come out of the woodwork... gwan. we know you're lurking.

elven

Since most of the threads on here concern which lens to buy, which camera to buy, and where to buy them or c&c for sharpness, saturation and straight horizons I don't tend to pop in much any more.

I'm also far more interested in photos with stories, photos with feelings, and photos that don't have IMPACT!!!! but maybe take a bit of looking at/thinking about/living with to appreciate for underlying, subtle messages. I suspect, given a few recent posts that have popped up that there are other people lurking round here who maybe feel the same way.

If you're feeling brave, come out of the corner and tell us what you like, what you shoot, what your ideas are. Or pm me and we'll start our own forum

magicbastarder

i haven't been on here in ages - mainly because in the last year, i've taken very little (no film photos for about six months, which is a reversal of previous behaviour, and reflecting that i've had little time for 'planned' photography).

funny thing is, the sort of stuff that i usually find deathly boring (the gear threads) are kinda what brought me back because i'm considering buying a camera for my dad.

Covey

I'm superglued to a rickty old fence :P

dakar

But I like lurking.....;)

elven

oh dear. Elven idea fail.

*geos back to corner*

KarmaGarda

Hang on, I actually like the idea. I'm just having a think about this to see what sort of angle I'd like to come from!

magicbastarder

anyway, what i need to get back into photography is a project. i had one idea, which fell through, of documenting a golf club which is closing down going to seed and returning to some wild form.

elven

if you look back through stuff you've done before that you really like, what does it have in common? What do you really care about?

magicbastarder

the thing for me is that i am not good at getting perspective on my shots - i find it hard to shake the memory of the photography from the photograph itself. so some shots i really like leave others cold because i have a context which everyone else lacks.

recently, in looking for shots to hang on my wall, or to aim for, i'm getting more interested in quasi abstract colours and textures in photos, more so than the subjects.

Calina

elven wrote: »

oh dear. Elven idea fail.

*geos back to corner*

I don't think you've given it enough of a chance to be honest...

Fajitas!

*geos back to corner*

It's nicer in the corner.

elven

magicbastarder wrote: »

some shots i really like leave others cold because i have a context which everyone else lacks.

maybe that's where it might work for you to do a series rather than looking at individual shots, because an idea can be made stronger that way. But if you're looking fors omething to hang on your wall, rather than write a book about, the graphic could be where it's at. In that case, the subject doesn't matter as you said yourself so you've no excuse

KarmaGarda

Sunset to Night shots are my comfort zone to be honest. But after my first try at street photography I'm determined to try more of that. Each photo can potentially be very intriguing when you examime a little closer. Here's an example that I like, but don't necessarily think is a *great* street photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karmagarda/4012178663/

But I like the different things going on in it.

Need to remember to bring the bigger brass balls with me next time though.

DaireQuinlan

15:47 ...

elven wrote: »

If you're feeling brave, come out of the corner and tell us what you like, what you shoot, what your ideas are. Or pm me and we'll start our own forum

15:59

elven wrote: »

oh dear. Elven idea fail.
*geos back to corner*

Calina wrote: »

I don't think you've given it enough of a chance to be honest...

I think I'd have to agree. 12 minutes seems too short a time to shake up the entire photography forum. I'd give it at least a quarter of an hour or so :rolleyes:

magicbastarder

elven wrote: »

maybe that's where it might work for you to do a series rather than looking at individual shots, because an idea can be made stronger that way.

i bought 21 frames recently, and the plan is to assemble 3 shots each of the ROYGBIV colours, to hang on the wall in a spectrum. the BIV ones will be the most difficult to separate out, i reckon.

potlatch

magicbastarder wrote: »

the thing for me is that i am not good at getting perspective on my shots - i find it hard to shake the memory of the photography from the photograph itself. so some shots i really like leave others cold because i have a context which everyone else lacks.

recently, in looking for shots to hang on my wall, or to aim for, i'm getting more interested in quasi abstract colours and textures in photos, more so than the subjects.

I totally get that. My photos are so influenced by the fact that I'll put them on Flickr, or they're snapshots, that when I've displayed them once or twice, they bombed.

It's brilliant practice to have a project, or even a strong perspective whenever you're somewhere travelling or whatever.

eas

Of my own shots, my favorites are the ones that I think will hold a large emotional value for the subjects or their family over time. The idea that I can capture a moment that could someday be looked at in fondness as a lasting memory of a passed loved one is really powerful and rewarding.

CabanSail

I too would really like to see more Photos & less Gear.

Thanks for raising the subject Elven.

