Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

bUILDERtHEbOB

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Reina

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Johnson*---Carra

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Agger---Aurelio

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Mascherano---Lucas

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Kuyt

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Gerrard*

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Benayoun

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Torres*

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Lucas to get a hat trick and be booed off.

No idea what's going to happen tbh.

SlickRic

can't call it.

all logic says a score draw is the best Liverpool can hope for.

but when do these games ever go according to logic?

sticking the neck out for a 1-1 draw.

torres (if he starts) with the 1st, and berbatov with the equaliser.

i'm unusually confident that this will be a very good game too. i don't even know why.

Glico Man

Probably cos we have to win, to save our pride at least. Which should pretty much make it an end to end game.

Just hope we can field a half decent team...with Aquaman on the bench, just to give the fans a lift

The Rooster

Liverpool were totally dominant in central midfield last year in both games, but that's not going to happen this year. Not that United have totally solved their problem there, they are still inconsistent and Ferguson chops and changes as he's a lot of players around the same level.

Both teams have been pretty pants this year, but unlike Liverpool, United have had 2 very good displays and are more solid in defence so eeking out more results. I can't see United not scoring 2 goals, and I'd be shocked if they don't get at least one from a set piece.

If Torres is fit, then they have a chance of outscoring United

Tom65

The Muppet wrote: »

Is Fletcher out?

I think we'll play 4 5 1. with Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson ,Valencia and giggs the preferred choice in midfield.

The Irish Times says Fletcher and Rooney are doubts.


I'd be worried without them.

Headshot

On the injury front I can't give a clear picture, there are still some doubts about Rooney and Fletcher," Ferguson told the club's official website.

"He (Rooney) is always desperate to play, that's the nature of the boy. Of course, you can't let that cloud the realistic side of things. It's going to be important how he does in training on Saturday.

"We'll see if Wayne does train on Saturday and then we'll have a better idea."

"Patrice is fit, and Ryan is also fine, but Ji-sung is out unfortunately. Everyone is fit from after Wednesday's game in Moscow."



they'll make it, id be confident of that

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

they'll make it, im confident of that

rooney will give his right testicle to play in this game, unfortunately.

fletcher out would be a huge coup for us.

it'll be a similar story with Gerrard, Johnson and Torres i'd imagine...we'll see how they train Saturday and decide.

i don't need to explain how much of a loss any one, or God forbid two of those would be.

flahavaj

I'm absolutely convinced liverpool will pull off the win here, much as it pains me to say it.

Every time Rafas really been under serious pressure, hes dragged a performance out of his side, whether it be last gasp qualification out of a CL group, or the immense performance against Madrid the day the bookies stopped taking bets on him leaving the club.

I have grave concerns about United, despte their decent run of results this year. At CB they look very dodgy, Ferdinand making awful errors, but more worryingly Vidic looks a shadow of the player he was since Torres absolutely raped him at Anfield last year. They were passed off the field by Arsenal last month and were blessed to somehow get the win in that game: in truth they're the only really top class side they've played so far.

I'm letting the head rule the heart here, Liverpool to pull off the result and two out of Torres, Gerrard and Johnsen to start. Something ridiculous like a Lucas header or Acquilani off the bench to be the hero.

Just got a terrible bad feeling about this, I don't know why.

SlickRic

flahavaj wrote: »

I'm absolutely convinced liverpool will pull off the win here, much as it pains me to say it.

Every time Rafas really been under serious pressure, hes dragged a performance out of his side, whether it be last gasp qualification out of a CL group, or the immense performance against Madrid the day the bookies stopped taking bets on him leaving the club.

I have grave concerns about United, despte their decent run of results this year. At CB they look very dodgy, Ferdinand making awful errors, but more worryingly Vidic looks a shadow of the player he was since Torres absolutely raped him at Anfield last year. They were passed off the field by Arsenal last month and were blessed to somehow get the win in that game: in truth they're the only really top class side they've played so far.

I'm letting the head rule the heart here, Liverpool to pull off the result and two out of Torres, Gerrard and Johnsen to start. Something ridiculous like a Lucas header or Acquilani off the bench to be the hero.

