Dublin Bikes [many] months on.

Ekaterina

Metrostar wrote: »

NO HELMETS... never. Helmets are a disaster. Look at Australia - they made helmets mandatory and cyclist numbers instantly halved and car drivers felt that they could drive EVEN FASTER because the cyclists were now protected.

Hey Metrostar,

It is NOT about making helmets mandatory at all!!! It is about providing them for everyone to be able to decide for themselves if they want to wear one or not. I do not wear a helmet when cycling myself And I would seriously mind myself as well if I was made to wear a helmet by law! I do not like laws too much in such real fly private things as they take away my choice and decision power as if I was not able to decide myself what is good for me and what is not.

Metrostar

Ekaterina wrote: »

Hey Metrostar,

It is NOT about making helmets mandatory at all!!! It is about providing them for everyone to be able to decide for themselves if they want to wear one or not. I do not wear a helmet when cycling myself And I would seriously mind myself as well if I was made to wear a helmet by law! I do not like laws too much in such real fly private things as they take away my choice and decision power as if I was not able to decide myself what is good for me and what is not.

I think that by having the helmet 'choice' we would go down the slippery slope. Kneejerk politicians would be able make helmets mandatory on the basis that they aree so easily available.

I can tell you based on my experience living in Amsterdam that nobody wears helmets here. In fact, mothers will cycle their kids to school along busy city streets on the front of their bikes and the kids don't wear helmets either!

Safety is a perception thing and rarely corralates with reality. Dublin cyclists may feel less safe than Amsterdam cyclists because there are far fewer cycle facilities in Dublin. Nevertheless, I could fill a book with the amount of accidents I have witnessed here including a girl being run over by a taxi! (she escaped with a light injury because the taxi was driving slowly).

The bottom line is that everything in life carries a certain risk. But we cannot and should not wrap ourselves in cotton wool. I am sure, statistically, more people die tripping on the footpath or the stairs than riding their bicycles. Yet nobody would suggest pedestrians should have the choice to rent helmets.

Capt'n Midnight

Ekaterina wrote: »

I think that if a helmet can help when the cyclist falls, it might help by reducing the injury in a collision as well - of course, if it is a really bad collision nothing will help as the "reduction" would simply be not enough

Bicycle helmets are designed to handle a fall. They are NOT designed to handle a collision, nor a bad collision and certainly not a really bad one.


Even IF cycle helmets did offer protection that outweighed risks of strangulation, catching and risk compensation by drivers and cyclists THEN there is still the huge problem of finding a way to ensure users adjust helmets correctly ( remember I said one size don't fit all ) and protect them from vandals.

If a user has an incident with a helmet, what happens , how do they ensure a weakened helmet is not used again ?
Will db be handing out hygenic hair nets ?


Medical specialists only see people who have had an accident. It's a very biased sample. Motorists and pedestrians should wear helmets since they have comparable head injuries per mile travelled. Can you imagine how safe the roads would be if drivers air bags were replaced by harpoons ? Safety is mostly about behaviour, risk compensation wipes out most of the benefits of safety technology.


Dublinbikes can't provide helmets that will offer significant protection in a collision. Because for that you need a motorbike helmet ,not a GAA helmet or a cycling one. A decent motorbike helmet will cost more than the €150 deposit on the bike.

If you want that level of nanny state we should just ban private cars, just about the biggest preventable killer of people in the 15-40 year age group.


It's simple - if people want a helmet they can bring their own, which is the right size for them, which is adjusted for them and has their germs on it and they know if it's been damaged.

Cookie_Monster

Year 1 Helmets get introduced and Gov / DCC come out with some made up statistics to show how much safer the DB are.

Year 2, high vis jackets become mandatory

Year 3, knee and elbow pads :pac::pac:

Knowing our Gov and the love of the nanny state thats what would happen. There is no need for a helmet on a bike unless downhill racing IMO, just look at the continent. Most countries don't even need a helmet on a moped.

