Who was the best Taoiseach

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Lets not forget Enda Kenny and Fine Geal were encouraging the government to spend even more when they were in opposition. We were practically forced to pay of debt belong to European banks. Our over spending is nothing in comparison with the debt we will be paying off for the next 30 or 40 years.

Firstly, this is completely irrelevant as to how useless and corrupt Ahern was.

Secondly, presumably you would also argue that Kenny would have been an even better Taoiseach than Ahern, as if he actually enacted the policies you say he was urging, we would have had an even bigger bubble with people earning even more?

newmug

jobbridge4life wrote: »

You can't honestly be serious?

Why cant I? Just because you have a different view doesnt mean I cant be serious about mine. Go on, explain why you seem so dismayed at my choices.

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

Secondly, presumably you would also argue that Kenny would have been an even better Taoiseach than Ahern, as if he actually enacted the policies you say he was urging, we would have had an even bigger bubble with people earning even more?

Any Taoiseach that has almost every person thats able to work in a job is a good one in my eyes. All the new motorways and roads were done under Bertie. I'm not old enough to comment on previous governments but the only time I've had a bit of hope was under Bertie.

jobbridge4life

newmug wrote: »

Why cant I? Just because you have a different view doesnt mean I cant be serious about mine.

I mean I know that it was just a bit of hyperbole/turn of phrase.

newmug wrote: »

Go on, explain why you seem so dismayed at my choices.

The civil war. His economic policy. His social policy.

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Any Taoiseach that has almost every person thats able to work in a job is a good one in my eyes. All the new motorways and roads were done under Bertie. I'm not old enough to comment on previous governments but the only time I've had a bit of hope was under Bertie.

Bertie was the guy who drove us off a cliff. It was a hell of a ride, and I'm sure people thought it was a great thrill. Cowan was the dupe holding the wheel when we hit the ground. I really can't make it any simpler for you.

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

Bertie was the guy who drove us off a cliff. It was a hell of a ride, and I'm sure people thought it was a great thrill. Cowan was the dupe holding the wheel when we hit the ground. I really can't make it any simpler for you.

I know what went on. What's wrong with liking a Taoiseach who had me and all my friends and family in good jobs? Should I prefer to be doing some jobridge scheme or something? Theres always going to be booms and busts, more of a world problem than Bertie or Fianna Fails.

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

I know what went on. What's wrong with liking a Taoiseach who had me and all my friends and family in good jobs? Should I prefer to be doing some jobridge scheme or something? Theres always going to be booms and busts, more of a world problem than Bertie or Fianna Fails.

Do you know what caused the bust?

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

Do you know what caused the bust?

The boom?

ComfortKid

We were shafted by the European banks to take on massive debts that weren't ours. Thats whats causing the austerity, the bail out. Did Bertie have anything to do with the bailout?

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

The boom?

Exaclty. Or the Bubble, as it should be called.

So the cause of the misery and unemployment and the cuts of the last 7 years is...Bertie Ahern.

Oh, and he was crooked too.


It's funny actually, friends and I used to joke a few years ago that there would be a certain percentage of people who thought that Ahern was great because of the Bubble. It's rather depressing to see that we were actually right.

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

So the cause of the misery and unemployment and the cuts of the last 7 years is...Bertie Ahern.

So you think it wouldn't of happened if Bertie wasn't in charge?
Yes we overspent, but isn't the main reason the bail out? Paying unsecured bonds. Its like walking in to paddypower, placing a bet and even if you lose you still get your money. Who paid the bondholders? It wasn't Bertie

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

So you think it wouldn't of happened if Bertie wasn't in charge?
Yes we overspent, but isn't the main reason the bail out? Paying unsecured bonds. Its like walking in to paddypower, placing a bet and even if you lose you still get your money. Who paid the bondholders? It wasn't Bertie

There are a million places where you can learn about this stuff. Ahern was a crooked clown who destroyed the economy. But don't take my word for it - open a book.

ezra_pound

ComfortKid wrote: »

We were shafted by the European banks to take on massive debts that weren't ours. Thats whats causing the austerity, the bail out. Did Bertie have anything to do with the bailout?

