More exploitation of Irelands resources?

Daithinski

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1019/energy.html

Maybe I'm just being silly but it sounds like the government wasn't content to give away Irelands natural gas, and now they want to let multinationals exploit the potential energy of Irelands tidal power.

The article mentions Ireland being a (future) net exporter of power (due to tidal power) but whats the point if its a multinational that profits and not the people of Ireland?

"'Ireland really can be the 'Texas of Europe', exporting large quantities of green electricity,' said Harvey Applebe, project director for Tonn Energy."

But who will profit from Ireland being the "Texas of Europe"?

Long Onion

Nothing wrong with it in principle, it just depends on whether or not a good deal is struck.

Hmm lets see the benefits.

Cheap/renewable/green energy - Which would lead to a saving on carbon taxes etc eventually.

1000's of jobs created on the West coast.

Taxes from profits going to government coffers and a possibility of being able to export substantial amounts of energy to Europe.


Yep, we're really being screwed again.

I guess your problem is that it's not an Irish company that's doing this when in reality it makes no difference to 99.99999% of people in Ireland (everybody who's not a shareholder in said company).
The government doesn't have the money to do it and well, do we really want a few more thousand on the gorvernment payroll? No we dont.

dvpower

Daithinski wrote: »

But who will profit from Ireland being the "Texas of Europe"?

Didn't it say in the article?; the Irish firm, Wavebob and the Sweedish firm Vattenfall who are partners in this enterprise will benefit.

Also the taxpayers of Ireland, by having to buy less carbon credits and by the taxation revenue this will lead to. And anyone who is employed by the company will benefit. And the reputation of Ireland as a centre for green energy.

In case you haven't noticed, the Atlantic Ocean off the west coast is pretty big, so theres plently of scope for other wave operators to get in on the act.

I can't see any negatives in this story at all.

Amhran Nua

dvpower wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed, the Atlantic Ocean off the west coast is pretty big, so theres plently of scope for other wave operators to get in on the act.

Yup, no shortage of waves. I think wavebob have been researching the technology for quite some time and may have sold a few models to the Canadians a while back, fair play that they found someone with money in this recessionary environment. Either that or its another group based in Galway I'm thinking of. Regardless, this is one industry that won't be relocating to Poland.

Now if we could get onto floating wind turbines we'll have the whole thing sewn up nicely.

Daithinski

dvpower wrote: »

Didn't it say in the article?; the Irish firm, Wavebob and the Sweedish firm Vattenfall who are partners in this enterprise will benefit.

It did say in the article. As I'm sure you are aware my point was that the irish tax payer is not profiting from an Irish resource. Thats all. I'm all for wave/green energy etc and the jobs it will create here, I just wish the government would create a mechanism that would take a slice in the profits of a company that comes here for a specific geographical/resource reason.

dvpower wrote: »

Also the taxpayers of Ireland, by having to buy less carbon credits and by the taxation revenue this will lead to. And anyone who is employed by the company will benefit. And the reputation of Ireland as a centre for green energy.

If the Irish government don't want to pay carbon credits they don't have to. The Kyoto treaty expires in 2012 and they are not oblidged to sign up to the next one. The reputation of ireland as a green centre? I don't see how letting a non-irish company set up a base here enhances our reputation as a green centre. maybe the reputation of the country where the company comes from.

dvpower wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed, the Atlantic Ocean off the west coast is pretty big, so theres plently of scope for other wave operators to get in on the act.

Thanks for pointing out that the Atlantic is big:rolleyes: I wish someone had have told me before.

Ireland obviously has something to offer that other locations don't, otherwise they wouldn't be coming here, and apparently whatever this something is, they are getting for free courtesy of the Irish government.

In case you don't understand the tidal energy in the atlantic coast would be considered to be a natural resource of Ireland.

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see any negatives in this story at all.

Don't worry, some people just don't get the bigger picture. Its nothing to be ashamed of.

Long Onion

Daithinski,

The reason that the Swedish Co. is coming here is that Wavebob are one of the first companies to create a functioning and viable means of harvesting tidal power, that is all - there is no conspiracy.

The reason the government haven't done it thus far is that (and please correct me if I am wrong here) Cowen, Lenihan, Coughlan etc. are not capable of making a jam sandwich - let alone a device that converts tidal power into electricity.

Are we now going to stop indigious companies from erecting wind turbines because the taxpayer owns the wind?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

The thought struck me as I trawled around IKEA Ballymun last week that we Irish have never really understood how to package and market ourselves and our produce.

In IKEA I was surrounded by plenty of evidence of Sweden,its people,places and products.
I could see plenty of odd looking Swedish names for the furniture pieces.
I could taste ethnic Swedish food and even purchase the raw materials on the way out.