Ekaterina

The thing is, that in my project it is not a question: to introduce helmets at db stations or not.
It is an absolutely theoretical project based on some assumptions. We assume that there are rental helmets at db stations (run by a private business, not DCC, but in cooperation with DCC and at their permission - yet another assumption). We further assume that one-way inlayers/hairnets or alike can ensure satisfactory level of hygiene & that the helmets are being checked on a daily bases & damaged ones are being replaced.
In this theoretical hypothetical situation the question of my project is: does the business run bankrupt as none uses the helmets really or does it remain viable and, if so, under which payment structure does it have a chance to remain viable:
only yearly charge & then free use;
yearly charge & than very small fees for each time used;
yearly charge & than a free limited time period after which charged hourly like the bikes them selves.
And how high/low do all the above fees can be to not put people off using the service (those people who hypotetically see rental helmets as a good idea and believe that they could protect them in a fall and even in a collision maybe - it does not really matter if helmets really can or cannot protect, it matters if there are people who believe that they can - and our survey shows that just under 85% believe that helmets enhance their protection in a collision, against 8% of those who believe helmets cannot provide any protection in a collision & 8% that are in between).
It is all out of business point of view. Not out of safety enhancement or cycling promoting point of view. You all know how business actually works - business abuses peoples ability to believe what they are told in the advertising (where we are told stuff that is only partly true or even just about not exactly a lie).... I am very sorry to be in a Business Studies at DCU, but cannot change it really - it is my final year...

Capt'n Midnight

Actually the solution is for Dublinbikes to supply - motorcycle airbag jackets

Ignoring the prohibitive cost and the one size fits all problem, you have to remember that air bags don't really offer much more protection than seat belts - so they wouldn't be needed if used actually belted up.



Anyways - when are the extra bikes arriving ?


Shouldn't there be signs up pointing to locations of stations, I still haven't found the one halfway down Georges / Aungier / Wexford street

positron

Spotted a damaged bike today at Talbot St, probably vandalized. It's as if someone kicked the back end of it to a side while the bike is locked to the station, the bike looks a bit bendy, and the rear wheel is rubbing off one side of the center stand. The bike is docked, but they system didn't show it as available.

Cookie_Monster

Ekaterina wrote: »

- and our survey shows that just under 85% believe that helmets enhance their protection in a collision, against 8% of those who believe helmets cannot provide any protection in a collision & 8% that are in between).

101% LOL

There wasn't a single person who said they can increase injury risk in certain circumstances then? Cos if you put that question up on the cycling forum you get that a lot, something to do with preventing your head from rolling wiuth your body and causing neck injuries (I'm sure its a minority of times that this would ever apply though)

bkbk

Hi Ekaterina

I don't see how this would work from a business POV either.

How do you plan to dispense them, an employee standing at each stand all day long, very costly?

Or some sort of automated machine, possible, but would be very complicated and they don't currently exist, so would be very expensive to get built for the limited numbers you are looking at.

Have you included the costs of purchasing a high tech micrscope and trained staff to examine helmets for microscopic damage?

Have you included the cost to cover insurance for when you get sued when someone gets killed while wearing a helmet?

Also I just don't see that many people would be willing to pay for these helmets or pay very much, remember the attraction of the bikes for must people is that they are free.

Given all the costs involved and how little people would be willing to pay, I don't see how it would be economical at all.

Even a quick back of the beer mat analysis I just did makes it long completely unfeasible, sorry.

A better project to have looked at would have been the feasibility of a bike rental scheme, like dublinbikes, but with no free 30 minute element, perhaps extended out to areas not currently covered by dublin bikes and perhaps interchangeable with dublin bikes.

Actually I'll shut up now, that is a really good business idea!

Ekaterina

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

101% LOL

There wasn't a single person who said they can increase injury risk in certain circumstances then? Cos if you put that question up on the cycling forum you get that a lot, something to do with preventing your head from rolling wiuth your body and causing neck injuries (I'm sure its a minority of times that this would ever apply though)

I know that is 101% - as figures are rounded up a bit: it is actually 84,6154...% and twice the 7,6923...%. The question that was asked in the survey is if helmets are likely or unlikely to reduce the damage to a cyclist in a collision - 84,6154...% said very likely or rather likely; 7,6923...% said very unlikely or rather unlikely and another 7,6923...% said neither likely nor unlikely...

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

Hi Ekaterina

I don't see how this would work from a business POV either.

