Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

Theresalwaysone

Yeah I get it. Ive never said anything other than Liverpool fully deserved the win yesterday.

But to say Vidic had a bad game is wrong because he didnt. By all means, have a go at Carrick, Berbatov, Scholes etc but Vidic didnt have a bad game.

eddiehead

I just want to say this and I'm not aiming it specifically at users of this forum....
As a neutral I dont really like hearing people(United fans mostly) say something along the lines of "Oh God look at them Liverpool egit's dancing around like they won the league".
If Liverpool lost yesterday they would have effectively conceded defeat to Man United in the season where United can overtake them in league titles. Yesterdays result means Liverpool are still well capable of finishing above United this season, so I for one think 'Pool supporters have every right to go overboard celebrating this one.

jesus_thats_gre

I watched the match in a pub so didn't exactly get a great view but Vidic didn't look comfortable at all. He was unusually tight to Torres virtually every time he picked up the ball with his back to goal. Vidic, knowing that Torres would try turning him when in that close, was essentially tackling the area that he thought Torres was going to turn into. Sometimes it worked but more often than not, it resulted in a foul. For me, that isn't a defender that is playing with confidence. It is one playing like he knows he is going to end up second best over the course of the match. It happened with Johnson against Fulham and Agbonlahor against Villa last season. Am i right in thinking that this is Vidic's 3rd sending off in a row against Liverpool?

mike65

It is.

Oh did anyone metion it was Rafas 200th game in charge? Won 114, a rate of 57%

Eire-Dearg

Only bettered by Kenny Dalglish.

Rafa has won more games in his first 200 then Bob and Bill.

RasTa

So it seems Liverpool is the new bogey fixture for us, can't we change it back to Boro or Pompey?

Kess73

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Only bettered by Kenny Dalglish.

Rafa has won more games in his first 200 then Bob and Bill.

Rafa has done better in his first 200 than Arsene and Ferguson. Arsene has a 55% win ratio for his first 200 games, and Ferguson is somewhere around the 40% mark.

Pro. F

bayviewclose wrote: »

Ill agree United have better quality all round. But again Torres bar Drogba is best striker in Premiership.
Berbatov a bit lazy and for second season in a row we have snuffed out threat of Rooney.

Where the fùck did i say Torres isn't the best, or 2nd best, striker in the premiership?! You're having a conversation with yourself.

You think you won because your defence 'snuffed out' Rooney and because Berbatov 'is a bit lazy'. The truth is the game was won and lost in midfield. It was easy to see United were completely out played in the middle of the park. All other aspects of the game flowed from that.

killwill

JPA wrote: »

Jesus lads, Vidic could have had 4 yellows yesterday nevermind 2.

I'm not so sure about that. Lucas should have gotten booked in the first half, he had 6 fouls in the first his ridiculous half alone. Carragher should have gone and Torres diving/falling all over the place should have got booked too. Now I am not saying United should have won the game by any means but what stood out for me was the amount the 'Pool got away with. For the record I do think Vidic deserved to go.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

The truth is the game was won and lost in midfield. It was easy to see United were completely out played in the middle of the park. All other aspects of the game flowed from that.

So Lucas is better than Carrick and/or Scholes?

RasTa

Deleted User wrote: »

So Lucas is better than Carrick and/or Scholes?

Lucas and Masch is a better combo then Carrick+ Scholes. Arsene is a better manager then Rafa btw.

anplaya

Deleted User wrote: »

So Lucas is better than Carrick and/or Scholes?

no hes not saying that,hes saying the midfield played better than uniteds yesterday which they did.replace lucas with mascherano and ill say yes hes better than scholes or carrick.maybe not scholes in his heyday but he is now.

so yes they played better as a midfield than united did irrevelent of who played in mildfield.they were quicker,faster,stronger to almost every ball and didnt give uniteds midfielders any time on the ball apart from a small period of time in the 1st half,but when they came out again after half time they were back to doing what they were doing from the start of the game.

The Rooster

Deleted User wrote: »

So Lucas is better than Carrick and/or Scholes?

When was the last time Scholes had a really good game?

Fabulous footballer, but he's well finished. For some reason he's living off the praise Giggs is (deservedly) getting.