The place was well patronised with plenty of people actually BUYING the stuff,mostly on it`s uniqueness I should imagine.
It was noteworthy on close inspection how much of IKEA`s produce was actually manufactured in the Far East and the Orient,but no problem really because the IKEA name transcends the "Made in Japan"image.

Yet,for decades,Ireland enjoyed a reputation of VERY high repute in Europe,particularly Germany,Austria and France,for being a CLEAN,GREEN Country with abundant resources of high quality natural produce.

What did we do,or not do,to throw that reputation away ?

Our unique edge-of-Europe geographical location gives us a head start in developing and marketing a strong brand identity.
There is a large customer base on mainland Europe which IS selective and committed to the Green ethos in all things.

Even in the area of furniture design and construction,we could have invested far more into native design schools and small-medium scale manufacturing.

Yet we did none of it,we instead went hell-for-leather into the production of lash-em-up door and window frames for the countless thousands of unsold units now rapidly rotting away in our soft climate.

Any opinions on whether we could make a fisht of an I(fada)KEA and export the concept ?

The Aran Sweater,The Crolly Dolly,The Irish Tweed....how did we let so much slip by..???

Amhran Nua

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Aran Sweater,The Crolly Dolly,The Irish Tweed....how did we let so much slip by..???

We didn't let everything slip by, Riverdance has been seen by four times the population of the country, and is a masterpiece of presentation. The myopic focus on the property market is what you get when you have a crowd of solicitors and publicans running the place - something which will hopefully change soon. Nothing against publicans or solicitors as such, but its about time to let the rest of the professions have a go.

AlekSmart

Yes a valid point Amhran Nua,except for Enda Kenny`s somewhat gratuitous Abolish-The-Senate soundbyte.
If anything we need a higher chamber where those who can do joined-up writing can practice.
I`m not so sure that dumbing down the Dáil will do much to get us out of this pit !!!

dvpower

Daithinski wrote: »

It did say in the article. As I'm sure you are aware my point was that the irish tax payer is not profiting from an Irish resource. Thats all. I'm all for wave/green energy etc and the jobs it will create here, I just wish the government would create a mechanism that would take a slice in the profits of a company that comes here for a specific geographical/resource reason.

It has. They call it the tax system.

Daithinski wrote: »

The reputation of ireland as a green centre? I don't see how letting a non-irish company set up a base here enhances our reputation as a green centre. maybe the reputation of the country where the company comes from.

This venture does involve an Irish company. Did you read the article?

Daithinski wrote: »

In case you don't understand the tidal energy in the atlantic coast would be considered to be a natural resource of Ireland.

Yes. I understand. A virtually unlimited natural resource, which is going untapped at the moment

Daithinski wrote: »

Don't worry, some people just don't get the bigger picture. Its nothing to be ashamed of.

I’m neither worried nor ashamed. Could you explain the big picture to me?

PJW

dvpower wrote: »

I’m neither worried nor ashamed. Could you explain the big picture to me?

He maybe referring to Ray Burke / CJH "mishandling" of other Irish Natural Resources and that history has a habbit of repeating itself.

"Burke was a key figure in the development of the new terms for oil and gas exploration and production. The major changes being introduced by him in 1987 being the tax write off, the removal of royalty payments, and the abolition of any state participation.

“There is a simplistic public notion that Irish oil and minerals belonged to the Irish people at large.” In fact the terms for oil and gas exploration and production existing then, the tax rate, royalties, licensing, and so on, were much less stringent on the oil companies than those prevalent across much of the world. Nonetheless conditions were to change and between 1987 and 1992 the terms were pared back to the extent that companies can write off production costs against tax, conceivably they may pay no tax at all. In the words of Mike Cunningham, former director of Statoil Exploration Ireland, ““No other country in the world has given such favourable terms as Ireland.

dvpower

PJW wrote: »

He maybe referring to Ray Burke / CJH "mishandling" of other Irish Natural Resources and that history has a habbit of repeating itself.

Ah. So the big picture is that in the past corrupt/inept polititians did a bad deal for us and now we can't trust our polititians with the management of our resources?

Is that it? I was hoping for something bigger.

PJW

dvpower wrote: »

Ah. So the big picture is that in the past corrupt/inept polititians did a bad deal for us and now we can't trust our polititians with the management of our resources?

Is that it? I was hoping for something bigger.

Well the deal was done in the 80's and 20years on now neither the current FF Gov or the previous collition Gov did anything to try change the deal and I'm sure it wont even come up on the agenda of a new gov.

Wave energy will probably fall into the same exploration basket where the Irish people will not see any revenue from it.

In a time of global economic meltdown and imminent fuel shortages / high purchase costs, It doesn't get any bigger than given away our natural gas, oil and wind resources.