Public sector told 'strike and pay will be docked'

bug

What I really find hilarious about these threads is that suddenly the public sector payroll is an obvious burden on the state. :eek:

This is new is it?

Yes, lets scream blue murder at public sector workers.
I'm not sure what they get but I'm sure its the same as dem foridners.

When the hospitals were in a state five years ago were people screaming as loudly as they are now?

In typical Oirish sheep stylee people are looking for someone to blame and... bah...bah... following the lines of IBEC and the government who have been hardening everyone against their own in preparation of whats to come.

The Irony is that if everyone had shouted as loudly five years ago we may have had time to reform the public service and end up with an actual service. This is a point sadly overlooked in every debate.

Now in panic button Ireland, we will end up with an even ****tier public service where the top level is either cut down or cut off with no viable plan to make other provisions.This possible in addition to cuts across pay in general. Reform doesnt happen in a day pay cuts do though.

Contrary to popular belief Public Servant creatures don't lead an isolated existance, some are even... married with families, and some have mortgages and are married to people who are from the right side of the fence. That being the unemployed private sector worker.

Hopefully the December budget, in addition to cuts and levies will have a death clause for existing public servants in it to satisfy everyone.

Then you can all get jobs in it and see what a party it is. yay!

Drumpot

bug wrote: »

What I really find hilarious about these threads is that suddenly the public sector payroll is an obvious burden on the state. :eek:

This is new is it?

Yes, lets scream blue murder at public sector workers.
I'm not sure what they get but I'm sure its the same as dem foridners.

When the hospitals were in a state five years ago were people screaming as loudly as they are now?

In typical Oirish sheep stylee people are looking for someone to blame and... bah...bah... following the lines of IBEC and the government who have been hardening everyone against their own in preparation of whats to come.

The Irony is that if everyone had shouted as loudly five years ago we may have had time to reform the public service and end up with an actual service. This is a point sadly overlooked in every debate.

Now in panic button Ireland, we will end up with an even ****tier public service where the top level is either cut down or cut off with no viable plan to make other provisions.This possible in addition to cuts across pay in general. Reform doesnt happen in a day pay cuts do though.

Contrary to popular belief Public Servant creatures don't lead an isolated existance, some are even... married with families, and some have mortgages and are married to people who are from the right side of the fence. That being the unemployed private sector worker.

Hopefully the December budget, in addition to cuts and levies will have a death clause for existing public servants in it to satisfy everyone.

Then you can all get jobs in it and see what a party it is. yay!

Again . .This feeling of being singled out and "attacked" is simply mindboggling . .

Public service wages account for a third of our nations budget . . Do you think it should be overlooked ?

I ask the question again . .

Where does our government make up €400million a week WITHOUT touching the public service ?

I have a young family. And yes, I resent it when public servants go on as if they are the only ones in the world feeling the pinch.

What do you think my private employer would say to me if I asked him for a pay rise (or not to reduce my pay) if i said to him I couldnt afford it?

ParkRunner

Drumpot wrote: »

How do we reduce a deficit of €400million a week without touching public service pay ?

Lets see what the government come up with:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/partnership.html

The public sector pay bill is being reduced primarily through natural wastage and the pension levy. Teachers are flying out the door

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/education1.html

There is a recruitment/promotion moratorium for over a year now, although only officially for about half a year.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=5723

Garda overtime has been cut (as well as their pay)

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/oct/04/fewer-garda-checkpoints-due-to-cutbacks/

Yet they are still coming up with the goods

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/donaghmede.html

Staff are being re-deployed to social welfare. I have no link but it is happening and these staff are not being replaced.
The public sector can't do all this on their own.

Social welfare has been left unchanged for long enough and there is room for a slight increase in corporation tax

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

Again . .This feeling of being singled out and "attacked" is simply mindboggling . .



I ask the question again . .

Where does our government make up €400million a week WITHOUT touching the public service ?