How do you plan to dispense them, an employee standing at each stand all day long, very costly?

Or some sort of automated machine, possible, but would be very complicated and they don't currently exist, so would be very expensive to get built for the limited numbers you are looking at.

A magnetic system of the kind the bikes are currently using was proposed by the team, we allocated 1000 e for the terminal software & dispense system per db station in the cost.

bkbk wrote: »

Have you included the costs of purchasing a high tech micrscope and trained staff to examine helmets for microscopic damage?

Have you included the cost to cover insurance for when you get sued when someone gets killed while wearing a helmet?

We did not think of that, but (bad excuse, however) i do not think our professor did either. We need to include cost of 2 full time pr 4 part-time people into cost anyway though... And i have no idea how much would be the insurance?

bkbk wrote: »

Also I just don't see that many people would be willing to pay for these helmets or pay very much, remember the attraction of the bikes for must people is that they are free.

Given all the costs involved and how little people would be willing to pay, I don't see how it would be economical at all.

This is actually the only question that I was to ask here - would they be used or not and for how much max.

bkbk wrote: »

Even a quick back of the beer mat analysis I just did makes it long completely unfeasible, sorry.

We planned another revenue generating stream - advertising on the helmets for established very recognisable brands..

bkbk wrote: »

A better project to have looked at would have been the feasibility of a bike rental scheme, like dublinbikes, but with no free 30 minute element, perhaps extended out to areas not currently covered by dublin bikes and perhaps interchangeable with dublin bikes.

Actually I'll shut up now, that is a really good business idea!

In light of a soon enough planned expansion of db to suburbs I do not consider the 2nd bike-sharing scheme that is more expensive for users than db to be a good idea...

Capt'n Midnight

Ekaterina wrote: »

I know that is 101% - as figures are rounded up a bit: it is actually 84,6154...% and twice the 7,6923...%. The question that was asked in the survey is if helmets are likely or unlikely to reduce the damage to a cyclist in a collision - 84,6154...% said very likely or rather likely; 7,6923...% said very unlikely or rather unlikely and another 7,6923...% said neither likely nor unlikely...

I've seen enough badly worded surveys to take them with a pinch of salt.

looks like you didn't include a "don't know / don't care" option
or an option to give feelings

are the figures from cyclists or members of the public ?

opinions differ from what really happens, children are more at risk from people they know than strangers, the MMR scare meant that at least three people died here of preventable diseases


In the US there may be more kids reversed over by SUV's because they can't be seen in the mirrors than are saved by getting a lift in them instead of a smaller car. People think SUV's are safer, but most stats show they aren't.

Capt'n Midnight

Ekaterina wrote: »

A magnetic system of the kind the bikes are currently using was proposed by the team, we allocated 1000 e for the terminal software & dispense system per db station in the cost.

LOL
I'd like to see how you can have a vandal proof system to protect bulky expanded polystyrene objects , again the fitting problem , again the hygene problem

Quick question are you or the team / professor regular cyclists ?
Have you talked to any about this ?
Especially the bit about borrowing helmets worn by randomers


IMHO you have a solution in search of a problem

And i have no idea how much would be the insurance?

Don't forget we have a compo culture here, if someone figures out a way of milking the system all bets are off.

This is actually the only question that I was to ask here - would they be used or not and for how much max.

I would doubt it, helmets are personal.

We planned another revenue generating stream - advertising on the helmets for established very recognisable brands..

Now I really don't want to wear one
seriously - helmets warn against putting stickers on them as the solvents in the adhesive on labels can affect the plastic and compromise the structure of the helmet.

In light of a soon enough planned expansion of db to suburbs I do not consider the 2nd bike-sharing scheme that is more expensive for users than db to be a good idea...

it will still be oversubscribed and won't reach all of Rathmines/Rathgar , the Zoo would be another place people go , Dun Laoghaire, but yeah would be confusing that you had to switch bikes,.



Another plan would be to offer extra bikes with Ads on them, you pay DB for the stations and maintanance from the advertising revenue on the back of the bikes. - plenty of space on the mudguards, perhaps a rubber thing like a number plate to give greater area ?

perhaps an ad funded Galway bikes ??