Funny .... just today I had a bite the tongue moment. At work I put a recent image on as my Desktop on my PC to see how I can live with it & also to find out if there are things I need to adjust. Anyway this morning some of the Nurses came in came in and one said "That is a very nice photo, you have a very good camera" As I know it was meant as a compliment I took it as such.

Covey

CabanSail wrote: »

I too would really like to see more Photos & less Gear.

Thanks for raising the subject Elven.

Funny .... just today I had a bite the tongue moment. At work I put a recent image on as my Desktop on my PC to see how I can live with it & also to find out if there are things I need to adjust. Anyway this morning some of the Nurses came in came in and one said "That is a very nice photo, you have a very good camera" As I know it was meant as a compliment I took it as such.

You should have responded "and you my dear have a very good bedside manner" She'd be keeping her eyes to herself after that

Covey

Actually, I think this forum has sufferred somewhat since the Random Photo Threads have taken off. No doubt they're perfect for those apprehensive about posting and critique etc, but they do become an unwieldy mis mash of shots with no commentary or interaction.

It's become relatively rare now for anyone to post a few of their own shots on a thread, where people can probe and interact and explain.

CabanSail

Covey wrote: »

You should have responded "and you my dear have a very good bedside manner" She'd be keeping her eyes to herself after that

I am sure he would have been quite bemused :eek:

Creamy Goodness

i've lurked here for the past couple of months because of a couple of things.

1. was away for the summer with a dodgey internet connection so uploading photos was cumbersome.

2. an event happened about 2 months ago that totally has changed my life. i haven't had the will to get the camera and use it. i was forced to use it at some family events in the meantime but tbh i ****ing despised every second of it.

as much as it pains me to say it, i don't know if i'll ever get back into photography like i once was.

but to answer your other question, i like...

night shots especially ones that play with light
sweeping and unusual landscapes.
graffiti (not tags).
all things macro.
grainy film shots.

CabanSail

Sorry to hear that Creamy. Hope whatever it is improves.

rahtkennades

elven wrote: »

.....I'm also far more interested in photos with stories, photos with feelings......but maybe take a bit of looking at/thinking about/living with to appreciate for underlying, subtle messages.

I'd love to be at the point of taking subtle photographs that required me to think and plan them, and then allowed others to have to sit and look at them for a while to decipher them. Unfortunately I haven't been motivated to use my camera enough for a while to allow me to get to that point.

I think most people if they use a tool enough will become familiar enough that it enables them to express themselves a lot better with it. I would think it's easier to go for the big bang 'impact' shot than the gentler or more subtle image. But unless you're using the camera a lot, you don't 'see' the subtlety as much, or if you do, it's more difficult to translate it into the image you want.

I wonder though if it's got something to to with the medium you use as well. I use a digital camera, and as I don't have access to a printer regularly, I don't print a lot. So most of what I do ends up being squeezed through Lightroom and onto a web page. I'm thinking printing more would help me to understand the 'textures' of the images. Also the fact that my digital processing abilities leave something to be desired means that I don't necessarily get what I wanted out of a picture. I can 'see' what I want to achieve, but just can't figure how to make it happen.

I guess it's exactly the same with film as well, just using different tools and techniques, but if you don't have the practise, it's still as difficult to translate ideas onto (photo) paper.

As to what I prefer to do, I'm happiest taking outdoor scenes, landscapes or cityscapes, static objects. But I want to try to get more of a 'still life' feel out of them, ie to actually show some animation in static objects. So maybe that's part of what I need to learn how to do. Also I'd like to do some work with people, but I find it very difficult to figure what to do with human subjects!

In terms of gear vs photo threads, I think the proportion of each has ebbed and flowed a lot for as long as I've been coming here. Recently there's been a lot of gear threads, but there've been general discussion threads as well.

Covey mentions that the Random Photo Threads have lessened the amount of interaction or feedback. I remember from the first one or two of them, seeing photos that put me on to work by people I'd never have seen otherwise. It was great to get that kind of variable exposure, and it allowed people who wouldn't normally post anything to at least get something out there. But yeah, maybe I've (personally) grown a little bored of the seeming 'repetitiveness of the randomness' (if that's possible!)

So I guess in summary:
a) I'm a grumpy f4rt that's not sure what he's giving out about
b) I'd like to use my camera more and in different ways, but also to get better at what I like to do most!

Hmmm...well you got me out of lurking, but I'm not sure I've added anything to the body of human experience!

humberklog

Covey wrote: »

It's become relatively rare now for anyone to post a few of their own shots on a thread, where people can probe and interact and explain.

