Liverpool v Lyon *Mod warning @ post 372*

thegen

mayordenis wrote: »

Sure you said Its a fact that we may be out of the champions league group, and we may be 10 points behind the leaders in a few days time.

Predicting the future, is not fact.

Did you not know he has a crystal ball:rolleyes:

Gang of Gin

bayviewclose wrote: »

I think rafas race is run at this stage. Team look dead to me. Maybe we beat united on Sunday but cant see it happening.
For me a bit of time on bench would do Carra a bit of good. He is struggling. needs a bit of time off to recharge the batteries.
Real shame about Kelly cause he looked good tonight. Again Lucas and Masch just too alike.
Beyond me why we bought a midfielder who wont be ready till November. Bit angry at Alonso also.
He had great season last year but then decided to get one over on Rafa over the Barry saga.
Did Alonso think of Pool when he did that I wonder?

There were € signs in Alonso's eyes

spockety

careca wrote: »

There was a time last year that I wished Rafa would go. Eventually he proved me wrong and I ate the humble pie. I think he is the right man for the job (hard as it is) at the minute..

However, I don't believe in being sensationalist (sp?) about it either. Liverpool were great before Rafa and they will be great after Rafa. If our injuries clear up and things are still stale, which they obv are, then maybe a change of leadership would be the best thing.

Liverpool were in much safer hands off the pitch in the pre-Rafa years.

Liverpool are in an incredibly dangerous position now off the pitch. Leeds United are a great club, but look where they find themselves.

noodler

Stekelly wrote: »

In fairness, a bad season should be finishing 3rd or 4th and maybe pickign up a cup or gettign to a final at teh very outside while haveign goods runs in all comps, not 5th, 6th or 7th and not gettign out of the CL group (which is a distinct possibility)

not winning the league is hardly a bad season. its also a bit early to be sacking some1 over the very distant and unlikely possibility of finishing outside the top four.

flahavaj

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

On the 7th of Decemeber 2005 Manchester United were out of the Champions League, and 12 points behind the league leaders.

Did you want Fergie sacked?


Just curious like.

Small matter of what, 7 or 8 premierships under his belt at that stage would suggest the answer will be no.

ShamoBuc

Torres has a chance of being back stevie will probably on the bench. Worst run since 1987... UTD coming to town and then Arse away..... get out the history books because two similar performances will result in two more losses. Confidence is low. The passing is poor. There is no cutting edge to our play. Play maker injured, Johnson injured, Torres injured, Stevie injured, Riera injured and Rafa under an inordinate amount of pressure, not helped by bringing Benny off and waste of space on, Babel couldn't come on , he had no boots on! Fergie is rubbing his hands I'm sure.... it would be very nice indeed to bring him down a peg or two on Sunday, God is good, Ferdinand OG in 97th min!!

careca

K-9 wrote: »

Mach was decent in the first half but anonymous in the second. Can't think of many positives barring Kelly and a decent NGog. Benny poor, barring the goal. Kuyt crap.

K-9, not having a go, but are you really saying you thought Ngog was decent??
I would love to hear others views on this. I know he's young, lacks games, etc, but I honestly thought he was worse than poor tonight. No touch, no control, can't pass, need I go on??

I forgot about Kelly, decent game alright.

ntlbell

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

On the 7th of Decemeber 2005 Manchester United were out of the Champions League, and 12 points behind the league leaders.

Did you want Fergie sacked?


Just curious like.

are you suggesting i want rafa sacked?

i think you'll find i never ever suggested such a thing.

i hope he's there for liofe

tdv

Delighted to see Lyon as a force again in Europe. To beat Liverpool at Anfield is always a great result no matter what form Liverpool are in.

Spud83

flahavaj wrote: »

Small matter of what, 7 or 8 premierships under his belt at that stage would suggest the answer will be no.

Wee see thats my point because if he says that it highly contradicts his first sentence.

Headshot

Gang of Gin wrote: »

There were € signs in Alonso's eyes

rafa wanted to sell him awhile back

what does Alonso do ?

magma69

If Johnson, Gerrard and Torres are in the team for the weekend, we can bounce back. If either Torres or Gerrard are out the best we will get is an unlikely draw. Fingers crossed they will recover.

