Gamers Unite! We're being screwed!

Steffano2002

Gaming Community - We need to make a stand!

Have you seen the latest news regarding Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2? Infinity Ward / Activision have decided to sell us out and banned the use of dedicated servers! :eek: :mad:

Why is this a bad thing? Have a look at me next post! It's a disgrace!

Sure these bad news about MW2 are only really affecting PC Gamers but I think we should all get together to fight this stupid, money-hungry, capitalist decision IW / Activision made!

This decision will decimate the CoD PC Community! And the only reason this decision was made is to make more money off us!

If it wasn't for us, IW wouldn't be where they are today. Who went out and bought CoD1, CoD:UO and CoD2? WE DID! And we're being sold out! I guess making millions isn't enough anymore... They want to generate billions now! :mad:

The worst thing about this is that if people go out and buy the game, other game developers will want to do the same to force people to spend more on map packs and such and such... This is bad for gaming in general!

When is it going to end? When we all have to pay a monthly fee to play online? I, for one, think it's unacceptable!

Please make sure you and your mates all sign this petition! (Thank you in advance!) There are already over 45,000 sigs!

And how do we stick together and fight this stupid decision? Well it's simple: we don't buy the game and we tell everybody we know not to buy it either! And it would be nice to all take a stand and have gamers not buy the game on console either!

So Cancel your pre-ordered copy of MW2 and Don't buy the game when it's released! Gamers Unite!

Steffano2002

Why no MW2 Dedicated servers is bad

So why is this article needed? It is needed because the PC community needs valid reasons to present to IW and the console community as to why we need dedicated server functionality.

Latency
Dedicated servers are usually always provided by big game hosting companies, with massive bandwidth DSL connections. They have direct access to the internet backbone providing upload speeds in excess of 100 MBits/s. Now lets scale that back to the average user, lowest tier access to the internet with low priority connection, upload speed generally around 0.5-1.0 MBits/s. I don't know about you but that is not at all good when compared to what game server hosts provide, a 99% reduction in bandwidth. I realise this won't result in a 100 times worse connection, but it will definitly increase ping, if you are in the same state or country you will likely get a ping of 100-250 milliseconds, different state or country? 250-1000 milliseconds seems about right. This would result in awful hit registration and lag. This alone would make competitive play extremely difficult and public play very unpleasant.

Host drop out
The host of the game leaves for whatever reason, and so bang goes the game. I know IW will likely put in some feature that makes another player in the game a host, but this will most likely be not very good and may not work all the time, and in the best scenario would result in a delay in play. This is unacceptable, it disrupts and destroys gameplay and would destroy competitive play. Unless you have a poor server, the game will always be on with no disruptions.

Performance
This links in with Latency and host drop out. Big server companies pay lots of money for specialist server and networking equipment, and their sole purpose is to provide a server for you. The server they give you has one purpose alone, to host games, not host games and play them at the same time and whatever else goes on in the average PC. This will affect gameplay, if the host cannot handle hosting the game either due to poor hardware and/or poor connection, the whole game will lag (don't believe me? go play a company of heroes game against a 1 bar performance person), also RTS experience has shown that you don't even need a dodgy host to lag the game, all you need is someone with a PC that has a poor spec and it ruins the game for everyone.

No community
How can there be a community if there is no central point to access a game. It has been revealed there will be no server browser, and as there are no servers there will be no IP addresses to give out. So how can you advertise a game/match to the general public to play? Like on a clan website or whatever. And once the host is gone, the game ends, so you can't invite people to the same match again or keep it running. Whereas with a dedicated server you can advertise the IP, and people can come and go as they please, and you can create a community of gamers around that server. You cannot have regulars to a match if it ends when everyone leaves.

Lack of control
You most definitly won't be able to customise a match like you can with a dedicated server, so you will lose a lot of control. You won't be able to ban people, kicking you may be able to but it won't be the same either way. You also won't be able to get the gameplay exactly how you like it as there will be no config files, no more server cvars, no more mods, no more maps, basically no third party stuff at all. Competitive gameplay can forget it, as there most likely won't be enough configuration options available, and competition mods like promod just won't be able to exist.

No Mods, maps, hence no modding community
You won't be able to use third party maps or mods as there are no dedicated servers to put them onto. No competitive mods, no competitive gaming. Can't install mods? Then there will be no point in making them anymore so a whole group of people just die out.

No scrims/competitive matches
As there is no server browser, or IP address to give out, how do you advertise your server in general to strangers who are not on your friends list? You can't, it will be very awkward to add somebody to your friends list so you can invite them to a server if they a stranger, this means getting scrims/matchs over IRC will become impossible: not everyone will want to advertise their ingame name or have people adding them as friends just to play a match, there are no server IPs so advertising for a match will require some creative thinking. Basically it will become such a big farse to get a scrim it will become impossible.

