Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

The_Kew_Tour

I think this might be the kick in the back side United needed. They have been getting away with few average performances this season but on Sunday they got there reward for been laid back and thinking they were better then Liverpool

mike65

Rob Smyth in the Guardian had a blog article about Utd - he called it (rather OTT) the most cowardly performance by Fergerson in 23 years. It was pointed out to him that Barca CL final was probably worse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/oct/26/manchester-united-liverpool-premier-league

whatawaster

ntlbell wrote: »

you didn't watch the 2-1 defeat at anfield then.

outplayed?

you got lucky, and needed an OG to clinch it.

short memory?

yes i did

Yes outplayed.

An OG was the first goal, we had numerous chances, completely outplayed you and were without our only two good players.

No, the memory's fine.

mike65

I's say this result and performance was the best of the last 3.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

you didn't watch the 2-1 defeat at anfield then.

outplayed?

you got lucky, and needed an OG to clinch it.

short memory?

didn't Babel clinch it?

mike65

If I remember the ball rebounded off a Utd player (VDS?) and fell straight to Babel who tapped it in.

Nope I'm wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OzFuKJb2c0

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

you didn't watch the 2-1 defeat at anfield then.

outplayed?

you got lucky, and needed an OG to clinch it.

short memory?

mike phelan wrote:

We were only in the game for seven or eight minutes and after that we did not perform.

They bossed us out of the game and their tactics worked as they put us under pressure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/7601885.stm

SlickRic

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

But gloating, especially given the fact that Liverpool won nothing last season, and are desperately trying to keep in touch with Chelsea and United at the top this season. You are in no position to gloat.

nobody's gloating.

you people seem to just be making stuff up now to try and support some notion that Liverpool fans are being poor winners.

liverpool won, playing well. there's still a way to go to be serious contenders in the leagueagain such was our bad form before the game. you'll find very few fans saying otherwise.

unless the above is gloating and/or untrue?

and there's a difference between being happy with the performance of your team and gloating.

Anthony16

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I don't personally. I got pissed off when I was watching the game, and then for a short while afterwards. Then I got over it, we have Blackburn next weekend and if we win that one we are still in good shape as far as the league is concerned.

As I said to all of the Liverpool fans I've met... "Well done on the victory, fully deserved. It was always going to be a Liverpool win, with them going so badly before it. They were up for it and United weren't. Hopefully it will give a few of the United players a good kick up the arse. They need it."

But gloating, especially given the fact that Liverpool won nothing last season, and are desperately trying to keep in touch with Chelsea and United at the top this season. You are in no position to gloat.

I dont think they won anything the year before either.Cant believe rafa is still in the job but he always pulls out big results wen hes up against it.I wz gettin worried that hed be sacked cos he does such foolish things and lost the plot last year,to hand us the title.Well done rafa,the best thing to happen to utd in years is you:pac:

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Barcelona at home in CL two years ago



get over yourselves. Barcelona at home in the CL two years ago. 11 men behind the ball for most of the game. Hardly anything created. Goal from long range.



What about Barcelona at home in the CL two years ago?

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

Liverpool found out how to beat united, basically get stuck in to the midfielders who are used to time and space and put pressure on the dodgy central defenders.


Btw name the 7 defenders.

Boggles

rarnes1 wrote: »

Liverpool found out how to beat united, basically get stuck in to the midfielders who are used to time and space and put pressure on the dodgy central defenders.

Laughable

rarnes1 wrote: »

Btw name the 7 defenders.

Can you not name them yourself?

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Laughable



Can you not name them yourself?

Ferdinand is dodgy this season without question.

Vidic can't handle Torres.

No, I can't.

Pro. F

whatawaster wrote: »

you said we have Torres and we have Rooney and Berbatov up front and implied that it meant you had more depth of quality up front. i was just pointing out that really in the systems Pool and United play:



Gerrard is the equivalent of Rooney and is imo better
Torres is the equivalent of Berbatov and is imo better

I think we have the stronger starters.
You have Owen, Wellbeck and Macheda as backup.
We have N'Gog and Voronin (as well as Kuyt and Babel) as backup.
I concede that your backup is slightly better, but not hugely.

Just to clear this up. I did not imply we have more depth of quality up front. I was responding to Bayviewclose banging on about how good Torres is. I responded by saying we have a better squad and i also said that i'm happy with Berbatov and Rooney. The two points were clearly seperrated in my post.

Pro. F wrote: »

You have Torres, we have some actual depth in our squad. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with Rooney and Berbatov, both are quality strikers.

Boggles

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ferdinand is dodgy this season without question.

Few bad games doesn't make you a bad player.

Well not any other club.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Vidic can't handle Torres.

Didn't get a split second off him Sunday, so much so I recorded 6 Torres dives in the first half.

Dublin_Gunner

Boggles wrote: »

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

Yeah, pretty good those 7 defenders, they won 2-0.

BTW - I count 5 defenders (including Reina).

Pro. F

Boggles wrote: »

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

To say that Fergie didn't set out the team to be ultra defensive in both legs of that semi against Barca is total fantasy. It doesn't matter who the players were it matters how they played and what orders they were given.