Playing Scholes in a 2 man centre midfield against a good team is handing a massive advantage to the opposition.

kinaldo

Any special reason why the Man Utd players have just ''failed to turn up'' against Liverpool for their last 3 encounters?

redzerdrog

as soon as i saw the teams named and seen scholes in a 2 man midfield with carrick I was rubbing my hands and could feel a whole load of confidance come back to me.

without fletcher the utd midfield is very poor, with carrick not himself, scholes past it and anderson just not good enough.

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

Lucas and Masch is a better combo then Carrick+ Scholes. Arsene is a better manager then Rafa btw.

anplaya wrote: »

no hes not saying that,hes saying the midfield played better than uniteds yesterday which they did.replace lucas with mascherano and ill say yes hes better than scholes or carrick.maybe not scholes in his heyday but he is now.

so yes they played better as a midfield than united did irrevelent of who played in mildfield.they were quicker,faster,stronger to almost every ball and didnt give uniteds midfielders any time on the ball apart from a small period of time in the 1st half,but when they came out again after half time they were back to doing what they were doing from the start of the game.

The Rooster wrote: »

When was the last time Scholes had a really good game?

Fabulous footballer, but he's well finished. For some reason he's living off the praise Giggs is (deservedly) getting.

Playing Scholes in a 2 man centre midfield against a good team is handing a massive advantage to the opposition.

So what you are saying is...yes? Lucas and Mascherano are better than Scholes and Carrick? Lucas is a top Premiership midfielder capable of dominating a top 4 team and controlling the game?

SlickRic

Deleted User wrote: »

So what you are saying is...yes? Lucas and Mascherano are better than Scholes and Carrick? Lucas is a top Premiership midfielder capable of dominating a top 4 team and controlling the game?

Pool fan here, and i'm not sure what you're digging for here.

the combo of lucas/masch is better than Scholes/Carrick when up against each other.

i don't think anyone's disputed that.

anplaya

Deleted User wrote: »

So what you are saying is...yes? Lucas and Mascherano are better than Scholes and Carrick? Lucas is a top Premiership midfielder capable of dominating a top 4 team and controlling the game?

i said they played better as a midfield together than carrick or scholes.doesnt necessary make lucas a better player than carrick or scholes.whatever he was told to do yesterday to stiffle them certainly worked.doesnt mean hes a player a la roy keane/patrick viera style who can dominate midfields,he doesnt seem to have that aura about him.however hes young and hes improving a lot imo.

RasTa

Deleted User wrote: »

So what you are saying is...yes? Lucas and Mascherano are better than Scholes and Carrick? Lucas is a top Premiership midfielder capable of dominating a top 4 team and controlling the game?

Yup, put those 4 together against each other right now and Lucas and Masch will come out on top as they are better at breaking up the play. More so Mach will break up the play and make Lucas look better. That's why we needed a Fletcher or Ando yesterday to help out Scholes.

Carrick isn't rated very highly at United.

Mr Alan

some relevant stats:

Leiva
39 passes
38 succesful
1 assist
97% pass completion
6 tackles attempted, 3 tackles won
2 interceptions
5 fouls conceded


Mascherano
31 passes
29 succesful
93% pass completion
7 tackles attempted, 5 tackles won
3 interceptions
2 fouls conceded
4 fouls won

---

Carrick
43 passes
34 succesful
79% pass completion
6 tackles attempted, 6 tackles won
2 interceptions
5 fouls won
0 fouls conceded

Scholes
40 passes
39 succesful
98% pass completion
5 tackles attempted, 5 tackles won
1 interceptions
0 fouls conceded
1 foul won

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

So Lucas is better than Carrick and/or Scholes?

He was yesterday. Mascherano and Lucas closed down the space and hassled and harried well. Carrick never hassles and harries, he intercepts well but that doesn't make up for his lack of energy. That's one of the reasons i have never rated him. Scholes' tackling ability has always been terrible but, more importantly, nowadays he doesn't have the energy to press the space properly for very long. He needs an energetic player beside him. That's the last thing Carrick is.

So Carrick and Scholes gave Masch and Lucas space and time on the ball, more and more as the game went on. And when we had possession, Carrick's inability to use the ball with limited space meant we couldn't hold onto possession.

Well that's my view of it anyway.

