Are Liverpool ( and Rafa ) done? *Haters Gonna Hate

whatawaster

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Anderson turned out to be pretty gash??

LoLWOT

He’ll be a good player in a few years, but he was hilariously overpriced and is quite average.

Boggles wrote: »

Why is Liverpools budget being spouted out for one of the reasons of their current predictment then?

Our budget is no excuse for our current position.
It might be a viable excuse if we were second and couldn’t quite make the leap to first. But the manager and the players are to blame for our position

Kess73

Ush1 wrote: »

So roughly 7 million, and what were the add ons which were not met?

Games played and silverware won.

It was much publicized in Pennants last season how he needed to play a set amount of games that season to activate the add on, and he ended up not even coming close to the number, which many speculated was done on purpose by Rafa to avoid the add on, as Pennant had already declared that he was going to see out his contract and move for free at the end of that season.

DOC09UNAM

whatawaster wrote: »

He’ll be a good player in a few years, but he was hilariously overpriced and is quite average.

I completely disagree about him being average.

He has been, and will be, far greater than lucas/, mascherano or kuyt.

They are average.

Pepe LeFrits

Kess73 wrote: »

At the end of the day, trophies are what supporters want, especially those of the bigger clubs.

Wenger had an amazing record for his first seven or so years in England, but the last six or seven have been very average in comparison, with him unable to compete with Chelsea and Man Utd.

And as for buying lame ducks, Wenger would not get the cash at Liverpool to be spending sums like the £12 million he spent on a teenage Walcott.

He didn't spend £12m on Walcott.

His last four years or so have been average by comparison, but that's since he's stopped spending. He's looking after the long term future of the club and not squeezing every last penny out of the owners. How's Rafa doing since he stopped spending?

SlickRic

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I completely disagree about him being average.

He has been, and will be, far greater than lucas/, mascherano or kuyt.

They are average.

nice try.

i suggest you take that crap elsewhere.

Ush1

Kess73 wrote: »

Games played and silverware won.

It was much publicized in Pennants last season how he needed to play a set amount of games that season to activate the add on, and he ended up not even coming close to the number, which many speculated was done on purpose by Rafa to avoid the add on, as Pennant had already declared that he was going to see out his contract and move for free at the end of that season.

This the one?
http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2009/pennant-looks-to-extend-liverpool-career/

whatawaster

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I completely disagree about him being average.

He has been, and will be, far greater than lucas/, mascherano or kuyt.

They are average.

He’s absolutely average. He has a great engine and great pace, but I don’t think he’s intelligent, he doesn’t pass well enough, doesn’t score goals, is not creative.
Mascherano average? Ha ha ha.

By the way, especially on this seasons form, I would not swap Anderson for Lucas. No way.

The Muppet

Villain wrote: »

Anyone know where the pool finished the last time they were 8th at Xmas?

Go on ye devil ya?

I think they won it.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

Why is Liverpools budget being spouted out for one of the reasons of their current predictment then?

You won't have seen me blame it for our current situation. I mentioned in a post of late that it could be used by some as an excuse for not challenging the title chasers on a consistent basis, ie Chelsea and United, but the blame for performances against clubs from mid table or lower lies firmly with the manager and the players.

All that is going on in this thread now is some people, yourself not actually being one of those as of late I think you have been trying to debate issues albeit with a touch of mischief, trying to raise the heckles of others and dredging up budgets and old topics despite the majority of Liverpool fans already acknowledging that there is a serious problem at the club, with many having lost patience with Rafa.

I would be one that has lost patience with the man, but I am not going to belittle the good that he has done for the club or make small time comments about a man who has tried his best for the club. He has made big mistakes and his stubborn nature has cost him, but never, imho, has he not tried his best.

Some of the players on the other hand, cannot say the same, and the spineless performances of some are damning reflections on their character when things get tough.

The Muppet

RasTa wrote: »

I had to stop reading once he mentioned the type of goals scored against them. Who is the guy?

I think he's Mr AL's dad but don't quote me on that as I could be wrong.:)

He is an author and writes for liverpools website , (moans about how little he gets for doing so) . He appears to be quite deluded IMO. His articles are usually good for a laugh though as is evident by this latest one.

DOC09UNAM

SlickRic wrote: »

nice try.

i suggest you take that crap elsewhere.

Wait, what?

I'm not allowed to claim a liverpool player is average, but he can claim a united player is average... interesting... you a liverpool supporter???