You ask how the public sector is being singled out. Then you single them out for savings.

Seriously, do you proof-read your posts before posting them?

Drumpot

EF wrote: »

Lets see what the government come up with:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/partnership.html

The public sector pay bill is being reduced primarily through natural wastage and the pension levy. Teachers are flying out the door

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/education1.html

There is a recruitment/promotion moratorium for over a year now, although only officially for about half a year.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=5723

Garda overtime has been cut (as well as their pay)

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/oct/04/fewer-garda-checkpoints-due-to-cutbacks/

Yet they are still coming up with the goods

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1020/donaghmede.html

Staff are being re-deployed to social welfare. I have no link but it is happening and these staff are not being replaced.
The public sector can't do all this on their own.

Social welfare has been left unchanged for long enough and there is room for a slight increase in corporation tax

Ok, so natural wastage so far (no redundancies) . Thats good and a start .

Remember €400 million a week now. Cant keep waiting for people to quit . .

A recruitment moratorium means that they arent hiring. Savings . . Yes . . Check . . Redundancys . . No

Cut in Garda overtime . . Check . .

So public servants are being "hit" with normal retirement and reduced overtime !!

Savings are there yes, but €400 million a week . . You dont seem to grasp the enormous deficit we are facing (which is the problem many have).

Drumpot

dresden8 wrote: »

You ask how the public sector is being singled out. Then you single them out for savings.

Seriously, do you proof-read your posts before posting them?

Do you read my posts ?

I said this is a thread on public servants and I am discussing them . .

Social welfare is getting hit but luckily it doesnt have a union behind it (to kick and scream "attack" "attack")

How can you discuss reducing the public purses without discussing one of its biggest cost ?

Public servants are singling themselves out by ignoring the reality of our economic tragedy . . Plain and simple . .

bug

Drumpot wrote: »

Again . .This feeling of being singled out and "attacked" is simply mindboggling . .

Public service wages account for a third of our nations budget . . Do you think it should be overlooked ?

I ask the question again . .

Where does our government make up €400million a week WITHOUT touching the public service ?

No, as I stated, it should have been sorted out years ago.
I dont think it should be overlooked at all.
You may have noted a slightly sarcastic tone in my post perhaps.

It's valid to reduce the public sector wage bill. But it would have been viable and more valid if we had time to implement it correctly.

This I fear will be an utter mess. I await to see how it pans out.

Whatever you believe yourself - I personally believe their has been a media orchestration to put a mood within the public domain to prepare for any possibly necessary reductions in that pay bill.
It's the simplest way out of the mess at the moment, and well, we don't obviously don't have alternative thinkers with a slight bit of planning in this government. Look at NAMA and the basis on which they assume it will work as an example.

But this government are really orchestrators of spin and wheeler dealing.
They get a gold star for that, not much else though so it seems.

What do you think my private employer would say to me if I asked him for a pay rise (or not to reduce my pay) if i said to him I couldnt afford it?

I don't know what he's say, do you want me to guess? Or do you want me to find some relevance in that statement?

ParkRunner

Drumpot wrote: »

Savings are there yes, but €400 million a week . . You dont seem to grasp the enormous deficit we are facing (which is the problem many have).

Unfortunately the private sector was in reality so weak and dependant on foreign investment that the public sector just simply cannot adjust quickly enough to catch up with the lack of a plan B in the private sector.

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you read my posts ?

I said this is a thread on public servants and I am discussing them . .

Social welfare is getting hit but luckily it doesnt have a union behind it (to kick and scream "attack" "attack")

How can you discuss reducing the public purses without discussing one of its biggest cost ?

So you admit you are singling us out for attacks. (Even if only in the context of this thread. OT, what other cuts and tax raises do you envisage to balance the books?)

Social welfare has varied and loud voices to fight it's corner.

Drumpot

bug wrote: »

No, as I stated, it should have been sorted out years ago.
I dont think it should be overlooked at all.
You may have noted a slightly sarcastic tone in my post perhaps.

