Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

Dave!

mike65 wrote: »

Soccer Sunday is on now (RTE2) then MOTD2 is on at 10pm, BBC2
Two hours of quality tv.

I shall be watching..... But I may have to leave briefly to throw up.

SlickRic

ha, the ref really was awful.

that sliding 'tackle' on berba that cleared him out on the edge of the box was priceless.

Fromvert

Delighted with the performance today. Ref was shocking.

Hopefully we kick on from here.

I ****ing love Pepe first player to get to N'gog after the goal.

monkey9

mike65 wrote: »

Soccer Sunday is on now (RTE2) then MOTD2 is on at 10pm, BBC2
Two hours of quality tv.

Not forgetting LFC TV at midnight!!

Aidric

Just watching the highlights again there. It should be stated for the record that the ref had an absolutely abject performance, completely out of his depth.

SlickRic

Aidric wrote: »

Just watching the highlights again there. It should be stated for the record that the ref had an absolutely abject performance, completely out of his depth.

it has been.

many, many times.

Fromvert

Aidric wrote: »

Just watching the highlights again there. It should be stated for the record that the ref had an absolutely abject performance, completely out of his depth.

But the boys on RTE thought he had a good game:eek:

SlickRic

Fromvert wrote: »

But the boys on RTE thought he had a good game:eek:

well if they say so

mike65

Spirit, application, honesty of endevour. That what wins you games, not the ref.

Handsome Bob

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Of course they were, and I'm guessing if the weren't then they would have walked this game right? :rolleyes: I'm sorry to have a go but it pisses me off, what you're saying here is exactly what the likes of Dunphy, Cascarino, Haughton, Whelan, Gray et al will say tomorrow in their columns. I.E. Liverpool winning the game wasn't because they genuinely deserved it but because Man U didn't turn up. Pathetic.

OMG Ronnie proved me right!!!111!!!!! :eek: :rolleyes:

flahavaj

Player ratings from www.football365.com

Liverpool fans are not gonna be happy.:eek:

LIVERPOOL

Reina: Not much to do. Being a little too quick to distribute the ball when Liverpool needed to keep possession was his only crime. Gets extra points for punching Vidic in the head while throwing out the ball and giving him a sly kick for good measure.
Rating (out of 100): 68.

Johnson: Oddly subdued. Little attacking, one massively over hit cross and a decent bit of sweeping at the end was about it.
Rating: 59.

Carragher: Could easily have given away a penalty in the first half, just skimming the ball and taking Carrick with him - surely a foul anywhere else on the pitch. Was a lucky boy not to be sent off by an officious referee for pulling down Owen. Some top notch full body blocks but he gives the impression of a man just hanging on to his art-form, occasionally playing from instinct. Looked shattered at the end.
Rating: 73.

Agger: Pushed Giggs in the back in the first half and could easily have given away a penalty. Some poor headers and ceded possession too often despite not being put under much pressure. Annoyingly invokes Black Lace with every mention.
Rating: 51

Insua: Gave the ball away early on and nearly let United in. Over-hit crosses, and was occasionally exposed by Valencia's pace. Disappeared in the second half.
Rating: 44.

Mascherano: Had a quiet first half with an occasional long punt at goal and some messy fouling his only contribution. Much busier second half as Liverpool started to dominate midfield. His two yellows and subsequent red were eminently avoidable. He has the air of man who couldn't really give a damn though. Developed an impressive 5 O'clock shadow during the game.
Rating: 54.

Lucas: Not good enough to play for any side with ambition. Awful passes, scuffs a shot badly, commits a lot of fouls and balloons plenty over the bar. You'd get more from a space-hopper. Did a couple of decent breaks in the 2nd half. Apparently, this was hit best performance for Liverpool. Blimey.
Rating: 34.

Kuyt: It goes without saying he was busy but today he married his prodigious work load with a progressive dynamism. Retains the ball better than any other Liverpool player and was at the heart of a lot of what was good about his side. It feels as though he is doing both his and everyone else's.
Rating: 81.

Benayoun: He was Liverpool's most effective player early on then faded out the game for half an hour after being nutted in the back of the head by Evra. And there's the problem with him. There's no doubting his talent but it's not evenly applied throughout a game. Closed players down well and a willingness to shoot more quickly may have got him a goal late on.
Rating: 69.

