Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

Spiritoftheseventies

kida wrote: »

He will be gone when the fans turn, by the sounds of what is being said here some who were behind him have. Whats the word on the ground from the locals, are they starting to turn?

To be fair Liverpool fans are very patient. You may have to wait awhile longer

Pepe LeFrits

He's not really just a holding midfielder though. Besides, he's got 4 offensive players in front of him and two overlapping fullbacks.

At any rate, he's a good player.

Spiritoftheseventies

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He's not really just a holding midfielder though. Besides, he's got 4 offensive players in front of him and two overlapping fullbacks.

At any rate, he's a good player.

Rarely see him make long passes or put in crosses and his goal rate is very poor. From the old school of pool fans when he had players like Terry Mac, Souey, Ray Kennedy who could cross score and get in the tackles. Specially Souey.

kida

bayviewclose wrote: »

To be fair Liverpool fans are very patient. You may have to wait awhile longer

Dropped point from next 3 matches (Wolves,Villa and Spurs) would say different. Lets face it on current form you could expect Pool to get 3 max.

Spiritoftheseventies

kida wrote: »

Dropped point from next 3 matches (Wolves,Villa and Spurs) would say different. Lets face it on current form you could expect Pool to get 3 max.

United are not exactly setting the world on fire at the moment either

kida

bayviewclose wrote: »

United are not exactly setting the world on fire at the moment either

This is Rafa thread - What the fVck has that got to do with anything. Discuss the topic, not deflect.

Bandit12

kida wrote: »

Dropped point from next 3 matches (Wolves,Villa and Spurs) would say different. Lets face it on current form you could expect Pool to get 3 max.

On current form they we won't get 1 point from those three games tbh.

NukaCola

bayviewclose wrote: »

United are not exactly setting the world on fire at the moment either

TBF ManU are in a much better position....much much better...
Rafa guarenteed 4th spot. If he doesn't get it I think he will leave. If he does get it i'm not sure he's the man to win us the title. 4-5-1 ALL the ****ing time no matter who's availible, no plan B and poor signings last summer (37 mil for 2 players). The buck stops with him. No more excuses.....

leninbenjamin

bayviewclose wrote: »

Rarely see him make long passes or put in crosses and his goal rate is very poor. From the old school of pool fans when he had players like Terry Mac, Souey, Ray Kennedy who could cross score and get in the tackles. Specially Souey.

Seriously now, that's a ridiculous way to judge a player. Hollywood balls like those that make up 90% of Stevie G's game are not the only sign of a good player. And even less so with Lucas when you consider:

a) He's from the Brazilian school of football, they play with the ball at their feet. Generally south American playmakers player higher up the field and look for the short option.

b) He never was a goal scoring midfielder. For Gremio he averaged a goal every 10 games.

c) He's playing in a much much deeper role for Liverpool than he did in Brazil. Not only did he have to adapt to the more direct and physical English game, but he also has to learn to play in a different part of the field. And for those who give out about his lack of creativity, that's as much due to the fact he is now much further from the strikers than before.

Prufrock

I always thought Lucas is too "side to side" when he has the ball. It's the safe pass but doesn't trouble a defending team. Alonso could pick out a pass that would keep you moving forward.

~Rebel~

Prufrock wrote: »

I always thought Lucas is too "side to side" when he has the ball. It's the safe pass but doesn't trouble a defending team. Alonso could pick out a pass that would keep you moving forward.

Funnily enough its 'side to side' passing that gave Alonso the reputation of being the metronome of the team. And he's also started passing forward waaay more often of late - and not only this but he follows his pass. Is regularly found moving up around the opponents box supporting now.

I don't know why we're talking about him again. He's currently playing better football then Gerrard. Gerrard is much the better player, but at the moment he's guilty of a shocking amount of wasted ball in the final 3rd.

Wish Masch out, i'd really love to see how a Lucas and Aquilani midfield might do.

Kess73

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Funnily enough its 'side to side' passing that gave Alonso the reputation of being the metronome of the team. And he's also started passing forward waaay more often of late - and not only this but he follows his pass. Is regularly found moving up around the opponents box supporting now.

