eamonn gilmore on the frontline.

Taxipete29

DJDC wrote: »

Kenny did an excellent job at exposing Gilmore's populist rhetoric and showing that Labour's approach towards the massive leech sucking the life out of the nation's finances is to hold off or increase taxes.I despise FF and I have never voted for them but I respect Lenihan for having the balls to do whats right for the country.He knows that any further increase in taxes on high earners will have a negative effect through turning away enterprise and employment.If he makes the right decision and slashes PS pay and entitlements this Dec, he will go down in history as one of the best Finance ministers we have ever had. And you know what...a huge section of the PS will still vote FF/FG because lots of nurses, gardai, civil servants come from gombeen FF/FG families so Gilmore is not only wasting a valuable political platform but probably wasting his time as well.

I am dying to know how Enda exposed anything?? Please enlighten me.

Labour have remained relatively quiet on the whole PS pay issue because they know what needs to be done but they are not going to actively pursue it as a policy. Why?? because they dont have to. Gilmore has spoken many times about the need for PS reform. Thats as far as he needs to go. Its only when asked direct questions about PS pay do you really hear anything at all form him on the subject. Meanwhile he continues to hammer on at the Government about NAMA, education, health etc. Its called being in opposition. Its one of the few advantages. You dont actually have to make the hard choices.

I sometimes wonder do people understand politics at all. Sometimes its not about telling people what they want to hear. Its about about not telling them what they dont want to hear

DJDC

I am not talking about Inda.

Euro_Kraut

bridgitt wrote: »

Some teachers and Gardai know public sector pay cuts are necessary for the good of the country. Why are Fine Gael not going with the majority in the country, who realise we cannot go on borrowing to support government spending?

I believe on account of the political reasons I listed above. I have no better suggestions. To be honest I am surpirse FG haven't been stronger on the issue too.

Taxipete29

DJDC wrote: »

I am not talking about Inda.

Apologies, my mistake. Thats what happens when you forget which thread your on and dont refer to the title. Lol

I didnt see it. Must go and look at the website and have a look at it.

irish_bob

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

From a poltical point of view I think its pretty obvious,

A. They are need Labour to form the next Government
B. They risk losing their traditional support base among Teachers and Gardai

the gardai and teacher vote is not that big to a party like fine gael

Lockstep

Seriously now; Eamon Gilmore is populist?
He's been as equally left wing as he was when he took over the Labour party except it wasn't as popular then. He sticks to his guns in the bad times and gets labeled a populist.

irish_bob wrote: »

gilmore cannot come down hard on public sector pay , the public sector are all labour have

not actually true from the last report I read; basically that the biggest voting block Labour has is the unskilled working class, followed by the lower middle class (Labour gets a lot of votes in inner city Dublin, up to 1/3 IIRC)

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

If FG begin to start supporting FF policy, people will start to ask why would we vote for them if its just more of the same. The fact is the worst thing FG could do now from a political point of view is to start agreeing with the Government.

i disagree , like with lisbon , most right minded people will see it as supporting what is best for the country

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

i disagree , like with lisbon , most right minded people will see it as supporting what is best for the country

There was a difference though. Lisbon needed all-party support to guarantee it would be passed. FG dont have to publically support anything because FF dont need them to pass anything. What might be best for the country is not necessarily best for FG in order to get them into power next election.

Sand

@1000 maniacs

The day Lenihan announced the guarantee, I had booked the morning off to transfer my savings from Irish Nationwide to HBOS. When Lenihan made the guarantee speech I cancelled my morning off

.

How does this change my opinion of you or my opinion of Lenihans open ended guarantee to bank bondholders when he had no ****ing idea whatsoever of what he was guaranteeing and when Lenihan still has no ****ing idea whatsoever of what he is guaranteeing?

Guaranteeing on my behalf by the way.

I'm sure a couple of hundred thousand like minded people were planning a similar move that morning.

Like minded? Thats one description for them.

If it wasn't for the Irish bank-guarantee, we would have an Iceland type situation here.

Iceland is not Ireland. Vastly different situations.

And why it was rushed through). He had only a matter of hours to react. One of the econonomic commentators at the time said that we were only hours from bankruptcy.

Here you go with this *we* **** again. *We* werent hours from bankruptcy. Your bank was because they were ****ing incompetent. I speak as someone with a fair amount in my bank account and I still dont buy this **** that I as an Irish citizen was somehow acting as a last resort lender for your ****ty banks balance sheet. Move your deposits to a bank that isnt run like a ****ing circus if you want it safe. Lenihan made a ****ing despicably stupid decision and Irish government policy since then has been reacting to the sheer, gross, moronic stupidity of the blanket guarantee, not only on deposits but also on investment instruments like bonds.
@GUIGuy

Possible Alternative Scenario (just for fun... but not so far fetched!)

Yeah, its also a possible alternative scenario (just for fun... but not so far fetched!) that Brian Lenihan takes 54 billion to Las Vegas for a double or nothing bet. Oh wait, hes already doing that...NAMA.

@1000 Maniacs

At last, somebody with a grasp. Cheers GUIGuy.

Must be a relief to find somebody on your level alright.

@DJDC

I despise FF and I have never voted for them but I respect Lenihan for having the balls to do whats right for the country.

FFS - Lenihan has the balls to do whats right for the banks, in direct opposition for whats right foor the county.

@Kickoutthejams

Seriously now; Eamon Gilmore is populist?
He's been as equally left wing as he was when he took over the Labour party except it wasn't as popular then. He sticks to his guns in the bad times and gets labeled a populist.