Aurelio: I can never remember what Aurelio looks like and his play is similarly anonymous. He took a few decent corners and made Van Der Saar save from a header but that's about where it all ends. As with Lucas, you're left with the feeling that Kuyt is carrying their work-load.
Rating: 57.

Torres: Spent large swathes of the game looking listless and not even touching the ball. But what a goal. He was clearly not fully fit and played with a pain-killing injection. Since that is the very definition of a performance enhancing drug, why is it legal? He may have the highlights and hair cut of a trainee hairdresser but is one of the finest strikers of his generation. Just as well really as Liverpool didn't look like scoring from anywhere else.
Rating: 77.

Ngog: Came on. Kicked the ball out. Looked useless, then scored. Still a bit rubbish though, obviously.


MANCHESTER UNITED

Van Der Sar: A brilliant double save in the first half along with effective punching and kicking made this an almost flawless performance. This surprises me because I see him as Emo Phillips - who would be a rubbish goalkeeper.
Rating: 80.

O'Shea: I always assume O'Shea is only playing because everyone else is injured. He has a nasty habit of passing it square across the box and running into his own players. No major gaffs, no major contribution.
Rating: 54.

Ferdinand: At times it appeared he'd left the pitch, as every major bit of defending was being done by Vidic. A silly chipped back pass to Van Der Saar had to be volleyed away in the first half. Even by the time he was thoroughly shafted by Torres for the goal he'd been reduced to knocking it across the back, seemingly too inhibited to do anything else. Not many could have lived with Torres on that run but the old Rio could have. Where has he gone? Losing your form is one thing, losing your bottle is a bigger, more worrying problem.
Rating: 40.

Vidic: Won most of his battles with Torres, getting - as the vernacular would have it - right up his backside, on more than one occasion. United's best defender but wasn't up against much competition in that regard. Disturbingly he bears the look of one of those glassy-eyed men you see in CK underwear adverts.
Rating: 70.

Evra: His yellow card for tackling Torres and in doing so taking both man and ball was the same sort of tackle that Carragher committed on Carrick, but got away with. Got very arsey as the game went on. Like most of United, he was ineffective going forward and increasingly sloppy at passing as the game went on.
Rating: 56.

Valencia: Looked to have the beating of Insua in the first half but little came of it. His second half performance consisted of committing fouls that stopped United counterattacks and one rasping shot that hit the bar. Just not doing enough and has never, ever smiled in his entire life.
Rating: 56.

Scholes: For half an hour in the first half he was the best player on the pitch. Restlessly effective, always finding space to take and give passes; he dominated the midfield for a while. But in the second half that Scholes had been replaced by a leaden footed imposter who lost all influence. Can you win a title with part-time players?
Rating: 61.

Carrick: Over-hits a stupid amount of passes. His first half was a disaster; Messy to the point of dissolution. Much improved after the break playing important parts in a couple of counter-attacks. Not really not good enough, especially as he was playing against the warm guff of hot air that was Lucas.
Rating: 51.

Giggs: Some great diagonal passing and an occasional effective corner and free kick were in the plus column. But far too many set-plays were poorly delivered. Another part-time performance.
Rating: 58.

Berbatov: Had a good first half deploying his usual 'I-could-have-a-fag-drink-a-pint-and-do-this football-business-all-at-the-same-time laconic smoothness. Lots of nice back heels and lay offs. Sadly, he appeared to hallucinate at least twice passing the ball to invisible United players then seemed to lose interest in the second half after getting cross over being awarded a yellow card. Aw diddums. Have a ciggie and calm down, son.
Rating: 65.

Rooney: Was he fully fit? Really? A low energy performance by his standards. Rarely troubled Liverpool's defence and spent too much time too deep, especially in the first half. Linked with Berbatov nicely for a while but it all lacked penetration. I found myself missing the red-faced force of nature of 5 years ago.
Rating: 55.


Owen: Didn't touch it for five minutes. Got pulled down. The end.
Nani: The usual mix of bluster and awful shooting.


THE REF...
Andre Mariner: Shoddy, over-officious refereeing, Mariner is exactly the sort of ref that both players and fans hate. He missed a lot but blew up for innocuous stuff. Had to balance out a pro-Liverpool perception in the first half with a lot of generous United decisions in the second. Just out and out poor.
Rating: 35.


