Future of boards.ie debate stuff..

Boston

BuffyBot wrote: »

Drifting off topic folks.

Let's bring it back..

Could we get back to some semblance of a topic. Or maybe split of this boston stuff and send it somewhere else. It's massively derailing.

Thanks.

DeVore

No sorry Boston but you raised allegations (baseless lies) against me in this thread that your PM's were searched and that it was co-ordinated on the Moderators forum.

They were not. You are completely wrong.

Not only that but I actually started a thread in June of this year stating categorically our position on PMs when there was some concern that the new Admins could read them. I made myself very clear about it and I will copy it here:



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, I just wanted to address something. Well, I wanted to make some clear statements in fact.

1. There is no functional way for any admin, myself included, to see PM's sent by anyone, user, mod or admin. We dont have it and we dont want it.

2. The only people who could access PM's are Ross, Conor and probably Cloud.
Darragh and Dav dont have access.

3. If Ross or Conor were to access PM's without due reason in the course of their jobs, I'd consider it a "marching-orders" offence. At the very least it would be final written warning territory. Its extraordinaraily rare for us to access PM's and the last time we did so was under police disclosure direction (yes, it has happened on occasion, quite rare though).

4. Access is through interactive DB access only, through SQL. We dont have anything like PHPADMIN installed.

There is no issue of trust with regard to the admins here, because there is no facility or access for them to do anything with PMs.

I hope that should be an end to the concerns over PMs.

DeV.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Note the "myself included" in that. I dont have interactive DB access, the guys dont give it to me because, quite frankly, I dont need it.

So, the only people who COULD have searched your PM's are Ross and Conor. They did not, nor did I instruct them to.

On the thread where Mods were annoyed with you about you rubbing moderators faces in it that you could read the Mod forum (or so you made out) at least one moderator suggested that we should see who had been contacting you but that suggestion was dismissed.


If I have lied about anything above, I will step down from Boards and never return.

DeV.

Boston

I accept the follow.

1) Ross didn't search them
2) Conor didn't search them
3) DeVore never authorised them to.
4) What was said was completely misinterpreted.

I never read the thread you're quoting. I made the accusations via pm to you on the 10th of the month, and made it clear I intended to put them in the public domain if the matter wasn't resolved. Even a "fuk you boston, it never happened", would have been enough. You choose silence. Which I guess was fair enough, you owed me no reply.

I'm genuinely sorry for accusing you as it has become apparent your stance is the opposite of what I'd taken to be the case. I also shouldn't have said many of the things I did via private message to you. I 100% lost the head and defaulted to behaviour which more closely resembled that of my teenage years.

I'm glad I was wrong, but I had to know the truth of it. I hope you understand that much. Words are cheap though and I knew from the start there would be a price to be paid for all this so I guess its time to say good bye and thanks for the fish. I'll leave it up to the administrators to decided down the road if I'm welcome back once this has died down.

Adieu.

Hobart

Boston wrote: »

I accept the follow.

1) Ross didn't search them
2) Conor didn't search them
3) DeVore never authorised them to.
4) What was said was completely misinterpreted.

I never read the thread you're quoting. I made the accusations via pm to you on the 10th of the month, and made it clear I intended to put them in the public domain if the matter wasn't resolved. Even a "fuk you boston, it never happened", would have been enough. You choose silence. Which I guess was fair enough, you owed me no reply.

I'm genuinely sorry for accusing you as it has become apparent your stance is the opposite of what I'd taken to be the case. I also shouldn't have said many of the things I did via private message to you. I 100% lost the head and defaulted to behaviour which more closely resembled that of my teenage years.

I'm glad I was wrong, but I had to know the truth of it. I hope you understand that much. Words are cheap though and I knew from the start there would be a price to be paid for all this so I guess its time to say good bye and thanks for the fish. I'll leave it up to the administrators to decided down the road if I'm welcome back once this has died down.

Adieu.

Lol...C Ya...

Beruthiel

Hobart, not helpful.

Boston wrote: »

I'll leave it up to the administrators to decided down the road if I'm welcome back once this has died down.

You're not sitebanned so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Hobart

Beruthiel wrote: »

Hobart, not helpful.