It's valid to reduce the public sector wage bill. But it would have been viable and more valid if we had time to implement it correctly.

This I fear will be an utter mess. I await to see how it pans out.

Whatever you believe yourself - I personally believe their has been a media orchestration to put a mood within the public domain to prepare for any possibly necessary reductions in that pay bill.
It's the simplest way out of the mess at the moment, and well, we don't obviously don't have alternative thinkers with a slight bit of planning in this government. Look at NAMA and the basis on which they assume it will work as an example.

But this government are really orchestrators of spin and wheeler dealing.
They get a gold star for that, not much else though so it seems.

I agree . .

The problem is we dont have the luxury of hindsight . .

The problem isnt the public service, the problem is we simply dont have the money now .

we are also limited by the EU and what "solution" our government sell to them . Remember if you are spending over €400million a week then you have, if your banker cuts you off, how do you pay your bills?

My only problem with this talk of strike and "I wont take a paycut" is that there is no actual acceptance that our country is borrowing to pay its bills and whatever we do we simply cannot afford it .

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

My only problem with this talk of strike and "I wont take a paycut" is that there is no actual acceptance that our country is borrowing to pay its bills and whatever we do we simply cannot afford it .

I had three staff in January, I have one now. I've kept the section going, (badly), a paycut would be the final kick in the teeth.

The cuts have happened, they are ongoing. We are all paying.

Not like all of the private sector, apparently.

Purple Gorilla

Thought I'd chime in on this after hearing my idiotic teachers drone on about it today..trying to influence students and get their parents against the government over school cutbacks.

How do these Civil Servants expect us to continue to pay the wage bill? We cannot afford it. Those nurses going on strike because they aren't getting a 3.5% pay increase...what ****ing world are they living on? We've been living too good for too long. Now we have to cutback on services and expenditure to realistic levels.

That pension levy argument pisses me off...that 7% is tax deductible and Private Sector workers have taken a much bigger hit.

Either you take a pay cut or instead you wait for the IMF to come in and they really couldn't give a **** about your Unions. They'll fire a lot of people and the rest can expect a 30% paycut.

Ugh...the idiocy of you people is amazing. If benchmarking can work upwards, why can't it work downwards?

Drumpot

dresden8 wrote: »

So you admit you are singling us out for attacks. (Even if only in the context of this thread. OT, what other cuts and tax raises do you envisage to balance the books?)

Social welfare has varied and loud voices to fight it's corner.

Attacks ?

No . This isnt about "attacking" an area. This is about getting the country back on track as quickly as possible .

An attack insinuates that I dont like public servants . .

In fact I am looking at it from a practical point of view . .

When you cant afford your bills, you have to cut your costs . . Plain and simple . .

In many cases I dont think either side has empathy for the other because there is an ignorance to acknowledge certain aspects that either side benefits from.

In other areas of this board I have been more balanced, but perhaps I just had a bad day and am fed up with people moaning about things that I wish were my only worry (5%, 10%, 15% paycut etc). .

I dont expect anybody to feel sorry for my problems, but I understand that the only way this country is going to get out of our problems quickly is with a unified approach to coming up with long term strategys for the greater good. I fear that the vested interest groups will prevent this (on all sides).

Ive said it before, never before has a government had a chance to make very very hard unpopular decisions then FF. They are fked in the next election, they might aswell do the right things for once and do whats right for our country overall . .

bug

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree . .

The problem is we dont have the luxury of hindsight . .

The problem isnt the public service, the problem is we simply dont have the money now .

we are also limited by the EU and what "solution" our government sell to them . Remember if you are spending over €400million a week then you have, if your banker cuts you off, how do you pay your bills?

My only problem with this talk of strike and "I wont take a paycut" is that there is no actual acceptance that our country is borrowing to pay its bills and whatever we do we simply cannot afford it .