No. That's not true. The austerity was necessary because once the ahern ponzi scheme collapsed we were spending c. 20bn more per year than we were raising in tax. Bank bailout or not we were heading towards the same general level of austerity.

ComfortKid

ezra_pound wrote:

No. That's not true. The austerity was necessary because once the ahern ponzi scheme collapsed we were spending c. 20bn more per year than we were raising in tax. Bank bailout or not we were heading towards the same general level of austerity.

Same level? So the 44billion we gave Europe made no difference?

suites

I would vote for bertie ahern any day of the week he was the best minister for labour ever , the best minister for finance ever, the best taoiseach ever without doubt. unfortuneatly he will be judged on getting caught with envelopes unlike the rest of them who where never caught. the bust was caused by greed of the bankers and the financiers of this world and all their ilk, just like they bankrolled hitlers nazi party for fear of the communists taking over and their massive wealth would be gone another gamble they lost and the greed here in ireland was the same .our friendliness was lost in it people wanted to have more than the next person and the greedy bankers where only happy to fiddle papers to lend to them . they and there is an awful lot of them thought there was no tomorrow ,houses barely worth 80.000 where been sold for 500.000 but people where happy to borrow it to get them. and this same bankers would have people put in jail for falling on hard times and in arrears. the economy of the world had a huge impact on us here in ireland due to our banks gamboling on world markets that went belly up the u.k was broke ,as was the usa and iceland spain portugal and bertie wasn't even in charge of them lol.

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Same level? So the 44billion we gave Europe made no difference?

Almost none. Work out how much of it is repaid each year, then compare it to 20 billion.

Long Gone

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Having personally witnessed Cowan being held aloft and cheered as he won his seat in 2007.......

Yes - By a bunch of moronic bog men FF hacks in Clara......:o

Long Gone

suites wrote: »

I would vote for bertie ahern any day of the week he was the best minister for labour ever , the best minister for finance ever, the best taoiseach ever without doubt. unfortuneatly he will be judged on getting caught with envelopes unlike the rest of them who where never caught. the bust was caused by greed of the bankers and the financiers of this world and all their ilk, just like they bankrolled hitlers nazi party for fear of the communists taking over and their massive wealth would be gone another gamble they lost and the greed here in ireland was the same .our friendliness was lost in it people wanted to have more than the next person and the greedy bankers where only happy to fiddle papers to lend to them . they and there is an awful lot of them thought there was no tomorrow ,houses barely worth 80.000 where been sold for 500.000 but people where happy to borrow it to get them. and this same bankers would have people put in jail for falling on hard times and in arrears. the economy of the world had a huge impact on us here in ireland due to our banks gamboling on world markets that went belly up the u.k was broke ,as was the usa and iceland spain portugal and bertie wasn't even in charge of them lol.

Have you considered seeking some psychiatric help ?

ballsymchugh

Bradlin wrote: »

If Haughey hadn't been so corrupt he would go down in history as the one whose changes made a meaningful difference.

Bertie couldn't make a decision to save his life because his sole motivation was getting re-elected over doing anything that would risk that. He was also the luckiest Taoiseach in the history of the State, given the positive global economic backdrop which delivered the economic 'groat'.

Albert was completely out of his depth and had very little between his two ears aside from what a smart cattle dealer would have.

Dev allowed his anti-Brit bitterness to dictate a protectionist policy which reined in the country's growth for decades.

Enda is getting tons of credit for implementing a policy which is none of his making, namely that of the Troika, and he/Noonan failed miserably to secure any debt concessions for the hard-pressed taxpayer.

Garrett and Bruton, two honest and honourable men, like Enda, delivered nothing of note and hence are difficult to assess.