Hopefully not too off topic but I am genuinely confused as to the actual topic of thread. Sorry Elven:o, all respect etc., etc.
But Covey has a point. A little while back there was suggestions for new stickies or positive features and I put one forward and this was that if one really liked a pic and was interested in the the process to achieve it or indeed interested in where the 'tog gets his mojo they could simply PM the poster and ask them would they post it on a seperate thread. A rolling thread of invited pics and posters. This request doesn't have to be accepted and it doesn't have to be more complicated than that. A photograph/photographer request thread as such. The idea got over elaborated and confused in personal complications in the suggestion box.
Dear Mr. Covey has a point about how a lot of photos slip by on the Random thread where once there would have been more discussion when the pic was posted individually for C+C.

If I half get the jist of Elven's thread then perhaps the idea of a thread where a picture or poster is asked for furher discussion on their work/works/inspiration (damn there I said it...just shoot (or ban me) if I say "passion") thread could develop this l idea. It could be a good thing to help people be brave and bring them out from their corner. Not that there's anything wrong with corners. I see my corner as more of a nest.

elven

My Unlurk Thread Manifesto

I really did just as it says on the tin, want to bring people out of lurking that may not have posted in a long time because they aren't really interested in cameras or lenses or tripods or bags or which cf card is fastest, or photos that are super sharp or heavily saturated or blended multiple exposures. I wanted to let them know that there are other people who might like to discuss other elements of photography so that they may not feel so shy about posting something along those lines, or posting their images that may not fit the usual criteria for 'good'. I also hoped to fuel a discussion about that sort of stuff, along the way.

humberklog

A mojo thread? Very honourable.

I'm not one for the gimmicks and bells and whistles meself but I'm still working on how I explain it better. I need a pencil and beer mat (really, there's a simple graphic diagram involved). I was explaining it to Perfect Note a little while back...I think he understood. Or is just really polite.

elven

If you bring me a beer mat diagram I'll scan it.

I think it's a change in perception, rather than any actual documentable process. It's that when someone posts a picture for C&C, it goes a bit further than just telling them it doesn't have a wide range of tones, a foreground rock, or that their horizon is crooked...

AnCatDubh

can I go back to lurking pleawseeeeeeeeeeee.

xia

AnCatDubh wrote: »

can I go back to lurking pleawseeeeeeeeeeee.

NO!

AnCatDubh

Next months's task i guess.

KarmaGarda

I have a suggestion. I would have posted this in the suggestions thread but I can't see the bugger. And I think this is bring us right back to what elven may have been kindof getting at.

Why don't we create a couple of new sub forums so that people can get to the areas the really want? For example, I think a C&C sub forum dedicated to just that might be an idea. Maybe not just C&C, possibly a "Photo sharing and C&C" forum. And maybe an "equipment chat" sub forum. The main area can then be used for general phototraphy chat, like this thread, the random photo thread, threads that make people aware of events, maybe having a blazing row for the fun of it . etc etc.

Just a thought to tidy things up.

elven

Awww. I feel sorry for you, taking the time to make a constructive suggestion like that, knowing that it won't get anywhere. People round these parts don't be likin' sub forums, sir.

KarmaGarda

That's why it's like this! Aha I see. I'll be honest, I frequent another forum a lot more regularly than this one because of the afore mentioned "non sub-itized" melarchy. Hrmph, wanna go make our own forum then? :pac:

Covey

KG I agree with you. You only have to look at the success of the "Photo Challenge" forum, which seems to have helped a lot of people, to see the benifit of focusing the mind. I wouldn't be holding my breath though

AnCatDubh

humberklog wrote: »

A little while back there was suggestions for new stickies or positive features and I put one forward and this was that if one really liked a pic and was interested in the the process to achieve it or indeed interested in where the 'tog gets his mojo they could simply PM the poster and ask them would they post it on a seperate thread. A rolling thread of invited pics and posters. This request doesn't have to be accepted and it doesn't have to be more complicated than that. A photograph/photographer request thread as such. The idea got over elaborated and confused in personal complications in the suggestion box

Hmnnnn.... nope :: That got set up all right (i was trying to search but google aint playing ball at the moment) and invites generally to people to use with a framework for its use. The framework was what I could discern from the ideas thread.

We had one brave poster Ricky IIRC who posted as to why people liked an image of his on the random thread and duly ended up getting scolded by others as this wasn't the original intended purpose.

It did die a fairly quick death.

I was thinking about it in recent times as the random thread is rapidly descending into a chat thread which it was never intended to be. It the "random thread - chat" was in active use then perhaps it would be easier to navigate and better to engage with. If the community want the random thread to include lots of chat then there isn't a problem in altering the structure / rules to facilitate it but at the moment i'm not liking seeing a page of text posts where I hope/expect to see a page of random images (personal opinion only).