That's fair enough Ber..I apologise. I should have said, that I cannot believe that so much of peoples time has been taken up with this particular user, and his obvious disillusions of paranoia. His amateurish trolling (intended or not) and I feel that this thread is typical of his ability to lash out accusations, when so obviously and totally in the wrong. I also think that most other users who acted in his manner, would have been banned long since. If he goes, good riddance, the place will be better without him tbh.

That's my feedback .

DeVore

Boston, I have torn my freakin' hair out at times because of you. You have insulted people who you had no right to insult, Dav and myself specifically. Then you wonder why people wont respond to abusive PMs??

There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER that I or Dav should respond to a pm which spent paragraphs abusing me, calling my integrity into question, direct insults, maligning everything I have worked for here and involving yourself in a personal relationship which does NOT involve you, has nothing to do with you and is quite frankling ABSOLUTELY none of your business.

Then you wonder why people are annoyed with you.

Whats funny is that throughout this people have said the same thing "Boston can be a good guy and in person he's fine but he can be a real knob online". <paraphrased>

You know what, you are a really smart guy, you have some really good ideas for community and you are bang on target about a few things I have already been working on myself. But when you start banging your "fight the power" drum, it makes it impossible to hear you.

Quite literally, imagine if you walked down the road and put your fists up to everyone you met, most of them would put their fists back up. Then you would be saying "oh, everyone wants to fight me... poor me".

Stop fighting everyone Boston. Take a break and stop fighting the world.

The real Boston, the one who is helpful, the one who is rational and even at times contentious is always welcome here.

The one who likes to fight, sling accusations and attack first... that one can fnck right off.

DeV.

Dudess

Hobart wrote: »

That's fair enough Ber..I apologise. I should have said, that I cannot believe that so much of peoples time has been taken up with this particular user, and his obvious disillusions of paranoia. His amateurish trolling (intended or not) and I feel that this thread is typical of his ability to lash out accusations, when so obviously and totally in the wrong. I also think that most other users who acted in his manner, would have been banned long since. If he goes, good riddance, the place will be better without him tbh.

+ a zillion.

DeVore wrote: »

Boston, I have torn my freakin' hair out at times because of you. You have insulted people who you had no right to insult, Dav and myself specifically. Then you wonder why people wont respond to abusive PMs??

There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER that I or Dav should respond to a pm which spent paragraphs abusing me, calling my integrity into question, direct insults, maligning everything I have worked for here and involving yourself in a personal relationship which does NOT involve you, has nothing to do with you and is quite frankling ABSOLUTELY none of your business.

****ing hell DeVore, how come I or anyone else would get a site-ban for that nonsense? The preferential treatment of Boston in general (yes, he finally got reprimanded recently - it was a heck of a long time coming and it took a heck of a lot of flagging for it to happen) whose persona here is that of an out-and-out bully, and the sycophancy and tiptoe-ing around him on this thread, and the "oh I understand, honey, but you shouldn't be so cross " bullsh1t leaves me equally baffled, amused and annoyed (much as it shouldn't) because anybody else carrying on in the same manner would be sneered at - and possibly banned.
This thread is yet another example of the hilarious irony of Boston feeling hard done by.
And the non stop "I know you're lovely in real life" disclaimer - some of it I'd wager from people who've never even met him, to keep in line with those who do know him personally (good god, it looks pitifully spineless)... a person's real-life character should have no bearing whatsoever on their conduct here.

The bias could not be more blatant. It's actually laughable. And this post isn't because I have been on the receiving end of his venom - I'm not the only one, by a long shot. And it bears repeating: what he got away with on the poker thread here was a disgrace.

I fully expect to receive an abusive PM from Boston if he reads this, for which he will receive no sanction.

dr.bollocko

Maybe this thread should be split once more. I have more than a feeling that the future of boards.ie debate is a more intriguing one to most posters than the future of Boston debate.

Beruthiel

Indeed dr. b.

Lets get back on topic people.

DeVore

Ironically Dr. B. I had been asked by the directors of Board (that company that RB loves so much to abuse for being "anti community") to devise some way of building a system without a "benevolent dictator" at the top of it and with more checks and balances.

Dudess, I'm not in the "pound of flesh" business either... I've made it clear Boston needs to MASSIVELY rethink how he interacts with people both here in Feedback where he has been feet first into a few debacles that were made worse for his involvement and and on the wider Boards site where he has been sarcastic and nasty to some people.