Just got a terrible bad feeling about this, I don't know why.

i like

Karmafaerie

flahavaj wrote: »

I'm absolutely convinced liverpool will pull off the win here, much as it pains me to say it.

Every time Rafas really been under serious pressure, hes dragged a performance out of his side, whether it be last gasp qualification out of a CL group, or the immense performance against Madrid the day the bookies stopped taking bets on him leaving the club.

I have grave concerns about United, despte their decent run of results this year. At CB they look very dodgy, Ferdinand making awful errors, but more worryingly Vidic looks a shadow of the player he was since Torres absolutely raped him at Old Trafford last year. They were passed off the field by Arsenal last month and were blessed to somehow get the win in that game: in truth they're the only really top class side they've played so far.

I'm letting the head rule the heart here, Liverpool to pull off the result and two out of Torres, Gerrard and Johnsen to start. Something ridiculous like a Lucas header or Acquilani off the bench to be the hero.

Just got a terrible bad feeling about this, I don't know why.

FTFY.

flahavaj

Sound.

Karmafaerie

Hard to guess.
Anyone who thinks it's already decided either way, is fooling themselves.

I see a high paced game with few chances.
Whoever capitalises on them will come out on top.

0-0,1-0,0-1.

This game depends on who plays, if Gerrard Torres Rooney and Fletch are all out I'd say United will win no problem, otherwise it could be dodgy.

The Rooster

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Hard to guess.
0-0,1-0,0-1.

I'd love to think there's that strong a possibility of Liverpool keeping a clean sheet, but I just can't see it.

SlickRic

Deleted User wrote: »

This game depends on who plays, if Gerrard Torres Rooney and Fletch are all out I'd say United will win no problem, otherwise it could be dodgy.

apologies, but this sort of comment just irritates me.

none of these games are ever easy.

even our 4-1 win last year was a struggle.

these games are never a foregone conclusion, no matter how bad the form of either team.

Paul Tergat

Deleted User wrote: »

This game depends on who plays, if Gerrard Torres Rooney and Fletch are all out I'd say United will win no problem, otherwise it could be dodgy.

Not sure how you have come to the conclusion that if Rooney and Fletch are out we will win no problem. Sure, if also Torres and Gerrard are out it'll help us defensively but I think we really need Rooney to play even just to give us a focal point to our attack.

Going to be a real close game i reckon, one goal will decide it. Just hope its in Utd's favour but as has been said far more riding on this for Pool than us.

kida

Pool are so low on confidence, I think fergie will send Utd out to put the pressure on early. If Utd can get an early goal who knows how many they will get as IMO pool heads will drop and they could be there for the taking. Fergie knows this is the best chance he will get of driving a nail deep into pool and I bet hes drooling a the thoughts of them on at the moment when they are low in confidence.

Rooney will play, wild horses wouldn't keep him out of this fixture. I expect Berba to shine. Go 4-4-2 and get at them early, none of this 4-5-1 cagey crap.

Any word on who pool will play as CBs?

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

apologies, but this sort of comment just irritates me.

none of these games are ever easy.

even our 4-1 win last year was a struggle.

these games are never a foregone conclusion, no matter how bad the form of either team.

Yes but without Gerrard and Torres I just think we're the much better side even without Rooney and Fletcher

JP Liz

1 - 0 to United

The Rooster

kida wrote: »

Pool are so low on confidence, I think fergie will send Utd out to put the pressure on early. If Utd can get an early goal who knows how many they will get as IMO pool heads will drop and they could be there for the taking. Fergie knows this is the best chance he will get of driving a nail deep into pool and I bet hes drooling a the thoughts of them on at the moment when they are low in confidence.

Rooney will play, wild horses wouldn't keep him out of this fixture. I expect Berba to shine. Go 4-4-2 and get at them early, none of this 4-5-1 cagey crap.

Any word on who pool will play as CBs?

I think completely the opposite.

Gung-ho from the start is too risky and gives Liverpool the opportunity to make a good start and get the crowd going.