Here's a random prediction

The government will for once stand firm because they actually have to.
lots of media whoring from all sides.
The public service will grind to a halt.
Everyone will go back to work because they realise they have mortgages too.
The public service will be a bigger mess.
People will go back to giving out about the banks.
Election.

Drumpot

bug wrote: »

Here's a random prediction

The government will for once stand firm because they actually have to.
lots of media whoring from all sides.
The public service will grind to a halt.
Everyone will go back to work because they realise they have mortgages too.
The public service will be a bigger mess.
People will go back to giving out about the banks.
Election.

That pretty much covers it . .

The winter of discontent . . .

bug

Drumpot wrote: »

That pretty much covers it . .

The winter of discontent . . .

Yup.

The real problem will be the hospital staff on strike. Even a work to rule is a dangerous situation.

It'll be a long winter unless they start structural reform straight after the cuts in December.
FF may be on their way out, but I wish they would do something slightly beneficial before the door hits them on the way out.

By the way if you substitute "luxury of hindsight" with "competant governing and foresight" in your previous post then I completely agree with you

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

That pretty much covers it . .

The winter of discontent . . .

Just once FF get the blame for it.

I know, as a ps voter whore, I'm supposed to be a FF whore. But it's just not true.

Lemming

maxximus wrote: »

lemming , with all your qualifications you do not seem to be able to read.

*clap*clap*clap*

Oh geeh wizz ... right lets get started then shall we? With all your qualifications you do not seem to be able to think beyond the length of your silver spoon.

i will take another cut when the cost of living is reduced to reflect it , then i will have no problem with it , that is something you obviously fail to understand.

No, what you don't seem to understand is that which comes first? The cut in wages, or the cost of living? As I've said before; "everybody but you ..."

"Share the pain, but all of you go first ok? Maybe I wont have to if you do it for me and I can continue on as I have done".

Wake. Up. That light at the end of the tunnel IS an oncoming train. Seems to have the letters I.M.F. etched into it too ...

for example, regulate the health system , i pay enough prsi that i should be looked after by a public paid doctor a la the system in britain , thats 60 quid the governement can have.

Regulate the health system. Just like that eh? I wonder what all those vested interests and powerful unions would say to that. Regulation means control, that means wage caps, freezes, etc.

Do you realise just how long that particular fight would rage for? Longer than required to pull this country's finances under control. And funnily enough entails slashing the pay and conditions of all those other public sector workers.

My my you are a united bunch ...

In any case, we'd long be since bankrupt before that fight was over. It is a battle that needs fought but right now this country needs to pick its battles selectively in order to simply survive.

Anybody else but you right?

also , cap the price of renting property per square foot and they can have the money i would save there.

Ah, ok. So lets say we do that. Goodbye investment since there's a capped amount to be made. But more importantly, what do you think would happen to rental prices across the board? They'd all suddenly and mysteriously hit the cap.

What's a fair capped price by the way? ANd how long do you think it would take to examine the issue, come up with realistic proposals, and legislate it all? How much do you think that would cost?

Meanwhile in reality .... another umpteen thousand(s) people have lost their jobs and the country edges ever closer towards insolvency.

Anybody else but you right?

there are just two examples off the top of my head.

If those are two examples off the top of your head, then it's probably for the best that you don't hold the ministers ears.

the change needs to be wholescale , from the farmer suppling the milk to the shop to the customer buying it , a cut of wages needs to be parallel and reflected in the wider scale economy in general.

Indeed the cuts need to be wholesale. Do you know what wholesale implies? That' means ... wait for it ...

Everybody. INCLUDING you.

just cutting wages aint the answer , it will just go on and on and on.

It's not THE answer in itself, but it's a very, very large chunk of the answer. And it's under direct government control, and accounting for a colossal percentage of overall expenditure.

i hope you will take care to read all of my opinion on this matter this time around and not just the parts that support your aggression , cheers

Now, did I miss anything you mentioned there?