Lemass appears to have made a positive contribution and wasn't corrupt and hence probably wins the award, but he ain't got much competition!

you rate the taoiseach under whose watch the north almost went back to the abyss higher than the one who dragged it out of it?
bruton was embarrassing, and is possibly more embarrassing since he left office

suites

i have a message for you long gone .dont shoot the rabbit, its a very bad habit,and although you may think that its fun ,but it would not be funny ,if you where the bunny, and i was the one with the gun.
and to think you decried hitler, anyone that does not align to your moronic views needs psychiatric help , id say you took your ball in if the other kids didn't pass it to you . you sound like a spoiled brat from the boom oh that could be a title of your new movie lol.

gladrags

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Ireland has never had a great Taoiseach, we have had lots of bad and a few ok ones. Lemass, John Costello and Bruton never put a foot wrong so those 3 would be top IMO. Haughey and Ahern were probably our best but at the same time our worst due to corruption etc.

John Bruton .??

gladrags

That German woman,and that Draggy bloke.

They ran the country,without being elected.

rafatoni

Bertie Ahern mentioned, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Unbelievable how people forget so quickly. Stunning really.

suites

and dev famous quote about the irish working class looking for their rights ."we should never have educated them"

RecordStraight

suites wrote: »

its in the feeding and rearing

I lolled. Well played.

suites

rafatoni wrote: »

Bertie Ahern mentioned, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Unbelievable how people forget so quickly. Stunning really.

and tell us what you don't like about bertie

ComfortKid

rafatoni wrote:

Bertie Ahern mentioned, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Unbelievable how people forget so quickly. Stunning really.

Forget all the jobs he created? Forget all the infrastructure he funded? Forget all that because he was caught out for a bit of corruption?

ComfortKid

Was Ireland ever as productive under any other Taoiseach besides Bertie?

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Forget all the jobs he created? Forget all the infrastructure he funded? Forget all that because he was caught out for a bit of corruption?

Sigh.

Enda Kenny has created over 100,000 jobs from the ashes of our crash. He's a genius.

ComfortKid

Real Jobs or courses,schemes,jobridge and tus?

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Real Jobs or courses,schemes,jobridge and tus?

Real jobs, not including Job bridge etc.

The man is a legend.

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

The man is a legend.

I and thousands even hundreds of thousands of others like me haven't noticed this "recovery" at all.
Really, Legend?

suites

ill tell you a true story about the late R.I.P charlie haughey .i was attending a gig down by the custom house years back and as i was walking along i met mr haughey we got talking about the new financial centre ect when this poor homeless man came up to us and said to mr haughey "excuse me sir would you have a light " mr haughey replied"i am sorry but i don't smoke he then asked me if i would have a light and i gave him the lighter to keep and the poor man went on his way .mr haughey then summoned his secretary and told him that he wanted a permanent lighter built at the custom house so that anyone that needed a light could get one.and as you see to this day the sculpture with the permanent light courtesy of mr haughey . believe it or not

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

I and thousands even hundreds of thousands of others like me haven't noticed this "recovery" at all.
Really, Legend?

That's not Enda's fault. He's busy growing the economy at the fastest rate in Europe and creating tens of thousands of jobs each year.

rafatoni

ComfortKid wrote: »

Forget all the jobs he created? Forget all the infrastructure he funded? Forget all that because he was caught out for a bit of corruption?

Your giving yourself a high blood pressure with your bertie love in. Cool down and take 2 pain killers.

ComfortKid

suites wrote:

ill tell you a true story about the late R.I.P charlie haughey .i was attending a gig down by the custom house years back and as i was walking along i met mr haughey we got talking about the new financial centre ect when this poor homeless man came up to us and said to mr haughey "excuse me sir would you have a light " mr haughey replied"i am sorry but i don't smoke he then asked me if i would have a light and i gave him the lighter to keep and the poor man went on his way .mr haughey then summoned his secretary and told him that he wanted a permanent lighter built at the custom house so that anyone that needed a light could get one.and as you see to this day the sculpture with the permanent light courtesy of mr haughey . believe it or not

Lovley story but how much did that lighter cost? Maybe a permanent bed would have been a better idea?