IMO Ferguson will want to ensure Liverpool have nothing to shout about and will be cagey at the start. Two banks of 4, make no mistakes. Let Rooney and one other do what they can up top and then make hay when set piece opportunities come.

SlickRic

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but without Gerrard and Torres I just think we're the much better side even without Rooney and Fletcher

that's not really my point.

1) nothing's ever won on paper.

2) without Rooney and Fletcher you're not a 'much better' side. you'd have the edge on paper, but nothing definitive at all.

for instance, if all those players are out, masch could potentially bully the sh*t out of your midfield. he may not, but he could. just like Carrick or Giggs might pick a pass or two to unlock us.

these games are never, ever predictable.

Karmafaerie

kida wrote: »

Pool are so low on confidence, I think fergie will send Utd out to put the pressure on early. If Utd can get an early goal who knows how many they will get as IMO pool heads will drop and they could be there for the taking. Fergie knows this is the best chance he will get of driving a nail deep into pool and I bet hes drooling a the thoughts of them on at the moment when they are low in confidence.

Rooney will play, wild horses wouldn't keep him out of this fixture. I expect Berba to shine. Go 4-4-2 and get at them early, none of this 4-5-1 cagey crap.

Any word on who pool will play as CBs?

So you're saying that Gerrard will definately play, cause desire means all, and fitness nothing?

I'd imagine Rooney will play, if he's fit.
Not because he loves the club so much that he'll walk through hell.
Rooney in no way cares more about Utd than Gerrard does about Liverpool for instance.

Headshot

did rafa have his press conference today ?

any updates on the injuries ?

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

that's not really my point.

1) nothing's ever won on paper.

2) without Rooney and Fletcher you're not a 'much better' side. you'd have the edge on paper, but nothing definitive at all.

for instance, if all those players are out, masch could potentially bull the sh*t out of your midfield. he may not, but he could. just like Carrick or Giggs might pick a pass or two to unlock us.

these games are never, ever predictable.

I know that, I'm just giving my two cents that's all, I'm not saying it's fact

SlickRic

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that, I'm just giving my two cents that's all, I'm not saying it's fact

i know you were; i was just debating the phrase 'no problem'.

apologies if i came across as aggressive.

i just take exception to these games being deemed in any way easy.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

i know you were; i was just debating the phrase 'no problem'.

apologies if i came across as aggressive.

i just take exception to these games being deemed in any way easy.

fair enough, i take your point:)

Dave!

Enjoy the pleasant atmosphere in this thread, while it lasts

CoachBoone

flahavaj wrote: »

I'm absolutely convinced liverpool will pull off the win here, much as it pains me to say it.

Every time Rafas really been under serious pressure, hes dragged a performance out of his side, whether it be last gasp qualification out of a CL group, or the immense performance against Madrid the day the bookies stopped taking bets on him leaving the club.

I have grave concerns about United, despite their decent run of results this year. At CB they look very dodgy, Ferdinand making awful errors, but more worryingly Vidic looks a shadow of the player he was since Torres absolutely raped him at Anfield last year. They were passed off the field by Arsenal last month and were blessed to somehow get the win in that game: in truth they're the only really top class side they've played so far.

I'm letting the head rule the heart here, Liverpool to pull off the result and two out of Torres, Gerrard and Johnsen to start. Something ridiculous like a Lucas header or Acquilani off the bench to be the hero.

Just got a terrible bad feeling about this, I don't know why.

No you're not. Your doing the complete opposite and your reasoning for it is pretty bad. If Aquilani or Lucas can be heroes, then Rio and Vidic can be rocks, in fact its much more likely to be the latter than the former.

Liverpool being under pressure and having lost their last 3 games does NOT make it more likely they will pull out a result/performance here. It makes it less likely.

The bookies reflect that. It'll be close but being convinced of a Liverpool win is just ridiculous. Im not sayin it cant happen, course it can and especially with the huge home advantage (Id imagine that it taken into account in the bookies also and Liverpool STILL aren't favourites)

JerryHandbag

1-4 would be nice but highly unlikely....but I'm gonna put a few quid on it for the laugh anyway.