And anyway, since when did our club traditions become about playing positive football* only at home?


*which before anyone says the usual counter criticism of 'oh that's stupidly risky', positive football doesn't automatically mean gung ho attack.

The Recliner

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Yeah, pretty good those 7 defenders, they won 2-0.

BTW - I count 5 defenders (including Reina).

I think Boggles is including Masch and Lucas as defenders which lets face it is Bollocks of the highest order

Being a defensive midfielder does not a defender make and Lucas is not a defensive midfielder anyway

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

Didn't get a split second off him Sunday, so much so I recorded 6 Torres dives in the first half.

if by a moment's rest you mean 75% of the time kicking him.

vidic generally did what he had to do well though, he wasn't really the problem, so i vote we don't get into this.

just because we had 7 players who can defend does not mean they were simply there to defend.

but sure you know that.

rossie1977

Boggles wrote: »

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

sure why not say liverpool played with 8 defenders, kuyt is a much a defender as lucas or masch were utd playing with 6 defenders all those years when keane and ince were together??

fact is liverpool were FORCED to play that team, 3 first teamers were injured and babel just hasn't been good enough to deserve a starting place

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Laughable



Can you not name them yourself?

I assume you are correcting him by saying that dodgy isn't the word for your defenders, and that they are actually laughable?

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Few bad games doesn't make you a bad player.

Well not any other club.



Didn't get a split second off him Sunday, so much so I recorded 6 Torres dives in the first half.

You recorded it? Cool throw it up to youtube there.

gucci

Sure everyone knows Carragher is a midfielder, he is just filling in at centre half the last 8 or 9 years.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Would you like to list the lineup that night and compare it to Liverpools on Sunday. Regardless of how the match turned out against Barca, we did not lineup with 7 defenders like the Scouse did, United at home, whatever the opposition, would never do this, it's not their way.

It doesn’t matter how many defenders you lined up with. You went out that night with the sole purpose of keeping things tight, sitting back and nicking a goal. And I contrasted it to how Liverpool approached similar games against Barca and Real in the CL.
Not saying that Liverpool are a more offensive team than United. Merely pointing out how ridiculous you sound bleating on about “the United way of playing” when it just doesn’t hold up.

Isn’t it funny how when Liverpool are playing it’s “two holding midfielders,” but Carrick and Scholes are just two normal central midfielder.
This despite the fact that Mascherano probably got forward and had more (wayward) attempts at goal than anyone else and Lucas was constantly getting forward and into the United box.

Boggles wrote: »

Didn't get a split second off him Sunday, so much so I recorded 6 Torres dives in the first half.

nonsense. Please recount them for us.

Pro. F

Regardless of who was on the pitch, Liverpool didn't play very attacking on Sunday. The fullbacks didn't push forward and neither of the centre-mids looked like they had been given licence to get ahead of the play much. Most of the pool attacks revolved around getting the ball to the front players as directly as possible and letting them get on with it.

Edit: This isn't to say United were more attacking. It was hard to say exactly what our gameplan was tbh. I presume it wasn't to fire so many long balls at our strikers.

Mr Alan

clubs are more conservative when they play top clubs. tis a fact & fergie does it as much as anyone.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Regardless of who was on the pitch, Liverpool didn't play very attacking on Sunday. The fullbacks didn't push forward and neither of the centre-mids looked like they had been given licence to get ahead of the play much. Most of the pool attacks revolved around getting the ball to the front players as directly as possible and letting them get on with it.

Edit: This isn't to say United were more attacking. It was hard to say exactly what our gameplan was tbh. I presume it wasn't to fire so many long balls at our strikers.

Basically Benitez got his tactics spot on on Sunday.

Dublin_Gunner

rarnes1 wrote: »

Basically Benitez got his tactics spot on on Sunday.

Unfortunately I disagree.

I actually now believe it takes a team of the stature and rivalry of United to make Liverpool play as well as they did.

And its disappointing to say the least, that it requires another team to get ourselves 'up for it' enough to actually play good football. We can do it against, United, Chelsea, Real Madrid (for some reason not Arsenal though!) etc etc but struggle against Sunderland, Bolton, etc etc

Mr Alan

your point is kind of ruinned by the fact that we've already hammered Hull, Burnley & Stoke this season.

Dublin_Gunner

Mr Alan wrote: »

your point is kind of ruinned by the fact that we've already hammered Hull, Burnley & Stoke this season.

Its the inconsistency though.

Look at last season too. Just because we put a few goals past a couple of the worst teams in the prem doesn't ruin my point.

I take your Hull, Burnley & Stoke, and raise you Spurs, Villa & Sunderland.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

clubs are more conservative when they play top clubs. tis a fact & fergie does it as much as anyone.

Sort of true what you say about all top clubs these days but not always the case. This year, for example, against City United went out to play attacking imo (regardless of who scored when).

It's not that long since the classic era, from my perspective, of United Arsenal games - both teams playing very adventurous football. I think sometimes that's still the case in that fixture.