I don't know why we're talking about him again. He's currently playing better football then Gerrard. Gerrard is much the better player, but at the moment he's guilty of a shocking amount of wasted ball in the final 3rd.

Wish Masch out, i'd really love to see how a Lucas and Aquilani midfield might do.

Good post. Would agree with a few of your points.

I wonder how much of Xabi finding himself in more advanced positions now is down to not having to play in as defensive a mode as he did with us.

I also agree that Gerrard is a better player than Alonso but I would add that I think Alonso is a better midfielder than Gerrard as he brings far more balance and control to that role..

SlickRic

kida wrote: »

He will be gone when the fans turn, by the sounds of what is being said here some who were behind him have. Whats the word on the ground from the locals, are they starting to turn?

before the portsmouth game, the vast majority were still behind him.

kida

SlickRic wrote: »

before the portsmouth game, the vast majority were still behind him.

that was on the back of a win - whats the story now after probably your most abject performance under his reign?

whatawaster

kida wrote: »

that was on the back of a win - whats the story now after probably your most abject performance under his reign?

We’ve been worse than that and with 11 men too. Leave out the dramatics

kida

whatawaster wrote: »

We’ve been worse than that and with 11 men too. Leave out the dramatics

pray when?

whatawaster

kida wrote: »

pray when?

Boro twice last season

kida

whatawaster wrote: »

Boro twice last season

fair enough - it was as bad though - worst of this season

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

Boro twice last season

Why Middlesborough twice?

They beat us in one game and we beat them at Anfield earlier in the season.

Bounty Hunter

I really like Liverpool as a club, after Villa they are one of my favourites BUT some of the suggestions on next manager candidates I am finding really laughable. You say no to MON, Moyes etc even though they probably would not want the job should it be offered and think someone like Mourinho is attainable. Why the feck would he be interested in Liverpool, sure he might have an affinity for the club given its history and fan base etc but you know what he has more of an affinity for winning things imo and under the current owners I really dont think Liverpool is as much of an attractive proposition as you all seem to think it is.

VinylJunkie

Ive lost all faith in Benitez at this stage and if reports are true that Hiddink would have considered the City job in the new year id make a move for him. I know funds are tight, but if something is not done quickly Liverpool will not get 4th and funds will be even tighter next year.

VinylJunkie

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I really like Liverpool as a club, after Villa they are one of my favourites BUT some of the suggestions on next manager candidates I am finding really laughable. You say no to MON, Moyes etc even though they probably would not want the job should it be offered and think someone like Mourinho is attainable. Why the feck would he be interested in Liverpool, sure he might have an affinity for the club given its history and fan base etc but you know what he has more of an affinity for winning things imo and under the current owners I really dont think Liverpool is as much of an attractive proposition as you all seem to think it is.

Why would you think that? The next manager to win the league with Liverpool will become a legend to the people of Liverpool, who would not want that?

There is no denying that the clubs history has helped lure big name players to the club so why not managers?

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

Why Middlesborough twice?

They beat us in one game and we beat them at Anfield earlier in the season.

i was at the anfield game and it was one of the worst performances i've seen from a liverpool side. Same with the away game

Helix

VinylJunkie wrote: »

There is no denying that the clubs history has helped lure big name players to the club so why not managers?

coz i dont think any self respecting manager would want to work under the current owners

Bounty Hunter

VinylJunkie wrote: »

Why would you think that? The next manager to win the league with Liverpool will become a legend to the people of Liverpool, who would not want that?

There is no denying that the clubs history has helped lure big name players to the club so why not managers?

The next manager to win the league at Villa will also become a Legend to the people of Birmingham, doesent mean i expect it to happen soon. I really dont think the cream of the crop of managers will see Liverpool as all that an attractive situation under the American owners they have. As said I like Liverpool but their next manager if Rafa goes will probably be someone with a smaller reputation. Personally I think Hodgson would be a good candidate but not everyone rates him as highly as me (and im not sure if his contract situation has changed i.e has he signed up for Longer at fulham).

