Would the IMF approve of 200 people in Met Eireann, at an annual cost of 23 million ?

Absurdum

jimmmy wrote: »

Hi again Absurdum, I can assure you I have no trouble reading your posts. When the government website says it has " a staff of 200, and an annual budget of around €23m." I quote that and leave it at that.

So you have no interest in listening to any details, yet you're still calling for 20% or 40% cuts to this budget, which would most probably lead to larger costs to the state due to subsequent curtailing of commercial activities, and also potentially costing lives as I gave an example of?

Oh the humanity.

mickoneill30

jimmmy wrote: »

Hi again Absurdum, I can assure you I have no trouble reading your posts. When the government website says it has " a staff of 200, and an annual budget of around €23m." I quote that and leave it at that.

Fair enough. Then when people explain it more to you, you ignore the explanation and pretend it doesn't exist.

miju

I'd say at best and doing some very quick comparisons the MET office is 4% overstaffed if that compared to their UK equivalents. So we're talking what 8 staff being relocated to another dept?

So in answer to your question jimmny no the IMF wouldnt give a rats ass about 8 jobs in the grander scheme of things :rolleyes:

Oh btw as far as I can see the UK MET office budget doesnt include staff wages unlikee the MET Eireann office does.

jimmmy

Absurdum wrote: »

So you have no interest in listening to any details, .

Yes I have listened to the details. Could the efficiency for the taxpayer be improved ? Or where else in the public expenditure budget would you like to see the government make the 4 billion of savings it is endeavouring to make in the forthcoming budget ?

jimmmy

miju wrote: »

I'd say at best and doing some very quick comparisons the MET office is 4% overstaffed if that compared to their UK equivalents.

After so many years of Labour government, we all know what padding their is in many parts of UK government. Besides, the UK forecasts around the world. Does Met Eireann ? If it does, does it need to ?
If the IMF moves in, in a year or two ( as Minister Harney has hinted is quite possible ), will it care what UK levels are in its Met service ? Would it not be more likely to just slash our public expenditure budget ? Its ok to have 200 people in the Met service ( as opposed to say 160 ) and people lying on hospital trolleys ? Could 160 people one day be enough - in this computerised age - to predict the weather in and around Ireland ? If the Met service should be left out of the € 4 billions in saving the govt has to make this year, and next year, where do you think the cuts should fall ?

larrytom

tomorrows forecast---rain spreadin froam the west

jimmmy

larrytom wrote: »

tomorrows forecast---rain spreadin froam the west

lol lol. Thanks for that, here is € 63,013 for the days work, lads + lassies.;)

No wonder most people needing accurate specialised forecasts go to foreign sites such as www.magicseaweed.com

partypiper

sunny spells followed by bursts of Jimmy stupidy giving way to a dry weekend where jimmy comes up with ilogical arguements and doesn't listen to posters as they quite rightly shoot down every one of his points

graduate

This thread is typical of this forum, a complete fact free zone. The people posting here, including me, haven't a clue about what the Met office do. We don't know what role they play in agriculture, aviation or shipping. Perhaps they are overstaffed or perhaps they are understaffed, but there is little point in talking about it unless there is some concrete information.

The only observation I would make is that the likes of the Met office and the Ordnance Survey should have been made Cross Border bodies as they deal with the geography of the island rather than its political structures. There is significant unnecessary duplication in this respect, something McCarthy did not address.

octo

larrytom wrote: »

tomorrows forecast---rain spreadin froam the west

And this adds what exactly to the discussion?

Euro_Kraut

Jimmy, unless you are willing to acknowledge that your initial figure were misleading and that both Finland and Belgium have greater staffing and budgets than I am going to have to add you to my ignore list.

Life it too short to have to read the opinions of people who are unwilling to admit when they have made mistakes.

dahamsta

I love the suggestions that people should get their weather forecasts from foreign sources. Where do ye think they get their data from, dummies?

jimmmy

And all the while the country is borrowing 70 million euro a day , the country is 70 million further in debt. We are paying 50% more in interest on our borrowing compared with Germany ( they can borrow money at 3% annual interest on ten year bonds , our govt pays 4.5% ). The clouds are getting greyer, but no posters in this thread will say exactly where they want the 4 billion in cutbacks ( the govt has promised the EU ) in the forthcoming budget....and the 4 billion next year. Maybe the Met service efficiency cannot be improved or savings made there....maybe our whole public service is extremely cost efficient. Did Aer Lingus think it was efficient when it was charging 200 quid to fly to the UK in the seventies + early eighties, before Ryanair came along ?

jimmmy

dahamsta wrote: »

I love the suggestions that people should get their weather forecasts from foreign sources. Where do ye think they get their data from, dummies?

lol Where do you think the Met Service get their weather from ? Do they own the buoys out in the Atlantic ? Maybe they do. Anyone know ?

gucci

mike65 wrote: »

Its daft, TG4 use a company called Weather Services International in Birmingham (England, not Alabama) for their weather data I imagine they get it as about as right as RTE1 & 2 do.

Really? You learn something new every day....

partypiper

Cuts are obvious but may be politically tough:

1>Reduce Social Welfare payments in line with deflation
e.g. 2009 CPI was lets say -7% reduce social welfare by 7%
Those on social welfare should not see their real incomes rise while others fall.

2>Child Benefit should be means tested to below 60,000(joint income). The likes of Pat Kenny and Bono's kids should not be able to receive it. There rich kids already why make them richer

3>Meaningful reform of the HSE, with severe reductions in backoffice/ admin functions i.e. staff cuts but NOT FRONTLINE

4>Sensible McCarthy report reductions (merging of quangos etc.)


The holy trinity of spending is:

Social Welfare
Public Service
Heatlh and Education

All need to aborb a cut some more than others

jimmmy

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Jimmy, unless you are willing to acknowledge that your initial figure were misleading.