Boggles

Kess73 wrote: »

I would be one that has lost patience with the man, but I am not going to belittle the good that he has done for the club or make small time comments about a man who has tried his best for the club. He has made big mistakes and his stubborn nature has cost him, but never, imho, has he not tried his best.

Best for Rafa, then the club, more like.
.

DOC09UNAM

whatawaster wrote: »

He’s absolutely average. He has a great engine and great pace, but I don’t think he’s intelligent, he doesn’t pass well enough, doesn’t score goals, is not creative.
Mascherano average? Ha ha ha.

By the way, especially on this seasons form, I would not swap Anderson for Lucas. No way.

Mascherano i was probably wrong about, he is a step above the other two sorry about that...

But lucas, I dunno, i would put anderson in every time... I think kuyt is a work horse, and I know he contributes alot to the pool, but he is an average player too.

with Lucas, i just don't see it.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Best for Rafa, then the club, more like.
.

f*ck off. He's always put the club first, and it's obvious the affection he has for it and its fans. It's the only reasons he didn't become Real Madrid manager a couple of years ago.

Davei141

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Wait, what?

I'm not allowed to claim a liverpool player is average, but he can claim a united player is average... interesting... you a liverpool supporter???

If you want people to take the bait you need to be less subtle than a sledgehammer to the face.

0/10.

SlickRic

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I'm not allowed to claim a liverpool player is average, but he can claim a united player is average... interesting... you a liverpool supporter???

you're allowed 'claim' all you want.

but if you post something that is cr*p i'll probably say as such.

and calling Anderson not at all average while calling Mascherano average is just that. cr*p.

on this season's form i'd take lucas, even though Anderson could well become the better player.

Kuyt, even though he can be infuriating, and has been poor this year, is not average all of a sudden. he's proed himself 10 times more than Anderson has yet.

Anderson is a talent mostly unfulfilled right now.

edit: just saw your post about Masch. apologies

Kess73

Ush1 wrote: »

This the one?
http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/lfc-news/2009/pennant-looks-to-extend-liverpool-career/

Yes the contract extension would have activated the add on. When offered a new contract in the summer of 2008 he knocked it back, and when January came around his agent then started making noises about wanting a new contract, but the bridge was burnt at that stage.

DOC09UNAM

Davei141 wrote: »

If you want people to take the bait you need to be less subtle than a sledgehammer to the face.

0/10.

No bait, just genuine opinion tbh.

I didn't know everyone got so hot under the collar from reading some facts.

midget lord

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I completely disagree about him being average.

He has been, and will be, far greater than lucas/, mascherano or kuyt.

They are average.

Anderson better than Mascherano? Good man.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

Best for Rafa, then the club, more like.
.

Well I was not complaining when he led up to the CL and won it, nor was I complaining when we won the FA cup, and funnily enough I was not complaining last season, so it would be churlish to suggest the man was only out for what was best for himself.

The better the club does the better it is for him anyway.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

f*ck off. He's always put the club first, and it's obvious the affection he has for it and its fans. It's the only reasons he didn't become Real Madrid manager a couple of years ago.

Whats the average life span of real madrid manager, 12 months??

Hardly that noble turning them in fairness, you need to try harder.

Especially considering he gets paid 5 million a year and has full control of the club now, something Rafas ego needs to have.

Kess73

SlickRic wrote: »

you're allowed 'claim' all you want.

but if you post something that is cr*p i'll probably say as such.

and calling Anderson not at all average while calling Mascherano average is just that. cr*p.

on this season's form i'd take lucas, even though Anderson could well become the better player.

Kuyt, even though he can be infuriating, and has been poor this year, is not average all of a sudden. he's proed himself 10 times more than Anderson has yet.

Anderson is a talent mostly unfulfilled right now.

edit: just saw your post about Masch. apologies

I would not worry about it, Last season there were people claiming both Anderson and Carrick were superior players to Alonso. Which was some claim given Alonso's form.

Then again I suppose the hook has to be baited with something.

Ush1

Boggles wrote: »

Whats the average life span of real madrid manager, 12 months??

Hardly that noble turning them in fairness, you need to try harder.

Especially considering he gets paid 5 million a year and has full control of the club now, something Rafas ego needs to have.

Even less for a defensive manager prolly. Capello got sacked and had won the league!

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Whats the average life span of real madrid manager, 12 months??

Hardly that noble turning them in fairness, you need to try harder.

Especially considering he gets paid 5 million a year and has full control of the club now, something Rafas ego needs to have.