I'd point out that its me who has been malaligned here....who has been abused in public and private in this instance. Why am I even offering this olive branch when "anyone else" would have been kicked? Because not anyone else would have been kicked. Also because Boston has potential and some of his (non-bonkers) points are good and deserve an answer.

But not the way they have been delivered recently, not that Boston. I'm not having him any more. Its grow-the-fnck-up time.



DeV

DeVore

Ruthie, lets leave this die out and restart a positive thread in a few days. I actually have a great deal I need to talk to people about on this topic.

DeV.

Dudess

DeVore, I appreciate that all this bull**** thrown at you (not just from Boston - several others) must get very difficult to deal with - I'd be out the door. I hope it never comes to that as you're very fair and reasonable. And I didn't mean to seem so ratty with you on that last post. Sorry for my tone.

My 2 cents: I personally think people need to chill the fuk out when it comes to the politics of Boards and just enjoy it for what it is - a great, diverse site with some great people. See anything you don't like? Just move along and find something you do like. And you will.

5starpool

Dudess wrote: »

My 2 cents: I personally think people need to chill the fuk out when it comes to the politics of Boards and just enjoy it for what it is - a great, diverse site with some great people. See anything you don't like? Just move along and find something you do like. And you will.

Absolutely. People leaving because it is too commercial? Please. If you don't like the commercial reps thing, don't visit their forums. If they post anywhere else they are a normal user.

Everyones boards experience is different. My boards experience is vastly different to that of dudess, and vastly different again to Dr Bollocko or Thaedydal. All the 'disillusion' is not due to boards taking a deliberate different direction, but probably due to the direction that the areas that person frequents is driven by the user base. The commercial side is cordoned off and you have no need to visit those areas if you don't want to (and I never have, although I would if it was of benefit to me). If these areas that have no impact on me allow boards to emply the people it does and upgrade it's infrastructure, then great. Using that as an excuse for being disillusioned with something that is mostly user content controlled is just wanting a stick to beat the admins with, which I feel is frankly unfair.

I think that was on topic, but it's hard to tell really.

DeVore

Thanks Dudess.... that how I feel too. Do I kinda wish people would give me a bit more slack and let me do what I've been doing for coming up on 10 years.


DeV.

dr.bollocko

I don't think I ever said I was disillusioned with boards or the direction it was going. I thought I was providing an argument for the other side TBH. FWIW I wouldn't want to see a boards without the buck stopping with somebody and DeV has always done quite well at being that person in the past.

Rev Hellfire

DeVore wrote: »

Thanks Dudess.... that how I feel too. Do I kinda wish people would give me a bit more slack and let me do what I've been doing for coming up on 10 years.

Someone needs a hug, but I'd like to stress I'm not offering.

tbh looking at the whole hoohaa that's going on it strikes me as similarto the growing pains the 'old school' experienced when boards moved from targeted to a gaming community to one which catered for a wider audience and changed to reflect that.

I'm of the opinion that things are moving pretty much as you would expect as the site becomes more professional in image and management. People need to understand that for the site to work with the attention it receives nowadays thats the way it needs to be.

Though if I was to suggest one thing it would be that admins as individuals become less involved (while wearing their admin hat that is) in moderation.
I'd even go as far as say that the admin title (but not privileges) should be removed and replaced with a standard moderator one, with all dictates on matters which have been escalated past moderators coming from a single 'official' mouthpiece.

Really they (as admins) should be more transparent to the running of the site imho.

DeVore

I disagree about the idea of a single account but I do agree with the idea of transparency in general and also some form of cross checking and self-correction for the community.

I definitely agree with what you are saying about the natural progression of the site. This is was and will be where we are heading. I have always wanted a platform for everyone, just I want it on our rules, our way.

In the next few days I will start a broad discussion about the future approach to board "hierarchy" which will be away from Feedback but open to all to contribute POSITIVELY. This is something I've been working on for some time but havent yet boiled down into solid thinking yet so if people have input then great, I'm open to it.

DeV.

tbh

DeVore wrote: »

This is something I've been working on for some time but havent yet boiled down into solid thinking yet so if people have input then great, I'm open to it.