Purple Gorilla

maxximus wrote: »

i will take another cut when the cost of living is reduced to reflect it , then i will have no problem with it , that is something you obviously fail to understand.

The cost of living has been falling all year. We've had deflation of 6% so you shouldn't have a problem with it.

Drumpot

dresden8 wrote: »

Just once FF get the blame for it.

I know, as a ps voter whore, I'm supposed to be a FF whore. But it's just not true.

Its not fianna fails fault . . Its our countries fault for voting them in without demanding more from them . .

You see from what little posts you have read from me, you assume Im angry with public servants for simply having a job. . Im not . .

I dont look at the problem in our country as being possibly resolved by attacking one section.

As a nation we need to look at ourselves and ask if its right that the likes of John O'Donohue will get re-elected. This is the real problem with the country. We dont demand accountability. We dont demand more from our T.D's. When they get our estate sorted or they get funds for our local GAA club we vote for them out of simply self interest on a local level. Funnily enough nobody ever comments on this way of thinking as its not picking on a specific person or section of society.

As a nation we are naieve, narrow minded and self obsessed.

We want a local politician who's ear we can bend, but a government with a national agenda. How do we ever expect to have a credible government that have the nations interest at heart when we vote for the cute hooers and the guys that look after their own .

If I am accused of attacking anything or anybody, its the Irish Electorate. The book stops at the top of the pile. Fianna Fail had to be given the keys to the porche, to be able to crash it . .

I heard a really good discussion on the Tom Dunne show today. the guest had a phd in corruption and spent her time studying differant countries corruption. Apparantly we are 20th on a list of 160 countries (not bad, would hate to live in the 160th country!).

Scandanavian countries are the least corrupt. And the thing she said was actually one of the biggest problems in government. The government of Scandanavian countries have serious morals. they dont actually have any legislation to monitor how they govern their country because they always take the morally correct decision. Imagine that . A government with morals, who actually doesnt need to be monitored .

Whether labour, fg or independent, we could not consider this a possibility. Its not the politicians fault as much as it is the fault of the electorate that demand nothing more then mediocrity from their government. The OAP's demanded and got what they wanted. Fair play to them. They showed us how you treat a government that forgets who pays their wage . .

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

The Public Servants demanded and got what they wanted. Fair play to them. They showed us how you treat a government that forgets who pays their wage . .

FYP.

Your posts are not logical.

Poccington

I've no major crib about taking a pay cut. I'm working in an occupation that I've wanted to do all my life and although I'm not on smashing wages, I'm on enough for a 21 year old to survive on.

As long as it's done in a somewhat fair manner, as in it's not just a 20% cut right across the board or some nonsense, well then it needs to be done. Obviously I'd rather no pay cut but they need to get the finances under control somehow. No amount of striking, radio interviews etc. is gonna change that.

Drumpot

dresden8 wrote: »

FYP.

Your posts are not logical.

Your posts are not constructive . .

Brilliant . You pick that out of my all my posts . . Sort of highlights your narrow minded approach to this topic. .

Some people see what they want to see my friend and you would certainly be in that bracket . .

I see the problem as a national problem, clarify it, and you still have that big chip on your shoulder that I am attacking the public servants.

Or have you dropped that argument because I have clarified my views?

In fact . . Are you a troll ? . . Thats a very trollsy reply . . Hmmm . .

amacca

Drumpot wrote: »

Myth 1: You have qualifications and deserve to be paid a specified wage.

I have a management degree, an investment diploma, a QFA and 8 years in my industry and never earned more then €26,000 in a private company during the celtic Tiger years. I represent a MAJORITY of people in the private sector who didnt get ridiculous bonus's that many ignorant twats focus on in their patheticly weak arguements on why the "celtic tiger passed them" while all us in the private sector milked the system.

. .