What manager wouldn’t like full control of their club? Ferguson and Wenger have always had it. IMO it’s the way to run a club.
Our youth system is a mess, so Rafa brings in people from Barcelona’s academy, sounds good to me.

anplaya

Boggles wrote: »

Whats the average life span of real madrid manager, 12 months??

Hardly that noble turning them in fairness, you need to try harder.

Especially considering he gets paid 5 million a year and has full control of the club now, something Rafas ego needs to have.

really?do ya not know of Benitezs association with real madrid.id suggest ya read up on it.the fact he turns them down even with the history he has with them.something tells me rafa would last a lot longer than that in spain,ie look what he did with valencia,and they didnt have the same money as previous reals manager could afford to have to spend on players,and that budgets gone up now too.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

What manager wouldn’t like full control of their club? Ferguson and Wenger have always had it.

One thing having full control, tis a completely different kettle of spanners being succesful doing it.

In Rafas first term as full guardian.

He has over spent and bought turkeys, lost the dressing room, and his mind if you listen to the last interview.

Bravo.

midget lord

Kess73 wrote: »

I would not worry about it, Last season there were people claiming both Anderson and Carrick were superior players to Alonso. Which was some claim given Alonso's form.

Then again I suppose the hook has to be baited with something.

On the other end of spectrum are Liverpool fans who belive we would be top if Xabi was still here.

Boggles

anplaya wrote: »

really?do ya not know of Benitezs association with real madrid.id suggest ya read up on it.the fact he turns them down even with the history he has with them.something tells me rafa would last a lot longer than that in spain.

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

One thing having full control, tis a completely different kettle of spanners being succesful doing it.

lost the dressing room

sometimes i agree with you.

sometimes i agree with some of what you say.

then you say something like this.

you cannot know this.

Portsmouth was the first game where you could even start claiming players weren't playing for him.

the effort has always been there.

against Wigan earlier in the week, the players gave everything they had.

Ush1

anplaya wrote: »

really?do ya not know of Benitezs association with real madrid.id suggest ya read up on it.the fact he turns them down even with the history he has with them.something tells me rafa would last a lot longer than that in spain,ie look what he did with valencia,and they didnt have the same money as previous reals manager could afford to have to spend on players,and that budgets gone up now too.

You're mental, Real will sack you no matter who you are.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

sometimes i agree with you.

sometimes i agree with some of what you say.

then you say something like this.

you cannot know this.

Portsmouth was the first game where you could even start claiming players weren't playing for him.

the effort has always been there.

against Wigan earlier in the week, the players gave everything they had.

Arsenal match?

Blackburn, Fulham?

I agree with alot of what you say too, but if you can't see serious problems with the players attitudes, then I'm not going to convince you.

anplaya

Ush1 wrote: »

You're mental, Real will sack you no matter who you are.

never said they wouldnt sack him,.i said hed prob last longer than previous managers.whats that got to do with being mental?

Ush1

anplaya wrote: »

never said they wouldnt sack him,.i said hed prob last longer than previous managers.whats that got to do with being mental?

It makes it no more an attractive proposition than the previous poster said. The fact that he's Rafa Benitez wouldn't change anything.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Arsenal match?

Blackburn, Fulham?

I agree with alot of what you say too, but if you can't see serious problems with the players attitudes, then I'm not going to convince you.

would that be the arsenal match where they hassled and harried Arsenal out of the game for 50 odd minutes, conceded an unlucky og and then the confidence drained out of them? No evidence whatsoever in that game of them not playing for the manager.

anplaya

Boggles wrote: »

Arsenal match?

Blackburn, Fulham?

I agree with alot of what you say too, but if you can't see serious problems with the players attitudes, then I'm not going to convince you.

thats true about the arsenal match.meself and the lads couldnt understand the difference in the players attitude in the second half of the match,was a total contrast from the first half.didnt look interested tbh.

Kess73

midget lord wrote: »

On the other end of spectrum are Liverpool fans who belive we would be top if Xabi was still here.

Actually I do believe that we would be better off now if Xabi was still here.

Xabi was able to organise the team plus set and change tempos during games. We are lacking in both those on pitch departments at present. Also he was a talker on the pitch, and from reports he was a bit of a leader and talker off of the pitch too.

I think if Xabi was here then there would have been a lot more cohesion on the pitch this season, maybe not enough to have us in first, but in my mind there is no doubt that we would have turned some of the losses into draws , and maybe a draw or two into a win.