In all honesty, havent a clue what will happen, with Rooney doubtful I'm less optimistic. Draw wouldn't be a bad result, I feel Pool will put in a good performance.

flahavaj

Fair point CoachBoone, using the phrase "letting the head rule the heart" isn't that accurate in describing what is really more of a hunch than anything else.

CoachBoone

Yeah I get that but it seems more like you (and other United fans) covering all the bases before the match.

Quandary

Id love a Utd win but wouldnt bet on it. This is probably liverpools biggest match in a long long time given their recent run of results & even more so given the opposition they're facing.

Logic can never apply to a Utd/Pool match.

but in the words of Kevin Keegan "I will luvv it if we beat them"

CoachBoone

Quandary wrote: »

Logic can never apply to a Utd/Pool match.

Quick!!! Someone tell Paddy Power to retract the market!:pac:

flahavaj

LOL, so much for giving a honest opinion.

Why would I be bothered "covering my bases," Coach Boone? How would that make me feel any better if United lose?

Or would you prefer blind pro-united cheerleading no matter what my real opinion is? Because if everyone did that this forum would be intolerable.

CoachBoone

flahavaj wrote: »

LOL, so much for giving a honest opinion.

Why would I be bothered "covering my bases," Coach Boone? How would that make me feel any better if United lose?

Or would you prefer blind pro-united cheerleading no matter what my real opinion is? Because if everyone did that this forum would be intolerable.

No, Id prefer some sort of reasonable thinking in an opinion. Diving to one side or the other in this particular match is silly, it'll be close and everything points to that, but you said you were convinced of a Liverpool win? And then gave spurious reasons such as hunches and magical form contradicting performances.

Im all for honest opinions, I was just giving mine on yours.

Bounty Hunter

I predict a bad football match

Vampireskiss

SlickRic wrote: »

that's not really my point.

1) nothing's ever won on paper.

2) without Rooney and Fletcher you're not a 'much better' side. you'd have the edge on paper, but nothing definitive at all.

for instance, if all those players are out, masch could potentially bully the sh*t out of your midfield. he may not, but he could. just like Carrick or Giggs might pick a pass or two to unlock us.

these games are never, ever predictable.

Mascherano is overated and Flecther is underrated, the reason being one is argentinian and the other is scotish

SlickRic

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Mascherano is overated and Flecther is underrated, the reason being one is argentinian and the other is scotish

that has nothing to do with what i was saying, but since you made the point...

fletcher is underrated, yes. i've stated this on numerous occasions. he's also only fulfilled what promise he had in the last year. he's done so excellently. and people are now starting to rate him pretty highly actually.

masch is about on the money in terms of how people rate him. one of the top 3 DMs in the world, and has been that way for the last 2 years.

one being scottish and one argentinian has f*** all to do with it.

the point of my post was actually to say a multitude of things could happen at the weekend. nothing is a foregone conclusion. masch could fiercely unsettle united, like he has done many teams in the past. much like Giggs or Carrick could unlock us like they have done in the past.

form generally goes out the window is all my point was.

flahavaj

well, now that you'v given your opinion on MY opinion, maybe you'll enlighten us with your own analysis of the match's outcome Coach Boone bai? Sh*t or get off the pot the man says.

CoachBoone

flahavaj wrote:

well, now that you'v given your opinion on MY opinion, maybe you'll enlighten us with your own analysis of the match's outcome Coach Boone bai? Sh*t or get off the pot the man says.

CoachBoone wrote: »

Agree.

Liverpool have a very poor recent run of results, players just back from injury, increased pressure on the manager, senior players and team as a whole.

United have, a good run of form, a clean bill of health and no real pressure only that of pride and of a point to prove after last year.

Home advantage for Liverpool is massive though. As it is for any team.

Anyone fans thinking a Liverpool win is likely are going with their hearts and not their heads.

There it is, from this same thread.

Insect Overlord

I should really be looking forward to this game, but the doubts over Rooney and Fletcher are getting to me. Hoping for a United win, but wouldn't dare try to make a prediction.

