Public sector told 'strike and pay will be docked'

mspacman

eoferrall wrote: »

Back that up? I know in my firm everyone over 30k took 10% cut. also the starting salary for newly qualifieds has dropped from approx 55k to almost 40k.

and along with the paycut there was a pay freeze until 2010.. therefore 2 years of no paycuts and then lots of redundencies.

all the big firms are roughly the same situation and it was all over the news when the firms introduced this.

I rarely post in these threads but browse them occasionally but to be honest this thread is getting a bit ridiculous (from both sides tbh) with the blind assumptions and nonsense unbacked up by both sides.

Why is everyone fighting against each other? and yes the private sector has taken paycuts - a lot of the unemployment has come from where? public and private (but more private).

someone pointed out that the social welfare needs to be tackled... the Gov started trying to do this by cancelling christmas bonus... (why do you get a bonus for been unemployed anyway?) and the fuss was unbelievable. maybe we should all stick together and tackle EVERY area a little and share the burden rather than trying to lump it on everyone else with the attitude "cuts are needed, as long as its not me"

Generalisations only service to irritate everyone and foster the defense mechanism that all of these types of threads generate.

Thanks.

KPMG?

I agree with you for the most part. Everyone is blaming everyone else. Fairest thing to do, is enforce the pay cuts on us in the public sector, but then increase taxes across the board. So - it's even stevens!!!!!

mspacman

hobochris wrote: »

If he is fresh out of TempleMore as you say he will be on trainee's wages as he is a Trainee garda.


Once he sit's his exams after a few months in the field, he will be a fully fledged Garda and on proper Garda starting wages.

Trainee wage != starting garda wage.

Eh well actually that's where you're wrong. Yet again, another ill-informed person. Incase you might not have heard, there is a PAYFREEZE in the public sector until at LEAST December 2010 - but in reality we all know that's going to last at least another year beyond that. So no, once he's a full qualified garda, he will NOT be earning a full garda wage. He will still earn the trainee garda wage!

ghosttown

I'm reading a lot of people getting angry with each other when really they should be on the same side. Someone, somewhere has a wonderful spin doctor who has created this smoke screen.
Get off boards for a few hours, get out and march, and show solidarity.
Yes,we are all in a dificult situation, and none of us will be chauffuer driven home tonight after 'another difficult day trying to make things better for the masses'........
So, instead of being broken into factions, we need to be cohesive and address the situation. I don't have answers, but it is apparent this government don't either, so start by showing them we don't accept their responses to date.
Personally, I feel no one with income under €25k whether earned today or earned by virtue of work done previously and now on assistance, should be held responsible. (and yes, I earn more than 25k, so i will take my pain).
We need solidarity, otherwise we are being laughed at from on high.

OMD

mspacman wrote: »

Eh well actually that's where you're wrong. Yet again, another ill-informed person. Incase you might not have heard, there is a PAYFREEZE in the public sector until at LEAST December 2010 - but in reality we all know that's going to last at least another year beyond that. So no, once he's a full qualified garda, he will NOT be earning a full garda wage. He will still earn the trainee garda wage!

I posted this yesterday but will post again

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

By the way a pay freeze in public sector does not work that way. It should but it doesn't. Assuming no changes are made in budget your friend will be earning a basic wage of about 30K a year. When he works nights (as part of his basic week) he will earn time +1/6 and for working a Sunday (again as part of normal week) he will earn an extra 20% of his weekly wage.

Assuming he works nights and Sunadys his starting salary would be nearer 40K. Obviously this can go much higher with overtime and other allowances

P. Breathnach

ghosttown wrote: »

... I don't have answers, but it is apparent this government don't either, so start by showing them we don't accept their responses to date...

That's a do-nothing formula. Doing nothing is not a realistic option.

hobochris

mspacman wrote: »

Eh well actually that's where you're wrong. Yet again, another ill-informed person. Incase you might not have heard, there is a PAYFREEZE in the public sector until at LEAST December 2010 - but in reality we all know that's going to last at least another year beyond that. So no, once he's a full qualified garda, he will NOT be earning a full garda wage. He will still earn the trainee garda wage!

I don't think you understand how a payfreeze works. It is not a freeze on the individuals pay but the pay of a certain position or rank.

In other works if a Sargent's pay is 40k a year, during a Payfreeze that sum will not rise, I.e. pay for people at the rank of Sargent will stay at 40k, if however a person increases in rank they will be paid that ranks pay.

so if your student Garda friend has reached the rank of full garda he will be on full garda pay, that pay will simply not rise through the national pay agreement while he is at that rank(unless the payfreeze ends).

OMD

hobochris wrote: »

I don't think you understand how a payfreeze works. It is not a freeze on the individuals pay but the pay of a certain position.