DeV.

people have either positive or negative expectations about how you're going to get exactly what you want, exactly how you want it. It seems unlikely that you'll get that 100%, so you'll either have to compromise what you want, or how you want it. People use their own personal experiences to judge which of the two will happen, and how much of it, and you're just going to have to accept that you can't influence that. And - by the way - you shouldn't try. Anyway, You know I've had worries about all the commercial stuff, but you and Darragh and Dav just explained what was going to happen, and, crucially, you've followed through on all of those things. You could have promised me until ye were blue in the face that that was going to happen, but, much as I respect you, I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it for myself. that's just life.

So, how about you have a thread, in helpdesk if you like, where people can express what it is they are worried will happen. No retorts, no jugements, no rebuttals and no admin comment. Everybody gets one post with no fear of infractions, bannings or repriasals - anything way past the pale could simply not be approved.

You could then address anything you wanted in your newsletter, and it might give you an idea as to where you guys need to do more good old fashioned communicatin'

I'll give you a for example:

I'm worried that boards is trying too hard to be bigger than it's boots. I'm worried that by making it more popular, there's a bigger concentration of posters for whom boards has no value, and that in turns dilutes the content and experience for those of us who do value it.

maybe I should have put this in a pm

Rev Hellfire

DeVore wrote: »

I disagree about the idea of a single account

Perhaps account was an ill choice of words, more an official spokes person for when the admin cabal speak.

Perhaps its me, but sometimes its difficult to distinguish between an admin making a statement as a "super moderator" or a statement an 'admin'.

Which gives rise at times to inconsistency at the top ( a false perception perhaps), they're all active posters with differing opinions (which is what you would expect for a group). The 'admin' statements can perhaps get drowned out in the general posting they do.

Not saying I've a solution mind you, just throwing thoughts out to get kicked about.

5starpool

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I don't think I ever said I was disillusioned with boards or the direction it was going. I thought I was providing an argument for the other side TBH. FWIW I wouldn't want to see a boards without the buck stopping with somebody and DeV has always done quite well at being that person in the past.

I wasn't referring to you about that at all Dr B, I was just using you as an example of a poster who has a different boards usage experience to me, that's all.

dr.bollocko

5starpool wrote: »

I wasn't referring to you about that at all Dr B, I was just using you as an example of a poster who has a different boards usage experience to me, that's all.

BuffyBot

Perhaps its me, but sometimes its difficult to distinguish between an admin making a statement as a "super moderator" or a statement an 'admin'.

The Admins speak (unless they say otherwise) as Admins: there are no "super moderators" anymore. Personally, I can't tell how a "statement" is percieved, and no one but the person hearing it can, but it's been made pretty clear previously that in terms of the Admins, there are no "lesser" or "higher" types - just different kinds, doing different things. Over time that perception might fade. I hope so

The image of DeV being the pinnacle of a triangle or on the top of a totem will always live on in the "old school" boardsie's because that's how it was for quite some time. However, for the majority of newer users, they wouldn't know DeV of they ran over him repeatedly on the street. They wouldn't know which Admin is which, and it most likely doesn't matter to them one jot. That's no bad thing. The reality of it now is that us "non-DeV's" have just as much voice in how things are run - and equally we share the weight when things go wrong. The day-to-day running of the site, and how things are done, is shared by all of us. There isn't any disparity in that respect, and hopefully most people will never see it that way.

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

Thanks Dudess.... that how I feel too. Do I kinda wish people would give me a bit more slack and let me do what I've been doing for coming up on 10 years.


DeV.

If it makes you feel any better im in the middle of a painstaking process of sculpting a replica of your head out of a bar of soap while i shower.

I reckon it will generate a nice tidy sum once auctioned for SSF.


Ive always been rather confused as to the reason for the number of Administrators. I always assumed the Admin was somewhat like the Managing director of a site and therefore only be one. I understand its a big site and different admins have different responsibilities. I would have felt that "supervisor" was a better title?? Anyhow, titles are merely names.. its what one does is more important, and i suppose recognition of their responsibility and work done by title is the least one can do, so if the title of "Admin" is the shoe that best fits, i cant disagree.

Rev Hellfire

BuffyBot wrote: »

The image of DeV being the pinnacle of a triangle or on the top of a totem will always live on in the "old school" boardsie's because that's how it was for quite some time.

But that's the point, where as before we had this idea of an ultimate authority, now we have a committee.

This has in my view created a situation where the perception is that 'admin' decisions are made on the spot by someone and then the other admins get accused of just toeing the line because you all want to show a united front.

