come out of the woodwork... gwan. we know you're lurking.

AnCatDubh

I sometimes question peoples shooting motives on thread before placing C&C or caution to the fact that "here's a criticism but I'm not sure if that was what you are actually looking for". We could incorporate the necessity to give a context into the C&C charter rules.

I would actually like to see a bit more from C&C in general. I see there being a requirement for 3 levels of it;

There is the entry level of drop an image on a thread, place C&C in the title, then argue the heck out of it if anyone doesn't like it (joking - most people take it in good sted). For newbies and C&C virgins I think it is important that they can do this. In the absence of what they feel about the image in question, they most likely are looking for stuff like the horizon straightening, the out of focus, the saturation levels, Did I do well, minor clap on the back.

At the next level - Once you've been about the place for a bit and your inhibitions are gone I think you should be describing the image, what you get out of it, what you'd like to know from people about it. At that stage you probably are shooting things that you like anyhow / are reasonably competent in the technicalities and may not even care most of the time what the world thinks of your images - you just enjoy them and that's good enough.

Finally, there is a level we don't see often / enough, where a complete story telling set / project is displayed in all its finery and at a much deeper level, no longer do the technicalities of the photography matter - it is as they are displayed, but there is a deeper emotion or feeling in such a project which becomes the center of the debate. The day in the life photojournalism type of thing - the living with aids type of shoot which Tallon linked up on the OOF thread, whores/pimps/and drug takers and makers, family breakdown, disturbance, deprivation, joy, death, friday nights in Temple Bar - well whatever the project is. Such C&C is more debating of the issue being explored and what the photography is saying rather than the horizon straightening/sharpness/etc... How and ever, are people willing to do that in this type of format (boards) and is the boards format applicable for such a viewing.

I also suspect of boards photography forum users/lurkers/lapsed posters/whatever your having yourself, that as people go through their photographic journey, that the kind of C&C which is on offer/available here on boards isn't overly relevant to their need. It is to an early point but that they need to move along the path of C&C something like i've expressed above.

I mean there is nothing stopping any really experienced and to my mind great photographer who is a lapsed poster here, from posting a single image, multiple images, or indeed a whole project. The reason why they don't I suspect is contained above. But that's only a hunch.

dakar

This is a topic that's I've been turning over in my head for a fair while now. Unfortunately, I seem to be going in circles. The biggest problem for me seems to be defining what it is I want from photography, and as a follow on from that, how I go about achieving it.

The easy path is to tread water, stick some stuff up on pix.ie and the random thread here and accept the compliments if and when they arrive and not go actively seeking constructive criticism.

If I'm honest, there are a mix of reasons why I don't, some fear of rejection, a streak of arrogance ('well I like it and that's all that matters to me') and the fact that I'd find it difficult to accept criticism from those whose opinion I don't necessarily respect (mostly on admittedly irrational basis of their online persona and whatever of their own work I've seen).

The flipside of this is that it's difficult to improve in a vacuum. Which means you need to find an outlet for someone to appraise what you do. I tried my local camera club (was even chairperson last year) and found that whereas I could produce images that did well in club competitions, they weren't the shots I liked. Our standard club format was to enter three prints in the competition and my usual thing was to enter one that I thought would do well in the voting (hopefully sharp, well composed and exposed, a photo of something, and hopefully with IMPACT!), a middle of the road type image and one I really liked myself (usually pretty dark in tone and meaning, slightly abstract). Sure enough the camera-club-friendly images did well and my own favourites generally got ignored.

Of course all this proves is that what I like is on a slightly different wavelength to the members of my local camera club. So the uptopian ideal for me would be to have a better, more photographically talented version of me critiquing my work and pushing me to improve!

Failing this, I'd love a space to exist where a more rounded discussion of a given image could take place other that the technical aspects of the shot. I still haven't replied to the query in the thread on pinhole photography as to why I'd want to take a photo with a zone plate rather than take a regular photo and blur it in photoshop. It's like asking why I prefer a particular flavour of icecream. I just do. I like the process of producing an image as much as the image itself. I like experimenting.

