Are lgbt identities explored in the school curriculum?

Filan

They weren't during my day but I left school in 96, has that changed?.

number10a

I doubt it. I'm guessing you don't remember that small niggling fact that most schools in this country are run by that Roman institution that isn't too gone on LGBT matters to begin with. I left school in 2005, there were no LGBT issues being dealt with then and our religion teacher in Leaving Cert tried to teach us how not to use a condom (i.e. the rythm method) for proper married sex of course.

Iwasfrozen

Filan wrote: »

They weren't during my day but I left school in 96, has that changed?.

I'm a leaving Cert student so no, they aren't.

mobius42

They should be though, as the Dept. of Education just released a document on the teaching of LGBT issues in secondary schools.

http://www.glen.ie/education/pdfs/Guidance%20for%20School%20Leaders.pdf

Filan

I'm really disappointed at that, I'm actually a qualified albeit non practicing teacher and really thought the curriculum would have evolved with the rest of society.....

jady88

They weren't addressed in my school under the sex-ed class... if you could call it that. We did get a mention in history and English though. I finished secondary school in 06, to be honest I'm not sure how comfortable I would have been with homosexual themes in sex-ed... especially since in our school sex-ed was all taught according to "Catholic principles"....

mobius42

It's a disgrace that they don't address LGBT issues in some form in secondary schools. If they had in my school, it would have made such a difference for me.

cotwold

jady88 wrote: »

I would have been with homosexual themes in sex-ed... especially since in our school sex-ed was all taught according to "Catholic principles"....

Janey Mac! Catholic principles? Now that is an anachronism. I went to a fairly strict Catholic school and our sex ed was pretty good. Covered by the school in seminar type lectures when we were in first year and then we had sphe (social personal helath education) till third year which went over it all again. Gay sex wasnt adressed till 6th year tho when our biology teacher talked to us about it from a disease angle.

mobius42 wrote: »

It's a disgrace that they don't address LGBT issues in some form in secondary schools. If they had in my school, it would have made such a difference for me.

Yeah i think it would help every lgbt youth. I was talking to a friend studying primary teaching and she was saying its covered as part of some relationship workshops, can anyone confirm that?

Sorry

I remember some of the LGBT themes discussed when I was in sixth class. Our teacher told us Freddie Mercury and Kenny Everett died from being gay. And also that women only become lesbians after being mistreated by men. Bloated old windbag, I hated her so much.

cotwold

That sounds terrible but the lesbian comment totally deserves a lol.:pac:

Nebit

our school didn't teach us sex-ed at all! nothing was ever said!! thank feck for porn < that wasn't meant to sound bad btw. but seriously our school was run by the nuns, they only got used to the idea it was a mixed school!
and it was the first mixed school in ireland ffs!

jady88

cotwold wrote: »

Janey Mac! Catholic principles? Now that is an anachronism.

Well thats what our teacher said as she blushed...

cotwold wrote: »

I went to a well known private s.Dub Catholic school and our sex ed was pretty good.

What an unnecessary addition...

cotwold wrote: »

Gay sex wasnt adressed till 6th year tho when our biology teacher talked to us about it from a disease angle.

How positive... (no pun intended)

Aard

cotwold wrote: »

Gay sex wasnt adressed till 6th year tho when our biology teacher talked to us about it from a disease angle.

Same here. Cue half the class turning around to look at me when the teacher mentions "anal sex".

shoegirl

Sorry wrote: »

I remember some of the LGBT themes discussed when I was in sixth class. Our teacher told us Freddie Mercury and Kenny Everett died from being gay. And also that women only become lesbians after being mistreated by men. Bloated old windbag, I hated her so much.

Oh dear. I recall when I was at primary school, which was just after Rock Hudson's passing, that adults at home and school would switch station or turn off the radio if anything came on about his passing or HIV in front of us kids.

I think schools are issued guidelines but effectively can evade actually giving a secular non-homophobic viewpoint by exercising their right to educate according to their "ethos." Of course most teachers I know are a relatively conservative lot over here, and most I know would be deeply embarrassed mentioning it at all.

cotwold

jady88 wrote: »

What an unnecessary addition...

On the contrary, i take it you're not from dublin. The only reason i say it is because the church has more of a sway in private schools and their teaching practices. ive edited it though to ease up confusion.

jady88

cotwold wrote: »

On the contrary, i take it you're not from dublin. The only reason i say it is because the church has more of a sway in private schools and their teaching practices. ive edited it though to ease up confusion.

Em there are private schools outside of dublin... Taking your comment together with your location I'd estimate I have a few friends from your old school... the internet makes the world a lot smaller!

sierraecho

I do remember in religion class (of all classes) there was a small bit covered on it but not really enough to say its was explored in the school curriculum.

cotwold

jady88 wrote: »

Em there are private schools outside of dublin...

Again missing the point jady, I was explaining how relatively liberal sex ed in my school was despite being in a highly conservative and quite religious environment.

jady88 wrote: »

I'd estimate I have a few friends from your old school.

Now that was an "unnecessary addition...":pac:

jady88

cotwold wrote: »

Again missing the point jady, I was explaining how relatively liberal sex ed in my school was despite being in a highly conservative and quite religious environment.

No not missing the point just trying to point out that despite not being from dublin did not mean I wasn't aware of private schools

cotwold wrote: »

Now that was an "unnecessary addition...":pac:

I was just trying to point out that I am aware of what it is like in south dublin private schools... since you pointed out that you went to a "well known" one...

philologos

mobius42 wrote: »

They should be though, as the Dept. of Education just released a document on the teaching of LGBT issues in secondary schools.

http://www.glen.ie/education/pdfs/Guidance%20for%20School%20Leaders.pdf

Having flicked through that document it concerns how to deal with students who are gay, lesbian or bisexual and how to help them in situations where they may be experiencing homophobic bullying. That of course is entirely reasonable. It also goes into the diversity of different family structures that people should be aware of. Again, fair enough.