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

i was at the anfield game and it was one of the worst performances i've seen from a liverpool side. Same with the away game

Was at both games myself and can safely say I have seen a lot worse last season let alone some of the tripe this season.



Hull at Anfield was awful last season, as was Fulham at Anfield and Wigan away.

The rubbish this season trumps last season's poor games simply because there has been so much more of it this season. So much in fact that rubbish performances have become the norm so far this season.

LuckyLloyd

People who say the likes of Mourinho would have no interest in Liverpool are forgetting the rich tradition and history the club has to its name - and are somehow glossing over the consistently strong performances in European competition since 2000. Winning two trophies and reaching the Champions League Quarter Finals or better on four other occasions makes Liverpool one of the highest profile clubs in the world. Yes, the current owners and lack of financial flexibility sully the job, but name and tradition make up for so, so, much. You all need to remember that there is a relative paucity of top echelon jobs (either Real or Liverpool in terms of history; or a City or Chelsea in terms of financial might). Liverpool's finances drop it out of the very top tier, but there aren't 10 jobs out there that are automatically more desirable.

mike65

Of course Maureen would be interested, heck he was interested in 2004. Not that I'd be suggesting him myself as first choice given the finances. Hodgson would be a very sound manager even if some think him too "boring" (I'd take boring and good).

Bandit12

Why are people talking about "Rafa's replacement"?...The man is at the club for the long term.

Mitch Connor

Bandit12 wrote: »

Why are people talking about "Rafa's replacement"?...The man is at the club for the long term.

not according to rumours hitting the net today.

Bounty Hunter

Bandit12 wrote: »

Why are people talking about "Rafa's replacement"?...The man is at the club for the long term.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

not according to rumours hitting the net today.

gotta say this guy is starting to seem a lil less mental (only a lil).

Warper

mike65 wrote: »

Of course Maureen would be interested, heck he was interested in 2004. Not that I'd be suggesting him myself as first choice given the finances. Hodgson would be a very sound manager even if some think him too "boring" (I'd take boring and good).

Mourinho would only take it if he was given a substantial transfer kitty and according to Liverpool fans they dont have the cash. He is an excellent manager but is very defensive and "boring" in terms of how his teams play. Try watching Inter play the past season and a half - its like watching paint dry. Why not go after an attack minded manager and try to restore the traditional style of Liverpool's play.

opr

Warper wrote: »

He is an excellent manager but is very defensive and "boring" in terms of how his teams play. Try watching Inter play the past season and a half - its like watching paint dry. Why not go after an attack minded manager and try to restore the traditional style of Liverpool's play.

Amen! Sing it!

The thoughts of him taking over are soul destroying.

Opr

opr

While I feel Rafa should still be given till the end of the season I would like to educate myself a little about possible replacements.

I actually know fairly little about some of the names being bandied about so in an effort to be more informed, here is what I think but would like if people who know more could give their thoughts on this list of managers both positive and negative ? Also if you feel I have left out someone who you would like to see come in ?

The main thing I want from any manager hired is that they try and play progressive, attacking and expansive football.

Slaven Bilić

In management terms he's pretty unproven. Whenever I have seen him interviewed I always admire how he talks about the game and some of his critical analysis seemed very good. His team do seem to play the game in a progressive attacking manner. He comes across as a very intelligent man who understands the game. I think I could be persuaded a gamble on this man is a good thing.

Guus Hiddink

Guess he is pretty much the only manager that seems would be widely accepted as a good replacement if Rafa does leave. He has a wealth of experience but for some reason I wouldn't like to see him at Liverpool. Why do people feel he is best candidate ?

José Mourinho

Obviously the man I know most about in the list. He is one of the very best managers out their in terms of getting results but I would not like to see him get the job. I hate the way his teams play football.

Frank Rijkaard

Managed at the top level and with success. This has obviously been blighted by his latter days with Barcelona. He plays football in a progressive and attacking manner. Of all the managers I think he the one I would most want to see get the Job.

How big were his failings at Barcelona that seem to be putting most people off when you mention his name ?

Laurent Blanc

Someone I knew very little about until people starting shouting names as possible replacements. On paper he looks like a very good prospect and his success since becoming manager is very impressive. What kind of football do Bordeaux play? Would he leave if offered the job by Liverpool ?