So a space where you can talk about your motivation and what drives you to do what you do, that doesn't necessarily get hung up on the technical (but doesn't rule out discussion of it) where only people you like and respect can contribute, all of whose feedback will make you a better photographer. Surely that's not too much to ask for!:D

Covey

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Finally, there is a level we don't see often / enough, where a complete story telling set / project is displayed in all its finery and at a much deeper level, no longer do the technicalities of the photography matter - it is as they are displayed, but there is a deeper emotion or feeling in such a project which becomes the center of the debate. The day in the life photojournalism type of thing - the living with aids type of shoot which Tallon linked up on the OOF thread, whores/pimps/and drug takers and makers, family breakdown, disturbance, deprivation, joy, death, friday nights in Temple Bar - well whatever the project is. Such C&C is more debating of the issue being explored and what the photography is saying rather than the horizon straightening/sharpness/etc... How and ever, are people willing to do that in this type of format (boards) and is the boards format applicable for such a viewing.

My highlights.

I think you're describing what Boards Photography is, not what it could be.

There is constant reference and wrightly so, to including all including the guy/gal, who picked up a camera yesterday. But, as you've described acurately above, Boards for various reasons looses it appeal somewhat to those at what you described as the final level. A lot leave as there is little or no outlet here for them. Thats a big pity as most have something to give back to the community at that stage and everyone could benefit. Maybe we should look at evolving rather than standing still!!

Surely it doesn't have to be that way and we should be all inclusive at all ends of the stick?

humberklog

This may seam a silly question but what's IMPACT? I see Mr. Dakar and Ms. Elven (it's formal Tuesday, didn't you know?) have both used this word and I was wondering if it is a word one uses to describe a genre in a camera club or is it just intended to mean a strong image?
I'm not really up on stuff and speak so my simple enough understanding may not be the photograph's world definition. Sorry once again if it sounds stupid, but I don't like to be left out.

AnCatDubh

well using my horse analogy of the last 24 hours which I appear to be getting good mileage from (horse miles that is);

We have all the horses at the water, now how to get them to drink?

Covey

humberklog wrote: »

This may seam a silly question but what's IMPACT? I see Mr. Dakar and Ms. Elven (it's formal Tuesday, didn't you know?) have both used this word and I was wondering if it is a word one uses to describe a genre in a camera club or is it just intended to mean a strong image?
I'm not really up on stuff and speak so my simple enough understanding may not be the photograph's world definition. Sorry once again if it sounds stupid, but I don't like to be left out.

Using an anology that you might well be familiar with.

A pair of red patent shoes hanging on the ticker tape of a murder scene. Thats impact :D

humberklog

Covey wrote: »

Using an anology that you might well be familiar with.

A pair of red patent shoes hanging on the ticker tape of a murder scene. Thats impact :D

Yikes!!!:pac: I was only after getting over that (and straight into a slightly nuttier scenario:o). I still think the dear in the park are looking at me funny, but I always thought that mind you. Or at least since the bloody butterfly debacle.

So it's just a stong storeyboarded image?

KarmaGarda

dakar wrote: »

If I'm honest, there are a mix of reasons why I don't, some fear of rejection, a streak of arrogance ('well I like it and that's all that matters to me') and the fact that I'd find it difficult to accept criticism from those whose opinion I don't necessarily respect (mostly on admittedly irrational basis of their online persona and whatever of their own work I've seen).

Very interesting statement ! One I both agree and disagree with.

I will agree with as in most photographers develop into this as they improve. They strive to get almost approval from fellow photographers, usually the more experienced, because that is who they are striving to become. I can see myself already doing this, and I'm not near the level some of you guys are at.

I disagree with this in that why do we do this? You don't have to be a photographer to know how to critique an image. But yet, if you haven't held a camera in your life the nose get's turn up at your critique. I'm including myself in that statement too. But here's the thing. The really top photographers don't take photos for other photographers. So why do these "top photographers" seek C&C from those who are at the same level, or, from the photogs own perspective, a higher standard than us? Should we not be seeking C&C from those who want to buy our images?

Ok, not everyone is selling their images, but I for one like others to like my photos. But as Dakar pointed out, I mainly take them for myself.

