Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

Anthony16 · 28-10-2009 4:55pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

thats not really handling him at all tbh.

How many fouls did lucas,mascherano and carra give away?Did they not handle scholes and carrick.

Btw i dont believe vida did "this"

Boggles · 28-10-2009 4:56pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

he was unable to deal with Torres any way apart from fouling him.

I think you'll find Al the blond Spaniard was throwing himself about the place like Gerrard on steroids especially in the first half.

Mr Alan · 28-10-2009 4:56pm

couple from mascherano, few from Lucas, a lot of which weren't fouls, and i remember 1 from Carragher.

Anthony16 · 28-10-2009 4:57pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

true enough. Kuyt got a couple though too. so did Aurelio. so did Benayoun.

I put that down to the poor defensive display our midfield gave.There was constant pressure on the back 4 and i think that the centre halves did well enough.

However,i dont believe o shea is anywhere near good enough,going forward

Mr Alan · 28-10-2009 4:57pm

Boggles wrote: »

I think you'll find Al the blond Spaniard was throwing himself about the place like Gerrard on steroids especially in the first half.

lies.

Boggles · 28-10-2009 4:58pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

lies.

Your right, maybe not as bad old starfish.

Anthony16 · 28-10-2009 4:58pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

couple from mascherano, few from Lucas, a lot of which weren't fouls, and i remember 1 from Carragher.

They gave away more than that and all the decisions went against us in the 50 50 calls

Mr Alan · 28-10-2009 5:00pm

Boggles wrote: »

Your right, maybe not as bad old starfish.

its sad seeing you resort to this childish nonsense boggles

TheDoc · 28-10-2009 5:04pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

you obviously missed the game Sunday. or the game at OT last season. or.....meh, i can't be bothered.

Typical response I was expecting.

I got the same from a number of liverpool fans this week already and have to wonder what game was I watching.

Sunday I saw two defensive midfielders who overall for me are poor players.

Liverpool seem to go for this two holding midfielder thing, currently being Lucas and Macherano and thats fine, theres usually a Gerrard speerheading it, or last year an Alonso.

This year Liverpool look lackluster in the creative department.

Yosi is a talented player, but has a tendancy to blow roasting hot or stone cold. But it was his creative pass that led to liverpools goal. This is a guy who spends most of his time on the fringe or the bench, and he is your most creative midfield player ( should gerrard be in a more advanced role)

When you look accross the midfield you have Kuyt, mascherano, lucas, and on Sunday you had Aurellio.

That is not a championship contending midfield never mind victors.

Reira is a good player who I've alot of time for and when hes playing he gives you a good dimension on the left. Kuyt chips in with goals and the assists, but his ability to actually create something from nothing is well, not good. ( not his fault, he was a target man striker in holland)

I genuinely want some education as to why Lucas in like a weekend has turned from a mediocre midfielder to becoming some superstar.

Or is it just because he probably got a nice tackle in on wayne rooney or something? Cause he is an atrocious player, and that match was won by one piece of creative play, Yosi with a fantastic through ball to Torres ( who was having a very quite game with no service or chances)

Its a funny old game football, how some people can genuinely watch completely different games.

I was a neutral in a pub with united and pool heads and it was astonishing to see.

Liverpool had more possesion at times, but literally did not look threatening when they picked up the ball. United were not near their best but still looked and felt penetrative going forward. Although in front of goal they were very poor.

SlickRic · 28-10-2009 5:07pm

i remember one Torres 'dive' (when he went down with very minimal contact) in the first half about 40yds out where i thought 'that's a home decision', and one where he tripped over himself.

the rest he was kicked.

none of these arguments would have really changed the game, because as Fergie said himself, Utd didn't deserve anything.

SlickRic · 28-10-2009 5:11pm

TheDoc wrote: »

I genuinely want some education as to why Lucas in like a weekend has turned from a mediocre midfielder to becoming some superstar.

just on this...

if people are claiming him to be a superstar, they need smacked.

he just had a very good game; executing the game plan set out to him perfectly.

emc2 · 28-10-2009 5:27pm

TheDoc wrote: »

This year Liverpool look lackluster in the creative department.

The opta stats would disagree with you here:

Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy passes
Liverpool 24 158 77 49% 4018

Man Utd 21 133 66 50% 3971

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html

jesus_thats_gre · 28-10-2009 5:32pm

Being a central midfielder, Lucas obviously played a fairly important role in the game. Saying that, that's about where the conversation about Lucas should end. Hopefully he keeps putting in solid enough performances, keep working hard on improving his game and ultimately proves those who put faith him at the club right.

jesus_thats_gre · 28-10-2009 5:37pm

Those opta stats make for some interesting reading. Just goes to show, someone can perceive something as being the case (Liverpool being lacklustre in attack in this case) and be shown to be completely incorrect when facts are introduced.