In other works if a Sargent's pay is 40k a year, during a Payfreeze that sum will not rise, I.e. pay for people at the rank of Sargent will stay at 40k, if however a person increases in rank they will be paid that ranks pay.

so if your student Garda friend has reached the rank of full garda he will be on full garda pay, that pay will simply not rise through the national pay agreement while he is at the rank.

But the pay will still rise with his yearly increment. So a year 2 garda will earn more than a year 1 garda. A pay freeze in the public sector means you only get a small pay rise. This is one of the reasons the public sector pay bill rose this year despite a pay freeze.

Villain

Posted this in another thread but I think it is relevant here too.

Its simple imo let the IMF come in and it will go as follows:

IMF: "Public Sector worker you are earning 60k, you will have to take a pay cut back to 50k"

Public Worker:"LOL Yea right try that and I'll strike"

IMF: "Ok heres you minimum redundancy, now which one of the 400-500k people on the Dole want that job for 45k?"

mspacman

hobochris wrote: »

I don't think you understand how a payfreeze works. It is not a freeze on the individuals pay but the pay of a certain position.

In other works if a Sargent's pay is 40k a year, during a Payfreeze that sum will not rise, I.e. pay for people at the rank of Sargent will stay at 40k, if however a person increases in rank they will be paid that ranks pay.

so if your student Garda friend has reached the rank of full garda he will be on full garda pay, that pay will simply not rise through the national pay agreement while he is at that rank(unless the payfreeze ends).

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

hobochris

OMD wrote: »

But the pay will still rise with his yearly increment. So a year 2 garda will earn more than a year 1 garda. A pay freeze in the public sector means you only get a small pay rise. This is one of the reasons the public sector pay bill rose this year despite a pay freeze.

that maybe the case with how the public sector works, but I was merely educating our friend(who accuses other of being uninformed) of how a payfreeze will not prevent his garda friend from receiving the correct pay for his rank.

As for the topic itself, IMO if you don't work or use a holiday day you don't get paid.

Striking is not working, so therefor pay should not be paid for a day on strike.

OMD

mspacman wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you "acting up" or have you been promoted. If you have been promoted you should be paid the salary of the new job. If you are not get on to your union rep.

tunney

mspacman wrote: »

Eh well actually that's where you're wrong. Yet again, another ill-informed person. Incase you might not have heard, there is a PAYFREEZE in the public sector until at LEAST December 2010 - but in reality we all know that's going to last at least another year beyond that. So no, once he's a full qualified garda, he will NOT be earning a full garda wage. He will still earn the trainee garda wage!

LOL.

hobochris

mspacman wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Very simple your current role has either been deemed the same grade as your previous role by your superiors or there is a payroll error.

FYI, I like many others in the private sector have had to take serious pay cuts to avoid the dole queue.

MY current salary with cuts as a qualified(hon degree) software developer with 2 years experience has been cut right the way down to 23k a year just so my company can survive.

Wheety

mspacman wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm a public servant. There is no way that you're on 25k and 2 scales above you, would be 40k.

Brian Griffin

mspacman wrote: »

Last April, I was forced to take two pay cuts (the income levy and the pension levy) -

I don't think you understand we in the private sector have had to pay more taxs as well. We don't have the benefit of a fixed amount in our pension at the end.

Personally my pension fund has lost a lot amount of money in the last two years. All I can really do is keep paying into my fund and hope by retirement its gotten better.

I have had to take a real pay cut in my wage. Also required to work longer working week and be more willing to travel on very short, and the place are not very nice places. Lost alot in benefits.

Looking forward to more cut but hofully keep my job.

MaceFace

Brian Griffin wrote: »

I don't think you understand we in the private sector have had to pay more taxs as well. We don't have the benefit of a fixed amount in our pension at the end.

Personally my pension fund has lost a lot amount of money in the last two years. All I can really do is keep paying into my fund and hope by retirement its gotten better.

I have had to take a real pay cut in my wage. Also required to work longer working week and be more willing to travel on very short, and the place are not very nice places. Lost alot in benefits.

Looking forward to more cut but hofully keep my job.

The point about the job insecurity is key. In my job I have been on a pay freeze, got promoted but no pay increase. Thats all fine and I accept the position the company is in, but the bit that worries me is that I could lose my job any day.

For as much as people in the public sector want to keep what they have, everyone in the private sector is concerned on a daily basis whether they will have a job.

eoferrall

mspacman wrote: »

KPMG?

I agree with you for the most part. Everyone is blaming everyone else. Fairest thing to do, is enforce the pay cuts on us in the public sector, but then increase taxes across the board. So - it's even stevens!!!!!

