Rip off clare

asmobhosca

Surely it is in the golf club's interest to protect the erosion of the dune system not to contribute to it?

Also and i'm open to correction here but hasnt the tiny snail that people are trying to protect in Doonbeg, been found in virtually every dune system in Ireland?
Even ones with long time pre-existing golf courses?

In my opinion there have been much worse planning decisions in clare than doonbeg such as...
"The Dell" highrise apartments in lahinch
holiday homes on the headland in liscannor
building and rezoning of flood plains in and around ennis

Sorry luap but from people i've met in clare and people i know from doonbeg, youre definitely in the minority with your opinion on this one, but entitled to it nonetheless.

NewApproach

The tree hugging thread is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>.

Teadrinker

OldGuysRule wrote: »

We are well off topic here, however,



Might be worth checking it out for yourself, it is a lot more than fencing. For information, the golf club were not refused permission for fencing, it was full on rock armour initially proposed.

However, your statement that the (sandtrap) fencing is inappropriate for the dunes is incorrect. You could do well to research a document called ECOPRO regarding coastal zone and dune system management fo Ireland.

The 'original' fencing was placed in recent years inan attempt to stabilise the dune just north of the centre of the beach, however it has failed. I am intrigued by your suggestion that they are taking the dunes down with them, that is quite sensationalist.

As noted above, I have no link wit the golf club and have spent a lot of my own time researching and responding to various planning applications made. I have also got directly involved in meeting with the golf club and their representatives to discuss these matters, face to face, not through face less forums or idle speculation / sensationalism.

It is amazing how easy it is to deal with people when direct approaches are made and facts discussed.

Ahem!

luap_42

Point taken about the planning refusal for rock armour.

OldGuysRule wrote: »

However, your statement that the (sandtrap) fencing is inappropriate for the dunes is incorrect. You could do well to research a document called ECOPRO regarding coastal zone and dune system management fo Ireland.

The 'original' fencing was placed in recent years in an attempt to stabilise the dune just north of the centre of the beach, however it has failed. I am intrigued by your suggestion that they are taking the dunes down with them, that is quite sensationalist..

If the fencing they put up has failed, then the point makes itself, and then they would have been better off leaving the dunes alone as they would be in better shape. Nothing sensationalist about it. Fairly straightforward to anyone with two eyes, and a bit of history in the location..

OldGuysRule wrote: »

As noted above, I have no link wit the golf club and have spent a lot of my own time researching and responding to various planning applications made. I have also got directly involved in meeting with the golf club and their representatives to discuss these matters, face to face, not through face less forums or idle speculation / sensationalism.

It is amazing how easy it is to deal with people when direct approaches are made and facts discussed.

Good point. As far as I'm concerned this is a horse that has bolted, except for whatever they try to do in the future. I was not around when they passed all previous planning, but hopefully will be if they try build any more sh1te in the area.

benj

celliman wrote: »

go to kilkee the cliffs there are spectacular nice walkways and a cafe all free

in fairness,they might be a charge for a nice cup of tea

Jim Martin

benj wrote: »

in fairness,they might be a charge for a nice cup of tea

Their prices are very reasonable and it's a lovely cafe

http://www.diamondrockscafe.com/

benj

Jim Martin wrote: »

Their prices are very reasonable and it's a lovely cafe

http://www.diamondrockscafe.com/

ya i was there a few times,it has really nice food and the views are probably the best in ireland....

luap_42

asmobhosca wrote: »

Also and i'm open to correction here but hasnt the tiny snail that people are trying to protect in Doonbeg, been found in virtually every dune system in Ireland? Even ones with long time pre-existing golf courses?