Anyway, it's just a thought to ponder.

dakar

humberklog wrote: »

This may seam a silly question but what's IMPACT? I see Mr. Dakar and Ms. Elven (it's formal Tuesday, didn't you know?) have both used this word and I was wondering if it is a word one uses to describe a genre in a camera club or is it just intended to mean a strong image?

Mr Humberklog,

If I may respond to your query, IMPACT is what a lot of camera clubs and I suppose internet forums seem to place a lot of store by. It's wow factor, stop you in your tracks, attention grabbing quality in a shot.

It's obviously not a bad thing in itself but I used it in a vaguely derogatory tone for the simple reason that images that don't have 'it', that are a little more subtle and rely as much on the context of the shot as much as the image presented tend to get dismissed.

Yours truly

Mr dakar

TelePaul

Where have YOU been lurking Elven?

Shiny

Also haven't posted here in ages either.

I could probably count on one hand the number of times
I have taken photos since last Christmas.

I found my flat had been burgled yesterday and as I looked
at the smashed door I was sure everything was gone, my camera
and pc (with all my photos, including backups). Amazingly only a
laptop was taken but for a minute I thought 5 years worth of
photographs were gone.

Of all the things that could have been robbed, only the photos
were my concern. Perhaps this is the motivation I need to get
back into it again (and do a regular off site backup).

elven

KarmaGarda wrote: »

The really top photographers don't take photos for other photographers. So why do these "top photographers" seek C&C from those who are at the same level, or, from the photogs own perspective, a higher standard than us? Should we not be seeking C&C from those who want to buy our images?

Firstly, how do you judge who a 'top photographer' is? Sales? Magazine spreads? Famousnessness? Respect of their peers? Or someone who is just happy with what they are coming up with?

From my own point of view as a photographer who isn't trying to make money out of this carry on and is just trying to get some sort of satisfaction that i'm doing what i can do as well as i can do it, i'm looking for a different kind of feedback. I know how to make something sharp and well exposed and with nice composition and correctly use depth of field, and when i don't do that stuff it's because i choose not to. But the area that I want some advice in is a lot trickier for someone to talk about, because they can't just point out a crooked horizon. If i may use a new favourite quote of mine regarding crit:

Editing should be, especially in the case of old writers, a counseling rather than a collaborating task. The tendency of the writer-editor to collaborate is natural, but he should say to himself, “How can I help this writer to say it better in his own style?” and avoid “How can I show him how I would write it, if it were my piece?”

(By James Thurber apparently, found here)

Can someone identify a vein of gold running through the rock wall of my photography? (didja like that? i just thought it up, all by myself ) Is there someone who can give a fresh perspective on what I'm doing to help me really hone in on any quality ideas i have, and bring them to the forefront of my efforts, but without putting that 'this is how i'd do it' slant on it? Sometimes it's even about asking the right questions, rather than saying what you think of something - 'did you do ___ on purpose?' 'why is ___ so prominent in the scene?' 'this makes me feel ___, does that relate to what you were thinking at the time?'...

That's pretty difficult to do unless you're willing to put quite a lot of thought and effort into it, and also, getting to know the photographer and what their ideas are behind the pictures, and looking at lots of their pictures and not just one, and looking at them for more than 5 seconds each.

I'm not sure boards is a place where that could happen. But I thought there might just be someone else at that sort of crossroads around here who would be interested in doing something along those lines, within whatever framework.

KarmaGarda

elven wrote: »

Firstly, how do you judge who a 'top photographer' is? Sales? Magazine spreads? Famousnessness? Respect of their peers? Or someone who is just happy with what they are coming up with?

Ah, just a turn of phrase. I'm mainly referring to a photographer who is highly respected in their field of work. But then again maybe not. It can also refer to someone who may not be known at all, yet produces photographs that could potentially astound a multitude of people. On the other hand, it might just be johnny with his point and shoot gettin praise from his mammy.

Chorcai

elven wrote: »

i suspect a lot of c&c threads weren't really for c&c they were just 'look what i did'.

Or help on how to fix XYZ issues and get tips/advise.

humberklog

dakar wrote: »

It's obviously not a bad thing in itself but I used it in a vaguely derogatory tone for the simple reason that images that don't have 'it', that are a little more subtle and rely as much on the context of the shot as much as the image presented tend to get dismissed.