AND THE REST...
Sky Coverage. A pro-Liverpool panel over-rated their performance in the first half. Souness calls it 'fabulous' at the end. It was a good win but a long way from fabulous. Jamie, almost Prescott-like says Giggs has 'a wand of magic left foot.' Wish I got his money for saying that.

Coppell was innately dull if decent. Souy, far too restrained. At least we got to hear Run Through The Jungle by Creedence Clearwater Revival though.

The footage from old games 1978-94 shows red flares burning, muddy pitches, messy wild crowds and messy wild looking players. By contrast, today's affair looked and sounded rather sanitized.
Rating: 61.

Overall Game Rating: 56. Rather boring for the neutral.

Bandit12

Ronnie Whelan>>>> An embarassment to himself tbh.

SlickRic

that is a shocking analysis.

kuyt better than masch and lucas?

retains the ball better than any liverpool player? *chuckle*

lucas our worst player?

from reading those ratings you'd swear carrick and scholes dominated midfield.

that sort of analysis should be outlawed.

Headshot

Berbatov: Had a good first half deploying his usual 'I-could-have-a-fag-drink-a-pint-and-do-this football-business-all-at-the-same-time laconic smoothness. Lots of nice back heels and lay offs. Sadly, he appeared to hallucinate at least twice passing the ball to invisible United players then seemed to lose interest in the second half after getting cross over being awarded a yellow card. Aw diddums. Have a ciggie and calm down, son.
Rating: 65.

I cant believe he got 65

now that is a proper fail, the ref was better than berba ffs

Aidric

spot on

flahavaj

Pure trolling by yer man from football 365. Scholes the best midfielder on the pitch for 60 mins? Fella must be stoned or something.:eek:

copacetic

flahavaj wrote: »

Player ratings from www.football365.com

Liverpool fans are not gonna be happy.:eek:

they are feckin hilarious, it's like they wrote them before the game or have ntlbell on retainer!

Can't say football365s opinion is going to make me any less happy though.

Bandit12

Hot of the presses

JPA

In fairness football365 takes the piss out of everything, including it's readers.

killwill

Bandit12 wrote: »

Hot of the presses

Was he really that bad today? I certainly didn't think so. I thought he did pretty well against a striker I rate as in the top 3 in the world. Rio on the other hand was very poor for the goal. On Torres, and I do really rate him highly, he is developing a serious touch of Drogbaitis which there is no need for. The man has oodles of talent.

Theresalwaysone

I actually agree with him about Vidic.

I honestly didnt see him put a foot wrong today really. Certainly wasnt scared of Torres. If anything, when he was marking Torres he did very well, Torres not really getting much done.

Show me the contrary though?

SlickRic

i just find it funny, accurate or not.

nkay1985

killwill wrote: »

Was he really that bad today? I certainly didn't think so. I thought he did pretty well against a striker I rate as in the top 3 in the world. Rio on the other hand was very poor for the goal. On Torres, and I do really rate him highly, he is developing a serious touch of Drogbaitis which there is no need for. The man has oodles of talent.

Yeah I thought Vidic wasn't bad at all. Won nearly every battle he was in. Ferdinand and Evra were off today but not Vidic.

ntlbell

copacetic wrote: »

they are feckin hilarious, it's like they wrote them before the game or have ntlbell on retainer!

Can't say football365s opinion is going to make me any less happy though.

You'll be glad to know i think his analysis is spot on it's prob spot because he follows neithier club.

if it was me i prob wouldnt have been so honest about some of the united players

lucas AT times was pretty awful

when he wasn't awful he was average

NOT making mistakes but doing little else does not make you some how world class

he just looked better today because he's usually CRAP.

so going from CRAP to average in one came can look a lot more than it really was.

liverpool beating united 2-0 you would think liverpool were awsome, but as stated it was a lot of huff and puff and scrap, with a bit of magic from benny and torres

apart from that on both sides it was all a bit meh.

it's called a reality check or if you like an honest assessment.

liverpool fans and united fans looking for a feather in the cap from the mods

"look at me i can be reasonable in the face of adversity" will think differently

give me a break.

copacetic

ntlbell wrote: »

You'll be glad to know i think his analysis is spot on it's prob spot because he follows neithier club.

You thinking it is spot on says enough for me certainly.

SlickRic

ntlbell wrote: »

liverpool fans and united fans looking for a feather in the cap from the mods

"look at me i can be reasonable in the face of adversity" will think differently

give me a break.

or you're both just wrong, and the reasoned analysis of the game is in fact true.

