Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

stevoslice

Aidric wrote: »

It's more than a little early to be making such statements as that.

am, if we lost we would be 10 points behind, at the moment, its only six, the attitude/outlook towards the rest of the season has changed for the better.

Mr Alan

Aidric wrote: »

It's more than a little early to be making such statements as that.

in the same way it was a little early to write Liverpool off for the season before yesterdays game.

Anthony16

Ok,im new to the soccer forum nad,as a big united fan id like to give my views on yesterdays game(ill b as unbiased as possible)
Firstly,i feel that lpool were by far the better team and dominated from start to finish.They deserved the win without a doubt.However,despite what most people think,ibelieve that vidic was very good yesterday.If u watch the game again,ul see the amount of clearances and headers he made and how ferdinand and himself kept torres quiet for long periods.Ok,vida made a nice few fouls but so did carragher and every1 wz singing the latters praises.
A lot of people have been saying that anderson should have played but that is another incorrect assumption,imo.The reason fergie didnt play him is because he gives away too many cheap frees in dangerous areas,and against the top clubs,he cant be risked.
I thought carraghers challenge on his former good friend wz absolutely disgraceful.Owen outfoxed and outpaced him and it should have been a red,no doubt.Liverpool got all the decisions aswell and that didnt help us one bit.
Fletcher wz sorely missed by united as,without him we lack an agressive midfielder.Luckily,hargreaves is on the mend and will hopefully be back by march,or so.
Something to woryy about for united fans is the manner in which rio was outpaced and outmuscled by torres." 2 years ago i remember rio doing that to him and i think he may have lost a yard of pace through all his injuries.
Also,john o shea gives nothing going forward and rafael or wes brown shold be in ahead of him,no doubt

Anthony16

Mr Alan wrote: »

in the same way it was a little early to write Liverpool off for the season before yesterdays game.

Honestly,liverpool are out of the title race

Mr Alan

Anthony16 wrote: »

Honestly,liverpool are out of the title race

honestly, they're not.

stevoslice

Mr Alan wrote: »

honestly, they're not.

beat me to it... lol

Glico Man

Anthony16 wrote: »

Honestly,liverpool are out of the title race

How can a team be out of the title race only 10 games into the season? It is still mathematically possible for all teams in the league to win (obviously only the top 5/6 actually have a shout)

It is clear to me as well as others that the league is going to be a lot tighter and tougher to win this year, as its possible for the bottom half teams to take points off the top teams, as well as the emergence of Spurs, Villa, City and Sunderland who have all spent big to try and get involved in the top places.

The title picture will be far clearer in January and February

Anthony16

aaronh007 wrote: »

How can a team be out of the title race only 10 games into the season? It is still mathematically possible for all teams in the league to win (obviously only the top 5/6 actually have a shout)

It is clear to me as well as others that the league is going to be a lot tighter and tougher to win this year, as its possible for the bottom half teams to take points off the top teams, as well as the emergence of Spurs, Villa, City and Sunderland who have all spent big to try and get involved in the top places.

The title picture will be far clearer in January and February

The reason they can be out of it already is because they have lost 4 games already.Liverpool are bound to lose at least another 3 come the end of the season.Liverpool will drop points against the smaller teams also.Plus,the fact that they have no back up for gerrard or torres.Ngog is poor stuff and benayoun can be handled

Mr Alan

Benayoun couldn't be "handled" yesterday.

SlickRic

Anthony16 wrote: »

The reason they can be out of it already is because they have lost 4 games already.Liverpool are bound to lose at least another 3 come the end of the season.Liverpool will drop points against the smaller teams also.Plus,the fact that they have no back up for gerrard or torres.Ngog is poor stuff and benayoun can be handled

awesome.

we'll give up now so.

this will be the most topsy turvy league for a while i reckon. chelsea look like the only team really capable of going on a run right now, such is the strength of their squad.

so many teams can beat the 'top 4'; it's more plausible than any other year that that monopoly will be broken. this year could be the lowest winning total for quite some time such is the depth of the league.

liverpool are in a tough spot, but it's nothing that a run (which we are more than capable of; see last season) wouldn't fix.

n'gog poor? he's young and he's been nothing short of excellent in his role so far this year.

benny easily handled? ask utd yesterday, and most teams he's been up against this year.

back up for torres? yes, we need it. or at least a different way to play when he's not there. gerrard can be covered by benny (again, see yesterday).

it's premature to write us off, obviously, but we do need to improve our use of the ball. yesterday was a huge improvement on the previous few games in that respect, but it needs to continue, and possibly improve.