It would be nice to be able to identify postings where its clear the admins as a group have come to a collective agreement, rather than ones where its the first one in to address something dictates the response (to serious sitewide related matters).

After all there's a difference between setting site wide policies and conventions as opposed to the general moderation tasks you as "admins" do in forums like feedback, helpdesk, etc and the other tasks like sitebans the smods did.

At least thats how I see it.

Trojan

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

It would be nice to be able to identify postings where its clear the admins as a group have come to a collective agreement, rather than ones where its the first one in to address something dictates the response (to serious sitewide related matters).

No postings are made on serious sitewide related matters (where a decision has to be made on the matter) without some admin discussion happening, normally quite a lot of discussion in fact. You'll normally see an admin say "in my opinion as a boards user" or "with my admin hat off" when we're just giving our own personal opinion on an issue. I.e. just like it says on the tin.

First person to address issues is normally for individual, once-off issues which don't have any knock-on effect on policy or large numbers of users/forums.

Rev Hellfire

Trojan wrote: »

No postings are made on serious sitewide related matters without some admin discussion happening, normally quite a lot (which y'all have taken us to task over).

I understand that, but its perception we're talking about. But tbh it doesn't bother me much one way or the other. I might understand that, but I feel others don't. But sure we'll leave it at that, some of us have early starts

Wibbs

Dudess wrote: »

how come I or anyone else would get a site-ban for that nonsense? The preferential treatment of Boston in general (yes, he finally got reprimanded recently - it was a heck of a long time coming and it took a heck of a lot of flagging for it to happen)

This has been my issue too all along. Not Boston, but bias towards him. People have been banned and given the cold shoulder on forums and the site for far less. I dont have an issue with him, he's been given leeway and he ran with it.

The bias could not be more blatant. It's actually laughable. And this post isn't because I have been on the receiving end of his venom - I'm not the only one, by a long shot. And it bears repeating: what he got away with on the poker thread here was a disgrace.

Yep it was. Frankly the simple everyday modding of that was crap, never mind from admins who are supposed to know what's what and supposed to have some modicum of impartiality. And because I know they know how to mod bloody well it looked like bias and using Boston as a mouthpiece, because they couldn't say it themselves(not fair on him either BTW if true) Ive banned people I liked when they stepped over the line. I've been banned by people I like and get on with when I stepped over the line. He stepped over the line so many times, yet wasn't. Early days I figured at the time, but it's still going on.

TBH that thread made me question some of the background guff hereabouts and also some admins/mods abilities. Never once before that date did I get involved in a "political" thread. I just did my modding. It frankly píssed me right off. I lost confidence in a structure that would back up a mod or a user in the face of an "old hat" who people know, or some little clique that figured they knew better. People say Boards is changing and it is, very much so, but it'll founder quick enough if the old way of doing things try to run the new.

IMHO feedback needs more fresh blood as mods. Whether that be from the existing mods or the general user base. Needs thanks back too. People who couldn't be arsed posting could at least flag approval and give a better gauge of peoples feelings on a matter. This thread would be a very interesting one if thanks were available.

I fully expect to receive an abusive PM from Boston if he reads this, for which he will receive no sanction.

Actually I wouldn't TBH. As I say I have little issue with Boston he's a good poster. I've read and enjoyed many a post of his. Likable chap too the more I read of him. I also prefer people who will stand up and be counted, even if they're being knobs at times. He's not a sheep that's for damn sure.

That for me is not the issue. It's also very relevant to the future of boards. There's a lack of consistency among those charged with being consistent or at least aiming to be.

seamus wrote:

5starpool pretty much alludes to the issue in this case. While a public "trial" is all well and good (and I recognise the benefit it would do for the community), boards is unfortunately not in possession of its own legally-recognised court, so needs to be very very careful in regards to Data protection and defamation.

Very true, good point and I do get that. Though there's some "proof". At least enough to put words in shelllike or ask people to leave. Boston knows who these muppets are. Others know who these muppets are too. Sometimes it's a case publish and bedamned. Or at least simply remove their access. People are always going on how this is a private site and as such is run accordingly. You don't have free speech(which we dont in Ireland anyway) and posting here is essentially allowed under certain conditions. Mods accuse and ban spammers everyday. Mods accuse people of muppetry to varying degrees and infract, ban, permaban and siteban people every single day. For a lot less than the smell this is causing in some quarters.