Handsome Bob

I think it's high time you took that Michael Owen pic out of your sig ntlbell, as if it's some kind of badge of honour lol.

Dr. Nick

mike65 wrote: »

Spirit, application, honesty of endevour. That what wins you games, not the ref.

I like this comment.

Pro. F

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Of course they were, and I'm guessing if the weren't then they would have walked this game right? :rolleyes:

Come off it! You put words in my mouth and then you got angry with those words - that's just stupid. I said United played shìte today, I didn't say what would have happened if we'd played well. I don't know what would have happened if we'd played well.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm sorry to have a go but it pisses me off, what you're saying here is exactly what the likes of Dunphy, Cascarino, Haughton, Whelan, Gray et al will say tomorrow in their columns. I.E. Liverpool winning the game wasn't because they genuinely deserved it but because Man U didn't turn up. Pathetic.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

One of the most consistently frustrating aspects of football analysis. You don't play football in a vacuum. A team's performance is a function of how effective their opponent's gameplan is, how efficiently they close them down and deny them space and time on the ball.

There's two things going on here imo. How pundits treat Liverpool in general and how i'm analysing this game in particular.

The way Liverpool play under Benitez is primarilly based around stopping the other team playing. They are probably the best team in Europe at doing this. So i'm sure pundits don't give them enough credit when they beat a big team as the thing they do best is make the opposition look bad. So, boo hoo Dunphy never sings your praises, my heart bleeds for ye.

In the game today United didn't test the Liverpool defence at all properly and that pisses me off. We didn't hold onto the ball and we didn't use the ball to provide a decent platform for our wingers and strikers to test the back four. Now, I don't rate Carrick, i never have, i think he is no more than a useful journey-man and games like this are well beyond his ability. Scholes is a legend but he's getting on and when he is carrying a dead weight like Carrick beside him we always, always struggle to hold onto possession. Anderson and/or Fletcher have been involved in our best performances this season. I firmly believe that when Carrick plays we struggle to hold onto the ball.

United were shìt in the middle of the park today. You say it was because of how your team played, I say it was because of the dead weight that is Michael Carrick. Now that's not to say that liverpool didn't play well themselves, they did. But imho we didn't really test them properly today.

curry-muff

mike65 wrote: »

Spirit, application, honesty of endevour. That what wins you games, not the ref.

Lolz, unless it favours united of course :rolleyes:

Then its a disgrace :rolleyes:

killwill

curry-muff wrote: »

Lolz, unless it favours united of course :rolleyes:

Then its a disgrace :rolleyes:

Quote of the day anyone?

Spiritoftheseventies

Pro. F wrote: »

Come off it! You put words in my mouth and then you got angry with those words - that's just stupid. I said United played shìte today, I didn't say what would have happened if we'd played well. I don't know what would have happened if we'd played well.




There's two things going on here imo. How pundits treat Liverpool in general and how i'm analysing this game in particular.

The way Liverpool play under Benitez is primarilly based around stopping the other team playing. They are probably the best team in Europe at doing this. So i'm sure pundits don't give them enough credit when they beat a big team as the thing they do best is make the opposition look bad. So, boo hoo Dunphy never sings your praises, my heart bleeds for ye.

In the game today United didn't test the Liverpool defence at all properly and that pisses me off. We didn't hold onto the ball and we didn't use the ball to provide a decent platform for our wingers and strikers to test the back four. Now, I don't rate Carrick, i never have, i think he is no more than a useful journey-man and games like this are well beyond his ability. Scholes is a legend but he's getting on and when he is carrying a dead weight like Carrick beside him we always, always struggle to hold onto possession. Anderson and/or Fletcher have been involved in our best performances this season. I firmly believe that when Carrick plays we struggle to hold onto the ball.

United were shìt in the middle of the park today. You say it was because of how your team played, I say it was because of the dead weight that is Michael Carrick. Now that's not to say that liverpool didn't play well themselves, they did. But imho we didn't really test them properly today.

United have had three games to test liverpool now. And normally its from corner kicks. No one up front for United who is remotely as good as Torres. He is a class apart.

mike65

curry-muff wrote: »

Lolz, unless it favours united of course :rolleyes:

Then its a disgrace :rolleyes:

Are you dissing the great thoughts of John Giles?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Just thought of one of tomorrows headlines.