Dub13

Mayordenis & NTL,

Can you two take it to PMs or tone it down a bit.

careca

spockety wrote: »

Liverpool were in much safer hands off the pitch in the pre-Rafa years.

Liverpool are in an incredibly dangerous position now off the pitch. Leeds United are a great club, but look where they find themselves.

Ya, fair point.

elshambo

dannydiamond wrote: »

Lol, Martin Keown "lose four games in a row the manager has to go".

What a **** idiot.

Im

Its Funny how Arsenal are getting an easy ride for having young fellas off the two of them and young fellas make mistakes etc

Where as Liverpools young fella's are clearly not good enough and its all a disgrace:rolleyes:

noodler

oh btw, chelsea have already lost, by october, the same number of games as liverpool lost in the WHOLE of last season!! Ancelloti for the sack etc

ntlbell

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Wee see thats my point because if he says that it highly contradicts his first sentence.

anyhaps even if i was suggesting it

winning title after title is slightly different to a manager living off winning a wee cup

Spud83

ntlbell wrote: »

are you suggesting i want rafa sacked?

i think you'll find i never ever suggested such a thing.

i hope he's there for liofe

You are certainly suggesting he is not doing good enough and therefore should be sacked?

What you want I don't care about.

K-9

careca wrote: »

K-9, not having a go, but are you really saying you thought Ngog was decent??
I would love to hear others views on this. I know he's young, lacks games, etc, but I honestly thought he was worse than poor tonight. No touch, no control, can't pass, need I go on??

I forgot about Kelly, decent game alright.

Just decent. He lost possession a few times with poor passes but did well other times. In fairness to him, Kuyt and Benny where poor, the 2 more experienced lads. Playing him on his own up front is asking a lot.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes i think its time to take a serious look at this team. Bringing Voronin back was a step backwards. We are weak without Torres and Gerrard. Benayoun and Kuyt give their all but Gerrard and Torres soul of this team.
I think problem tonight is that Ngog was thrown in to attack without really having a good run in team last year.
Also think Rafa let go of finnan too early.Given that Johnson was missing, no cover for him in that position.
Rafa i think is in big trouble if we lose to United at weekend. We are haemorrhaging at the moment.

Dub13

Mod Hat On.


Ok I am going to try and put a bit of structure on this,I know its all interlinked but we don't want to be reading the same stuff on 3 threads.

So can we try and keep this thread for discussing the actual match.

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

all that to say nothing.

nice one.

Well I'd certainly rather say nothing than talk ****e.

ntlbell

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

You are certainly suggesting he is not doing good enough and therefore should be sacked?

What you want I don't care about.

i don't consider one "nearly" and a cup in 5 years to be good enough.

i dont think liverpool fans think it's good enough

a few are honest enough to admit it

others live on the wee cup win.

Gang of Gin

Headshot wrote: »

rafa wanted to sell him awhile back

what does Alonso do ?

I think Sky Sports might have mention the 'awhile back' thing.

Why, did Rafa tell you or someone in the know about that prior few months when he wanted to sell him.

I only heard that as rumour. Red top stuff.

Well, it doesn't matter anyway, because then he did go.

spockety

magma69 wrote: »

If Johnson, Gerrard and Torres are in the team for the weekend, we can bounce back. If either Torres or Gerrard are out the best we will get is an unlikely draw. Fingers crossed they will recover.

I won't bother pointing out what happened the last time Liverpool faced United without Gerrard and Torres....

Spud83

just seen the mod note

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

i don't consider one "nearly" and a cup in 5 years to be good enough.

i dont think liverpool fans think it's good enough

a few are honest enough to admit it

others live on the wee cup win.

It's nothing to do with honesty it's looking at the complete picture.
It's look at where we were before his arrival and where we are now.
We beat united at the weekend we're 4 points off the top, with major player coming back to fitness, crisis over.

ntlbell

Dub13 wrote: »

Mod Hat On.


Ok I am going to try and put a bit of structure on this,I know its all interlinked but we don't want to be reading the same stuff on 3 threads.

So can we try and keep this thread for discussing the actual match.

sorry dub missed this.

noted!