IIRC it costs about €750 per bike per year for some of the schemes on the continent, here we have €300,000 income from subscribers so would pay for 400 bikes. Revenue from ads and late fees would be added on top of this, so if you can find the right economics a db type scheme could be self funded once you get the startup capital.

Ekaterina

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I've seen enough badly worded surveys to take them with a pinch of salt.

looks like you didn't include a "don't know / don't care" option
or an option to give feelings

are the figures from cyclists or members of the public ?

The "neither, nor" option is meant to be "don't know / don't care" option. All people surveyed were people either getting or returning db's.

bkbk

Ekaterina wrote: »

A magnetic system of the kind the bikes are currently using was proposed by the team, we allocated 1000 e for the terminal software & dispense system per db station in the cost.

Erm, increase that cost at least by a factor of 10, if not 20, I'm afraid.

It would need to be enclosed, otherwise the helmet would get wet/pissed on.

As a guide, a snacks vending machine would cost between €5000 to €20000.

Also as a software engineer I can tell you the software and systems integration is going to cost a lot more.

Ekaterina wrote: »

We did not think of that, but (bad excuse, however) i do not think our professor did either. We need to include cost of 2 full time pr 4 part-time people into cost anyway though... And i have no idea how much would be the insurance?

So your wage bill is minimum €65,000 per year, all on minimum wage and not including PRSI and other employee expenses. Realistically a lot more, at least for the two full timers (I assume they are running the business, accountant and ad sales rep).

Probably looking at a wage bill approaching €200,000

I've no idea how much insurance would cost, it is such an unusual thing to insure, but probably > €100,000 per year.

Ekaterina wrote: »

This is actually the only question that I was to ask here - would they be used or not and for how much max.

Personally I'd be very surprised if they would be used for even 10% of the time and for no more then €1 per rental (anymore and you might as well get a bus).

So lets do the maths, I believe db get used on average 2,200 trips per day.

So lets be generous and say the helmets get rented 20% of the time at €1 each. Your income would work out at €160,000 per year. Maybe add another €40,000 from advertising. And that is all being generous.

So Your income would be about €200,000 (not including taxes, etc)

But you outgoings would be:

Staff: €200,000
Insurance: €100,000
Rental machines: €400,000 (minimum €10,000 per machine x 40 stations)
Software Integration: €100,000
Helmets: €40,000 (10 per stand @ €100 each)
Disposable Liners: €10,000

And I'm being very generous with income and very much low balling outgoings.

Ekaterina wrote: »

We planned another revenue generating stream - advertising on the helmets for established very recognisable brands..

Yes, I thought you might have been thinking of that also, but your not going to get as much as you might think, it isn't exactly a large visible surface like the side of a bus. You should talk to someone in advertising. Sponsorship is probably a better way to go.

Ekaterina wrote: »

In light of a soon enough planned expansion of db to suburbs I do not consider the 2nd bike-sharing scheme that is more expensive for users than db to be a good idea...

But that is the thing, they are no plans to extend into the suburbs, only to add 4 extra stations in the city area.

Imagine a second scheme that uses the exact same bikes, cards and stands as the current scheme, fully interchangeable. If you pick up and drop off a bike at a free stand (in under 30 minutes) then the bike is free. However if you pick up or drop off a bike at a pay stand then your charged for the first 30 minutes. Very simple, basically allows you to extend the scheme to a much more areas quickly. And you have easy startup as people are already set up for dublin bike and are use to how it works.

You could reduce the station installation cost by using Bixi type modular stands.

The only major problem you would have is making sure you have enough city center stands and redistributing the bikes at peak times. Perhaps you could reduce this issue with contra flow pricing. Free if you take the bike in a direction opposite to everyone else at peak times.

No offense, but it is a much better and more feasible business idea then helmets rental scheme.