Liam O

Mr Alan wrote: »

Benayoun couldn't be "handled" yesterday.

as much as I hate to admit it, you're right. He was fantastic yesterday.

Valencia had Insua's number yesterday. I was really annoyed that he didn't exploit his clear advantage in skill and pace and instead backpassed a lot. He was very unlucky not to score too.

Haven't read through the thread and I'm sure it's been discussed to death but Carragher should've been sent off...

Liam O

SlickRic wrote: »

chelsea look like the only team really capable of going on a run right now, such is the strength of their squad.

Chelsea haven't exactly been the model of consistency so far, however with Joe Cole back they do look menacing. I think they'll fall off a bit in January/February.

SlickRic

Liam O wrote: »

I think they'll fall off a bit in January/February.

i do keep forgetting about the African Nations.

Headshot

SlickRic wrote: »

i do keep forgetting about the African Nations.

doesnt matter imo

chelsea will delay that transfer banning and they'll be buying big in jan i think

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

chelsea will delay that transfer banning and they'll be buying big in jan i think

well yes, if that happens, then it will be an uphill task for everyone i reckon.

therecklessone

Just like we say "attack the post, not the poster" can we all please engage with what a poster may say and now how they say it.

There is no need to comment on how new anyone is, it is not helpful in any way.

eZe^

Torres' goal was absolutely fantastic by the way. I love roof of the net finishes like that. Definitely the best striker in England at the moment.

stevoslice

Anthony16 wrote: »

Ngog is poor stuff and benayoun can be handled

as a matter of interest, what is N'gogs goals per min ratio again, something like 9 goals in 500 mins of football for Liverpool, not 100% on that though. think it was posted somewhere last week.

hardly the sign of a poor player tbh.

SlickRic

eZe^ wrote: »

Torres' goal was absolutely fantastic by the way. I love roof of the net finishes like that. Definitely the best striker in England at the moment.

at 80% with an abductor muscle injury which he needed an injection for too.

it can't be underestimated how big a performance that was from him yesterday.

mike65

I'm surprised there has been nothing about him suffering a reaction. Fingers crossed

smoochie06

Just turned on SS news and Dermot Gallagher was on. He said that Marriner got the Carragher decision right with a yellow card the same with Vidic and Mascherano was right to go too. He also said that Marriner just about got it right for Carraghers tackle against Carrick.

I missed the start of the interview so not sure what else i missed.
Im sure it will be on again.

SlickRic

smoochie06 wrote: »

Just turned on SS news and Dermot Gallagher was on. He said that Marriner got the Carragher decision right with a yellow card the same with Vidic and Mascherano was right to go too. He also said that Marriner just about got it right for Carraghers tackle against Carrick.

I missed the start of the interview so not sure what else i missed.
Im sure it will be on again.

Marriner's biggest problem, was that he didn't take control early enough with the main offenders; by booking them or whatever. Lucas, Carra and Vidic were getting away with consistent fouling for too long.

and it was made all the stranger by the fact Evra was booked for 2 fouls.

about the Carra decision, he was consistent. he didn't give Vidic a straight red either. but the argument could be Carra should've been booked previous to the incident.

ah well, Liverpool deserved the win. and we got the right end of certain decisions to help ensure we didn't lose what we thoroughly deserved.

Anthony16

Mr Alan wrote: »

Benayoun couldn't be "handled" yesterday.

Yeah well what do you expect when scholes ,carrick and giggs are in the midfield.They couldnt put a foot in(scholes possibly an exception).Smaller teams will have players like diao for stoke whose only purpose is to be a spoiler

Anthony16

thebhoy wrote: »

as a matter of interest, what is N'gogs goals per min ratio again, something like 9 goals in 500 mins of football for Liverpool, not 100% on that though. think it was posted somewhere last week.

hardly the sign of a poor player tbh.

Are you telling me he will get 10-12 league goals this season?not a chance:P

Mr Alan

you've listed pretty much the first choice midfield for the current premier league champions. incl. premier league player of the year Ryan Giggs. possibly the greatest midfielder in the PLs history-someone who a lot of Utd fans, still think is among the best around. and Carrick, who some Utd fans have raved about for a couple of years & claim he is criminally under-rated. if they cant handle him, i don't think there is many who can.