Aaah, rightyhoso. Mind you I myself do sometimes try for a touch of impact (or wow) with a twist of subtlety and other days it's subtlety with a pinch of wow. That's what I try for but some days the wow turns out to be meh with a dash of bah! Or phooey with a twist of huh? Which in themselves aren't such a bad thing.

Thanks ever so much for the clarification.
Sincerely (enough) Mr HK.

dakar

humberklog wrote: »

That's what I try for but some days the wow turns out to be meh with a dash of bah! Or phooey with a twist of huh? Which in themselves aren't such a bad thing.

Exactly, I'm not agin shots with wow factor, but I love shots that make me think, that have a bit going on beneath the surface, that have stories woven into them.

Long live the happy accident and the unexpectedly interesting image that might pass under the radar on a hyperactive scroll through the random thread.

magicbastarder

instead of impact, i've a general rule of thumb for photos, which i'm about to semi formalise; they would fall into a few categories:

1. i would actively seek to hang it on my wall
2. nice photo, but wouldn't be too pushed about going to the trouble of hanging it.
3. not pushed about it, but wouldn't get round to taking it off the wall.
4. would immediately remove it from the wall.
5. would question the sanity of anyone who a) thought it was worth taking in the first place, b) went to the trouble of printing it, and c) compounded the two gross errors already committed by going to the expense and bother of hanging and framing it.

Covey

5. would question the sanity of anyone who a) thought it was worth taking in the first place, b) went to the trouble of printing it, and c) compounded the two gross errors already committed by going to the expense and bother of hanging and framing it.

Now you're getting what this is all about :pac::pac::pac:

eas

magicbastarder wrote: »

5. would question the sanity of anyone who a) thought it was worth taking in the first place, b) went to the trouble of printing it, and c) compounded the two gross errors already committed by going to the expense and bother of hanging and framing it.

I've got loads of category 5s. Maybe we should start sharing our worst work, as a sort of IMPACT cleansing exercise..?

To be honest, these days the random thread is pretty much the only thing that keeps me coming back. I do read the odd "super nova" thread for entertainment factor and make a few comments here and there on subject specific questions, but mostly these days I just look at all of your pretty pictures.


.

AnCatDubh

eas wrote: »

To be honest, these days the random thread is pretty much the only thing that keeps me coming back. I do read the odd "super nova" thread for entertainment factor and make a few comments here and there on subject specific questions, but mostly these days I just look at all of your pretty pictures.

I think that's fine too. Everybody will have different levels of engagement depending on such variable factors as how busy they are personally, what their interest is, is the community discussing issues that are interesting to them.

I'm sure some sociologist could draw an xy graph for any on-line forum with time along the bottom and enthusiasm along the side and it would peak early for most people demonstrating great enthusiasm then levelling off or for some waning away.

But rather than getting trapped in the mindset of that is how things are rather than how thing can be, question to the floor - how can this community buck that trend? Is it a buck-able trend at all. If someone moves house, gets married, starts a family, changes job, or simply loses interest because they have moved into a photographic space that not many others of the community are in, then how does the community provide for or retain the engagement of such people.

Calina

AnCatDubh wrote: »

But rather than getting trapped in the mindset of that is how things are rather than how thing can be, question to the floow - how can this community buck that trend? Is it a buck-able trend at all. If someone moves house, gets married, starts a family, changes job, or simply loses interest because they have moved into a photographic space that not many others of the community are in, then how does the community provide for or retain the engagement of such people.

I'm of the opinion the forum is as people post. If some people feel there's a lack of something, it's up to them either to create that something or go somewhere that it already is...In other words, it's very easy to say "this doesn't fulfill my needs, do something about it" - it's the "Entertain Us" school of thought. Very passive.

The only way that content gets changed is if people post it. different things. Sometimes new ideas die a death, sometimes we run with them. Random was a new idea and it took off...

dakar

AnCatDubh wrote: »

how does the community provide for or retain the engagement of such people.

I think that might be the fundamental issue. It may not be possible because by it's very nature a public forum, is, well, public .

It's relatively easy to discuss sharpness, composition, all the technical stuff. I personally don't feel particularly comfortable launching my motivations, emotions and (God forbid), feelings into a domain where I have no control of who reads it and what interpretation they put on the words I type.