Destruction of server ecosystem
This is more of a business and financial point, which can make it even more important. No dedicated servers = No server hosting companies. There are lots of games still out there that use dedicated servers, but big releases bring in lots of money for these companies, so they will lose a lot of business and hence money, this will affect everybody, not just CoD players. If server companies go bust because of this every PC gamer will suffer, CoD fan or not. Also dedicated servers are the foundation of many gaming communities, without servers, they become pointless. Even more money will be lost because of this, as there is no central way of joining up in a match without a server IP for strangers/general public (remember matches are not 24/7 like game servers), these communities will just disappear.

VAC is bad - Cheating
I know punkbuster is extremely annoying, but it is simply better at catching cheaters than VAC. Just look at the Counter Strike games for an example, it is extremely easy to get away with cheating when using VAC. Cheating destroys the gaming experience for everyone and makes the game not worth playing.

Matchmaking
As there is no server browser, you can no longer choose which match to play on. The game chooses for you, whether you like the match it connects you to or not is tough, as you cannot browse directly for a game you like. Sure there will most likely be filters, but the experience is diminished, and it will be a farse waiting for the matchmaker to find, and then connect you to a game. Also mentioned in the fateful interview, is that you will be paired up with people of the same rank. Rank is not an indicator of skill, any n00b can rank up to level 55 without any skill at all. You won't be able to choose who you play with/against, and you won't be able to judge their skill on their rank.

No more big games
You won't be able to have big games without a dedicated server because of the Latency and performance issues mentioned above. The average person's connection just won't be able to handle it, even small games will suffer without the bandwidth of a dedicated server company.

No competitive gaming
Competitive gaming has been mentioned throughout this posting so for additional reasons you should have read this article better. As there is no competitive gaming there will be no more clans or gaming communities as we know it, simply because competitive gaming relies on dedicated servers in almost every aspect. Without a dedicated server you will not be able to customise the match as greatly as you would with a server, IW will most likely not create a competitive gaming mode (why would they? If they did they would'nt have removed dedicated servers in the first place), no server browser or server IPs would make it very hard for strangers to get into the match, there will be no spectating or CoDTV so there will be limited coverage of major gaming events, cheating would be massive anyway as VAC is a poor anti-cheat solution so why bother playing competitivly? As there can be no server mods for obvious reasons, gameplay cannot be changed in the way that promod can change it, for the better, another reduction of control.

Symptom of a larger problem
All in all, the removal of dedicated servers is the symptom of a much larger problem: lack of support for the PC platform. By removing dedicated servers IW is making the PC experience more like the console experience is nearly everyway. If I wanted a console experience I would have brought a console, not a gaming PC. There is no reason for the PC gaming platform to exist if there are no differences between the console version of the game and the PC version, sure you have the keyboard and mouse, but that is all you have that is unique and special about the PC now. MW2 is basically just a straight console port, with most of the effort going into the console version of the game (Proof: the map packs came out on console before PC, so more effort is going into console), this results in a lesser experience for PC users, and also more issues later on, like bugs (they still havn't fixed the bugs in CoD4), and as we are a forgotton platform we will not recieve a patch until much later than the consoles receive one. The lack of support for the PC is growing, and the actions by IW may affect every new PC game devoloped by Activision, and even the industry in general. This trend needs to be reversed fast, or the day's of playing games on the PC may be numbered.

L31mr0d

Wait, so let me get this straight, it isn't just that IW aren't providing their own Hosted Servers but they are actually not going to have the net code in the game to allow clans to rent servers or people at LANs to set up their own boxes as dedicated servers?

How will this work at competitive LANs?

Kinetic^

L31mr0d wrote: »

Wait, so let me get this straight, it isn't just that IW aren't providing their own Hosted Servers but they are actually not going to have the net code in the game to allow clans to rent servers or people at LANs to set up their own boxes as dedicated servers?

Exactly.

L31mr0d wrote: »

How will this work at competitive LANs?

It won't!

Hercule

The CoD franchise will die on PC if this is allowed to occur - 4000 cancelled pre-orders and 40k+ signatures to a petition within 24 hours will at least give the twats in Infinity **** something "difficult" to explain to their shareholders - perhaps invoke a "rethink" of their horrendous business strategy.

I am readily encouraging all PC gamers i know to NOT purchase the game at launch (or at all) if these issues are not addressed - in the past our community action was to turn our servers off - guess theres no chance of us doing that now :mad:

I bet EA/Treyarch are laughing their asses off - it makes their previous mistakes with their major franchises look like mild blips in comparison .