David N'Go - liath

Pro. F

killwill wrote: »

Was he really that bad today? I certainly didn't think so. I thought he did pretty well against a striker I rate as in the top 3 in the world. Rio on the other hand was very poor for the goal.

Overall United's defence wasn't the problem today imo. Vidic was alright as you say. I wouldn't even worry to much about Rio getting skinned by Torres. You can't play like United did today and then point the finger at the defence for conceding one from Torres and another when everyone was forward chasing the game.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes Whelan put it well. Take either Torres and Gerrard out of that team and we look very ordinary. Torres is invaluable to our team. And as one pundit put it at weekend, if Rafa goes Torres will probably go with him.
Better team won today.

jebidiah

does anyone know where i could catch the highlights? pref rtes ones??

K-9

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes Whelan put it well. Take either Torres and Gerrard out of that team and we look very ordinary. Torres is invaluable to our team. And as one pundit put it at weekend, if Rafa goes Torres will probably go with him.
Better team won today.

The ould clean sheet helps too!

mike65

jebidiah wrote: »

does anyone know where i could catch the highlights? pref rtes ones??

www.rte.ie/player

rossie1977

Pro. F wrote: »

The way Liverpool play under Benitez is primarilly based around stopping the other team playing.

sorry but just not buying that, liverpool were top scorers last season, scoring far more than the likes of arsenal, man utd or chelsea in the league, this year only arsenal have scored more so far despite liverpool having a terrible start, playing the worst football ever, on their worst run in 22 years blah blah blah blah

rossie1977

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes Whelan put it well. Take either Torres and Gerrard out of that team and we look very ordinary.

torres and gerrard only played together 14 times last year and liverpool beat utd without both but yet the myth still lingers (not that i ever thought it wouldn't :rolleyes:)

problem is many of those that worked their socks off last year in gerrard/torres continued absence have been well off the pace this, e.g. masch before today looked like a player on the way out, carragher has been nothing short of terrible, skrtel has been a joke so far and kuyt isn't playing at the level he was last season

MisterAnarchy

flahavaj wrote: »

Pure trolling by yer man from football 365. Scholes the best midfielder on the pitch for 60 mins? Fella must be stoned or something.:eek:

Was Scholes even playing ??
He was non existent in the match I watched.

cantgetright

still having the lad from ukraine on the bench shows how poor pools squad is

K-9

cantgetright wrote: »

still having the lad from ukraine on the bench shows how poor pools squad is

True. Hopefully Aquillani coming in will help as Lucas can be used as a squad player. The lad seems to thrive playing the big clubs. Arbelloa is there, Skyrtel and Babel. Hope he gets time against Arsenal.

N'Gog looks useful. The goal will do him good as he has a lot on his shoulders.

rossie1977

K-9 wrote: »

N'Gog looks useful. The goal will do him good as he has a lot on his shoulders.

according to one irish journalist this morning, N'gog is "an ineffective nobody"

journalism at its best :eek:

JPA

K-9 wrote: »

True. Hopefully Aquillani coming in will help as Lucas can be used as a squad player. The lad seems to thrive playing the big clubs. Arbelloa is there, Skyrtel and Babel. Hope he gets time against Arsenal.

N'Gog looks useful. The goal will do him good as he has a lot on his shoulders.

Arbeloa? Or have I misunderstood your post?

Mr.Nice Guy

rossie1977 wrote: »

torres and gerrard only played together 14 times last year and liverpool beat utd without both but yet the myth still lingers (not that i ever thought it wouldn't :rolleyes:)

In fairness it's hardly a myth considering Benitez himself said at the end of last season he thought Liverpool would have won the title if they'd been playing.

In my opinion this game didn't answer the serious shortcomings that affect Liverpool's title chances. As far as I'm concerned all it did was expose United's shortcomings.

Thanx 4 The Fish

K-9 wrote: »

True. Hopefully Aquillani coming in will help as Lucas can be used as a squad player. The lad seems to thrive playing the big clubs. Arbelloa is there, Skyrtel and Babel. Hope he gets time against Arsenal.

N'Gog looks useful. The goal will do him good as he has a lot on his shoulders.

Sorry mate, where is Arbeloa?

cantgetright

JPA wrote: »

Arbeloa? Or have I misunderstood your post?

interesting

Podge2k7

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Sorry mate, where is Arbeloa?

I'd say he means Aureillo.