For that kind of thing, I'd prefer a face to face situation.

Anouilh

This thread seems to highlight why I like the Flickr system so much.

It is so big that the groups cater for every style of photography and whenever I start a new project I join a group there that has many examples similar to what I am trying to achieve.

A forum is very different and is much more personal. The discussion on Sunday in relation to greatness looked like running forever. In the meantime, I was trying out some more printing ideas, which would be virtually impossible to share here as the hands-on usage of an Epson Color 440 is a niche activity.

Also I started thinking about how to reach a wider audience when it comes to sharing images and ideas. This forum does very well and over time I have learned to anticipate the sort of work that different members will produce. The street photography threads in particular are full of innovative images and very good ideas.

Within the parameters of what is available here and given the relatively small group of regular posters, there is not much more we could do to make the Forum more lively, I think.

I started another blog, just as much to try out different Blogger templates:

http://widgetinghour.blogspot.com/

Perhaps sharing more ideas on how to present our work on the net could be useful?
It comes up quite often.

AnCatDubh

dakar wrote: »

I personally don't feel particularly comfortable launching my motivations, emotions and (God forbid), feelings into a domain where I have no control of who reads it and what interpretation they put on the words I type.

That's actually quite reasonable. The burnmagazine site is one that I love to visit. Everything on it is edgy filled with emotion and feeling. It regularly challenges me. Constantly the photographers statements which attach to each essay get lambasted for the dross included that photographers appear to be unable explain things clearly and in a way which the audience will appreciate. So, you are probably quite right in your approach and reservations.

Perhaps images should speak for themselves. But speaking from personal experience, often the general public and even other photographers don't get it. For some, your image has to be perfectly centered, bright and cheery. Some people genuinely won't go beyond that. They may not have the capacity. They may not want to be in a position where they admire a difficult subject as treated by a photographer. Sometimes further development into the photographic realm or perhaps that's the artistic realm which I am referring to, can be alienating and a desolate place until you find like minded people.

I was at the Irish Museum of modern art during the summer months and the display (can't remember who it was by) was in my opinion absolutely terrible - BUT - the only reason that it is terrible is that I don't understand what it was all about, the motivation of it, the feeling that it was supposed to convey, where it was coming from. I got nothing from it. Zero. That doesn't mean that there wasn't merit in the work. It just means that myself and the artist who was responsible probably wouldn't have much to chat about if you put us both onto an on-line forum together. We may have some chance if you put us into a room together.

Similarly while I admire much of the work of some of our lapsed posters / lurkers, I suspect that they will be in a place that I have no idea about or where they are coming from. To offer C&C will probably be futile. And, for them to explain in written text can often get lost in the translation like the burnmagazine example I used and like the feeling that Darren expresses.

<- at the point of saying 'i dunno'

Anouilh

AnCatDubh wrote: »

...

Finally, there is a level we don't see often / enough, where a complete story telling set / project is displayed in all its finery and at a much deeper level, no longer do the technicalities of the photography matter - it is as they are displayed, but there is a deeper emotion or feeling in such a project which becomes the center of the debate. The day in the life photojournalism type of thing - the living with aids type of shoot which Tallon linked up on the OOF thread, whores/pimps/and drug takers and makers, family breakdown, disturbance, deprivation, joy, death, friday nights in Temple Bar - well whatever the project is. Such C&C is more debating of the issue being explored and what the photography is saying rather than the horizon straightening/sharpness/etc... How and ever, are people willing to do that in this type of format (boards) and is the boards format applicable for such a viewing.
...

This degree of committment to posting a time-line or series of photos that lead to narrative would probably not appeal to an average forum poster.

This would normally be the work of a professional or of a very seriously committed amateur and such work would probably be presented in the form of an exhibition, with work printed and framed, I think.

Calina

Anouilh wrote: »

This degree of committment to posting a time-line or series of photos that lead to narrative would probably not appeal to an average forum poster.

This would normally be the work of a professional or of a very seriously committed amateur and such work would probably be presented in the form of an exhibition, with work printed and framed, I think.