**** off.

Dub13

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

just seen the mod note

No bother,I let a few posts slide as they could have been 'in the cooker' when the warning was posted.

jaykay74

On the upside the problem of too many draws seems to have been solved

seriously I expect nothing less than a backs to the wall win at the weekend followed by an olympiacos style qualification too the knockout stages.

Headshot

Gang of Gin wrote: »

I think Sky Sports might have mention the 'awhile back' thing.

Why, did Rafa tell you or someone in the know about that prior few months when he wanted to sell him.

I only heard that as rumour. Red top stuff.

Well, it doesn't matter anyway, because then he did go.

lol

thats common knowledge mate, ask any credible liverpool fan

Boggles

spockety wrote: »

I won't bother pointing out what happened the last time Liverpool faced United without Gerrard and Torres....

Liverpool won the match from a bobble from Babel if I recall, Gerrard did play the last 25-30 mins.

What about the season before that, and before that, etc?

Last years game has no influence over what might or will happen on Sunday, or the 4 years before that.

Liverpool have serious problems, the last thing they will want is to face the Champions.

Edit, just saw note too.

---

Only saw second half of the match, Lyon deserved it IMO.

citytillidie

Liverpool could be back to Thursday night football after christmas

Dub13

Again folks can we only Only have Match Talk about the Lyon game in here.

K-9

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes i think its time to take a serious look at this team. Bringing Voronin back was a step backwards. We are weak without Torres and Gerrard. Benayoun and Kuyt give their all but Gerrard and Torres soul of this team.
I think problem tonight is that Ngog was thrown in to attack without really having a good run in team last year.
Also think Rafa let go of finnan too early.Given that Johnson was missing, no cover for him in that position.
Rafa i think is in big trouble if we lose to United at weekend. We are haemorrhaging at the moment.

Would have preferred Babel on for Kuyt but Benny wasn't playing well, especially in the second half. Losing the ball and trying to do too much.

Kelly was the positive of the night, so I don't accept the Johnson point.

jaykay74 wrote: »

On the upside the problem of too many draws seems to have been solved

seriously I expect nothing less than a backs to the wall win at the weekend followed by an olympiacos style qualification too the knockout stages.

We've qualified a few times before when it looked lost.

Mitch Connor

K-9 wrote: »

Would have preferred Babel on for Kuyt but Benny wasn't playing well, especially in the second half. Losing the ball and trying to do too much.

Kelly was the positive of the night, so I don't accept the Johnson point.



We've qualified a few times before when it looked lost.

was it the year you beat Milan or the year you lost to them that the opening of the CL had been shocking resulting in Liverpool having to win the three remaining games (and doing so) to have a chance of getting through.

Mental Mickey

Pure rubbish. Ok, we were unfortunate to lose Gerrard so early, but the rest of the team - apart from the youngster Kelly who, I thought had a good game - didn't turn up.

If we don't get a result on Sunday, Rafa will walk the plank.

Vampireskiss

Vampireskiss wrote: »

3-1 lyon and Gerard to injure himself again

Oh and I was so close, never mind im still happy:D

ShamoBuc

Tonight was poor, would have been happy with a point but a sneaky win on Sunday, 4 pts behind Mancs, a draw V Lyon win the other two games = 10 pts enough to qualify if Lyon beat Fiorentina, and then a long unbeaten run when ALL our injured players are back and bring the trophy home , nuf said!

K-9

May have been. I think once during Houlliers reign and another time under Rafa (besides 05) we got through after a poor start.

Problem is, they where tight groups, teams drawing all over the place.

We need 9 points, 7 is unlikely as we are hoping Lyon do us a favour or goal difference.

Thinking about it again, even if we beat Lyon:

Lyon and presumably Fiorentina 9, Liverpool 6.

2 games left.

Still need 2 wins to be sure. A draw is no good against Lyon.

spockety

We are definitely walking through a storm.

Good night all!

mike65

Remember CL group 2007? Three wins on the bounce were required, 8-0 4-0 and 4-1 were the results.

ntlbell

mike65 wrote: »

Remember CL group 2007? Three wins on the bounce were required, 8-0 4-0 and 2-1 I think were the results.

rember that game in 1947

3 - 0 down and and and...

remember that game in.....

straws and clutching mike.

mike65

Maybe so but its all I've got

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

rember that game in 1947

3 - 0 down and and and...

remember that game in.....

straws and clutching mike.