He tells people bull**** when he must know the truth himself - remember, the biggest factor in the unpopularity of Fianna Fail post 2002 was that they were perceived to have lied about the economy in the leadup to the 2002 election ( in that they accelerated spending by 22% in 2002 prior to the election, and then yanked it right back to sane levels after they had been re-elected). Gilmore is making the same mistake when he tells people that 34 billion in income can support 55 billion in spending indefinitly.

Lockstep

Sand wrote: »

He tells people bull**** when he must know the truth himself - remember, the biggest factor in the unpopularity of Fianna Fail post 2002 was that they were perceived to have lied about the economy in the leadup to the 2002 election ( in that they accelerated spending by 22% in 2002 prior to the election, and then yanked it right back to sane levels after they had been re-elected). Gilmore is making the same mistake when he tells people that 34 billion in income can support 55 billion in spending indefinitly.

Ah but if he's been saying similar things in different circumstances then he can hardly be accused of populism. That would require him to tell people exactly what they wanted to hear, and in 2007 we were still in Celtic Tiger mode, and yet he was still being his usual self.
Labour's support has gone up since then but was static at the time.

doc_17

gilmore has done ok. but its much easir to be on the outside lobbing grenades in than actually having to do anything. he is great at being outraged though!

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

There was a difference though. Lisbon needed all-party support to guarantee it would be passed. FG dont have to publically support anything because FF dont need them to pass anything. What might be best for the country is not necessarily best for FG in order to get them into power next election.

cutting public sector wages and cutting wellfare is good for the country , supporting such a move is good for fine gael as thier is a sleeping giant of private sector tax payers and also unemployed former private sector voters who have no party who see them as thier priority , why fine gael are not gunning for this demographic is what keeps me up at night

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

irish_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

i believe such an opportunity now exists for fine gael to aim for single party goverment without the milestone around their neck which is labour , we are living in unprecedented times ,possible economic collapse , mass exodus of traditional core fianna fail support , with the right leader , fine gael can hoover up the non public sector vote , i believe they must do two things , declare war on the unions and replace enda kenny , the man makes swing voters think twice

merley getting into goverment should not be the height of fine gael,s ambitions and if yet another coaltion involving labour is the limit to the parties aspirations , i for one despair for the future

Taxipete29

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is a tad misleading. It was Ruairi Quinn as finance minister who kept Governmnet spending under control which was necesary for Irelands admittance into the first wave of countries to adopt the Euro. There is no evidence to suggest that Labour are in favour of spending more than we have. In fact the evidence is to the contrary.

FF are the Government who have spent big, lumping Labour in there is nonsense considering they have been out of power as long as FG.

FGs proposal in opposition to NAMA is no better than Labours plan to nationalise the banks. I dont see any of the great hope that you speak of.

Enda may appear to have shown leadership with his Seanad stunt, but it took him 4 days to get the full support of his party after that. Thats not the mark of a great political leader imo.

The biggest issue for most people in this country is Jobs. Keeping a job, getting a job, creating jobs. The cuts we need will stop this country going over the edge, but longer term we need a real strategy to bring us back to real economic growth. Where are the ideas from all parties on how they are going to achieve this?? This will be the single biggest issue come election time and the party with the best spin on job creation will get the votes

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

i believe such an opportunity now exists for fine gael to aim for single party goverment without the milestone around their neck which is labour , we are living in unprecedented times ,possible economic collapse , mass exodus of traditional core fianna fail support , with the right leader , fine gael can hoover up the non public sector vote , i believe they must do two things , declare war on the unions and replace enda kenny , the man makes swing voters think twice

merley getting into goverment should not be the height of fine gael,s ambitions and if yet another coaltion involving labour is the limit to the parties aspirations , i for one despair for the future

It was the rainbow coalitions policies which set this country on the road to the Celtic-Tiger era. This notion that FG and Labour cant work together well is a fallacy. In other periods of our history I will grant you this was the case, but as the last coalition proved there is a sensible middle ground which can lead this country forward.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Taxipete29

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Labour know what needs to be done but that would be playing right into FF hands publically saying as much. If Labour and FG both come out for big PS cuts then FF have the backing of all political parties to go and do it. The crisis will be averted and FF will be the heros of the day and the fools that voted them in 2 years ago will do so again based on the fact, " sure the other crowd are no different, better the devil you".

The facts are there is very little an alternative government can do differently in the short term. Thats why Labour keep hammering on NAMA, thats why Enda made his bold gesture last weekend. They have to oppose FF. You cant do that by agreeing with them.

I know that none of the above is good for the country, what we need is a united front to guide us out of this mess but its never going to happen. A national government was what was needed but that ship has long sailed. The opposition will continue to play politics until the Government falls. They cant actually change anything FF are doing anyway. Its the nature of opposition politics. That may be a very cynical view of our political system but thats how I feel.

10000maniacs

Sand wrote: »

Iceland is not Ireland. Vastly different situations.

Here you go with this *we* **** again. *We* werent hours from bankruptcy. Your bank was because they were ****ing incompetent. I speak as someone with a fair amount in my bank account and I still dont buy this **** that I as an Irish citizen was somehow acting as a last resort lender for your ****ty banks balance sheet. Move your deposits to a bank that isnt run like a ****ing circus if you want it safe. Lenihan made a ****ing despicably stupid decision and Irish government policy since then has been reacting to the sheer, gross, moronic stupidity of the blanket guarantee, not only on deposits but also on investment instruments like bonds.

Bless you.:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

thebman

GUIGuy wrote: »

In the majority they are (our) pension funds, other banks/institutions and govts.

See whenever I see that the bondholders were our pensions, all I read is fook the kids (next generation) as long as I'm alright.

Of coures that fits perfectly in with vote buying as the elderly are more likely to vote than those that can't or are in college away from home when the elections are on Thursday.