Pro. F · 28-10-2009 7:07pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Those opta stats make for some interesting reading. Just goes to show, someone can perceive something as being the case (Liverpool being lacklustre in attack in this case) and be shown to be completely incorrect when facts are introduced.

I agree with the sentiment about facts and perception but the 'stats' used in football often prove nothing. Interpretation and investigation of data is what makes statistical studies useful. Most of the time the 'stats' in football, like the ones above, are just raw data with no statistical analysis.

jesus_thats_gre · 28-10-2009 7:15pm

I agree completely. I am always very interested in the differences between what people perceive to be the case versus the actual reality of a situation and how they arrive there.

Pro. F · 28-10-2009 7:20pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

vidic is a centre half. he was unable to deal with Torres any way apart from fouling him. his team conceded two goals. and he got sent off. good game? really?

His team had a massive gaping hole in midfield. He was playing against the best centre forward in the world (2nd or 3rd best at the very least). Centre halves can look bad when they're fighting fires all game, especially big bruiser types like Vidic. The second goal and the sending off came when United were chasing the game and the defence was left completely unsupported.

When he was on Torres he didn't let him score, Ferdinand did.

And he fouled Torres a lot you say? Oh no god help us!!!!1! A centre back being underhand!!

mada999 · 29-10-2009 7:11pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9rI8Qvmt4I&feature=popular

Mr Alan · 29-10-2009 7:14pm

Pro. F wrote: »

And he fouled Torres a lot you say? Oh no god help us!!!!1! A centre back being underhand!!

being unable to handle him & resorting to fouling him might result in him getting book/sent off, as it has the last 3 times he's played Liverpool.

a centre half who probably wont finish the game on the pitch? hardly wat your team wants.

kryogen · 29-10-2009 7:23pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

being unable to handle him & resorting to fouling him might result in him getting book/sent off, as it has the last 3 times he's played Liverpool.

a centre half who probably wont finish the game on the pitch? hardly wat your team wants.

how can you be so critical of Vidic?

He had very little and in some cases no support from Evra or Rio (the players on either side of him) in that game, he had nobody in midfield to give any extra protection to him, and even the best centre back in the world will struggle when that happens

He is still technically winning his personal battle with Torres anyway, they have played each other 7 times, Torres has scored in 2 or 3 of the games? (if he scored in both last season its 3) of the games if you want to look at it that way

Personally i dont see the point, he had a pretty good game, he had little support, his sending off was unlucky, as his first booking was harsh, second one was a yellow no complaints

the second goal is a mute point, he wasnt on the pitch and united were chasing the game at that stage and got caught out on a break

Just curious, is your logic about constant fouling the same when it comes to Lucas? i mean did he actually even end up with a booking in the game at all? how many fouls did he commit! but he had a "great" game. he musnt have been able to handle many of the united players

Mr Alan · 29-10-2009 7:25pm

the second goal is a moot point cause he wasn't on the pitch?

thats kind of my point.

i'm not being over critical, but people were saying he had a good game. he didn't & he seems scared of Torres, understandably.

kryogen · 29-10-2009 7:26pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

the second goal is a moot point cause he wasn't on the pitch?

yes

Mr Alan · 29-10-2009 7:31pm

he was off the pitch cause he had to resort to keep fouling. as was pointed out on MOTD that same night.

Waster · 30-10-2009 6:52pm

Pro. F wrote: »

To say that Fergie didn't set out the team to be ultra defensive in both legs of that semi against Barca is total fantasy. It doesn't matter who the players were it matters how they played and what orders they were given.

Spot on.

Waster · 30-10-2009 7:42pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

They gave away more than that and all the decisions went against us in the 50 50 calls

All of the decisions? Really? Did you actually watch the match? I sggest you watch it again. Even the highlights.
http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-v-manchester-united-26025

Anthony16 · 30-10-2009 8:07pm

Waster wrote: »

All of the decisions? Really? Did you actually watch the match? I sggest you watch it again. Even the highlights.
http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-v-manchester-united-26025

Yes i did watch the match.I actually taped it so i watched it twice,in fact.The officials were a disgrace.Too many decisions went against us.Even fergie said so afterwards and we know hes never biased:pac::P

Waster · 30-10-2009 9:36pm

TheDoc wrote: »

I genuinely want some education as to why Lucas in like a weekend has turned from a mediocre midfielder to becoming some superstar.

Here you go.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/26/liverpool-manchester-united-tactical-report
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article6890477.ece?&EMC-Bltn=VR10OB
Even Utd fans can see that Mascherano and Lucas dominated the midfield.
http://redrants.com/liverpool-outplay-poor-united/

Anthony16 · 31-10-2009 9:24pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

honestly, they're not.

Honestly,they are.Just thought id come back to this post seein as i was given a baptism of fire on my debut on the soccer forum.At least u now know i do have some idea about what im talkin about!!:pac:Glory glory man united

Liverpool V Manchester United Sunday 26th oct 2009 2.00pm (Mod note - #967)

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