It is worth bumping this thread to an announcement or a sticky - drum up a bit of support while there is still time

MooseJam

what do IW get out of no dedictad servers

nix

I gave up on CoD a long time ago, its a **** game tbh.

I thought CoD was an EA game though ?

However i will support your cause by not purchasing the game :P

But seriously... what are they thinking?

Its ment to be a team based game, yet they are cutting all aspects of team work out of it? This is making my head hurt..:(

Steffano2002

MooseJam wrote: »

what do IW get out of no dedictad servers

More ca$h. It will be like console gaming. You connect to a server but you won't have the map being played until you buy the map pack for €10 or €15 EUR. It's all a scam! A blatant scam! :mad:

Competitive gaming won't be possible and as a result the people who made IW the mutli-million dollar company it is today are being screwed...

I would like to think that Activision is behind all this and not IW...

Steffano2002

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Wow... Nerd rage is an ugly thing.

Being ripped off is an ugly thing... Nobody expects you to understand that though...

Hercule

MooseJam wrote: »

what do IW get out of no dedictad servers

They get several things which I imagine are quite lucrative - some people are hypthesizing that they are trying to alienate the PC community into purchasing the console versions - I am unsure of that.

With this "IWnet" system they are promoting they can:

1. Have complete creative control over their IP - similiar to how valve dictate decisions with CSS/TF2/Left4dead -it will allow them to stream patches in drip feed. - this on the surface you would imagine is good for the community - however as mentioned before this stifles the chance of a modding or competitive scen.

2. With this system they can setup a "Premium Service" business model which will allow them to charge PC users for DLC packs

3. They will have complete control over pirate copies playing multiplayer - unlike in the past there will be no "cracked" servers that allow pirated copies to enjoy the multiplayer experience.

All of these features = more $$$ for IW

They are thinly veiling this decision under "we are trying to make the PC version more accessible" when in reality they are restricting the versatility that the PC version has enjoyed.

It is no secret that IW would prefer to make only an xbox version of the game - they seem to have lost touch with where the PC community is at and what they need - if I wanted a console game I buy a console - PC gamers are a demanding bunch, we demand a higher standard of game then the average console gamer - its frustrating to see how a company has lost touch like this.

Tyrant^

every company is the same ! maximise profits ! more profits ! "but but the consumer doesnt like..." "DONT CARE !! Projected maximised profitzzzzz, I NEED EPIC CAR AND EPIC HOUSE GIEFFFFF"

Steffano2002

Great analysis there Hercule!

Steffano2002

Tyrant^ wrote: »

every company is the same ! maximise profits ! more profits ! "but but the consumer doesnt like..." "DONT CARE !! Projected maximised profitzzzzz, I NEED EPIC CAR AND EPIC HOUSE GIEFFFFF"

I'm afraid you're right there Tyrant... It seems they don't mind screwing us to make more $$$...

I know quite a few people out there play online "illegally" but what about the people, like myself, who went out and bought all the versions of the game? It seems they just don't care... W@nkers... :mad:

L31mr0d

Hercule wrote: »

3. They will have complete control over pirate copies playing multiplayer

No they won't. Playing online with pirated copies of games does not require cracked servers. For the pirates it will be business as usual.

In fact IW are levelling the playing field. By removing the premium dedicated servers there is now no benefit to getting the legitimate version of the game over the pirated one. You're going to be getting the same online experience with Hamachi as you would with this p2p framework, only all the map packs and DLC will be free.

Steffano2002

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I just pirate my games. I'm sticking it to the industry in my own way.

Ban FTW

Canis Lupus

Steffano2002 wrote: »

Ban FTW

Oh dear I see you're right. Oh well... Such is life.

EDIT: ah tis an infraction. Phew. Was worried I'd have to log out to see how your rant went.

Steffano2002

hooradiation wrote: »

Given that the PC community are in general a bunch of tantrum prone primadonnas with a proclivity towards theft, I don't fucking blame them.

Wow! And you had to create a new login to say this? Fair play! :rolleyes:

hooradiation

Everyone has to start somewhere.

But lets not dwell on what i can actually said when we can instead speculate on when and why i joined, because as we all know the only thing that matters on the internets is your post count.

Liamario

Firstly, all these changes being made are obviously there to help Activision make more money. On saying that, I am really struggling to feel any sympathy for PC gamers in relation to this. The main reason being that the things you are complaining about are the things console owners have been experiencing since...forever. For example, console owners have to pay for DLC and now you expect us to sympathise with you because now you have to as well?!