I think with Torres, Gerrard, Agger(back fully fit), Johnson, Aquilani, Riera it's not clutching at straws to think we can win 3 games against teams we should beat.

But anyway you keep on looking all squinty eyed at the world as you see it.

Pro. F

Terrible performance from Liverpool tonight. The passing was so unreliable it was shocking but there's always a risk that it's going to be like that with Rafa's style. Ngog was muck upfront on his own but that was only one of the problems. They were very unlucky that Kelly had to go off imo as Carra became a liability at RB. Rafa is such a weird manager tbh i'll never understand him, taking Yossi off when he did just defies logic imho.

I hope this terrible Liverpool form continues on Sunday but i doubt it.

gucci

Pro. F wrote: »

Terrible performance from Liverpool tonight. The passing was so unreliable it was shocking but there's always a risk that it's going to be like that with Rafa's style. Ngog was muck upfront on his own but that was only one of the problems. They were very unlucky that Kelly had to go off imo as Carra became a liability at RB. Rafa is such a weird manager tbh i'll never understand him, taking Yossi off when he did just defies logic imho.

I hope this terrible Liverpool form continues on Sunday but i doubt it.

Do you really think Ngog is muck upfront on his own, or that he was isolated and had to feed on scraps all night?
I felt he actually competed for every ball that was randomly hit his direction and some of it he won possession, some of it he didn't, but given the standard of ball he was getting there's not much more you could ask of him. He is clearly far off the finished article, but at age 20 with 6 or 7 starts under his belt......I think he is doing all you can ask of him.

Midfield was a big let down for Liverpool last night, Masch and Lucas put in massive efforts, but our ball retention skills were shocking, Kuyt, Benny, Aurelio, Lucas, Masch and Insua were all exposed a number of times for being sloppy in possession, which put the team on the back foot over and over.



I must say i was impressed with how Lyon played football last night, and quite jealous of the amount of money they have spent in the summer. Not sure how accurate skys analysis was but, £13m for Cissoko, 20million euro for lassardo and another 15m euro player on the bench.....(i didnt quite catch who that was!)

Also what age is Govou? he seems to be playing forever in the champions league! Insua wont be looking forward to playing against him again (Or maybe he wont get the chance if Aurelio is started at LB)

careca

gucci wrote: »

Do you really think Ngog is muck upfront on his own, or that he was isolated and had to feed on scraps all night?
I felt he actually competed for every ball that was randomly hit his direction and some of it he won possession, some of it he didn't, but given the standard of ball he was getting there's not much more you could ask of him. He is clearly far off the finished article, but at age 20 with 6 or 7 starts under his belt......I think he is doing all you can ask of him.

I'd agree that Ngog tried hard but apart from that he really was shocking. I'd also give him some slack as he hasn't played much, but his passing on the few occasions he did win possession was really bad. It would cause me too much pain to watch the match again, but I would hazard a guess that his completed passes (and they weren't more than ten yards) was less than 50%. This also would not include the times he had the possession and a Lyon player simply got a nick on it. As i already stated, the one time he showed some class with the nutmeg on the endline, his next 'touch' then put the ball 3/4 feet away from him. Hopefully he will improve with matches/age but going on last night's display he will need to big time.

gucci

careca wrote: »

I'd agree that Ngog tried hard but apart from that he really was shocking. I'd also give him some slack as he hasn't played much, but his passing on the few occasions he did win possession was really bad. It would cause me too much pain to watch the match again, but I would hazard a guess that his completed passes (and they weren't more than ten yards) was less than 50%. This also would not include the times he had the possession and a Lyon player simply got a nick on it. As i already stated, the one time he showed some class with the nutmeg on the endline, his next 'touch' then put the ball 3/4 feet away from him. Hopefully he will improve with matches/age but going on last night's display he will need to big time.

True some of his passing and usage of the ball was sloppy, but he had the appetite to comepete for every ball, which gives me hope for him. I have already outlined in my post that sloppiness in possession murdered the team last night. A shakey defence is going to look a hell of alot worse when anything they clear breaks down in midfield and is put back on them again.

Ngog was far from the problem last night, is my main point! He is too raw to be starting up front in big matchs, but his strength and work rate and even positional discipline meant he is a better option than Babel upfront.