Fair point, but dune habitats are not just about snails. Dune systems that we have in Ireland are rare, but with our insular way of thinking we think they are expendable, to be used as we see fit, for profit and recreation. They are protected under EU law, but our local authorities will not protect them, except by paying lip-service to certain regulations whilst blatantly overriding EU legislation. From the ENCORA website page about Irish dune systems: [The dune systems] have also been extensively developed as golf courses with the loss of much of the natural dune vegetation.

asmobhosca wrote: »

In my opinion there have been much worse planning decisions in clare than doonbeg such as...
"The Dell" highrise apartments in lahinch
holiday homes on the headland in liscannor
building and rezoning of flood plains in and around ennis

Completely agree. CCC should be ashamed of these disgraceful planning decisions.

asmobhosca wrote: »

Sorry luap but from people i've met in clare and people i know from doonbeg, youre definitely in the minority with your opinion on this one, but entitled to it nonetheless.

Noone said it was a popularity contest. Proper planning/conservation is not necessarily about what the majority or locals think or want.

Jim Martin

luap_42 wrote: »

Fair point, but dune habitats are not just about snails. Dune systems that we have in Ireland are rare, but with our insular way of thinking we think they are expendable, to be used as we see fit, for profit and recreation. They are protected under EU law, but our local authorities will not protect them, except by paying lip-service to certain regulations whilst blatantly overriding EU legislation. From the ENCORA website page about Irish dune systems: [The dune systems] have also been extensively developed as golf courses with the loss of much of the natural dune vegetation.



Completely agree. CCC should be ashamed of these disgraceful planning decisions.



Noone said it was a popularity contest. Proper planning/conservation is not necessarily about what the majority or locals think or want.

Totally agree. May I strongly recommend that everyone (if they have time to personally hand in a submision by 16.00 Tuesday, 6th April!) writes to Clare County Council in response to the Draft County Development Plan 2010 request for public involvement.

Jim Martin

Jim Martin wrote: »

Totally agree. May I strongly recommend that everyone (if they have time to personally hand in a submision by 16.00 Tuesday, 6th April!) writes to Clare County Council in response to the Draft County Development Plan 2010 request for public involvement.

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/news/draft-clare-county-development-plan-2011-2017.html

Jim Martin

Jim Martin wrote: »

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/news/draft-clare-county-development-plan-2011-2017.html

Just noticed from their (Clare Co.Co.) website that submissions can also be Emailed!

PARKHEAD67

homer_simpson wrote: »

hi all, this isn't to start a slagging match here but want native clare peoples views on this.

Myself and my girlfriend decided we were going to head down the clare coast to take in the burren ect and head into enis for the night then come up the road this morning. i called into ballyvaughan tourist office as we were ahead of timein an effort to find something to do for a few hours, were told to go to the aillwee cave, took her advice and went there. We were in the Q to get in with a few cars behind us when we were greated by an arragent woman asking for €34 to get in if i could have reversed i back again i would have its an absolute disgrace the price that is charged, to go in and see a very dissapointing cave with nothing exciting in it being given by a tour guide who was vey hard to listen to cos of her americian accent. we then went into the bird of pray exhibit to find 5 of the same type of bird and a few owls and a raven in cages! price is not justified at all it wouldn't even be worth €10 each never mind €17 each.

Then im sure you dont need to be told that the cliffs of moher are a rip off, come up to sleive league the highest sea cliffs in europe free of charge!

Its a lovely county in places but the prices of things are way to expensive i cant help but feel that a tourist comming away from clare would be thinking jes it was expensive. i cant help but feel that with the prices its just pushing tourists away not bringing them in.

Dean , Donegal.

The ignoramus behind the counter was obviously the same 1 me and the wife met on our trip to the caves.Im from ennis and i agree 100% with you..tis a rip off.The yanks are gettin wind of rip off Ireland too-Thats why theres less of em around every year.

GuinnessTony

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

The yanks are gettin wind of rip off Ireland too.