I disagree strongly with this. I think you'll find that in addition to the froth, a lot of people have little projects going on the backburner and they may not necessarily just be in the form of an exhibition/work printed and framed. Abandonedboats (see my sig) is running exclusively on the web, I expect it to take a life time in some respects and there will an ebook of it available at some stage.

There is no such thing as an average forum poster either.

dakar

AnCatDubh wrote: »

<- at the point of saying 'i dunno'

Don't frown, it is what it is

I can see that as someone who is commited to making this forum the most all-inclusive place it can be for all levels of photographer, you could get disillusioned with not being able to engage everybody. A forum like ours is very well suited to lots of things, it's a superb resource for people getting more interested in photography, a pretty good repository for gear threads and occasionally a great spot for the odd robust debate.

Maybe there's a way to foster the more in-depth discussion of a photographers outlook as well as individual images (like the Q&A threads that petered out) but I'm not sure what it is.

To follow on from Elven's quote, I'll leave you with another, this time from Dorothy Parker 'You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think'.

AnCatDubh

dakar wrote: »

'You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think'.

->

AnCatDubh

Anouilh wrote: »

This degree of committment to posting a time-line or series of photos that lead to narrative would probably not appeal to an average forum poster.

I'm not sure does it not appeal to people or is it that their photographic journey hasn't headed in that particular direction and may never head in that direction. If so, they probably get stuck at phase II where they are at the moment and good luck to those who are if it is this that makes them happiest about their photography.

I don't know how to define an average forum poster as I think there are lots of individual characters / characteristics on the forum. But you may be correct in that perhaps the majority of people on the forum (and with this read - on the majority of internet forums) don't think about their photography as projects or something to be fulfilled in the longer term. Perhaps, their realm of reason when it comes to photography is the simple snapshots - maybe improved into carefully constructed photographs are single issue, single place, single time, single subject.

I think not everyone wants to be at the later stage of what I described earlier. The majority of people may not 'get it' - the 'it' being that which you do. It can be an isolated place.

It depends on the person. They may want the instant gratification of "I shot this picture 5 minutes ago and now can show to the world" instead of sitting on them, churning over them, including other related images with them, attempting a storyboard, etc... If the former, then that's fine too. This indeed is the beauty of photography. The latter is hard work, may not be overly enticing and can be a damn lonely place to be if you don't have the right outlet.

I think some people just want to shoot photographs without any greater or higher meaning and there is nothing wrong with that either. But a void or chasm then begins with others that may be into advancing into that third level.

/ takes rambling head off.

Covey

Anouilh wrote: »

This degree of committment to posting a time-line or series of photos that lead to narrative would probably not appeal to an average forum poster.

This would normally be the work of a professional or of a very seriously committed amateur and such work would probably be presented in the form of an exhibition, with work printed and framed, I think.

You don't need to post a series of images as you would exhibit them. One or two images would be plenty and an explanation of the series, if there is one.

Your other comment previously "
Within the parameters of what is available here and given the relatively small group of regular posters, there is not much more we could do to make the Forum more lively, I think."
I would also take issue with. There's always something you can do and if don't keep it fresh people leave and thats happened a hell of a lot on this forum. There may well be relatively few people posting here, but a hell of a lot more have left. Why?

Which brings me nicely on to "the average poster forum" comment above. Why does everything have to appeal to the average ? Can the average not move itself one way or the other? Is there not room for everyone on here, including those who don't aspire to the average, in any meaning of that word?. From a lot of the posts, not least that of ACD above, it appears there may well not be.

In which case maybe those interested should consider moving the topic to another forum, be it internet based or other?

AnCatDubh

Covey wrote: »

Your other comment previously

Within the parameters of what is available here and given the relatively small group of regular posters, there is not much more we could do to make the Forum more lively, I think.

I would also take issue with. There's always something you can do and if don't keep it fresh people leave and thats happened a hell of a lot on this forum. There may well be relatively few people posting here, but a hell of a lot more have left. Why?

I think you are quite correct that there's always something you can do. Calina had an interesting observation offered earlier on that particular point.

Calina wrote: »

I'm of the opinion the forum is as people post. If some people feel there's a lack of something, it's up to them either to create that something or go somewhere that it already is...In other words, it's very easy to say "this doesn't fulfill my needs, do something about it" - it's the "Entertain Us" school of thought. Very passive.