Yup, thats pretty much what will happen - if the unions don't F&ck it all up. and with sweeping sharp axe to the social welfare/rent allowance etc...and the CHRISTMAS bonus!:eek:

(don't get me started on unions:p in my mind as they currently exist needs to change....another thread another day!):D

mspacman

hobochris wrote: »

that maybe the case with how the public sector works, but I was merely educating our friend(who accuses other of being uninformed) of how a payfreeze will not prevent his garda friend from receiving the correct pay for his rank.

As for the topic itself, IMO if you don't work or use a holiday day you don't get paid.

Striking is not working, so therefor pay should not be paid for a day on strike.

AGAIN, you are NOT listening!!!!!

Read my quote below from previous post!!!!

"I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?! "

He will NOT get the correct pay for his rank at the end of the traineeship like I have NOT received the correct pay for my promotion. It is a public sector pay freeze. Granted we still get our increments (as far as I know!) but we do NOT get a pay rise - for promotions and/or finishing training!!!

Stop trying to correct me. I am correct on this one. I know what I'm talking about, because I have been affected by the situation!!!!

Villain

mspacman wrote: »

AGAIN, you are NOT listening!!!!!

Read my quote below from previous post!!!!

"I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you are talking about. Unless it's one rule for one section of the public sector and another rule for another section.

I was in a low level public sector job up to earlier this year, I was earning 25k plus some shift allowances, bringing my pay up to somewhere around 26,500 last year. Now, since i've moved into my new role, being a 9-5 role, i no longer get shift allowances, so i'm back down to 25k pa. The job i am working in, is a job 2 pay scales above my current salary, should be starting on (should be earning now!) 40k pa. But am not. Because of the pay freeze. I have to stay on my current salary for the forseeable future.

Now explain that one to me if that's not how a payfreeze works?!?!?!?!?!?!?! "

He will NOT get the correct pay for his rank at the end of the traineeship like I have NOT received the correct pay for my promotion. It is a public sector pay freeze. Granted we still get our increments (as far as I know!) but we do NOT get a pay rise - for promotions and/or finishing training!!!

Stop trying to correct me. I am correct on this one. I know what I'm talking about, because I have been affected by the situation!!!!

Garda trainee's will get a new level of pay when they complete training, qualified Gardai will not be affected

mspacman

Wheety wrote: »

I'm a public servant. There is no way that you're on 25k and 2 scales above you, would be 40k.

Excuse me, but yes there is! I'm on a clerical scale at the moment and should be on a scale two above me. Starting at 40k. The scale directly above me starts at 30k. The scale that I'm currently on starts at 18k.

But of course, you would know!

mspacman

Villain wrote: »

Garda trainee's will get a new level of pay when they complete training, qualified Gardai will not be affected

So you're saying that it's one rule for one branch of the public sector and another rule for the others yeah? Cos i certainly have not received and will not receive my new level of pay until the pay freeze is lifted!

MaceFace

mspacman wrote: »

Eh well actually that's where you're wrong. Yet again, another ill-informed person. Incase you might not have heard, there is a PAYFREEZE in the public sector until at LEAST December 2010 - but in reality we all know that's going to last at least another year beyond that. So no, once he's a full qualified garda, he will NOT be earning a full garda wage. He will still earn the trainee garda wage!

Just spoke to a Garda and your mate is telling porkies.
He comes out with just over 200 quid in Templemore and once he finishes being a STUDENT, he will go up to about 650 a week (coming out with about 450). This is regardless of a pay freeze.

Villain

Yep thats the cae MaceFace, mspacman is wrong

Front

maxximus wrote: »

a cut of 20% and i will be leaving to emigrate as it just would not be worth the hassle. my 569(not 600 ) will go less than 5 , i pay rent of 125 , with car, health insurance , electricity and heat etc etc , it just aint worth it.


again , people are begruding , i am all for public service reform , in my sector i have 6 people working downstairs from me doing what i consider a non job , they are Advocate , Adult guidance , adult careers , further education support services , adult community education officer , adult educational development officer , some even have secretarys , all are failed female ( im not goona lie) teachers who couldnt handle the classroom and are employed doing jobs that i reckon i could do as part of my role as business / i.t/ maths tutor within the centre .

that is where reform is needed , keep cutting wages and revenue will just decrease all the more and the gap will widen .

i have taken a 10% cut , dress it what ever way you like that is what it is , 95% of private sector workers have yet too do so , without reducing the cost of living, people will not have any incentitive to work if the gap between social welfare and wages becomes narrower.

i am not willing to take a further cut until i see adjustments made on the wider scale ( now eoin see , i am willing to take the cut as stated above , but thats the part you chose not to read) , and i will fight with the support of the union to avoid these pay cuts at all costs.

95% of Private Sector works have not taken paycuts. What nonsense. So only 5% have had their pay cut? Where are your figures from. 165000 or thereabouts have lost their jobs.. Thats over 5% of the total workforce inc Public sector who have lost their jobs alone. Not to mention 3 day weeks, and a massive amount of paycuts. The banks may be increasing pay, but ordinary businesses are not.