Drumpot, seriously?

management degree, postgrad diploma, QFA and eight years experience..........and only 26k? (that puts you roughly around 26-30 years of age right? --- there aren't many people of that age in any sector with qualifications and experience like yours on 26k unless they got them with a mcdonalds happy meal

What sort of an organisation are you working for? (I wish to avoid them like the plague)

I worked in Dunnes stores for the summer in 1999 and my annual wage would have been around 20k that year if I worked the full year. I had no qualifications at the time.

My typical duties included collecting clothes hangars, filling the compactor and trying to satisfy my cro magnon manager who incidentally had some sort of a retail diploma (and thats it) and was on about 30k a year. Admittedly he did have long hours but he tended to spend a lot of those aquainting his arsehole with his index finger.

I looked at old payslips before from my first job when I left college and I started off on something like 22 - 23k with just a degree (private sector btw)

I think one of the reasons (not the only reason but certainly a factor) a person trains and does further educational qualifications is to earn more (improve their standard of living) and if they do have to gain certain qualifications to do a job or progress they they should have the right to be paid a specified wage.....maybe not as much as they are currently earning but certainly more than those that dont have the qualifications and didnt have to deal with the opportunity cost of getting the qualifications.


Anyway if youre only earning 26k with your qualifications and with eight years experience then you may be (a) getting royally screwed (b) qualified in a field other than the one you are working in or (c) getting royally screwed

Perhaps Im wrong but in this case it would seem that you are being underpaid more than public sector workers are being overpaid and youre story doesnt justify bashing public servants perceived sense of entitlement. You mat be justified in bashing the sense of entitlement but youre employment details dont add up or back up your point.


What were you doing for the last 6 years, did you not know that you could have earned up to 35k (if you include additional benefits) simply by finding some appropriate young wan to impregnate a couple of times and then sitting around in your free council house.

As a qfa...are you not trained to look at the bottom line? There must have been many other private sector gigs you could have got paid more in with your quals? Sounds like a couple of stiff drinks might have helped.

dresden8

Drumpot wrote: »

In fact . . Are you a troll ? . . Thats a very trollsy reply . . Hmmm . .

Want to avoids stats and numbers? Accuse trolling.

How accusatory!

Samson1

Drumpot you say

"If I got a 100% payrise in my privately owned company, why should that be any concern of you ?" and

"Our Countrys balance sheet is fked.
Where do we make up the 400million in loans we are getting per week to service our costs ? "

and repeat that over & over.

I think that is because you, IBEC and Government that has been dancing to IBEC's tune for the last 12 months know the answer.

Its not rocket science. What do Governments all over the world do to raise revenue ??? Yes thats right - they raise taxes.

This really is very simple. We are running a deficit - what do you do - you raise taxes - not for one sector. Not for 350,000 workers - for all people at work - all 2 million plus.

Thats the alternative & that is what all this Public Service bashing is about. Its not personal - like you say, you dont hate public servants. Thats not the issue.

Its simply that you, FF, IBEC - employers in general think that taking the soft option "cut public service pay" is going to stave off the fateful day when they will have to pay their fair share.

Yes we need efficiencies in the public sector - by the way we already have them with swinging cuts already this year; but for all those entrepreneurs & employers out there who are still creaming out there - the last thing they want to hear is that they will have to pay their fair share.

IBEC dont really believe that cutting the pay of a small proportion of the workforce will balance the books - but they know that the big prize out there is that the minute that happens they will implement penal pay cuts on their workers.

So its win-win. They continue to bleed this country dry like they always have and avoid proper tax rates and by slashing wages their profits are up - they will call that a recovery. While the little people struggle on.

Oh and for my 10 cents - bring in the IMF. Roll on the day. Do you think they will agree that like idiots we pay 1/3rd more than properties are worth going into NAMA. Will they agree to pour another €4 billion and then a further €4billion into an insolvent bank like Anglo-Irish & the rest. Support institutionlaised corruption? no - don't think so. Bring them in quick!

