Recession and Emigration

MrMen1900

Hi all,

I am looking to hear from people who are contemplating or have emigrated recently. I would ideally like to hear from people who have maybe lost their jobs or like me, who have jobs but are so disillusioned with the lack of leadership or future prospects in this country that I really don't know whether to stay or go!

Please note I'm not looking for people who have spent a year in Oz and think it's such a deadly place to live that they can't wait to go back!!

I really would appreciate hearing from anybody who is contemplating emigration due to the recession / job loss or just complete disillusionment.

I would like to write a story on this matter and all stories / insight /thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Dob74

Thinking of heading back to the states myself.
When we have real justice for white collar crimials then this country will be worth living in.
The lack of state regulation in legal, Medical and banking systems is a joke.
The press has a hard on for low paid workers and people on the dole.
But is afraid to point out how outragous Legal and doctors fees are.

#15

I am contemplating emigration too. I am learning German at the moment, so that one option. Another is Canada or the US.
I am primary school teacher, so it may be easier for me to find work in North America. The language could prove too much of a barrier for me in Germany.

My girlfriend is German, so that would make it easier to settle. And they have a good standard of living there IMO. They seem to have a better quality of life from what I can see.

And I am disgusted with the attitude of people here since the recession began (on a whole range of issues, from politics to race to common sense).

Although a part of me would like to stay and see things really change here.

kaiser sauze

Dob74 wrote: »

Thinking of heading back to the states myself.
When we have real justice for white collar crimials then this country will be worth living in.
The lack of state regulation in legal, Medical and banking systems is a joke.
The press has a hard on for low paid workers and people on the dole.
But is afraid to point out how outragous Legal and doctors fees are.

You want to go from a country with lax regulation to one with practically none?

The States is one of the last places people should be thinking of heading to.

lmimmfn

Im working, but from what i believe the next 2 budgets will deliver,i.e. do nothing regarding the massive cost of the public sector/civil servants/HSE & consultants/TD's/fictional world that trade unions live in and that the government will just tax the the shortfall away i'm really considering leaving.

Unfortunately everything is such a mess here now and feels like its being governed by complete amateurs( cant even legislate to prevent this happening again or prevent the same personal guarantees of developers being given to multiple financial institutions ) that ive lost all faith in them and the country having any direction.
Coupled with Nama( which will take 11 years before being complete ) and the greed in the country( which seems to be part of society here now unfortunately and which politicians/developers enjoy like everyone else did ) the future looks horribly bleak.

My current stance based on my circumstances and the world economy is to leave it untill march next year and start planning based on the outlook/situation at that stage( both at home and globally ).

solas geal

Guys, I understand the pain and frustration that the current situation is having on people, but I'd just recommend thinking long and hard before making the decision to uproot.
If your sole reason for wanting to move is disillusionment, I'd pretty much guarantee that there are many issues in Germany, States, wherever, that would give cause for you to be just as disillusioned. I agree with kaizer sauze that a move to the States definitely wouldn't be all a land of milk and honey. Health care system cares even less about the less well off over there than it does in Ireland. Also, while Ireland has been badly hit, this is a global recession (with the exception of Australia). There is no guarantee that you are going to go to Germany, especially not the States, and pick up a job handily. Have a look through the newspapers of these other countries and you will see the exact same issues coming up as come up in Ireland. I'm not saying that we don't need to fix anything - we do, and there has definitely been unacceptable levels of corruption etc - but the grass is always greener so I'd just bear it in mind before making the move. Just my tuppence

lmimmfn

solas geal wrote: »

Guys, I understand the pain and frustration that the current situation is having on people, but I'd just recommend thinking long and hard before making the decision to uproot.
If your sole reason for wanting to move is disillusionment, I'd pretty much guarantee that there are many issues in Germany, States, wherever, that would give cause for you to be just as disillusioned. I agree with kaizer sauze that a move to the States definitely wouldn't be all a land of milk and honey. Health care system cares even less about the less well off over there than it does in Ireland. Also, while Ireland has been badly hit, this is a global recession (with the exception of Australia). There is no guarantee that you are going to go to Germany, especially not the States, and pick up a job handily. Have a look through the newspapers of these other countries and you will see the exact same issues coming up as come up in Ireland. I'm not saying that we don't need to fix anything - we do, and there has definitely been unacceptable levels of corruption etc - but the grass is always greener so I'd just bear it in mind before making the move. Just my tuppence

true, but other countries dont have a lumbering 11 year Nama bill hanging over them which has to be funded somehow and also most dont have such powerful hold the country to ransom trade unions protecting the cost of the public sector.
The economies in other countries will pick up in the next year or two and then its time for the brain drain to start.

daithicarr

I have considered it all right, many if not most my friends have left, mostly with a short term view of staying away but many with a long term view.