SlickRic

masch had two fouls yesterday?

that's a lie, surely.

curry-muff

Lucas only misplacing one pass, lol where did you get these stats, liverpool supporters forum?

anplaya

Mr Alan wrote: »

some relevant stats:

Leiva
39 passes
38 succesful
1 assist
97% pass completion
6 tackles attempted, 3 tackles won
2 interceptions
5 fouls conceded


Mascherano
31 passes
29 succesful
93% pass completion
7 tackles attempted, 5 tackles won
3 interceptions
2 fouls conceded
4 fouls won

---

Carrick
43 passes
34 succesful
79% pass completion
6 tackles attempted, 6 tackles won
2 interceptions
5 fouls won
0 fouls conceded

Scholes
40 passes
39 succesful
98% pass completion
5 tackles attempted, 5 tackles won
1 interceptions
0 fouls conceded
1 foul won

i dont think these stats are accurate,dont tell the full story.read them already and didnt believe them one bit.where did ya get them from?some sources have totally different stats up.

Mr Alan

from the guardian. just presumed they were accurate.

anplaya

Mr Alan wrote: »

from the guardian. just presumed they were accurate.

saw them earlier myself,no way theyre accurate.ya know from first glance if ya were watching the game sure.sky sports had totally different ones up too,totally different statistics.didnt bother looking for other ones.

Mr Alan

dermott gallagher on SSN says the ref got the carragher incident right, Owen was going away from the goal, not in control of the ball & Johnson was covering.

whatawaster

Pro. F wrote: »

So what's your point?

you said we have Torres and we have Rooney and Berbatov up front and implied that it meant you had more depth of quality up front. i was just pointing out that really in the systems Pool and United play:

Gerrard is the equivalent of Rooney and is imo better
Torres is the equivalent of Berbatov and is imo better

I think we have the stronger starters.
You have Owen, Wellbeck and Macheda as backup.
We have N'Gog and Voronin (as well as Kuyt and Babel) as backup.
I concede that your backup is slightly better, but not hugely.

The_Kew_Tour

Better more hungry team won yesterday.

United were very poor pretty much all round. They did seem to get into some decent scoring positions but some there efforts were lame as hell. Reember Nani effort in second half was just worthless.

Lucas prob had his best game for Pool yesterday

Only thing is though the celebrations by the Liverpool players was bit OTT. Ok they beaten there biggest rivals outside of Everton (debatable but ya know what im saying) but for Reina come all the way up!!.....

Anyway now is test for Liverpool can the beat the bread and butter teams and can they also win now next week also. They have time and time again beaten top 4 sides only for following week to drop silly points.

we wait and see

Eire-Dearg

Mr Alan wrote: »

dermott gallagher on SSN says the ref got the carragher incident right, Owen was going away from the goal, not in control of the ball & Johnson was covering.

that exactly as i saw it.

regarding vidic/kuyt, that was a yellow too because JOS (?) was covering. It was Kuyt after all, even if he didn't rugby tackle him someone would've caught up with him eventually. If it was Torres, they'd be eating his dust.

LuckyLloyd

adrian280582 wrote: »

Better more hungry team won yesterday.

United were very poor pretty much all round. They did seem to get into some decent scoring positions but some there efforts were lame as hell. Reember Nani effort in second half was just worthless.

Lucas prob had his best game for Pool yesterday

Only thing is though the celebrations by the Liverpool players was bit OTT. Ok they beaten there biggest rivals outside of Everton (debatable but ya know what im saying) but for Reina come all the way up!!.....

Anyway now is test for Liverpool can the beat the bread and butter teams and can they also win now next week also. They have time and time again beaten top 4 sides only for following week to drop silly points.

we wait and see

You were aware of the media circus that had surrounded them the past couple of weeks?

RasTa

Ref sticking up for another ref shocker. He got it wrong, even Mr Alan admitted it.

mike65

Rienas charge was brilliant, true esprit de corps stuff. Thats why he is so well thought of at the club. I wont even mention his Karaoke turns!

CCCP^

Anyone have any videos of the goals? I missed the match, followed it on BBC's website. Bloody work.

mike65

MOTD 2 highlights
http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-v-manchester-united-25999

stevoslice

anplaya wrote: »

saw them earlier myself,no way theyre accurate.ya know from first glance if ya were watching the game sure.sky sports had totally different ones up too,totally different statistics.didnt bother looking for other ones.

i was watching the game and those stats are a pretty good reflection to be honest, what reason would the guardian have to print made up stats!!!