However I would admit my idea would probably be best run as a sort of non profit charity, then a full business.

hmmm

Step 1: Someone brings out a survey showing that helmets would reduce cycling injuries by 103789304% and 100% of the population that don't cycle support making helmets mandatory
Step 2: Someone is injured on a Dublin bike, probably by drunkenly cycling into something or while using one as a hat
Step 3: Mothers of Ireland are on Joe Duffy screaming that helmets should be mandatory
Step 4: Government make the use of helmets compulsory and the Guards rigidly enforce the law
Step 5: Dublin bikes shut down due to lack of use

Ekaterina

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

LOL
I'd like to see how you can have a vandal proof system to protect bulky expanded polystyrene objects , again the fitting problem , again the hygene problem

Quick question are you or the team / professor regular cyclists ?
Have you talked to any about this ?
Especially the bit about borrowing helmets worn by randomers

I would doubt it, helmets are personal.

How do you go to the toilet in a pub then or how girls do? Or seat on the seat in the plane where xxx sat before you! It is all hygiene, but all solved somehow and everyone uses it.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Now I really don't want to wear one
seriously - helmets warn against putting stickers on them as the solvents in the adhesive on labels can affect the plastic and compromise the structure of the helmet.

How do they place normal advertising on helmets during sports events then? I mean it is ridiculous to just assume that everything is impossible and damaging and bad bad bad!

I bet I'd rather spend my time somewhere else than here - it is a time sink and the attitude of the people within the discussion is just hostile and not solution seeking at all. These bloody helmets were not my idea, remain not my idea and only the fact that I do not want to get 55 or so for my team project makes me drive this whole thing as if it was my precious baby. I cannot propose any other ideas at this stage. I need to defend what was proposed by the team and what the team as you can see (can you?) is helping me to defend so eagerly. Full stop here as it is not any productive. Thank all very much for comments - some of them are very helpful but at a quite high emotional cost that is not worth it. Thus, I am out. Sorry.

Capt'n Midnight

Bike helmets are designed to take an impact at 12mph ( 20Kmh )

This is a little less than the energy difference between an impact at 50Kmh and one at 54Kmh (energy is based on the speed squared)


now let me drag out this stat about law abiding Irish Motorists
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/2000/htmltext,2565,en.html

Urban Arterial Roads :

Surveys conducted before peak morning traffic conditions found that :

* The average free speed of cars within the 30 mph zone is 45 mph.
* 99% of cars exceeded the 30 mph limit.
* 72% were travelling in excess of 40 mph in the 30 mile zone.

Average speed 45mph = 72.4 Km/hr, - you'd need a motorbike helmet to offer protection at these speeds. A cycle helmet designed for 12mph won't do much except keep your head warm and dry.


Penalty points for speeding have almost certainly reduced the average collision impact far more than helmets ever could.

bkbk

Ekaterina wrote: »

I bet I'd rather spend my time somewhere else than here - it is a time sink and the attitude of the people within the discussion is just hostile and not solution seeking at all. These bloody helmets were not my idea, remain not my idea and only the fact that I do not want to get 55 or so for my team project makes me drive this whole thing as if it was my precious baby. I cannot propose any other ideas at this stage. I need to defend what was proposed by the team and what the team as you can see (can you?) is helping me to defend so eagerly. Full stop here as it is not any productive. Thank all very much for comments - some of them are very helpful but at a quite high emotional cost that is not worth it. Thus, I am out. Sorry.

Really there is no need to get opposite, part of business is coming up with an idea, studying if it will work out or not and often discarding the idea if it is not feasible. The most important thing in business is to not get too attached to an idea, otherwise you risk sinking money into something that won't work out.

I hope that an allowable valid outcome for your project, is to find that the business idea isn't a runner. If I was a professor I'd probably give extra credit to students who found and could prove that the initial idea wasn't achievable, it is good real world business experience.

You should be proud of yourself, you seem to be putting a lot of effort into this, far more then probably most students. Just don't get too hung up on this particular idea and learn from the experience.

Cookie_Monster

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Average speed 45mph = 72.4 Km/hr, - you'd need a motorbike helmet to offer protection at these speeds. A cycle helmet designed for 12mph won't do much except keep your head warm and dry.

mph, data bit out of date, no? That said probably not much difference.



In answer to the project that needs to be done, I have a simple one line statement to solve it.

"Having done some preliminary research online, there is no way this project can ever be viable under current any circumstances."

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

Erm, increase that cost at least by a factor of 10, if not 20, I'm afraid.

It would need to be enclosed, otherwise the helmet would get wet/pissed on.