SlickRic

Anthony16 wrote: »

Are you telling me he will get 10-12 league goals this season?not a chance:P

if Rafa gives him enough games, he will get 10 goals. he has two from barely an hour of PL football this year.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

you've listed pretty much the first choice midfield for the current premier league champions. incl. premier league player of the year Ryan Giggs. possibly the greatest midfielder in the PLs history-someone who a lot of Utd fans, still think is among the best around. and Carrick, who some Utd fans have raved about for a couple of years & claim he is criminally under-rated. if they cant handle him, i don't think there is many who can.

fyp

Alan there ya go with those sweeping statements again

PHB

Also utterly ignoring that different midfielders play different roles.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Also utterly ignoring that different midfielders play different roles.

yea i ignored that oversight

stevoslice

Anthony16 wrote: »

Are you telling me he will get 10-12 league goals this season?not a chance:P

1st: no i'm telling you that he's been pretty prolific for us so far given his playing time, and that he is hardly a poor player.

2nd: what SlickrRc said

rossie1977

Headshot wrote: »

fyp

Alan there ya go with those sweeping statements again

sorry man had to be done

Headshot wrote:

carrick is a brilliant player,eye for a goal,good intercepter ,brilliant passer, so i would vote carrick

http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59243105&postcount=44

if you read that whole thread, carrick is better than both alonso and masch according to most utd fans, don't feel bad though, city fans on here were claiming richard dunne best defender in the league around the same time

Theresalwaysone

Headshot you are highly strung today arent you?

The_Kew_Tour

eZe^ wrote: »

Torres' goal was absolutely fantastic by the way. I love roof of the net finishes like that. Definitely the best striker in England at the moment.

As a United fan hate say it but think he best in the world at finishing the ball in net. For me he is best I have seen in quite some time.

Headshot

rossie1977 wrote: »

sorry man had to be done

http://www.face.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59243105&postcount=44

if you read that whole thread, carrick is better than both alonso and masch according to most utd fans, don't feel bad though, city fans on here were claiming richard dunne best defender in the league around the same time

ya i wasnt referring to myself about alan sweeping statement, alot of utd fans are very divided about carrick

he's a good player carrick and on his day he is a brilliant player but that tends to be against weak teams that let utd play.

btw rossie1977 you have too much time on your hands

Headshot you are highly strung today arent you?

what ya mean mate ?

Anthony16

Mr Alan wrote: »

you've listed pretty much the first choice midfield for the current premier league champions. incl. premier league player of the year Ryan Giggs. possibly the greatest midfielder in the PLs history-someone who a lot of Utd fans, still think is among the best around. and Carrick, who some Utd fans have raved about for a couple of years & claim he is criminally under-rated. if they cant handle him, i don't think there is many who can.

No,i wouldn say its the 1st choicemidfield as fergie rotates a lot.Different horses for different courses,as the saying goes.Yes,giggs and carrick are very good on the ball but defensively,they are not great.If fletcher wz there,i dont think he would have had anything near the same influence.i think u misread my statement

MementoMori

thebhoy wrote: »

as a matter of interest, what is N'gogs goals per min ratio again, something like 9 goals in 500 mins of football for Liverpool, not 100% on that though. think it was posted somewhere last week.

hardly the sign of a poor player tbh.

N'gog's record in competitive games for Liverpool so far is 6 goals in 797 mins play (just under 9 full games total) an average of a goal every 132 mins on the pitch, which is pretty decent going.

Last season he scored 3 goals in 589 mins (just over 6 and a half full games) in 19 appearances. A goal every 196 mins.

This season he has scored 3 goals in 208 mins (2 and a bit full games) in 6 appearances. A goal every 70 mins.

There's also the fact that I think he has scored in pretty much every reserve game he has played this season.

While I don't think he's by any means the finished article, he is only 20 years old, and he is developing extremely well and looks like a serious bargain at £1.5m. Personally I don't think he's quite up to playing the lone striker role at senior level yet (although he seems to be able to manage it quite well at reserve level) and I would prefer to see him played alongside another striker.
Overall he seems to have all of the attributes necessary to develop into a top-level striker and I think it's just a matter of time before this happens.

Also I wouldn't be massively surprised if he ended up out-scoring Michael Owen over the course of the season, depending on how much time each of them gets on the pitch.

Headshot

talking about N'gog

he has built up the body strength alot hasnt he, hard to bully him off the ball i think

MementoMori

Headshot wrote: »

talking about N'gog

he has built up the body strength alot hasnt he, hard to bully him off the ball i think

I think it has been especially noticeable over the summer break.

He's come a long was since he initially arrived, when he definately didn't look up to the physical challenge of English football.