The thing about some ideas (and I include myself in here with the occasional one I have), it may be a great idea but will anyone else actually be "into" it. I mean the Sinclair C5 was such a great idea :cool: but well, the rest lies in history and ruin. (I still want one btw if anyone is clearing out your garage )

(note to self:: there are a few more gems in the ideas thread which I really need to revert back to).

CabanSail

Covey wrote: »

KG I agree with you. You only have to look at the success of the "Photo Challenge" forum, which seems to have helped a lot of people, to see the benifit of focusing the mind. I wouldn't be holding my breath though

The three Sub Forums we have now are quite well used. They are not as active as the main forum as they are specialised.

The quietest one seems to be the Expeditions one, until recently when we put all the Book stuff into there. Would that forum be better called "Photographic Expeditions & Projects"

We as Mods cannot create a Sub-Forum, but if the community wants one we can request it. If there is enough interest we will do so. I would imagine that is how we got the three we have now.

So suggest away.

magicbastarder

anyway, one of the reasons i stopped coming here, and it's a quite understandable one, is that it's much easier to talk about the nuts and bolts of photography than it is to talk about why you take photographs.
for me, it's as much about the process as the product. it helps me look at the world in a subtly different way. but talking about how much you enjoy tramping around in the frost is much more hand waving and vague than discussing the exposure you used or the filters you used.

AnCatDubh

KarmaGarda wrote: »

I have a suggestion. I would have posted this in the suggestions thread but I can't see the bugger. And I think this is bring us right back to what elven may have been kindof getting at.

Why don't we create a couple of new sub forums so that people can get to the areas the really want? For example, I think a C&C sub forum dedicated to just that might be an idea. Maybe not just C&C, possibly a "Photo sharing and C&C" forum. And maybe an "equipment chat" sub forum. The main area can then be used for general phototraphy chat, like this thread, the random photo thread, threads that make people aware of events, maybe having a blazing row for the fun of it . etc etc.

Just a thought to tidy things up.

This can be guided by the community but a couple of observations;

In my experience, such sub-forums tend to be very lonely places for people to hang out with scant activity unless you have a really large contributing user base. With really large contributing user bases it can work very well because it has mass. I have watched and participated in a few other forums and this is what i've found to be the case. I have also participated in something which has even less structured than this little forum here - literally there is a post of someone's image or set, and all hell usually breaks loose so much so that posting was limited to a single post per person per thread in recent times. That forum doesn't feature or allow gear threads, general chit chat (except for one or two notable exceptions with purpose), or technique advice. Some people find this forum a very cold and clinical place. Others love it.

In my humble opinion and given the size of our user base here which is really small in terms of actual contributors, perhaps 30 - 40, any segmentation would be detrimental (again only an opinion) by virtue of each sub forum probably being frequented by very few people with very few threads.

To bring it closer to home, many users here will be users / members of Photography Ireland which as far as I can gather is structured at present like that suggested. Its no particular criticism - merely an observation, but many of the sub forums within the site structure can be a week (sometimes with a s) without a single post. That's fine for them - they run the shop in whatever way they feel is appropriate and works for there and may be successful at it. Photo.net which are incredibly popular and have a mega global user base can even suffer from some very slow sub-forums. So, I think it's something that has to be weighed up carefully.

Boards, imho should be different otherwise we can abandon ship and clamber on board the PI express or Photo.Net cruise. My understanding of boards is that it is a place for general chat, where any horse can have an opinion (using an analogy I went with last night on something) - the trick is to know what horse has a valid opinion and what horse talks rubbish. The risk here is that without checking, the forums can and do end up with copious amounts of rubbish.

Just 98c short of a euro

KarmaGarda

That's a fair point. But I do think less people offer up photos for C&C because of it. Bit of a double edged sword maybe.

Edit: That should round you off nicely to a Euro now

Mr E

I've been lurking for a while, but haven't really posted much. Doing a photography course at the moment and still learning the basics (went full manual recently - big move for me!).

I learn alot from reading here, but feel somewhat intimidated about posting up pictures. I remember someone posted a picture here recently for C&C where my first reaction was "wow... thats really cool", but then read the comments and they were like "Too light! Too dark! Not enough detail! Too fuzzy! Should be sharper! Overprocessed! Should be cropped!" (OK, most of those weren't said, but I remember thinking that the C&C was harsh at the time)...

I guess photography is subjective - what some people like and find interesting, others will find fault with. C'est la vie...