Yes we are. Many of my friends are going to give this year a miss.
The only thing that really made it worthwhile to me (other than visiting family) was the cheap flights from Shannon, now they are gone. It was cheaper (as you are well aware) the last few summers to do weekends in Paris, Berlin, Salzburg, Munich and Venice than a rainy weekend with subpar food and overpriced attractions in Kerry, Cork or Dublin. The train to Dublin cost me more than a flight to Venice, even with the fees.

As for the very dark caves, they may be the biggest rip off in all of Ireland. We got a discounted family ticket and they counted some adults as kids because we were "locals" and we still felt it was a rip off. We had an Aussie doing our tour and he was impossible to follow.

As for the cliffs I really dislike all the changes. I'll skip them in future and maybe check out the Diamond Rocks Cafe. I hear the view is amazing.

The other scam they are trying to pull at a few places is to charge us in Dollars. It sounds good, but they are actually charging us at their own higher exchange rate. They don't even ask at a few places.

The only thing that may help is that the Euro is getting closer to par value. If it gets back to even like around 2001 and Aer Lingus gets some reasonable fares then maybe they can start to draw people back. Currently the fares on AL are the highest I have ever seen. About 300 more than last year, even the prices in February were crazy compared to last year. That is not going to help this summer’s tourist season.

goingpostal

Have to agree with the general tone of this thread. County Clare is one of the most beautiful in Ireland, but CCC seems to be hellbent on ruining it. A lot of the planning decisions in the last 15 years are a disgrace, and further proof that you can commit any crime you want in this country if you have enough money to get away with it. Cliffs of Moher are a total rip off, I will never again visit them after they made a pigs ear of them with all the fences and 8 euro to park my car. I couldn't care less about the economics of the situation, I hate being ripped off, and as a consumer my only power is to show CCC my big hairy árse and refusing to visit any of their tourist traps. There is a host of hidden gems to be seen for FREE in County Clare, for anyone willing to do some rudimentary research on the internet or in a tourist guide. They are a little harder to get to, in some cases, than the marquee attractions, but are well worth the extra effort. People need to use their imaginations a bit more to avoid being ripped off so much. I think a valuable rule of thumb is, the more brown road signs you see pointing you towards it, the more certain it is to be a tourist trap.

dr.fuzzenstein

I usually go for a walk or cycle around my area, the hinterland between Gort and Tulla has some very nice scenery, no tourist ever goes there, hence all parking is free and the pubs and restaurants are reasonable. Peppers Bar in Feakle is nice.
You can park for free in Lahinch on the Miltown Malbay road, the Atlantic has fabulous food at very reasonable prices, walk on the beach and if you have a dog, go to White Strand or Quilty.
Dromore Woods, Coole Park (though not Clare) are all free and beatiful.
The back road from Tubber to Kinvaragh goes through some of the nicest scenery I know and from Kinvara onto Ballyvaughan, Black Head, Fanore is some of the most spectacular scenery anywhere in the world, seriously! This last route is especially nice if you have a really nice car, something open, bit of power, good handling and rear wheel drive. We usually then cut through the Burren back to Corofin and then home.
Loop Head is excellent, Carrigaholt is nice, the choo choo train near Kilkee is next on my list.
There are tons and tons of things you can do in Clare, you just gotta know.
Or you go to an official Tourist Info, get one of their glossy brochures and then avoid everything in it.
You can have a blast in Clare and not pay a fortune too!

luap_42

goingpostal wrote: »

Have to agree with the general tone of this thread. County Clare is one of the most beautiful in Ireland, but CCC seems to be hellbent on ruining it. A lot of the planning decisions in the last 15 years are a disgrace, and further proof that you can commit any crime you want in this country if you have enough money to get away with it. Cliffs of Moher are a total rip off, I will never again visit them after they made a pigs ear of them with all the fences and 8 euro to park my car. I couldn't care less about the economics of the situation, I hate being ripped off, and as a consumer my only power is to show CCC my big hairy árse and refusing to visit any of their tourist traps.

Spot on. The best of Clare is free with a few notable exceptions.