Don't know if that's due to work in the gym or simply physical development given his age. Probably a combo of both.

curry-muff

Jesus Ngog scores a chance that very few would miss and suddenly people want his babies after bashing him for the last few months, its not good to see that peoples opinions can change at the drop of a coin, i know i might be biased but i dont see Ngog as a good player, at all :rolleyes:

SlickRic

Headshot wrote: »

talking about N'gog

he has built up the body strength alot hasnt he, hard to bully him off the ball i think

absolutely.

this is what particularly impressed me in the game against lyon about him.

young guy, against an experienced pro like Cris at the back, and he more than held his own, often holding off 2 defenders at a time with little or no support.

very promising, and i'll be honest, i wasn't that optimistic when i first saw him a couple of years ago. i certainly am now.

Eire-Dearg

He caught my eye back when we played Leeds. Straight away his added strenght was noticeable, and he held up the ball extremely well. Scored a good goal that night too.

He's really beefed himself up, and his ability to hold up the ball is brilliant. He's reminding me alot of Carlton Cole, who has really developed the past year or two. This lad has a bright future, if not at Liverpool but at a different club.

SlickRic

curry-muff wrote: »

Jesus Ngog scores a chance that very few would miss and suddenly people want his babies after bashing him for the last few months, its not good to see that peoples opinions can change at the drop of a coin, i know i might be biased but i dont see Ngog as a good player, at all :rolleyes:

the lyon game.

as well as the countless standout reserve run-outs he's had suggest otherwise.

he's only 20. only the very special make it at a top club much younger than that, especially forward players.

MementoMori

curry-muff wrote: »

Jesus Ngog scores a chance that very few would miss and suddenly people want his babies after bashing him for the last few months, its not good to see that peoples opinions can change at the drop of a coin, i know i might be biased but i dont see Ngog as a good player, at all :rolleyes:

Well I've been a fan of N'gog pretty much since he joined.

Now the search function is back maybe you can point out who are those whose opinion has changed from bashing him to wanting to have his babies are.

I love the bit about how it was a chance very few would miss.
Is Van der Saar really that bad at one-on-ones?

The_Kew_Tour

It looks like this really could be decent title race this year no team so far has looked like they could take league by scruff of neck just yet

curry-muff

MementoMori wrote: »

Well I've been a fan of N'gog pretty much since he joined.

Now the search function is back maybe you can point out who are those whose opinion has changed from bashing him to wanting to have his babies are.

I love the bit about how it was a chance very few would miss.
Is Van der Saar really that bad at one-on-ones?

Its not that Van Der Sar is bad its the fact Ngog had about 20 seconds to pick his spot.

SlickRic

curry-muff wrote: »

Its not that Van Der Sar is bad its the fact Ngog had about 20 seconds to pick his spot.

or cr*p himself.

he didn't, so you can't possibly take anything away from the finish. it still needed some calm.

'he had 20 seconds to pick his spot' could also mean 'he had 20 minutes to over-think it'.

cool, compose finish from the young man.

plus he probably sensed Reina breathing down his neck. :cool:

Mr.Nice Guy

I think N'Gog is average at best.

Sir Gallagher

Jaysus lads you'd swear Liverpool fans are claiming N'Gog as the new Henry, the lad is getting some unfair criticism for reasons which are beyond his control. It's not his fault he's second choice striker at Liverpool, thats just the way it is, i wouldn't mind his goals to minutes ratio is pretty decent. It's hardly the type of reaction that a lot of united fans gave when Macheda had his moment last year.

All the top clubs have young strikers with lots of potential,

Arsenal- Vela
United- Wellbeck
United- Macheda
Chelsea- Di Santo(doing well at Blackburn on loan)
Liverpool- N'Gog
Liverpool- Nemeth (doing well at Athens on loan)

each player there has potential, some may flourish some may not, they cant all be Rooneys, Cescs, Messis and Gerrards it just doesn't work like that. Most young players need time and experience.With N'Gog he's a 20 year old lad playing second fiddle to one of the best strikers in the world at one of the biggest clubs in the world and he's handling it fairly well if you ask me.

yom 1

Ngog is showing great promise alright and took his goal very well.

Torres' goal was a thing of beauty, but the one image I loved most from the match was the sight of Reina sprinting the full length of the pitch. Absolute Legend!!!:P


Edit: Just noticed my 1000th post is the 1000th post on this thread.........couldnt think of a better way to celebrate it!!!

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

so many teams can beat the 'top 4'; it's more plausible than any other year that that monopoly will be broken. this year could be the lowest winning total for quite some time such is the depth of the league.

I don't know about this, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man United all have more points than they did at this stage last year. This would suggest a higher points total will win the league.