Leixlip_Red

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Mascherano is overated and Flecther is underrated, the reason being one is argentinian and the other is scotish

I don't see Barcelona trying to tap up Fletch.... sure they don't know what there at !

mike65

Provsional sqaud news

The Liverpool manager Rafael Benítez will give his injured trio of Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres and Glen Johnson every chance to prove their fitness ahead of Sunday's Premier League match against Manchester United.

Gerrard is the biggest concern of those suffering from groin injuries, but he received treatment today, and that will continue right up until the match at Anfield.

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Aurélio, Insúa, Mascherano, Babel, Lucas, Kuyt, Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres, Voronin, Ngog, Spearing, Plessis, Dossena, Cavalieri

No Kelly, Riera or Greek Guy

ShooterSF

Leixlip_Red wrote: »

I don't see Barcelona trying to tap up Fletch.... sure they don't know what there at !

Without intent to compare the guys here but that's too simple an explanation. Masch is S. American and speaks fluent Spanish. Also players from those regions tend to have a desire to play in warmer climates and can have their head turned by big Spanish clubs even if they're at a big english one.
Fletcher's spanish is probably not up to the same standard and I'd imagine growing up in Britain sees United as the bigger club, unlike Mascherano, and so is less likely to be tempted to demand a transfer because Barca were sniffing around...

Vampireskiss

Leixlip_Red wrote: »

I don't see Barcelona trying to tap up Fletch.... sure they don't know what there at !

Aren't they after Robinho too?so in that case they probably don't

Vampireskiss

Mascherano is a poor mans Makelele, he is good defensively I will admit that but his distribution of the ball is quite poor. Anyway midfielders of that type are a waste in my opinion. Someone like Essien who is an all rounder and actually being limited at chelsea is someone I would love at united.

I am not trying to make this a united v pool debate, I believe carrick is a poor mans Alonso but I suppose I dont mind admiting that now because he doesnt play for liverpool anymore:)

Pro. F

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Mascherano is a poor mans Makelele, he is good defensively I will admit that but his distribution of the ball is quite poor. Anyway midfielders of that type are a waste in my opinion. Someone like Essien who is an all rounder and actually being limited at chelsea is someone I would love at united.

I am not trying to make this a united v pool debate, I believe carrick is a poor mans Alonso but I suppose I dont mind admiting that now because he doesnt play for liverpool anymore:)

...eh...? You know that you can actually do that in this thread, right?...
It's political correctness gone mad!

I can't bring myself to feel confident about this one. If Rooney starts and Fletch starts (or is on the bench and fit for cover for Scholes) come Sunday i'll maybe start to feel a little confident but probably not.

kryogen

has anyone got a line on the over or under for amount of posters banned by Monday morning??

i fancy a flutter

The Muppet

kryogen wrote: »

has anyone got a line on the over or under for amount of posters banned by Monday morning??

i fancy a flutter

Once there are no contentious issues in the match all will be well,





What's the odd's on that happening?


Can't see Gerrard playing, not exactly an occasion to risk such an important player with a dodgy groin, A strong tackle could put him out for weeks. I expect to see Torres, unfortunately.

jesus_thats_gre

CoachBoone wrote: »

No you're not. Your doing the complete opposite and your reasoning for it is pretty bad. If Aquilani or Lucas can be heroes, then Rio and Vidic can be rocks, in fact its much more likely to be the latter than the former.

Liverpool being under pressure and having lost their last 3 games does NOT make it more likely they will pull out a result/performance here. It makes it less likely.

The bookies reflect that. It'll be close but being convinced of a Liverpool win is just ridiculous. Im not sayin it cant happen, course it can and especially with the huge home advantage (Id imagine that it taken into account in the bookies also and Liverpool STILL aren't favourites)

I think the point he might be trying to make can be summed up like this.

Compare the odds of tomorrow's match in isolation against the probability of one of the big 4 losing 5 games in a row.

I haven't worked out the maths but I reckon the odds of a 5th defeat in a row is quite low.