Would you personally piss on a helmet? I would not. High enough to not be reached by dogs. Under a kind of a roof to protect from rain.

bkbk wrote: »

As a guide, a snacks vending machine would cost between €5000 to €20000.

a very fancy vending machine (printing ability, interactive screen, different disposed object sizes) etc etc costs 8.000, I got a quote. We opted to go for non-machine disposal & co-use of existing terminals via upgrade.

bkbk wrote: »

Also as a software engineer I can tell you the software and systems integration is going to cost a lot more.

Why should it cost much to add different but similar content on the db existing terminals? It is like changing a website content...

bkbk wrote: »

So your wage bill is minimum €65,000 per year, all on minimum wage and not including PRSI and other employee expenses. Realistically a lot more, at least for the two full timers (I assume they are running the business, accountant and ad sales rep).

Probably looking at a wage bill approaching €200,000

The team is all business studies graduates, thus assume working ourselves & min wage.

bkbk wrote: »

I've no idea how much insurance would cost, it is such an unusual thing to insure, but probably > €100,000 per year.

this is all assumptions, not real figures.

bkbk wrote: »

Personally I'd be very surprised if they would be used for even 10% of the time and for no more then €1 per rental (anymore and you might as well get a bus).

So lets do the maths, I believe db get used on average 2,200 trips per day.

It is officially up to over 4,000 per day - see dublinbikes.ie

bkbk wrote: »

So lets be generous and say the helmets get rented 20% of the time at €1 each. Your income would work out at €160,000 per year. Maybe add another €40,000 from advertising. And that is all being generous.

So Your income would be about €200,000 (not including taxes, etc)

And I'm being very generous with income and very much low balling outgoings.



Yes, I thought you might have been thinking of that also, but your not going to get as much as you might think, it isn't exactly a large visible surface like the side of a bus. You should talk to someone in advertising. Sponsorship is probably a better way to go.

advertising if would work out would be much more as you are calculating less than 100e per helmet per year now - it is to few if you compare to advertising cost of the day. It is just a catching logo that should be on the helmets - no need for big space either.

But, I really should just leave it here, as as far as I know there were many people who posted their strong opinions on how and why db scheme itself would fail and how all the bikes would be vandalised etc etc, but nothing ever happened of this pessimistic stuff... I just got in the pessimistic stream here which is being supported by the group sense here that is against the intruder (me) and the general healthy risk aversion that prevents people with great ideas for businesses to actually ever implement them.

And I really have loads of other stuff to do for other modules in DCU to not result with 55 there due to paying all the attention to this project in the attempt to not let the Titanic sink. And I better try to remain where I belong with my grades, which is a good bit higher than 55 normally.

Cookie_Monster

Ekaterina wrote: »

Would you personally piss on a helmet? I would not. High enough to not be reached by dogs. Under a kind of a roof to protect from rain.
.

we all do silly things when drunk, I reckon I'd find this hilarious when pissed :pac:

bkbk

Ekaterina wrote: »

Would you personally piss on a helmet? I would not. High enough to not be reached by dogs. Under a kind of a roof to protect from rain.

Me, of course not, but the dregs of Dublin society, I'm afraid so.

Ekaterina wrote: »

Why should it cost much to add different but similar content on the db existing terminals? It is like changing a website content...

I did say I was a software engineer, didn't I?

You are going to have to add new electronics and RFID readers to track when a helmet is removed and returned. This then needs to be integrated into the db station software and then integrated with the back end accounting system.

And then it would all need to be compiled and QA tested before being rolled out to all the machines.

It isn't a simple HTML upgrade, pretty complex and costly stuff.

Ekaterina wrote: »

The team is all business studies graduates, thus assume working ourselves & min wage.

But then what is the point of the project?

Is it not to teach students how to accurately cost out a business idea in the real world?

Are you actually going to try and do this business idea? If yes, then fair enough, if not then surely the assignment set by the professor should be to cost out the idea in the real world, not based on the cost of students and people giving their free time.

Ekaterina wrote: »

this is all assumptions, not real figures.

Of course

Ekaterina wrote: »

It is officially up to over 4,000 per day - see dublinbikes.ie

That's cool, glad it is doing so well.