The only way that content gets changed is if people post it. different things. Sometimes new ideas die a death, sometimes we run with them. Random was a new idea and it took off...

I asked earlier on thread about having the horse at the water but maybe the horse doesn't want to drink.

I mean, in agreeing with what you have already said, why is it that people stop posting, the enthusiasm fades, and the interactions wane? I offered some analysis earlier but that is only opinion. Could it be the natural tendency of human to machine/forum interaction.

Personally speaking, i've wandered away from other forums too and maybe will do so here eventually. The reasons are probably in all honesty me rather than the forums in question.

Covey

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I mean, in agreeing with what you have already said, why is it that people stop posting, the enthusiasm fades, and the interactions wane? I offered some analysis earlier but that is only opinion. Could it be the natural tendency of human to machine/forum interaction.

Personally speaking, i've wandered away from other forums too and maybe will do so here eventually. The reasons are probably in all honesty me rather than the forums in question.

There's probably some of that. But what about the people who leave because the forum doesn't offer them what their looking for. You've stated it clearly in your post above. I think this is what a lot of this thread is about.

Calina

AnCatDubh wrote: »

I mean, in agreeing with what you have already said, why is it that people stop posting, the enthusiasm fades, and the interactions wane?

well I can only speak for me but part of it related to the fact that prior to quitting moderating I had taken an almight bashing on a regular basis over the previous six months. That gets tiring.

Also, I've been very busy with other stuff. That's the way off it sometimes.

It's not so much the content because I strongly believe you can drive the content and I used to try very hard to do that.

Covey

elven wrote: »

Since most of the threads on here concern which lens to buy, which camera to buy, and where to buy them or c&c for sharpness, saturation and straight horizons I don't tend to pop in much any more.

From the very first line of this thread, Calina. And I agree wholeheartedly with that statement.

Calina

But why is that? Is it because the people who are interested in other things, other concepts aren't actually starting threads?

Covey

Calina wrote: »

But why is that? Is it because the people who are interested in other things, other concepts aren't actually starting threads?

Yes they are not. Very few people are posting photos, and that surely is what this site is about, outside of the Random thread, which as I've said before doesn't suit everyone.

There doesn't appear to be a forum on here for other things. An Cat Dubh's post a bit further up articulated this well.

For example your brave post of today. Where will it be in a months time, lost in the large intestine of the Boards Photography forum, thats where. Now if there was somewhere to reference and revisit this type of post it would be a much more interesting section for some of us, not interested in the camera gear etc.

Horse at water prepared to stick his head in

KarmaGarda

Which brings me back to stirring up the sub-forum idea...

*pours water for the horse...*

Calina

Covey wrote: »

For example your brave post of today. Where will it be in a months time, lost in the large intestine of the Boards Photography forum, thats where. Now if there was somewhere to reference and revisit this type of post it would be a much more interesting section for some of us, not interested in the camera gear etc.

Horse at water prepared to stick his head in

Ah see, I have other plans for getting photographs and photographers to the fore. I fully expect the dereliction photograph to have buried itself in a month. The impetus is on me to come up with something new and different in that time scale.

We kept trying to kill the gear threads by marshalling them into a sticky at one stage.

Covey

Thats what I was on about. It appears to be the only solution to me.

EDIT - There are three sub-fora as stands. None of them remotely interest me and I never visit them. Thats grand because others are in interested and do visit them. Now I'm pretty sure some members won't be interested in this too, but some would. Whats the difference, or are we back to the average thing again.

Eirebear

On the sub-forum idea.

Why not try and make the "Gear threads" inot a sub forum rather than putting the photography discussion, photographs and critique into a sub forum?

Surely they are what this forum is all about? It seems a shame to hide them in a corner when in my opinion a forum full of photographs and images is far more appealing to someone just dropping by than a forum full of gear threads?

AnCatDubh

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Which brings me back to stirring up the sub-forum idea...

*pours water for the horse...*

Well, if we didn't go mad with multiple sub forum which would then become as bad as our stickies we could give it a try. No harm to be done. And if it didn't work out then they can all revert back to the main forum.