CabainSail wrote:

The quietest one seems to be the Expeditions one, until recently when we put all the Book stuff into there. Would that forum be better called "Photographic Expeditions & Projects"

How about a Photo Blog/Diary? There are some photographers here whose work I really admire - if they had their own personal musings, favourite shots, new shots etc in one thread, I'd subscribe and follow with great interest. A bit like the Fitness Logs forum.

Covey

I think what some of us are on about here are posting photos for the sake of the photo, not really for C&C (though people could be free to do that of course). Things like why you took the photo, what it might mean, where it might fit, what it might express. I think a place for that would be good. A place to discuss, debate and interact, that's not really the function of the Random Threads.

Not sure about the photo expeditions thread though. The Book threads were buried in there mainly and as someone who never visits that part of the site I almost missed them.

elven

Mr E wrote: »

How about a Photo Blog/Diary? There are some photographers here whose work I really admire - if they had their own personal musings, favourite shots, new shots etc in one thread, I'd subscribe and follow with great interest. A bit like the Fitness Logs forum.

That's pretty cool, although it kind of overlaps if someone already has a blog. But not many people are big on the why and how, apart from andy mcinroy who generally gives us the story behind his photos.

If you had someone in mind, all you have to do is ask...

Calina

KarmaGarda wrote: »

That's a fair point. But I do think less people offer up photos for C&C because of it. Bit of a double edged sword maybe.

Edit: That should round you off nicely to a Euro now

I think that the Random threads have perhaps led to a fall off in C&C threads to be honest, and not the lack of segmentation in the forum itself.

There was some suggestion a few months ago that we perhaps drop Random for a while. I'm not sure how that would go down but I can see the validity in it.

For myself, I haven't been posting too much here for the last few months because I had a lot of other stuff on the agenda anyway. I am considering going back into the C&C mill for the simple reason that I tended to get a lot of out of it.

Covey

I don't see it as either or. I think the Random thread serves a good purpose. Why we can't we have both?

Calina

I don't either. But it's interesting that a lot of people are using Random instead of throwing up C&C. I've done this myself for the last 3 or 4 months.

It's more a voting with feet than implementing a rule if you like.

elven

i suspect a lot of c&c threads weren't really for c&c they were just 'look what i did'.

DaireQuinlan

elven wrote: »

i suspect a lot of c&c threads weren't really for c&c they were just 'look what i did'.

Yeah thats mostly what mine were, the few that I put up at least. In fairness, I never put C&C in the title. However I've never really thought about why I wasn't really into getting C&C. Maybe I thought the pictures weren't worth it, or were really only of interest to myself and maybe one or two others. Maybe I thought I could anticipate myself what everyone would say about a particular shot and so already had justifications and rebutals lined up, the entire thread already laid out in my head. I'm inclined to be a bit contrary anyway, if someone said something in a constructively critical manner I'd probably take against it immediately and do the opposite anyway. Maybe I'm doomed to mediocrity for good. A sort of cranky mediocrity at least, I hope :rolleyes:

elven

No harm in it though, it just shows that's what people want to do if they are happy with the random thread and no feedback.

It'd be better if people who actually did want proper c&c put a bit more effort into it.

Cranky mediocrity is good. I may be with you on that one.

bovril

It's been a while since I've posted here. I do check in every few days but most of the time now I don't even read threads. I don't seem too have much time since the beginning of summer to get out with my camera. I haven't taken a shot of a bird in months and I think I've been to the bots once since June . Hopefully that will change in November.

humberklog

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Hmnnnn.... nope :: That got set up all right (i was trying to search but google aint playing ball at the moment) and invites generally to people to use with a framework for its use. The framework was what I could discern from the ideas thread.

We had one brave poster Ricky IIRC who posted as to why people liked an image of his on the random thread and duly ended up getting scolded by others as this wasn't the original intended purpose.

It did die a fairly quick death.

I was thinking about it in recent times as the random thread is rapidly descending into a chat thread which it was never intended to be. It the "random thread - chat" was in active use then perhaps it would be easier to navigate and better to engage with. If the community want the random thread to include lots of chat then there isn't a problem in altering the structure / rules to facilitate it but at the moment i'm not liking seeing a page of text posts where I hope/expect to see a page of random images (personal opinion only).

Noooo sirree. The thread that came along was an invitation to vainglory one's skills. My idea is of a rolling thread where someone has expressed an interest in a photo or photographer and would like to enquire more.

The thread that was would really only attract those that have no problem in coming out from the corners anyway. My idea would lend itself more to coaxing people out who may be more reticent (I put myself in that group).

Mind you I like your idea better, the one of simply allowing discussion on the Random Thread. Think you've got a great idea there, one that could really lend itself to discussion and inform.