As explained already , more than once, the initial figures were quoted directly from the governments own webside, which I also indicated at the time. When it says it has a " a staff of 200, and an annual budget of around €23m." , I reproduce that quote. You can say its misleading or not. Its in black and white on the govt website, whose link I gave you.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

and that both Finland and Belgium have greater staffing and budgets than I am going to have to add you to my ignore list.

.

I did not look at Finland + Belgium ...I never claimed our met service was the most expensive in the world or anything like that. Maybe Finland + Belgium spends a lot on its met service, I do not know or care. Bigger countries tend to have bigger needs.

Absurdum

jimmmy wrote: »

Its ok to have 200 people in the Met service ( as opposed to say 160 ) and people lying on hospital trolleys ? Could 160 people one day be enough - in this computerised age - to predict the weather in and around Ireland ? If the Met service should be left out of the € 4 billions in saving the govt has to make this year, and next year, where do you think the cuts should fall ?

You'll be delighted to learn that from January 1st next year, the staff number will be 176, with a further fall expected by mid 2010. So your holy grail of 160 isn't too far away. Met services all around the world use computer modelling and prediction every day, I'm sure you'll understand that said computers require people to operate, maintain, program, etc. too, which doesn't come cheap.

Absurdum

graduate wrote: »

This thread is typical of this forum, a complete fact free zone. The people posting here, including me, haven't a clue about what the Met office do. We don't know what role they play in agriculture, aviation or shipping.

Actually, I know what they do (it's Met Eireann btw, the UK service is the Met Office), I deal with them on an almost daily basis.

Absurdum

jimmmy wrote: »

lol Where do you think the Met Service get their weather from ? Do they own the buoys out in the Atlantic ? Maybe they do. Anyone know ?

www.met.ie knows but sure what would you be doing looking on their own site when you decided to make a thread criticising them!

http://met.ie/marine/marine_observations.asp

:rolleyes:

dahamsta

jimmmy wrote: »

lol Where do you think the Met Service get their weather from ?

Weather stations. Who do you think owns and operates the weather stations? Fairies?

Euro_Kraut

jimmmy wrote: »

As explained already , more than once, the initial figures were quoted directly from the governments own webside, which I also indicated at the time. When it says it has a " a staff of 200, and an annual budget of around €23m." , I reproduce that quote. You can say its misleading or not. Its in black and white on the govt website, whose link I gave you.

Yes but your thread title says that Met Eireann costs €23million.

It doesn't and you know that. Despite this you refuse to change. Welcome to my ignore button.

If you keep this up you will be talking to yourself pretty soon.

partypiper

this is a wind up isn't jimmy your taking the mick

jmayo

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Belgium with a land mass with is less than half of our employ a similar number of people: http://www.meteo.be/meteo/view/en/478309-Introduction.html

Also I would imagine the Sea Area Forecast produced by Met Eireann represent a significant proportion of their business.

They do costal reports and sea crossings.
AFAIK a big chunk of our offshore is covered by the Brits.
Someone of course can correct me on this and do they give us data or we give them data ?

bangersandmash wrote: »

Of course it's a pointless comparison. But that comparison was the premise on which the OP's "argument" was based on.

But land mass might not be a particularly good measure either. A more useful comparison would be look at a country's dependence on certain weather-sensitive activities, such as agriculture or forestry, and look at how having an accurate indigenous meteorological service benefits those industries.

It is not alone weather sensitive activities but also what types of weather or different climates can have a bearing.
From what I remember from farming they often didn't add a lot bar warning about blight or warning about frosts,not that we get much anymore.
They do of course try and point the way for going all to harvest, then again the weather has been so sh**e over the last few years the window is getting smaller each year.

Absurdum wrote: »

Aviation more so than shipping. But some people here seem to think that a 15 second slot on the radio is all they do

Yes Metars and TAFS and you can phone Shannon and ask for detailed forecast.
Can't remember the charges for the calls.

larrytom wrote: »

tomorrows forecast---rain spreadin froam the west

As per usual :mad:

Absurdum

jmayo wrote: »

They do costal reports and sea crossings.
AFAIK a big chunk of our offshore is covered by the Brits.
Someone of course can correct me on this and do they give us data or we give them data ?

There is co-operation with the UKMO in some areas, the 6 data buoys for example, but most of it would be in-house so to speak. There are the Met Eireann coastal stations around the country (which are being automated) who provide observations and observations are also provided by ships. Data is "pooled" with the ECMWF and E-SURFMAR . Met Eireann produce some Marine charts and forecasts as required, the UKMO produce others...not much point in duplicating the same thing.

dresden8

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see anything much wrong with this. I'm all for a bit of public sector bashing, but this is scraping the barrel.

This is all stuff that the Finns would approve of.:)

Er, I was ripping the piss out of jimmmy....

parsi

Such a liberating feeling - I've just added jimmmmy to my ignore list.

dahamsta

I might add, if people want something to be pissed at the Met about, there's plenty of fodder in the tight rein they keep on weather data our tax euros paid for.

octo

dahamsta wrote: »

I might add, if people want something to be pissed at the Met about, there's plenty of fodder in the tight rein they keep on weather data our tax euros paid for.

Good point - they have a public service duty but are under pressure also to generate revenue. Public health and safety information should of course be free, but there is an argument that commercially advantageous information and data has a value that should be worth paying for.

Absurdum

dahamsta wrote: »

I might add, if people want something to be pissed at the Met about, there's plenty of fodder in the tight rein they keep on weather data our tax euros paid for.

Maybe in some cases but they can't just hand it out for nothing IMO. For example, a wind energy company looking for years of data for various sites could take days or weeks to prepare, I think it's only fair that said company should pay for someone else's work.