Jürgen Klinsmann

He did well with the national team, but that was in a home World Cup and in truth their run to the Semi’s was an easy one and their only win against good opposition came against Argentina after a penalty shoot-out. Bayern Munich didn’t work out and I just don't think he is ready or good enough to be given the job.

Gianfranco Zola

If you have finished laughing ? A very intelligent real footballing man. I think he has assembled and is building a great team in which he promotes youth. I love how he has them playing and again he is true to the philosophy of attacking, progressive football even with limited resources. I think they have been very unlucky so far this season and they will not be involved in the relegation battle at the end of the season.

Opr

5starpool

I would not like to see Mourinho come to Liverpool from a personal point of view. I remember how disliked he was when he was at Chelsea, and I don't like his brand of team either, much like opr. I'd say he still remembers the 'F**k off Mourinho' chants, but I presume they were not present only at Anfield.

However, if it came to pass I would still obviously want him to succeed, and if he did then I'm sure I would change my preconceptions. However, it is an entiely moot point at the minute, and I would like to see Rafa been given the chance to compete for the next few seasons.

SlickRic

out of that list.

1. Blanc
2. Hiddink
3. Mourinho
4. Bilic

leninbenjamin

Klinsmann, Zola, Rijkaard are what i would term the 'Hollywood' signings. They might get Liverpool playing sexy football but I don't think they have the gumption to deal with the ugly side of management, such as player egos, board room fracas etc.

Hiddink i don't think wants to return to club management at the mo else he would have been a bit more receptive of some of the supposed offers that have gone his way.

Bilic needs some club experience, he's got the making of a good manager but he needs to learn the ins and outs of running a club on a daily basis before taking on a mess like Liverpool.

Mourinho is an arsehole.

Blanc is the best candidate on the list imo. Relatively young, success already, seems to be able to get the most out of 'fragile' personalities such as Gourcuff and generally has always come across as a very intelligent individual.

SlickRic

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Mourinho is an arsehole.

agreed.

but this alone means he shouldn't get the job?

leninbenjamin

SlickRic wrote: »

agreed.

but this alone means he shouldn't get the job?

I think his personality will mean he wont last long in a job. He'll come in and guarantee success, but it will be temporary and he'll leave not long after having padded out his CV, stuffing his pockets with the loot and left the next manager to play the peacemaker and clean up the sh*te. Mourinho doesn't plan for a clubs future, he plans for his own future. He's the managerial equivalent of David Beckham, he's always larger than the team.

Spiritoftheseventies

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I think his personality will mean he wont last long in a job. He'll come in and guarantee success, but it will be temporary and he'll leave not long after having padded out his CV, stuffing his pockets with the loot and left the next manager to play the peacemaker and clean up the sh*te. Mourinho doesn't plan for a clubs future, he plans for his own future. He's the managerial equivalent of David Beckham, he's always larger than the team.

That said he has done well enough. One champions league with Porto and two league titles with Chelsea. Not bad going.

whatawaster

SlickRic wrote: »

agreed.

but this alone means he shouldn't get the job?

no, i think there are other reasons:

At Chelsea his success was built on inheriting two great English players in their prime (lampard and terry) and an already expensive squad he was allowed add to expensively. He did great there, but he had a very advantageous, comfortable position.

At Inter i'd argue he's had it very easy. Inherited quality, money to spend, not huge amount of competition for the title. They've not impacted at all in Europe under him.

His teams don't play good football, and even though they are superbly organised and motivated, i think he is idealess when things go against his teams, other than rousing speeches. Huth up top against Liverpool?

all that said, he is a very very good manager.

Paulegend

Mitch Connor wrote: »

not according to rumours hitting the net today.

the rumour started yesterday that a press conference is on the way. the press arent even suspicious so lets just say i dont agree that the internet is a reliable source for these "stories"

Bandit12

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I think his personality will mean he wont last long in a job. He'll come in and guarantee success, but it will be temporary and he'll leave not long after having padded out his CV, stuffing his pockets with the loot and left the next manager to play the peacemaker and clean up the sh*te. Mourinho doesn't plan for a clubs future, he plans for his own future. He's the managerial equivalent of David Beckham, he's always larger than the team.