United Liverpool games have been cagey affairs on both sides for ages now. Mores the pity.

Mr Alan

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Its the inconsistency though.

Look at last season too. Just because we put a few goals past a couple of the worst teams in the prem doesn't ruin my point.

I take your Hull, Burnley & Stoke, and raise you Spurs, Villa & Sunderland.

just didn't play well in those games. it happens. doesnt meant the team is unable to motivate itself.

Pro. F wrote: »

Sort of true what you say about all top clubs these days but not always the case. This year, for example, against City United went out to play attacking imo (regardless of who scored when).

?!?! lol

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

Basically Benitez got his tactics spot on on Sunday.

I was clearly talking about whether Liverpool played attacking or not. Nothing to do with whether or not Benitez's tactics were the best.

Dublin_Gunner

Mr Alan wrote: »

just didn't play well in those games. it happens. doesnt meant the team is unable to motivate itself.

Come on, thats BS and you know it. How can a team play so well against United, and capitulate to Villa, Sunderland & Spurs?

Had Liverpool been as motivated against those teams, they would not have lost. Fact was, they weren't up for it, and thats why they played so crap.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

?!?! lol

ah fùck, ...i mean - small club, small mentality, new money chumps

Mr Alan

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Come on, thats BS and you know it. How can a team play so well against United, and capitulate to Villa, Sunderland & Spurs?

Had Liverpool been as motivated against those teams, they would not have lost. Fact was, they weren't up for it, and thats why they played so crap.

perhaps, it was more the statement you made that they could only do it against big teams, & that this was permanently a problem that i took exception to.

Anthony16

The Recliner wrote: »

I think Boggles is including Masch and Lucas as defenders which lets face it is Bollocks of the highest order

Being a defensive midfielder does not a defender make and Lucas is not a defensive midfielder anyway

What is lucas so?hes hardly a brazilian:pac:

SlickRic

Anthony16 wrote: »

What is lucas so?hes hardly a brazilian:pac:

i'd pick a different week to take the p*ss out of lucas.

Anthony16

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd pick a different week to take the p*ss out of lucas.

U have a point:D

TheDoc

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd pick a different week to take the p*ss out of lucas.

I dont think so.

I'm yet to see him do anything contributive towards liverpool.

Anytime I see him he is a player out of his depth and just has no footballing ability.

And he doesnt have any great defensive qualities either making me wonder what does he actually do, except look confused for 90 minutes.

Dublin_Gunner

TheDoc wrote: »

I dont think so.

I'm yet to see him do anything contributive towards liverpool.

Anytime I see him he is a player out of his depth and just has no footballing ability.

And he doesnt have any great defensive qualities either making me wonder what does he actually do, except look confused for 90 minutes.

While I do think your post is a little harsh, I do tend to form a similar opinion. Most people on these boards evidently see something in Lucas that pretty much no-one else can.

On Sunday he looked lost, apart from a few little passes etc and his tackling was awful.

Mr Alan

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm yet to see him do anything contributive towards liverpool.

you obviously missed the game Sunday. or the game at OT last season. or.....meh, i can't be bothered.

kida

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I do think your post is a little harsh, I do tend to form a similar opinion. Most people on these boards evidently see something in Lucas that pretty much no-one else can.

On Sunday he looked lost, apart from a few little passes etc and his tackling was awful.

very true and if he had been booked early as he should have been he would not have been able to risk fouling as much

Anthony16

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I do think your post is a little harsh, I do tend to form a similar opinion. Most people on these boards evidently see something in Lucas that pretty much no-one else can.

On Sunday he looked lost, apart from a few little passes etc and his tackling was awful.

Yes,i think a lot of the scousers are very biased towards him.He is slow,cant pass,is not big and definitely not brazilian although i did think he did well on sunday as a functional player.They are the same with ngog who is desperate

Anthony16

Vidic had a good game sunday.he got 7/10 in the paper which isnt bad.Dunphys claim that he had a horror show is not true.He was better than carra and kept torres quiet for long periods.Also,it wasnt his fault for the goal.The sending off really masked his good performance

Mr Alan

vidic is a centre half. he was unable to deal with Torres any way apart from fouling him. his team conceded two goals. and he got sent off. good game? really?

Anthony16

Mr Alan wrote: »

vidic is a centre half. he was unable to deal with Torres any way apart from fouling him. his team conceded two goals. and he got sent off. good game? really?

No,he actually made a lot of good tackles on torres and headed so many dangerous crosses away from danger.Fair enough,he fouled him a few times but everyone gives away a few fouls.Torres only got 1 chance all game

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

vidic is a centre half. he was unable to deal with Torres any way apart from fouling him. his team conceded two goals. and he got sent off. good game? really?

this, again, being the key phrase.

he handled him ok, but it was really only by doing this.

Mr Alan

thats not really handling him at all tbh.

Mr Alan

Anthony16 wrote: »

Torres only got 1 chance all game

true enough. Kuyt got a couple though too. so did Aurelio. so did Benayoun.