Ekaterina wrote: »

advertising if would work out would be much more as you are calculating less than 100e per helmet per year now - it is to few if you compare to advertising cost of the day. It is just a catching logo that should be on the helmets - no need for big space either.

But the size and exposure does have a big impact on how much advertising you get. After all it is a little logo on the side of a helmet as a person wizzes by, your not going to get much from it.

Also JC Decaux, the advertising company who run the dublin bike scheme probably wouldn't allow it, I'd imagine it was part of the original contract with DCC.

Ekaterina wrote: »

But, I really should just leave it here, as as far as I know there were many people who posted their strong opinions on how and why db scheme itself would fail and how all the bikes would be vandalised etc etc, but nothing ever happened of this pessimistic stuff...

Yes, but if you look back at my posting history (as bk, my old account) you will see that was never me, I've always been very positive about dublin bikes.

Ekaterina wrote: »

I just got in the pessimistic stream here which is being supported by the group sense here that is against the intruder (me) and the general healthy risk aversion that prevents people with great ideas for businesses to actually ever implement them.

Or perhaps it just isn't a particularly sustainable business idea. Most ideas aren't, that is why coming up with great business ideas isn't so easy.

Anyway, it has been fun working the idea through.

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

Me, of course not, but the dregs of Dublin society, I'm afraid so.



I did say I was a software engineer, didn't I?

You are going to have to add new electronics and RFID readers to track when a helmet is removed and returned. This then needs to be integrated into the db station software and then integrated with the back end accounting system.

And then it would all need to be compiled and QA tested before being rolled out to all the machines.

It isn't a simple HTML upgrade, pretty complex and costly stuff.



But then what is the point of the project?

Is it not to teach students how to accurately cost out a business idea in the real world?

Are you actually going to try and do this business idea? If yes, then fair enough, if not then surely the assignment set by the professor should be to cost out the idea in the real world, not based on the cost of students and people giving their free time.



Of course



That's cool, glad it is doing so well.



But the size and exposure does have a big impact on how much advertising you get. After all it is a little logo on the side of a helmet as a person wizzes by, your not going to get much from it.

Also JC Decaux, the advertising company who run the dublin bike scheme probably wouldn't allow it, I'd imagine it was part of the original contract with DCC.



Yes, but if you look back at my posting history (as bk, my old account) you will see that was never me, I've always been very positive about dublin bikes.



Or perhaps it just isn't a particularly sustainable business idea. Most ideas aren't, that is why coming up with great business ideas isn't so easy.

Anyway, it has been fun working the idea through.

That's why it is just a college project!!!! There cannot be 100 college projects that are perfectly viable business ideas each year. But all of them have to be presented as if they were... Yes, we do need to calculate cost, but we also were asked to use "free" work force and bootstrapping as much as we can, thus, all as professor wishes so far.

bkbk

Ekaterina wrote: »

That's why it is just a college project!!!! There cannot be 100 college projects that are perfectly viable business ideas each year. But all of them have to be presented as if they were... Yes, we do need to calculate cost, but we also were asked to use "free" work force and bootstrapping as much as we can, thus, all as professor wishes so far.

No offense intended, but then your professor is an idiot.

If the project is theoretical, then the exercise is only useful to the students if it is costed in the real world and if a valid outcome of the business plan is that the business plan isn't economically viable. That would be much more educational then running some fantasy costing scheme, which then endss up being useless knowledge to you when you end up in the real business world.

Sorry, I know it isn't your fault, you are only doing what your professor tells you, but working in the real business world it really annoys me seeing the clueless graduates we end up getting, due to clueless business lecturers and professors with their heads stuck in books.

Do what you need to do to get the maximum result in college, no matter how dump it is. But also try to learn a little from what people are saying here and realise that things are very different in the real world. That knowledge will give you a big leg up when you leave college.

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

No offense intended, but then your professor is an idiot.

If the project is theoretical, then the exercise is only useful to the students if it is costed in the real world and if a valid outcome of the business plan is that the business plan isn't economically viable. That would be much more educational then running some fantasy costing scheme, which then endss up being useless knowledge to you when you end up in the real business world.