DeVore wrote:

Dudess, I'm not in the "pound of flesh" business either... I've made it clear Boston needs to MASSIVELY rethink how he interacts with people both here in Feedback where he has been feet first into a few debacles that were made worse for his involvement and and on the wider Boards site where he has been sarcastic and nasty to some people.

No you're not in the pound of flesh biz. Not at all(actually to a fault at times). That much I am sure of and I'll be honest, one of the reasons I have faith in the direction of this place as a conduit for community is you and a few others at the sharp end.

tbh wrote:

people have either positive or negative expectations about how you're going to get exactly what you want, exactly how you want it. It seems unlikely that you'll get that 100%, so you'll either have to compromise what you want, or how you want it. People use their own personal experiences to judge which of the two will happen, and how much of it, and you're just going to have to accept that you can't influence that. And - by the way - you shouldn't try. Anyway, You know I've had worries about all the commercial stuff, but you and Darragh and Dav just explained what was going to happen, and, crucially, you've followed through on all of those things. You could have promised me until ye were blue in the face that that was going to happen, but, much as I respect you, I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it for myself. that's just life.

So, how about you have a thread, in helpdesk if you like, where people can express what it is they are worried will happen. No retorts, no jugements, no rebuttals and no admin comment. Everybody gets one post with no fear of infractions, bannings or repriasals - anything way past the pale could simply not be approved.

You could then address anything you wanted in your newsletter, and it might give you an idea as to where you guys need to do more good old fashioned communicatin'

I'll give you a for example:

I'm worried that boards is trying too hard to be bigger than it's boots. I'm worried that by making it more popular, there's a bigger concentration of posters for whom boards has no value, and that in turns dilutes the content and experience for those of us who do value it.

Good post as per usual. +1

The Admins speak (unless they say otherwise) as Admins: there are no "super moderators" anymore.

True, but I've been open in the past that it's my opinion theres far too many of the former and not enough of the latter. That's just me though so meh.

Personally, I can't tell how a "statement" is percieved, and no one but the person hearing it can, but it's been made pretty clear previously that in terms of the Admins, there are no "lesser" or "higher" types - just different kinds, doing different things. Over time that perception might fade. I hope so

I hope so too, but it'll have to be earned by results, just like a new mod and some will shine and some will fall by the wayside. Just because someone is made a mod, even a great and consistent poster, time tells whether they're cut out for it or not. Same with the admin title. Just saying its this way or that doesn't really cut it unless heavy handed tactics are the order of the day.

As for not being able to tell how a statement is being perceived. With respect that's somewhat of a copout. It's too close to the idea of "people either get it or they don't, not our issue really. It is what it is". You should have a good idea at least how it will be perceived by others, or rewrite the statement better and more clearly, more to the point back it up more. This goes double for a group effort. TBH I suspect I have the wrong end of the stick there though with you of all people. So ignore as appropriate.:o:)

The image of DeV being the pinnacle of a triangle or on the top of a totem will always live on in the "old school" boardsie's because that's how it was for quite some time.

Yes and no. While I agree that was how it was, the main reason I and I know others stlll see him as the pinnacle is in every lurch since the new admins came on stream he's simply had to be. And there've been too many lurches since then too.

Step back and look at this very thread. Who's acting the most like an "admin"? Who is being the most honest and human about their feelings? Who is looking for a solution? Who is the most in "command" for want of a better word and moving things forward? Their username starts with a D and ends with an O*. As a group you don't share the weight, your voice is lesser in actual reality/results in many cases beyond what most, if not all were doing bloody well as smods(and that loss is felt IMHO) and frankly on much evidence so far it would worry me about this site if many of the admins did. IMHO some aren't up to it. It's a different mindset. Little to do with the committee thing either.



Feck off Bollocko:D

_blank_

I'm reading this thread, but am way too busy to contribute, I'd like a way to easily show opinion with which I agree.

Earthhorse

This thread has really gone off topics so I just wanted to say...

DeVore wrote: »

In the next few days I will start a broad discussion about the future approach to board "hierarchy" which will be away from Feedback but open to all to contribute POSITIVELY. This is something I've been working on for some time but havent yet boiled down into solid thinking yet so if people have input then great, I'm open to it.

I look forward to this.