Hercule

Given that the PC community are in general a bunch of tantrum prone primadonnas with a proclivity towards theft, I don't ****ing blame them.

Welcome to boards.ie - if you dont understand the issue kindly fúck off with your unwarranted prejudices - its not how forums work.

It can be argued that by making piracy so prevalent that "we (PC gamers) brought this on ourselves" - but nobody likes a troll

@ Leimrod Cod1/UO/2/4/W@W cannot be played multiplayer without cracked/no PB servers - in the piracy arms race pirates always had one-up on punkbuster - I dont see them beating the steam/VAC system to allow non-legit copies of the game play multiplayer very easily - steam is one of if not the best DRM there is for games

@Liamario - i agree with you regards DLC - I dont mind paying for it provided we get it at the same time as the console at the same price - this is only however one of the smaller issues related to this lack of dedicated servers.

Krieg

Im not raging, but im certainly not going to purchase if this plan goes ahead. Im a tad reluctant to cancel my order because with all the backlash from the community I think they are going to have to give in. Although its probably too late at this stage for them to correct the problem.

Petition signed.

(its at 49'300 signatures now)

L31mr0d

Hercule wrote: »

@ Leimrod Cod1/UO/2/4/W@W cannot be played multiplayer without cracked/no PB servers

Yes they can. If a game has the net code to allow for LAN play offline then those games can be played over the internet using that same feature.

Leprachaun

Just play it on xbox,problem solved.

Steffano2002

hooradiation wrote: »

Everyone has to start somewhere.

But lets not dwell on what i can actually said when we can instead speculate on when and why i joined, because as we all know the only thing that matters on the internets is your post count.

All I ask is why didn't you use your real boards.ie login to say this?

Don't generalise about PC Gamers either. I buy my games in the shop like console gamers.

Steffano2002

Leprachaun wrote: »

Just play it on xbox,problem solved.

Never. (I don't want this thread to finish as a "gamepad vs. keyboard & mouse" thread).

Liamario

Leprachaun wrote: »

Just play it on xbox,problem solved.

But thats the thing my little mystical friend, the PC gamers who are complaining really don't have anything to complain about. They can be disappointed alright, but they can't really complain

hooradiation

Hercule wrote: »

Welcome to boards.ie - if you dont understand the issue kindly fúck off with your unwarranted prejudices - its not how forums work.

That's exactly how they work.

Just because i don't share your rage doesn't mean I'm trolling, "people in differing opinions shocker" and all that.

I'm finding it hard to have any sympathy for a community who have a large number of people that believe that piracy is an acceptable form of protest (or at least, claim to believe that).

Earlier you bemoaned that "they seem to have lost touch with where the PC community is at and what they need", i think it's more a case of the PC community being too much work for too little reward, and frankly, i can understand why the game is being targeted at a more financially rewarding market.


Ohh, and if anyone thinks this idea originated from within Infinity Ward then they need their head examined. I wager my immortal soul this came from Activision and being the publisher they call the shots.

Seifer

Liamario wrote: »

The main reason being that the things you are complaining about are the things console owners have been experiencing since...forever. For example, console owners have to pay for DLC and now you expect us to sympathise with you because now you have to as well?!

Who cares? No one forced you to buy a console.
Just because you went with an inferior option means everyone should be dragged down to that level?

hooradiation wrote:

Given that the PC community are in general a bunch of tantrum prone primadonnas with a proclivity towards theft, I don't ****ing blame them.

This is just blatantly made up.

Liamario

Seifer wrote: »

Who cares? No one forced you to buy a console.
Just because you went with an inferior option means everyone should be dragged down to that level?

Why are you trying to give me dig because I own an xbox? Don't you think that's a little childish. Perhaps you would be better off arguing the points which I made. You're not exactly garnering my sympathy with an attitude like that

Seifer

Liamario wrote: »

Why are you trying to give me dig because I own an xbox? Don't you think that's a little childish. Perhaps you would be better off arguing the points which I made. You're not exactly garnering my sympathy with an attitude like that

I did argue the points you made. I dismissed them as completely irrelevant because they are.
Your point was to bend over and take it because console buyers already do.

Liamario

Seifer wrote: »

I did argue the points you made. I dismissed them as completely irrelevant because they are.
Your point was to bend over and take it because console buyers already do.

No, that isn't my point. The OP asked for everyone to sign the petition, even console players. Why would I sympathise with PC players and sign the petition when they are complaining that they are being treated the same as the console players.

Just to make it clear, my point is that I have no sympathy for you- expecially when you consider that come launch day you will have your copy in your hand like most of the other petition signers.