But Where to go too and why should i be forced to leave my home , my country my friends and family (whats left of them). I want to live here.
And meeting many people from other country's who express similar woe about their own country makes me wonder if things are unrepairable here ? many people seem to think their country is going down the tubes and is the worst managed in the world.
I recently met a large bunch of Norwegians who told me their country was beset by economic and social problems, not compared to anywhere else it isn't. ranks in the top of just about every field you'd want to rank in the top off.

Im going to stay, hope things get better, and if i can figure out how to fight for things to get better. its a pity so many who are discontent have left as they could help bring about change, if all those who dont like the system just leave, nothing is going to change

DJDC

As someone who has emigrated I must admit that it really is not for everyone. The world has become an increasingly globalised place and expecially in the big cities like London, Paris, New York, Toronto you are competing against millions of very smart ambitious people. Its a real wake-up call when you realise how much you have to step up your game in terms of language and niche technical skills to land the well paid jobs. All the growth at the moment is not coming from the "Anglo-Saxon" world so you are instantly at a disadvantage when you cant speak fluent Mandarin,Arabic,French etc. I have managed to do fine for myself (touch wood) but I was lucky to have top class work experience and qualifications. Some of my friends who I would consider as average graduates are struggling away in London in low paid jobs and their lifes are arguably worse than if they were at home on the dole. An example of someone who should emigrate and will prosper..programmers (C++ expecially).

You have to honestly ask yourself do you have what it takes to cut it abroad and if you don't well then I can't recommend something that may be a struggle.

KTRIC

I'm coming home to Ireland soon after 2 miserable years in Germany. Munich is fully of pretentious as$holes and the employment law here if for the benifit of the employer not the employee.

Its all well and good saying you'll learn German and get a job but when it comes down to it the employers want someone to speak German and English for multilingual roles. But in fact what they want is an English speaking German. Racism is alive and well in The Fatherland in the 21st Century.

And don't get me started on the 33% tax on all my earnings. Its not stepped like in Ireland.

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Dob74

kaiser sauze wrote: »

You want to go from a country with lax regulation to one with practically none?

The States is one of the last places people should be thinking of heading to.

Dont think so.
Lawyers, Doctors, Real Estate all need a state licence.
And they actually throw Judges, governors in jail if they break the law.
Not the ole the money was only resting in my bank account.

MrMen1900

Hi guys,

Thank you all very much for your replies. It's excellent to get other peoples input into this argument.
A friend of mine has a saying, 'You can get Paddy to do anything or build anything, just don't get him to plan it'. Me personally thinks that never a truer word has been spoken. I love living here.I have a good job and I'm in the luck position that I have a deposit for a house but am unsure whether to buy. I cannot see any leadership or management coming out of this country.Ever. I am down €80 a month from the last levy. I want to know when I will get it back. Thats petrol in my car for 6 weeks!!
I'm not saying that we would all be better off legging it, but other countries also in recession, in my opinion will have proper leadership to climb out of it. We won't.

This government is summed up in two words: incompetent and spineless.

Nothing rots morale more than when those in charge don't know their own mind.

kaiser sauze

Dob74 wrote: »

Dont think so.

That's a very telling statement, ensure you do your research on The US before you decide to go.

Dob74 wrote: »

Lawyers, Doctors, Real Estate all need a state licence.
And they actually throw Judges, governors in jail if they break the law.
Not the ole the money was only resting in my bank account.

Shock! They need a licence!

Take a deep look at their financial crisis and study your 'licensed' real estate agents' role in the crisis.

Then, take a look at their healthcare mess and see the role the 'licencsed' lawyers and doctors had in that.

hth

who_ru

MrMen1900 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am down €80 a month from the last levy. I want to know when I will get it back. Thats petrol in my car for 6 weeks!!

you won't be getting it back the levies are to made permanent in the next budget.

MrMen1900 wrote: »

This government is summed up in two words: incompetent and spineless.

Nothing rots morale more than when those in charge don't know their own mind.

i agree wholeheartedly but these guys know exactly what they are doing - that is putting off the next general election as long as possible until the slightest hint of recovery begins, claim credit for that, and get elected again. the odds on this happening are depressingly short given that the irish electorate is conservative to say the least.

back tp the OP i lived in Germany for a year over a decade ago - i had some german before i went but not fluent - i went there not knowing anyone- it was without doubt THE hardest year of my life. if you decide to go anywhere then it's best that they speak english, the language barrier can be so difficult.

Sea Sharp

I'm contemplating emigrating. The country is a mess and we're pretty much guaranteed that this mess is going to be prolonged / made worse by head-bang-off-the-wall'ingly stupid, incompetent fools in government.