Finally enough nonsense on public service pensions. There is no billions - no fund - the big lie. Pensions come out of day to day spending. Last year, 2008 pensions cost 10% of the public service pay bill. Staff payed 6 1/2 % pension contributions and are now paying an additional average 7 1/2% pension levy. Yes - 14% contributions this year.

So if we have a deficit - do we tax those - particularly those who can afford to pay - or have paycuts for the few??? Those are the options.

MrMicra

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The law said that the money in the National Pension reserve Fund could only be used to guarantee state pensions......so your mates in FF changed the law, took a few billion out and gave it to your mates in the banks. .

Public servants vote disproportionately for Fianna Fail if they are anyone's mates it is the public sector.
Bertie Ahern is a public servant, Brian Cowen is a public servant, McCreevy was a public servant, Haughey was a public servant, Fingleton was a public servant, Brendan Drumm is a public servant.

MrMicra

EF wrote: »

Social welfare has been left unchanged for long enough and there is room for a slight increase in corporation tax

So cut payments to the poorest so we can continue to pay assistant secretaries 150,000 a year.
Slash the pension for the poorest so we can pay Brian Cowen a quarter of a million a year.
Close shelters for battered women so that Dresden8 can enjoy his 50,000 a year for a 37 hour week.
Public sector workers are happy to let people die so that their gold plated pensions can be preserved.

Haughey, McCreevy, Ahern, Cowen all public sector workers.

Rob67

Poccington wrote: »

I've no major crib about taking a pay cut. I'm working in an occupation that I've wanted to do all my life and although I'm not on smashing wages, I'm on enough for a 21 year old to survive on.

As long as it's done in a somewhat fair manner, as in it's not just a 20% cut right across the board or some nonsense, well then it needs to be done. Obviously I'd rather no pay cut but they need to get the finances under control somehow. No amount of striking, radio interviews etc. is gonna change that.

There's no point in trying to be reasonable with the individual posters on this thread (especially the anti-PS crowd) they're in a cycle of 'he said, she said' now and the thread will descend into anarchy.

I agree with you though, it has to be a measured response with graduated reductions instead of a 'one size fits all' cut.

As a recent retiree from my chosen career (similar to your own), my only fear is that my very meagre pension will suffer as a result as I expect that to be cut.

Drumpot

amacca wrote: »

Drumpot, seriously?

management degree, postgrad diploma, QFA and eight years experience..........and only 26k? (that puts you roughly around 26-30 years of age right? --- there aren't many people of that age in any sector with qualifications and experience like yours on 26k unless they got them with a mcdonalds happy meal

What sort of an organisation are you working for? (I wish to avoid them like the plague)

I worked in Dunnes stores for the summer in 1999 and my annual wage would have been around 20k that year if I worked the full year. I had no qualifications at the time.

My typical duties included collecting clothes hangars, filling the compactor and trying to satisfy my cro magnon manager who incidentally had some sort of a retail diploma (and thats it) and was on about 30k a year. Admittedly he did have long hours but he tended to spend a lot of those aquainting his arsehole with his index finger.

I looked at old payslips before from my first job when I left college and I started off on something like 22 - 23k with just a degree (private sector btw)

I think one of the reasons (not the only reason but certainly a factor) a person trains and does further educational qualifications is to earn more (improve their standard of living) and if they do have to gain certain qualifications to do a job or progress they they should have the right to be paid a specified wage.....maybe not as much as they are currently earning but certainly more than those that dont have the qualifications and didnt have to deal with the opportunity cost of getting the qualifications.


Anyway if youre only earning 26k with your qualifications and with eight years experience then you may be (a) getting royally screwed (b) qualified in a field other than the one you are working in or (c) getting royally screwed

Perhaps Im wrong but in this case it would seem that you are being underpaid more than public sector workers are being overpaid and youre story doesnt justify bashing public servants perceived sense of entitlement. You mat be justified in bashing the sense of entitlement but youre employment details dont add up or back up your point.