Public sector workers regard pension levies as a tax. I love that. If I pay into my pension, its an investment towards my retirement, but when Public sector are asked to pay into their pensions it's a levy or practically a paycut. Such Bull****.

NewDubliner

Front wrote: »

Public sector are asked to pay into their pensions it's a levy or practically a paycut. Such Bull****.

Read the legislation. The money does not go into their pensions. It's there in writing.

pmacdot

mspacman wrote: »

My god, if I hear one more ill-informed person quoting rubbish like this, I will scream!!!

I myself am a public sector worker. Last April, I was forced to take two pay cuts (the income levy and the pension levy) - fair enough, they need to cut back. I will be taking another pay cut in December.

Since April, I got a promotion at work. I am in a job where I should be earning 15k more a year (my wage is well below private sector equivalents at the moment!!), but instead, did not receive any pay increase, have had two pay cuts and a third on the way.

I am sick of hearing people babble on about rubbish they know nothing about. It's the top of the public/civil service that you should be targeting!! They're the one's earning far in excess of 100k per annum and their salaries have barely been touched. There should be a massive pay cut across the board for the top earning civil servants - bring all the CEO's of the semi-state bodies down to the same salary. Cut the University Presidents' salaries, they're earning far too much.

Don't you dare say that the likes of guards/nurses are earning far more than European counterparts. I have a friend, a guard, working in inner city Dublin and he's coming out with 190 a week net. Now can you tell me that's over paid?? Working in some of the roughest areas of the country, and coming out with less than someone sitting on their ar*se at home on the dole makes??????

Also, maybe the salaries are a bit higher than European counterparts, but our cost of living is far higher than most European countries!!!!

Learn your facts and stop spouting trash.

And stating for the fact, I am NOT a guard/nurse/teacher!

Good on you !!! I too am sick listening to this ill informed propaganda. Also tell that person that they get free health care in these European countries and shorter time to retirement ( France 55) 65 here!!!!!

Wheety

mspacman wrote: »

Excuse me, but yes there is! I'm on a clerical scale at the moment and should be on a scale two above me. Starting at 40k. The scale directly above me starts at 30k. The scale that I'm currently on starts at 18k.

But of course, you would know!

I'm a clerical officer. The pay scales don't change that much. Are you sure you're not talking about different grades?

irish_bob

mspacman wrote: »

My god, if I hear one more ill-informed person quoting rubbish like this, I will scream!!!

I myself am a public sector worker. Last April, I was forced to take two pay cuts (the income levy and the pension levy) - fair enough, they need to cut back. I will be taking another pay cut in December.

Since April, I got a promotion at work. I am in a job where I should be earning 15k more a year (my wage is well below private sector equivalents at the moment!!), but instead, did not receive any pay increase, have had two pay cuts and a third on the way.

I am sick of hearing people babble on about rubbish they know nothing about. It's the top of the public/civil service that you should be targeting!! They're the one's earning far in excess of 100k per annum and their salaries have barely been touched. There should be a massive pay cut across the board for the top earning civil servants - bring all the CEO's of the semi-state bodies down to the same salary. Cut the University Presidents' salaries, they're earning far too much.

Don't you dare say that the likes of guards/nurses are earning far more than European counterparts. I have a friend, a guard, working in inner city Dublin and he's coming out with 190 a week net. Now can you tell me that's over paid?? Working in some of the roughest areas of the country, and coming out with less than someone sitting on their ar*se at home on the dole makes??????

Also, maybe the salaries are a bit higher than European counterparts, but our cost of living is far higher than most European countries!!!!

Learn your facts and stop spouting trash.

And stating for the fact, I am NOT a guard/nurse/teacher!

im afraid it is you who are grossly ill informed and your firend the copper is filling you with garbage , thier are no guards in ireland earning as little as 190 euro per week and you only have to check the CSO to see that guards earn on average 1200 euro per week in this country

how do you like those apples

MaceFace

irish_bob wrote: »

im afraid it is you who are grossly ill informed and your firend the copper is filling you with garbage , thier are no guards in ireland earning as little as 190 euro per week and you only have to check the CSO to see that guards earn on average 1200 euro per week in this country

how do you like those apples

Well I am not going to argue with "averages" as maybe there are Guards earning "more than a million" skewing the figures, but trainees earn €193 a week. When they get out of Templemore and still on probation they come out with something like €450 a week.
Of course they go up over time and they have a lot of extras but it is nowhere near €1200 a week for the newly qualified.

Amhran Nua

MaceFace wrote: »

Well I am not going to argue with "averages" as maybe there are Guards earning "more than a million" skewing the figures, but trainees earn €193 a week.

Not too many courses out there where you get paid to learn. I believe nurses have the same benefit.