Regarding the cliffs, there are a few different ways to circumvent the €8 parking charge, but if you have kids, pets or elderly visitors and the weather is bad, then not much use. I never pay the charge, unless there is a big gang of us in a people carrier to split the charge. Why they don't have scaled charges for off-season is beyond me. It surely drives away visitors outside of the high season. I can't see why a €4 charge isn't sufficient for whatever maintenance they have to do, especially with the numbers they get. Or are they just ripping people off because they have the council and therefore the law behind them?

Considering it's a not-for-profit organisation, you have to wonder why the excessive parking charge. The restaurants/shops/visitor's centre exhibition are all self-funding. I can't see where the parking charge * number of visitors money is going for the past three years. They got National Development funding to build it, so they don't have massive debt to pay off (or do they).

Something doesn't add up in the funding/charging vs. development/maintenance equation.

Nevermind_

luap_42 wrote: »

Spot on. The best of Clare is free with a few notable exceptions.

Regarding the cliffs, there are a few different ways to circumvent the €8 parking charge, but if you have kids, pets or elderly visitors and the weather is bad, then not much use. I never pay the charge, unless there is a big gang of us in a people carrier to split the charge. Why they don't have scaled charges for off-season is beyond me. It surely drives away visitors outside of the high season. I can't see why a €4 charge isn't sufficient for whatever maintenance they have to do, especially with the numbers they get. Or are they just ripping people off because they have the council and therefore the law behind them?

Considering it's a not-for-profit organisation, you have to wonder why the excessive parking charge. The restaurants/shops/visitor's centre exhibition are all self-funding. I can't see where the parking charge * number of visitors money is going for the past three years. They got National Development funding to build it, so they don't have massive debt to pay off (or do they).

Something doesn't add up in the funding/charging vs. development/maintenance equation.

I reckon they're using the money to pay for other things like their overpaid wages/pensions or their bling new offices.
If the council was a private sector company they all would have been sacked ages ago.

maiden

I went to the ailwee caves a few years ago. I had my 2 sons with me and my sister had her son so we decided to avail of the family ticket as it was cheaper. (2 ad, 3 kids) We were told we couldnt as we were not a 'family' ie husband, wife, kids!!!

I fought my corner saying i was a single parent, were they telling me we werent a family etc. I got it eventually after threatening gerry ryan but i was raging! Even as im writing this im still annoyed!

I wonder is it still the case?

goingpostal

maiden wrote: »

I went to the ailwee caves a few years ago. I had my 2 sons with me and my sister had her son so we decided to avail of the family ticket as it was cheaper. (2 ad, 3 kids) We were told we couldnt as we were not a 'family' ie husband, wife, kids!!!

I fought my corner saying i was a single parent, were they telling me we werent a family etc. I got it eventually after threatening gerry ryan but i was raging! Even as im writing this im still annoyed!

I wonder is it still the case?

Thats pretty shocking. I've heard a lot of bad stories about that place. I'd say they just make up the rules as they go along, trying to get the max amount of money out of every visitor that comes along.

tagoona

Went to Dunnes in Ennis today and was completely shocked. 20% increase in the parking charges. E1.20 an hour. What a stupid fecking maneouver. Why, when things are tough all over would you encourage people not to park there.
I know most people get the parking refunded, but if so, is there really that much extra revenue in a 20c increase ? ! Ludicrous

graflynn

E1.20 is what they have been charging to park in the town for a couple of months now. Dunnes are just matching that, probably

dh0661

tagoona wrote: »

Went to Dunnes in Ennis today and was completely shocked. 20% increase in the parking charges. E1.20 an hour.

Has been €1-20 in Dunnes (NCR) Tralee for a long time.

NewApproach

Sure you get it back when you shop in there anyway.

dh0661

NewApproach wrote: »

Sure you get it back when you shop in there anyway.

In the Dunnes Tralee that I referred to, they have recently increased the minimum spend to get car park refund.
It used to be €6.00 now (AFAIK) it has been increased to €20.00.