Waster

ntlbell wrote: »

why?

incase he flicks his hair in his eye or something?

vidic fears no one.

jesus_thats_gre

Considering the crap that the manager and players have had to listen to from the press and the **** that fans have had to take from fans of other clubs in recent weeks, I thought the celebrations were somewhat understated..

Dave!

CCCP^ wrote: »

Anyone have any videos of the goals? I missed the match, followed it on BBC's website. Bloody work.

If I'm not mistaken, all video evidence of the match having taken place has been destroyed.....

Mr Alan

RasTa wrote: »

He got it wrong, even Mr Alan admitted it.

actually on seeing the incident about 10 times today on SSN i'll revise my statement to "Carra could have gone", wasn't as definate as i initially thought.

Waster

ntlbell wrote: »

carra shouldn't be on the pitch

disgraceful

Why not have a read of what a qualified ref thinks of the Carragher decisions?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1222963/Graham-Polls-Official-Line-Sorry-Sir-Alex-youre-wrong.html

RasTa

Waster wrote: »

Why not have a read of what a qualified ref thinks of the Carragher decisions?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1222963/Graham-Polls-Official-Line-Sorry-Sir-Alex-youre-wrong.html

lol you will be pulling out Jeff Winter quotes next. I'm sure he had something to say.

SlickRic

Carragher did lots of fouling, as did Vidic. both were lucky to only be booked when they were.

decisions did go our way, enjoy it. it doesn't mean we didn't deserve the win.

Waster

nkay1985 wrote: »

United fan here. Just wanted to say congrats to the Liverpool fans here. They were by far the better team today and deserved a win (a one-goal win mind you!).

It's horrible to see how ungracious some United fans on here are. Yes, the ref was inconsisent in his decisions; how Lucas escaped that game without a yellow card will remain a mystery to me. Maybe Carragher should have gone for the tackle on Owen, maybe not. The fact is that he didn't. But all of that is just skirting around the fact that United simply weren't good enough today.

Top post and fairplay to most of the utd fans on here who have been gracious in defeat.

The_Kew_Tour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You were aware of the media circus that had surrounded them the past couple of weeks?

o yes of course but im just sayng really more then anything is that they only got three points nothing else and be going that nuts at this stage season may come back.

stevoslice

adrian280582 wrote: »

o yes of course but im just sayng really more then anything is that they only got three points nothing else and be going that nuts at this stage season may come back.

to say that fixture was only worth 3 points is a complete understatement.

it was win or bust for pool really, and ok other clubs fans may have a little giggle, but this result has reinvigorated our season, as i've said before, spurs, villa and sunderland are all capable of taking points of the big 4 this year, as proved already by villa and sunderland (twice each). the situation should be a lot clearer come january time.

anplaya

thebhoy wrote: »

i was watching the game and those stats are a pretty good reflection to be honest, what reason would the guardian have to print made up stats!!!

didnt say they made em up,just that they dont seem right.as i said sky sports had totally different stats and they didnt seem right either.a couple of other posters have pointed out a few stats werent right either.

Bandit12

thebhoy wrote: »

to say that fixture was only worth 3 points is a complete understatement.

it was win or bust for pool really, and ok other clubs fans may have a little giggle, but this result has reinvigorated our season, as i've said before, spurs, villa and sunderland are all capable of taking points of the big 4 this year, as proved already by villa and sunderland (twice each). the situation should be a lot clearer come january time.

Agreed. Tbh i take heart from the fact we have such a dire start to the season and yet we are only six points of the pace. If the owners back the manager in the January window with a top class striker back up for Nando and we are still in and around 6 points behind i'll be very happy indeed.

stevoslice

Bandit12 wrote: »

Agreed. Tbh i take heart from the fact we have such a dire start to the season and yet we are only six points of the pace. If the owners back the manager in the January window with a top class striker back up for Nando and we are still in and around 6 points behind i'll be very happy indeed.

i think we'll be a lot closer than 6 points by then, the way its looking, the league may be decided by whats happening in a whole other continent early next year...;)

Aidric

thebhoy wrote: »

this result has reinvigorated our season

It's more than a little early to be making such statements as that.