_Brian

Is it not near impossible as many faced no real challenge compared to others.

Some average leaders could possible have uppd their game if faced by real tough times but we're never challenged.

ComfortKid

rafatoni wrote:

Your giving yourself a high blood pressure with your bertie love in. Cool down and take 2 pain killers.

Painkillers for high blood pressure?

RecordStraight

ComfortKid wrote: »

Painkillers for high blood pressure?

Some people have a habit of confusing what causes what.

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

Some people have a habit of confusing what causes what.

I see your joke and it's very funny but it's a terrible comeback to the post you quoted.

suites

there is no taoisech that can creat a job except in the civil service or spin doctors ,its all down to the tax incentives and tax avoidance scams that they come here and it is at the expense of their own country. we only have agriculture and a dying fishing industry and tempory building work and the service industry oh and the new water industry . its like all things they get incentivised to locate here then if there is a better deal elsewhere there off like a hot snot lol

RecordStraight

suites wrote: »

there is no taoisech that can creat a job except in the civil service or spin doctors

I agree with this. All you can do is create an environment for jobs to be created - they create nothing directly except by spending our money to hire people.

ComfortKid

suites wrote:

any way getting back on track who is the best taoiseach lol lol

Bertie Ahern ;-)

suites

i would vote for bertie,but i stipulate that his suits have no pockets in them lol lol

suites

ComfortKid wrote: »

Bertie Ahern ;-)

best ever

suites

ok lets expand on this thread . what would your ideal taoiseach be , what would make him or her stand out like a beacon so most people would say now that is a good taoiseach ??????

ComfortKid

RecordStraight wrote:

Enda Kenny has created over 100,000 jobs from the ashes of our crash. He's a genius.

RecordStraight wrote:

I agree with this. All you can do is create an environment for jobs to be created - they create nothing directly except by spending our money to hire people.

??

ComfortKid

suites wrote:

ok lets expand on this thread . what would your ideal taoiseach be , what would make him or her stand out like a beacon so most people would say now that is a good taoiseach ??????

It's hard to say. The poor would like a Taoiseach that'll tax the rich crazy amounts. The rich would like a Taoiseach that cuts benefits. I just want a job ha.

suites

alas thats the reality of our country tax the rich they up sticks or do as they do now become tax exiles i admire michael oleary of ryanair he pays his taxes here.tax the workers they go on strike ,cut benefits nobody cares except those unfortunate to have no work available to them and those that have plenty berate them. their are lots of advocates for a just society but when it comes to the crunch they don't bite. most people decry the health service because there are nearly more managers than doctors nurses ect and rightly so. then if you asked people to pay more taxes to fund a proper health service they be up in arms. so we are never going to get a utopia here anytime . i hope comfort you get that job your looking for,as for me i am long time retired but would love to work again but alas i am at the bus stop of life each day a bonus or a curse lol.

ComfortKid

suites wrote:

alas thats the reality of our country tax the rich they up sticks or do as they do now become tax exiles i admire michael oleary of ryanair he pays his taxes here.tax the workers they go on strike ,cut benefits nobody cares except those unfortunate to have no work available to them and those that have plenty berate them. their are lots of advocates for a just society but when it comes to the crunch they don't bite. most people decry the health service because there are nearly more managers than doctors nurses ect and rightly so. then if you asked people to pay more taxes to fund a proper health service they be up in arms. so we are never going to get a utopia here anytime . i hope comfort you get that job your looking for me i am long time retired but would love to work again but alas i am at the bus stop of life each day a bonus or a curse lol.

About the HSE. People are up in arms because no matter how much money gets pumped in to it,nothing changes. Tax more for same services?