What loot?

leninbenjamin

Bandit12 wrote: »

What loot?

here's a picture.



work out the rest yourself, it's not difficult.

The Muppet

Is he done yet? How did the press conference go?

mink_man

i think thsi is benitezs' last season at pool....can u actually envisaging benitez at pool next season if they dont make the top 4, and i dont think theyl make the top 4....just imagine it, its hard...

Kess73

opr wrote: »

While I feel Rafa should still be given till the end of the season I would like to educate myself a little about possible replacements.

I actually know fairly little about some of the names being bandied about so in an effort to be more informed, here is what I think but would like if people who know more could give their thoughts on this list of managers both positive and negative ? Also if you feel I have left out someone who you would like to see come in ?

The main thing I want from any manager hired is that they try and play progressive, attacking and expansive football.

Slaven Bilić

In management terms he's pretty unproven. Whenever I have seen him interviewed I always admire how he talks about the game and some of his critical analysis seemed very good. His team do seem to play the game in a progressive attacking manner. He comes across as a very intelligent man who understands the game. I think I could be persuaded a gamble on this man is a good thing.

Guus Hiddink

Guess he is pretty much the only manager that seems would be widely accepted as a good replacement if Rafa does leave. He has a wealth of experience but for some reason I wouldn't like to see him at Liverpool. Why do people feel he is best candidate ?

José Mourinho

Obviously the man I know most about in the list. He is one of the very best managers out their in terms of getting results but I would not like to see him get the job. I hate the way his teams play football.

Frank Rijkaard

Managed at the top level and with success. This has obviously been blighted by his latter days with Barcelona. He plays football in a progressive and attacking manner. Of all the managers I think he the one I would most want to see get the Job.

How big were his failings at Barcelona that seem to be putting most people off when you mention his name ?

Laurent Blanc

Someone I knew very little about until people starting shouting names as possible replacements. On paper he looks like a very good prospect and his success since becoming manager is very impressive. What kind of football do Bordeaux play? Would he leave if offered the job by Liverpool ?

Jürgen Klinsmann

He did well with the national team, but that was in a home World Cup and in truth their run to the Semi’s was an easy one and their only win against good opposition came against Argentina after a penalty shoot-out. Bayern Munich didn’t work out and I just don't think he is ready or good enough to be given the job.

Gianfranco Zola

If you have finished laughing ? A very intelligent real footballing man. I think he has assembled and is building a great team in which he promotes youth. I love how he has them playing and again he is true to the philosophy of attacking, progressive football even with limited resources. I think they have been very unlucky so far this season and they will not be involved in the relegation battle at the end of the season.

Opr

Good post and some good points raised.

Of the names on your list, the first four would be the ones I would favour along with Roy from Craven Cottage.

Chucky the tree

Boggles wrote: »

Whats wrong with Hughes?

Prob the best young manager in the league.

Has proven he can work within a club with no money, has an eye for a bargain, Santa Cruz.

Gets the best out of players the irk of Bellamy.

And most importantly he has just finished up managing a club that has been constantly ahead of Liverpool in the league this season.

Quality Boggles. Just finished up managing a club? He got sacked because his team under-performed. So you want Liverpool to replace one under-performing manager with another one? I guessing you only want that because your a united fan and not because it makes footballing sense, because if you think it's a smart footballing move you've got problems.

Kirby

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He got sacked because his team under-performed. .

They didn't under perform.

A couple points off the champions league places, and only lost two games all season which is the best in the league. Played fabulous attacking football. Far too many draws but Benitez did that last season and he stayed in the job.

His sacking was political, not results based. They had his replacement lined up months ago.

Peyton Manning

Im sorry, but has anyone seen Benitez interview after the Portsmouth game?

Absolutely cringeworthy and embarassing for the club.

http://www.isntelevision.info/media/68/Liverpool_boss_on_Pompey_loss/

Just seen it myself so apologies if it has been posted.