we not give them a break for awhile ?

That_Guy

Let the good times roll. :cool:

whatawaster

a blank post? bumping thread with nothing original to add? fantastic.
i'm so glad i'm going to be mostly away from the computer for a few days

Mitch Connor

KRAP!

mayordenis

Rafael Benitez,

Thank you for the European Cup in 2005 and Fernando Torres.

Please go now.

Thank you,
Denis

Mint Sauce

this just about sums things up, no europe, no league, mid table, totally dependent on 2 players, what was this contract that rafa fought so much for, he wanted more control over spending, transfers and the acadamy, am yet to see much from it

tbh, at this rate, really cant wait for LOI to start again, might get to see one of my teams playing decent football

:mad:

Hoki

Im beginning to think Benitez wants to get the sack so he can get his hands on the pot of gold

In fairness i do think we need to change something now, he doesnt have a plan B & we are playing a horribly boring negative brand of football.

Last year it worked spectacularly but obviously other teams have copped on to us & he doesnt seem to know what to do.

I dont think he can motivate the players anymore either as he doesnt seem to be getting anything out of them.

mirwillbeback

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Villa fan here, not looking at opening a Man U / Liverpool debate. But - whats your opinions on Liverpool's current situation? I personally believe 1) they ARE a 2 man team 2) they have overperformed the past 2 seasons 3 ) Rafa is too stubborn and is a key reason they are where they are now and 4) they will be 6th this year. So far already Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Sunderland have beat them, and the challengers to the big 4 already have points and arguably the more difficult games behind them. What dya reckon?

as thread starter, i am feeling pretty smug today. despite all the flak and sarcasm i got from the posters after i posted, it has all come to fruition. it amazes me that Rafa still has a job, but as a Villa fan i'm happy he is as there is NO chance of 4th on their recent performances. Absolute abysmal, and sad to see for a club of their stature.

If the lads i have the bet with want to pay me now that's ok with me

SlickRic

i'm happy to bite this time; despite my moaning previously.

my patience is on its last thread.

it wasn't that we lost today.

it was that, above all else, that this was another passionless, inflexible performance. and one of the worst examples of it that i've witnessed in quite a while.

teams know how to contain us, and when they do, we're screwed.

just pressurising the oppostion and hitting long direct balls from the back up front isn't good enough. in fact, it's pathetic. the players and management should be ashamed of themselves for that performance, and in fact most of them this season

the final nail in the coffin was Spearing coming on late today. with all due respect to the young man, that was a disgrace.

i have all the respect in the world for what rafa has done, but time has just about run out for me.

the team is castrated by the tactics, a fear of losing and a complete lack of confidence. all of which rafa seems unable to change.

i've always said 'end of the season' and the sensible side of me still holds to that, but my God, i can't take any more of this sh*te.

gimmick

Time to walk Rafa. Let a new man come in and build for next season. This one is a write off. UEFA qualification is looking a push at this stage :rolleyes:

jamsieboy86

Rafa has to go, there is something rotten in that dressing room that needs changing quick or we'll struggle to even make the Europa League for next season. I genuinely fear for Liverpool.

leninbenjamin

Hoki wrote: »

Im beginning to think Benitez wants to get the sack so he can get his hands on the pot of gold

He's no fool, he'll recognise his stock has fallen given he hasn't won anything in the last few years and it may take him time until he's offered suitable employment again. He'd be mad to walk tbh.

Warper

OMG - not a week ago Liverpool fans were on here defending Rafa tooth and nail. Anyone criticising Rafa were labelled "haters" as the thread title was so interestingly changed (probably by a Liverpool mod). Now, a few days later they want him gone:rolleyes:

Daysha

4 wins in 17 games in all competitions. 13 points off the top having played a game more. Could be as much as 8 points from 4th place by the end of the weekend. Out of the Champions League at the group stage and just got battered 2-0 against the leagues bottom club despite a near full strength team.

Gave Rafa the benefit of the doubt for much of the season so far, especially with the injuries and all that, but today's sealed it for me. The man just has to go.

CCCP^

I agree, Rafa has got to go and the sooner the better.