What were you doing for the last 6 years, did you not know that you could have earned up to 35k (if you include additional benefits) simply by finding some appropriate young wan to impregnate a couple of times and then sitting around in your free council house.

As a qfa...are you not trained to look at the bottom line? There must have been many other private sector gigs you could have got paid more in with your quals? Sounds like a couple of stiff drinks might have helped.

No, Im 31 years of age and I am deadly serious . . Perhaps there are areas of the private sector that paid more then mine, but I know for a fact that generally in Banking and insurance, a majority of people never even got near the average industrial wage. Thats simply talking from the areas I worked in, which were the areas that a majority of people in these sectors worked. We are the people with no voices, who SIPTU ignore when spouting out rhetoric about private sector employees creaming it in the celtic tiger years and we represent a majority of the workforce certainly in our industry (which is alot of people).

When I worked in a bank , they used to hire people on 8 month contracts, let them go for 4 months and rehire them on 8 month contracts so they wouldnt have permanent employee status and the benefits that go with it. Also they didnt have to give them raise. You see, some people didnt really have much of a choice as they werent qualified for anything else and contrary to popular belief they werent handing out public service jobs that none of us wanted.

Finished up in Collage at age 24 (took a year out during collage and worked for a year).

I tried to get a job in the public service back in 2002 a couple of times (starting wages €28k or so) and was up against 349 others for 10 positions at one time. At that stage I ended up having to join a private sector company starting on 20k (in the peak of the celtic tiger) with a degree. I got the Diploma and QFA during my term in Employment with New Ireland Assurance (but you dont get pay rises with qualifications gained). By then they were owned by Bank of Ireland and they dont really look after their staff. I know bank employees in a branch that had to bring in their own toilet roll at one stage.

You see, a majority of people I came across, whether it be working in banks (BOI And AIB) or New Ireland , were certainly not creaming the companies (as quite simply the companies wouldnt have it). There are tens of thousands of people working in the Banking sector that are on nowhere near the average industrial wage.

Sure there are private jobs that are on top salaries, but in my experience, these are the exceptions rather then the rule. Its convenient for certain groups to ignore this.

The simple fact is that this country are hemorrhaging money and we cant afford to continue spending what we are. Whatever public servants are told by their unions, the country simply cannot continue to afford spending as much as it is on all our services. In my job, most of the services I sell are seen as obsolete or excess to peoples requirements (although I believe they are important) and I constantly worry about whether or not I will have a job next month.

My wife took a 30% paycut recently and is on short time, so I am sure you will understand that when public servants talk of striking because they have to take a couple of paycuts, I dont really see why they would consider bringing this country to its knees for their own benefits. Of course there are personal circumstances where people are struggling and we all empathise with people struggling for any reason. Thats not the point, this is a national issue. Most of us in the private sector cant goto their boss and say they cant take a paycut cause they cannot afford it and if they said they would strike they would be given a p-45. Thats the differance, thats where the reality sets in for private employees and where public servants end off in Never Never Land, where benchmarking only goes one way when it suits them & where getting more loans from the EU is the answer to the problems.

I dont listen to IBEC or SIPTU, no more then I listened to the Yes or No campaigners in the Lisbon treaty.

I think those in the higher brackets of the public service should be hammered (up to 20% in the real high areas) and they should leave those in the lower paid areas as much as is possible.

There will have to be serious job losses or paycuts (possibly both). The government are going to have to nudge the unions aside as social Partnership is whats given the unions and their members a feeling of entitlement and a feeling of being above everybody else (certainly the way they come across).

The maths is simple . . The country cannot afford its bills and some people would have us forget this, except for the fact that the EU will eventually pull the plug on our funding if we dont get our house in order. Bowing to the public servants DEMANDS would be detrimental to the countries recovery. The only people it will serve is those getting a salary from the state. I have to laugh when they say its taking money out of the economy. Its money that we are borrowing to pay them.