Once I manage to get funds together and once the rest of Europe has improved enough such that I feel confident I can get employment I am out of here.

The thought of these cabbage-brains being responsible for the country I live in is a depressing notion.

2010 -> 20??

The next great brain-drain I reckon. :cool:

jank

Went myself last year although not to a view of going long term I knew that the country was in for a major shock soon. Well that has come.

Submitted my residency papers 2 days ago. Prospects are much better here than at home. Of course there are things wrong with the place but tbh NZ is ran like germany compared to Ireland.

I am not going to go into it all but going away has been the best decision I have ever made. If you are skilled and or educated and have the oppertunity to give it a go, than you should. The world is a global economy and the same applies to people.

I totally agree with DJDC though. The world is full of hard working bright people, so you either have to step up or fall off the way side.

ei.sdraob

they say grass is always greener...

i was thinking along the lines, but instead will stay for foreseeable future and make most of this mess, there are few silver linings in all this, the trick is to see them

tho me "finances" will definitely be leaving the country , i dont see whe anyone should pay for the mess created by the government and their buddies

Festus

The grass is always greener - other countries have their problems - and other such nonsense has been trotted out before and it's all relative or irrelevant depending on how you look at it.

The only time Ireland was seen as the place to be was during the recent boom years and long before the collapse the rot had already set in again. Many companies who were willing to or trying to recruit certain skillsets from abroad during the final years of the boom were frequently politely told to go away after job offers were made.
Why? Cost of accomodation, cost of living and lack of reasonable commuting times from areas of reasonable accomodation to the place of work. These people cared little about the colour of the grass - it's suppossed to be greener here anyway, something to do with the rain - and cared less about local issues unless they were to have a direct impact on their living standard. To whit - salary, taxes, housing motoring and commuting costs. Tescos, McDonalds and Budweiser are pretty much everywhere now so no point in using them as an excuse not to relocate.

Unless you're thinking of heading to a potential war zone whether the grass is greener or not or if there are local issues matters little these days. Researching a potential landing zone is easier and the bottom line is we want to make a living with a minimum of stress.

Of course, another good reason for leaving is to avoid living in a country that currently has a high potential for civil discord.

The Dept. of Finance has been firebombed once already. What's next.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

rumour

lmimmfn wrote: »

true, but other countries dont have a lumbering 11 year Nama bill hanging over them which has to be funded somehow and also most dont have such powerful hold the country to ransom trade unions protecting the cost of the public sector.
The economies in other countries will pick up in the next year or two and then its time for the brain drain to start.

The States has far bigger problems than our NAMA. Europe, our immediate panecea has also the same structural problems. These will come to light in the next few years. All you have to do is look at how much money they are printing. This is the sly way of reducing your bills, devalue your currency. But all of these countries, EU and US are spending more than they earn with little or no hope of ever paying them.

Unfortunately anywhere in the traditional western world has the same problem. One of the benefits of our small nation is that it is so transparent. As distasteful as NAMA is, at least you know its happening. This is a considerable advantage our country has. If we fix this we have an opportunity to be ahead.

That does not say it is easy and some families will have no choice but to leave for them the future is in the east not west.

willit

I was one of those that spent a year on the working holiday visa in Aussie and couldn't wait to get back there when I got back. Lo and behold, two years after getting back to Ireland I found myself back in Sydney.

Long story short, I spent 4 great years in Sydney, working in IT project management, making great money. I had no practical reason for coming home but don't underestimate the sense of isolation you can feel when you turn off the light at night time. Getting e-mails with pictures of your friends and family having fun at various events also tugs hard on the heart strings. Eventually, after my four year visa expired, the company I worked for offered me the chance to get a residency visa through them but I turned it down.

I'm not saying it would be the same for everyone else, I have a lot of Irish friends over in Aus with no intention of coming home. It took me hugely by surprise since I had lived in Aus for a year before going out the second time so I had every intention of staying for good. It really is a dog eat dog world out there and you have to be prepared to put in 12 and 13 hour days on a regular basis to keep up with your peers. The Irish are thought of as great workers and we are but don't expect it to be anything like it is here. We all got a little comfortable in the boom times so if you do go just be ready.

Meanwhile, thanks to the recession my position here was made redundant and I find myself questioning my decision to come home. And no matter how many times I go through it, nothing so far has convinced me to head overseas again. As the previous poster said, at least in this country we can see what decisions the government is stumbling into, that's a luxury that you don't find in many other nations. If Fianna Fail get voted back in the next time we have a general election however, I certainly will be the first person with packed bags catching the next flight to anywhere.