BTW they have also introduced an €5.00 delivery charge.

firesidechat

dh0661 wrote: »

In the Dunnes Tralee that I referred to, they have recently increased the minimum spend to get car park refund.
It used to be €6.00 now (AFAIK) it has been increased to €20.00

Ennis Dunnes now has a minimum spend of e 20.00 before they will issue a refund for parking.
This is not economics,
It's Greed.......

Fiskar

We visited sunny Clare over the Easter break, paid the €8 fee for Moher car park, paid €45 for 2 adult-a2 children to Ailwee and birds of prey and €33 to Bunratty.
Felt the Bunratty prices for what it offered was pretty poor. Hard to keep the kids entertained and do feel the folk village needs a make over. Why on earth don't they redo a thatch once per year on a house. Everything looks delapidated. Castle is a squezze even in off peak.

Regarding fees at Moher and Ailwee, my wife came up with a good reason, we were last there 21 years ago, with the kids at 13 and 9 was a good opportunity to give them a favour of old Ireland, she reckoned it would be 21 years before we returned! Birds of prey exhibition was better than the caves, moher was amazing as was the weather. Last time we was there there was horizontal rain!

Do feel strongly about the waste on the beaches at Spainish point and the shocking over building throughout the county. Coonemara is less destroyed.

CCC are sucking the money out of the county.

CptSternn

This is Dunnes Stores we are talking about sure. They sack employees for wearing union badges. They got rid of most of their full time workers a few years ago by cutting their hours and moving their shifts around until they left, so they could be replaced with cheap foreign part-time labour, with no benefits.

I was at protests for both of those events.

That being said, the alternative in Ennis is Tesco. If you think Dunnes is bad, Tesco is worse.

It's kinda like choosing which foot you want to be shot in really.

CptSternn

Fiskar wrote: »

Do feel strongly about the waste on the beaches at Spainish point and the shocking over building throughout the county. Coonemara is less destroyed.

CCC are sucking the money out of the county.

You think the waste at Spanish Point is bad now? Wait until Shell get through building the new refinery there. Thats right - thats site #2 to be developed with an on shore gas refinery, just like the one the residents are protesting in Mayo.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=spanish+point+gas+offshore

dermothickey

buck65 wrote: »

The reason the Cliffs lost money is beacause they build these big "interpretative centres" with their cafes and restaurants and toilet facilities - fair enough, then they staff them, probably paying too much to staff and with too many employees in off season etc. Then they build a big car park and screw the customer to pay for all the above!
It is all great economics until the customer decides to go elsewhere where they are not screwed and appreciated.
Then they lose money and to pay for the loss the taxpayer comes in and some wise old sage will say ...
Ok we had 100,000 customers last year who paid an average of €8 for parking , €3 for coffee and scone yielding €1.1m in sales. We lost €200,000 so next year we will ...charge €10 for parking and €3.50 for coffee and scone and make a good profit.
:rolleyes:
plus we are losing about 11% a year in foreign tourists

Agree here...why they didn't just leave it alone and let it be a natural site where people can stop by is beyond me. I'm sure people who visited it in the past would go in to Lahinch for a bit of grub and stay the night now they just move on wondering how they are suddenly lighter in pocket from looking at a cliff. Someone somewhere decided to put up an interprative centre and charge people why? How? Who?

beargrisley

speaking of the cliffs.......perhaps this has been mentioned but i was there 3 weeks ago and what i saw beats it all.

do ya know the telescopic viewers they have set up? towards the left hand side of the cliffs??? well anyway,it says on the viewer 1euro is required to use it......and as you read on further it says for 2 euro you will get an extended view!!! now i thought so WTF do you actually get for the 1euro?? eh:eek:.....like am i missing something here or what??
i saw one of the viewers wrapped up,someone may have broken it in fraustration when it stopped working....
the country is a joke!