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

would that be the arsenal match where they hassled and harried Arsenal out of the game for 50 odd minutes, conceded an unlucky og and then the confidence drained out of them? No evidence whatsoever in that game of them not playing for the manager.

The last 40 minutes is more or less what I'm referring to?

whatawaster

anplaya wrote: »

thats true about the arsenal match.meself and the lads couldnt understand the difference in the players attitude in the second half of the match,was a total contrast from the first half.didnt look interested tbh.

confidence. It's not like when Gerrard and Torres saw Johnson score an og they decided to mutiny

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

The last 40 minutes is more or less what I'm referring to?

I think that showed more about the spineless nature of some of the senior players this season than it was players not performing because of the manager.

anplaya

Ush1 wrote: »

It makes it no more an attractive proposition than the previous poster said. The fact that he's Rafa Benitez wouldn't change anything.

never said it would.just something i feel is hed last longer than previous managers.think a team like real would suit him,and his style.like he had at valencia, alot more than at liverpool,think hes too restrained there.

Ush1

anplaya wrote: »

never said it would.just something i feel is hed last longer than previous managers.think a team like real would suit him,and his style.like he had at valencia, alot more than at liverpool,think hes too restrained there.

Defensive coaches don't go down well at the Bernabeu, and even ones that do win things are rarely given "time". Madrid as a club is based on signing the best players, managers are totally dispensable.

anplaya

whatawaster wrote: »

confidence. It's not like when Gerrard and Torres saw Johnson score an og they decided to mutiny

confidence?what a load of arse wipe .established internationals like them?getting paid for it?dont be talking ****e.its not fecking under8 football on the local park.they didnt look interested from the start of the second half.body language said it all. even the 5 mins b4 johnson got the og they didnt look interested.if i was gettin even a tiny bit of the money they were gettin id be killing meself on that pitch.but nah.

anplaya

Ush1 wrote: »

Defensive coaches don't go down well at the Bernabeu, and even ones that do win things are rarely given "time". Madrid as a club is based on signing the best players, managers are totally dispensable.

not really,they like having the best players,but at madrid its the silverware that counts?no?thought thats why they sack managers?when they dont win anything?somehow i think they could adapt to his style.

Ush1

anplaya wrote: »

not really,they like having the best players,but at madrid its the silverware that counts?no?thought thats why they sack managers?when they dont win anything?somehow i think they could adapt to his style.

Well, you're wrong mate. They sack managers that win also.

whatawaster

anplaya wrote: »

confidence?what a load of arse wipe .established internationals like them?getting paid for it?dont be talking ****e.its not fecking under8 football on the local park.they didnt look interested from the start of the second half.body language said it all. even the 5 mins b4 johnson got the og they didnt look interested.if i was gettin even a tiny bit of the money they were gettin id be killing meself on that pitch.but nah.

If you think high paid, or top class sports people are immune from pressure, confidence and all that carry on, then you know NOTHING about sport. The team did kill themselves in the first half, they were naturally not going to have the capacity to do that for 90 minutes.

anplaya

Ush1 wrote: »

Well, you're wrong mate. They sack managers that win also.

yeh theyre petty like that.something in my mind tells me some manager did the double for them but didnt win the cl so got sacked.not sure.plus im not english ,'mate',are you?if not,dont use that word,sounds stupid when an irish person does.

Fuhrer

anplaya wrote: »

yeh theyre petty like that.something in my mind tells me some manager did the double for them but didnt win the cl so got sacked.not sure.plus im not english ,'mate',are you?if not,dont use that word,sounds stupid when an irish person does.

Calm down.

Mate.

anplaya

whatawaster wrote: »

If you think high paid, or top class sports people are immune from pressure, confidence and all that carry on, then you know NOTHING about sport. The team did kill themselves in the first half, they were naturally not going to have the capacity to do that for 90 minutes.

huh,ive represented ireland playing football.killed myself everytime i was on the pitch.and yeah feel the pressure alright,but i block it all out and treat every game like a final.maybe its my mentality?i have other pressures outside sport too family,work etc,but every game i play that goes out the window.one focus,and thats for the team,after all,theres no i in team.

RasTa

anplaya wrote: »

plus im not english ,'mate',are you?if not,dont use that word,sounds stupid when an irish person does.

What a twat...

Also is the space bar broken?

anplaya

Fuhrer wrote: »

Calm down.

Mate.

nein ,mein fuhrer.:D