Sorry, I know it isn't your fault, you are only doing what your professor tells you, but working in the real business world it really annoys me seeing the clueless graduates we end up getting, due to clueless business lecturers and professors with their heads stuck in books.

Do what you need to do to get the maximum result in college, no matter how dump it is. But also try to learn a little from what people are saying here and realise that things are very different in the real world. That knowledge will give you a big leg up when you leave college.

In the real world I opt for businesses that generate cash, even if small & from time to time, without initial investments. Cash in pays for order & leaves profit. This is my no big win, but definitely zero loose model. Cheers, everyone.

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

No offense intended, but then your professor is an idiot.

If the project is theoretical, then the exercise is only useful to the students if it is costed in the real world and if a valid outcome of the business plan is that the business plan isn't economically viable. That would be much more educational then running some fantasy costing scheme, which then endss up being useless knowledge to you when you end up in the real business world.

Sorry, I know it isn't your fault, you are only doing what your professor tells you, but working in the real business world it really annoys me seeing the clueless graduates we end up getting, due to clueless business lecturers and professors with their heads stuck in books.

Do what you need to do to get the maximum result in college, no matter how dump it is. But also try to learn a little from what people are saying here and realise that things are very different in the real world. That knowledge will give you a big leg up when you leave college.

I will talk to the professor anyway as per what option she wants really. the thing is to give what she wants. however, I was really surprised to see such 100% negative reaction towards the idea here as on the db stations around 40% of the surveyed people said they would use the helmets & even pay 50c for that (which surprised me really) - the willingness correlated with cycling time of more than 10-15mins. Plus, the subscription fee. Plus, advertising thing. I mean, I have stats from the survey to present the idea as more or less viable. And as not-viable as well, if I want to, or better if professor wants me to. And even if we as business students are asked to protect unviable ideas it enhances our skills as well as we surely understand all the barriers to our idea, but go for the next challenge to still be able to "sell" it to potential investors. Thus I disagree with bkbk that the professor does not teach us any good. Besides, it is not possible given financial & time constraints to research all the sides of the project properly properly and in student environment we have to work with assumptions. And if you want to encourage entrepreneurship as a professor you need to work with extremely optimistic assumptions as well!!!

Ekaterina

bkbk wrote: »

Erm, increase that cost at least by a factor of 10, if not 20, I'm afraid.

Helmets: €40,000 (10 per stand @ €100 each)

This is defo money thrown away. Why should a helmet cost €100 each? Retail on sale price was given by another boards user at 17 euro! So it is defo not the approach we should adopt when starting a theoretical business. Search the cheapest that still provides the needed security standards as per legislation. So sorry, I might underestimate the magnetic system cost, but you defo overestimate helmets bulk price!

Run_to_da_hills

Ekaterina wrote: »

This is defo money thrown away. Why should a helmet cost €100 each? Retail on sale price was given by another boards user at 17 euro! So it is defo not the approach we should adopt when starting a theoretical business. Search the cheapest that still provides the needed security standards as per legislation. So sorry, I might underestimate the magnetic system cost, but you defo overestimate helmets bulk price!

A €17 cycle helmet would not save you if you fell out of bed. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't touch any cycle helmet unless it was branded by a reputable manufacturer and cost at least €100. My Arai Astra motorcycle helmet stood me in excess of €500

bkbk

Ekaterina wrote: »

I will talk to the professor anyway as per what option she wants really.

You should do and perhaps mention or even point her to the comments here. I'd actually love to talk to her, it would be a very interesting conversation (BTW I mean that in a completely sincere manner, no attacks or anything like that, just a conversation on what is the best way to educate students.)

Ekaterina wrote: »

This is defo money thrown away. Why should a helmet cost €100 each? Retail on sale price was given by another boards user at 17 euro! So it is defo not the approach we should adopt when starting a theoretical business. Search the cheapest that still provides the needed security standards as per legislation. So sorry, I might underestimate the magnetic system cost, but you defo overestimate helmets bulk price!

€100 for any sort of decent helmet. Plus you will need the type that can be adjusted with different tighteners, rather then velcro inserts, they tend to cost more.

Plus, given your plan, you will need a special helmet with rfid chip built in and some sort of mechanism with a magnet and hook built right into the helmet.

That will be a special order and therefore cost more.