If they did teach about LGBT structures in schools, I would expect an impartial assessment rather than one that panders to either viewpoint on the matter. Particularly in relation to the concept of family, and the concept of marriage.

This is an example of how it shouldn't be done:

Sorry wrote:

I remember some of the LGBT themes discussed when I was in sixth class. Our teacher told us Freddie Mercury and Kenny Everett died from being gay. And also that women only become lesbians after being mistreated by men. Bloated old windbag, I hated her so much.

The same applies to the other side of course.

cotswold wrote:

On the contrary, i take it you're not from dublin. The only reason i say it is because the church has more of a sway in private schools and their teaching practices. ive edited it though to ease up confusion.

It depends on the religious ethos of said school. The school I went to was of a CoI ethos and rather liberal on the subject.

Aard

Tbh, I wouldn't like to go all affirmative-action on it, and start teaches kids that "it's OK to be gay". :rolleyes: Rather, I'd be happy with a couple of safe-sex classes. Condoms, lube, STDs, that kind of thing. And yes, teach about anal sex ffs - it's not just the gay kids that do it!

cotwold

Aard wrote: »

Tbh, I wouldn't like to go all affirmative-action on it, and start teaches kids that "it's OK to be gay". :rolleyes: Rather, I'd be happy with a couple of safe-sex classes. Condoms, lube, STDs, that kind of thing. And yes, teach about anal sex ffs - it's not just the gay kids that do it!

I have to disagree i think it should be covered but at a younger age, junior or senior infants. Kids should be taught at these ages about the different kind of relationship adults have as well as sex ed.

Aard

I think we're getting our lines crossed: I was referring to the sex-ed side of things; I doubt you think senior infants kids should be taught about sex!


My "It's OK to be gay" comment was in regard to teaching a group of teenagers. I agree, young kids should be aware of the many different types of families out there.

Aoifums

Nothing has ever been said. I'm a 5th year and apart from my religion teacher's horrible comments, nothing has ever been mentioned.

Ffs though, we haven't even had sex ed in secondary. We got a puberty talk in primary and then covered the biological aspect in Biology and Home Ec. Everything else came from parents/google/porn.
We did have a pregnant second year last year. And they wondered how that happened :rolleyes:

jady88

In my primary school the class above us got a sex ed talk when they were in 6th class apparently it was very embarrassing... however when we were in 6th class the teacher walked in after secretly listening to us discussing sex on our break and screamed at the top of her voice with tears in her eyes "We were going to give you a sex ed class but it seems you don't need it!" before running out again.:)

I'm not sure how effective sex ed can be nowadays.

Fad

I never got any sex ed in school........

I think the basics need to be overhauled before people start pushing for the inclusion of lgbt content (This probably seems harsher than I intend, but I'm in a hurry!)

KnifeWRENCH

We had a couple of SPHE classes but it wasn't until third year, and all we pretty much learned about was "where babies come from" :rolleyes: Sex was assumed to be between men and women. On the plus side, we never had "sex is bad, abstinence is the only answer" or any anti-LGBT crap thrown at us.

In 6th year our Biology teacher went on maternity leave and a young subsititue in her early 20's was teaching us. She was shocked that we never had any sex ed and spent a class talking to us about it. By that time, everyone had pretty much figured everything out themselves anyway, but it was still good to get some bit of conversation going. (She made a brief reference to anal sex, but the thing I most remember arising from that discussion was the rumour that some people use empty crisp packets as condoms! )

There was never any LGBT issues raised anywhere; at the same time I don't think homophobia was a big issue in my school, so it didn't strike me as odd at the time. There should definitely be reference and exploration of LGBT identities, but the standard of sex ed in Irish schools seems quite poor anyway (pretty sure this came up in C&H at some point) so lack of LGBT issues isn't the only deficiency of the current system.

philologos

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

On the plus side, we never had abstinence or anti-LGBT crap thrown at us.

Dealing with the text in bold alone, I don't see how that is positive in the slightest. In any sex-ed course, abstinence should always be put across as the most effective way of ensuring against catching STD's or teen pregnancy. Contraception methods should also be taught, but it's plainly wrong to leave out something as important as abstinence and indeed what differing people feel about it. Waiting until one has a structured relationship and being monogamous seems the most logical thing to teach.

KnifeWRENCH

Sorry, didn't explain myself too well. I meant teaching abstinence as the only form of sex ed. (i.e. sex before marriage is wrong because you'll get pregnant and die, etc...)

Will edit my post.

hot2def

Jakkass wrote: »

In any sex-ed course, abstinence should always be put across as the most effective way of ensuring against catching STD's or teen pregnancy.

They should also mention that homosexual sex is completely teen pregnancy proof as well....I mean, while we are talking agendas...

philologos

hot2def wrote: »

They should also mention that homosexual sex is completely teen pregnancy proof as well....I mean, while we are talking agendas...

I would have thought that was obvious. I have no issue teaching about LGBT sexuality in the classroom at about 6th class age. What could also be improved is a discussion of the common arguments of why people hold issue with premarital sex, and the counterargument. Likewise why people hold issue with LGBT sexuality and the counterargument. It would allow people to hear both sides and make up their mind more effectively.

I also think people should know how exactly abortions are carried out.