I'd like to hear a little more from other forum members though. We could be guilty of listening to and agreeing with ourselves and we appear to be into a 5-6 person discussion (enjoyable and worthwhile as it is).

AnCatDubh

Eirebear wrote: »

On the sub-forum idea.

Why not try and make the "Gear threads" inot a sub forum rather than putting the photography discussion, photographs and critique into a sub forum?

Surely they are what this forum is all about? It seems a shame to hide them in a corner when in my opinion a forum full of photographs and images is far more appealing to someone just dropping by than a forum full of gear threads?

excellent thinking

/smacks head muttering why didn't I think of that

Covey

AnCatDubh wrote: »

We could be guilty of listening to and agreeing with ourselves and we appear to be into a 5-6 person discussion (enjoyable and worthwhile as it is).

So what if we are. 20% of the users is a respectable amount. And if it's there and promoted right others will I'm sure come along.

KarmaGarda

Eirebear wrote: »

On the sub-forum idea.

Why not try and make the "Gear threads" inot a sub forum rather than putting the photography discussion, photographs and critique into a sub forum?

Surely they are what this forum is all about? It seems a shame to hide them in a corner when in my opinion a forum full of photographs and images is far more appealing to someone just dropping by than a forum full of gear threads?

AnCatDubh wrote: »

excellent thinking

/smacks head muttering why didn't I think of that

Spot on, why didn't we think of this! :pac:

DaireQuinlan

Wasn't this suggested before though ? And the prevailing opinion was IIRC that everyone would just ignore the sub-forum anyway (in much the same way everyone ignores that sticky ATM), thus giving the mods the thankless task of moving a pile of threads every day. Personally I'd like to see all sports related threads get their own sub-forum

Calina

We're coming into a bad time on the gear threads front anyway. From about now onwards we will mostly get the "my girlfriend/boyfriend/niece/grand daughter is mad interested in photography and we want to get them a good camera for less than 100E what do you recommend" style threads.

Fajitas!

Calina wrote: »

We kept trying to kill the gear threads by marshalling them into a sticky at one stage.

And at the moment, it appears the current trend is killing discussions on links, books, and everything else which is apparently off topic. :rolleyes:

And I agree wholeheartedly with that statement.

Ditto.

humberklog

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Which brings me back to stirring up the sub-forum idea...

*pours water for the horse...*

Takes horse down with deft use of blow pipe and tranqs and inserts venflon with saline solution into said horse and whispers in the dobbins ear "let the Random Thread work harder for the forum".


I seldom get involved in other's C+C threads or set my own pics for C+C.

When someone plonks their's up on a seperate thread I feel that it really is only about the photos shown and that narrows down the evoltution of discussion on that genre, 'tog's mojo at the time and well...it's kinda rude and out of place to pass a personal criticism (as opposed to general criticism) of the work.
I seldom post pics for C+C because...well it's a bit deflating when there's little or no response. Even though this is mostly probably (hopefully) only because...well maybe others are like me in why I don't comment often.

There is a good simple example of a good rolling thread that has pics, suggestions, tips and preferences and that is the Combing the Streets thread. Started by Anouilh. A few months back it has a nice little pace to it and people popping in and out, new names and old hats. Street photography isn't everyones cuppa but it is just a good example of a successful rolling thread.


Note to Mods...please, please don't stickie it. Stickies very often ruin a good idea. Stickitis is a silent, blind and often deadly curse.

DaireQuinlan

humberklog wrote: »

There is a good simple example of a good rolling thread that has pics, suggestions, tips and preferences and the is the Combing the Streets thread. Started by Anouilh. A few months back it has a nice little pace to it and people popping. Street photography isn't everyones cuppa but it is just a good example of a successful rolling thread.

The problem with these 'rolling threads' if they're not stickied, is that people almost immediately forget about them as soon as they leave the front page. Everyone except for Anouilh of course. It requires Anouilh to make a post in one of them for it to appear again on the front page. It garners a few extra posts, and then quietly slips back into obscurity until the next time they're dragged back into prominence. I don't think they should be stickied either, but in a forum like this one where prominence is based purely on date of last post I can't really see those type of threads working.

Covey

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

but in a forum like this one where prominence is based purely on date of last post I can't really see those type of threads working.

Unless they're in a dedicated sub forum ...