IMPACT backs strike action over pay cuts

irish_bob

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Grrrr, it really makes my blood boil when people get off their asses and actually do something about the ass raping the people in charge of this country give ordinary people every day.

My mother is a teacher. I see a lot of nonsense posted up here "public servants" and "cushy jobs".

The vast majority of public servants are actually hard working and get paid an ordinary wage.

define an ordinary wage

mikemac

mrgaa1 wrote: »

let them strike - they don't get paid for going on strike and when they are into their 2nd and 3rd weeks and the media eventually get round to talking about the war chest that the unions have and the fact they are not giving it out, coupled with the fact that there is no pay coming in and christmas isn't far away they'll be back working - realising that those on the dole can't go back.
Smash the unions!!!!!!!!!

The unions have massive reserves.
And they won't call a general strike, just key sectors and not all at the same time.
Even with their massive reserves the unions couldn't pay strike pay to all their members for weeks and weeks.
Besides work to rule might be very effective

Harsh budget in December.
Most people (well me ) and anyone on a monthly salary goes 5 weeks without pay until January.
I doubt many members will be calling for strike action
Will be it Spring next year before we see any strikes?

All pure speculation on my part

irish_bob

AARRRGH wrote: »

Ah not this rubbish again.

It has been repeatedly proven beyond any doubt that public service workers on average are paid a lot more money than private sector workers.

why bother you little head with independant thought when your union can programme you to be an on message slogan repeating clone

ps , this post is not in reply to your comment aarrrgh , the other guy or gal , degsy

irish_bob

bridgitt wrote: »

+1

Can the private sector - who is paid less, with less perks ( pension, holidays, hours etc ) - have a counter demo I wonder ? How much longer can the silent majority, who have no union to represent them and who cannot go on strike, keep going ?

name the time and place and i will be front and centre at any counter demonstration , theese people would happily bleed the rest of us tax paying stiffs dry , they must be faced down

nesf

TheZohan wrote: »

Moved to Politics.

Please don't move threads filled with posts like the early ones to Politics thanks.

Stark

Zzippy wrote: »

If the government is broke, it can do two things - cut costs or raise revenue. Or it can do both. It has already cut costs, and is planning more cuts. Fair enough. But why should it not raise more revenue too, through additional tax? The only reason against doing that in your analogy with a private firm is that in a private firm, raising costs would mean losing business to competitors. But the government is the only firm in the business - there are no competitors providing an alternative public service. So raising tax is another viable means of funding the shortfall.

Except they've already raised tax and tried to do the same thing in the 80s. I didn't work in the 80s and it didn't work this time round (tax intake is still lower than expected). Mostly because no-one is going to bother working if 60% of the return goes to the government. I know I for one don't bother looking for ways to earn extra money in work if only a third of it ends up in my pocket.

Economic recovery only started in this country when we started cutting spending and cutting taxes towards the end of the 80s.

nesf

Stark wrote: »

Except they've already raised tax and tried to do the same thing in the 80s. I didn't work in the 80s and it didn't work this time round (tax intake is still lower than expected). Mostly because no-one is going to bother working if 60% of the return goes to the government. I know I for one don't bother looking for ways to earn extra money in work if only a third of it ends up in my pocket.

Further than that, punitive tax rates encourage "black market" economic activity. It encourages tax evasion from large scale off-shore bank account stuff from wealthy people to doing small jobs off the books for cash for ordinary tradespeople. Higher taxes also disencourage people from getting off the dole.

We just can't simply tax our way out of this.

Koloman

IMPACT representative on Vincent Browne at the moment.

ardmacha

We cannot tax our way out of this, but the government have more or less decided to ignore the Commission on Taxation and its recommendations for things like property taxes that do not directly disincentivise work.

Taxipete29

Koloman wrote: »

IMPACT representative on Vincent Browne at the moment.

That man would turn anyone off supporting PS workers. He is arrogant beyond belief

mikemac

If taxes go up in December then people on higher rate would have to consider if it's worth their while doing overtime in their job at all

Yes, not everyone earns enough for higher rate or even gets overtime but if you do, then you may reckon it's not even worth it
And that's even less tax collected then!

gandalf

Taxipete29 wrote: »

That man would turn anyone off supporting PS workers. He is arrogant beyond belief

Already turned off supporting them ages ago. He is just confirming this.

thebman

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes he was predicting it in 2001..I remember that.


If you say something often enough...

lol yeah along with everyone else telling us our path was unsustainable.

It was kind of obvious building houses and hoping to fill them with immigrants who come here to build more houses was not sustainable.

gurramok

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes he was predicting it in 2001..I remember that.

If you say something often enough...

Telling a heart patient he is is deep trouble and he ignores that advice is what happened.

George Lee and Morgan Kelly were constantly ridiculed by the govt and the bankers for their wise economic analysis on their dead accurate predictions of the present disaster.

Even amateur myself and others were predicting this mess on boards as early as 2006 but the likes of you through your past posts on banking denied it!(you changed tack this year )

RiverWilde

So far what I've seen is a govt. that is only interested in protecting the establishment - NAMA is the biggest insult to the Irish people since independence - now the govt. wants to cut social welfare?

If the govt. cut TD's salaries by 50% and cut out all the expenses - then I might listen - as it stands all the govt. is capable of doing is hitting those most vulnerable in society.

Riv

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

That man would turn anyone off supporting PS workers. He is arrogant beyond belief

funny i found him to be the least obnoxious or agressive of the unions heads i usually see on tv , he came across as almost pleasant compared to o,connor or the grimacing mcloone

jmayo

Noreen1 wrote: »

Please explain where you get the impression that so many people are "average dumbos"?

Here's a reality check:

No-one foresaw the Banking Crises, and the "experts" were all denying that there would be a property crash - as late as July '08.
...
Noreen

Bullsh**.
As other posters have mentioned a fair few commentators were warning.
The lieks of McWilliamsn, Morgan Kelly, George Lee.
The reason I started posting on these forums in Dec 2006/Jan 2007 was to voice concern in the now famous Property Bubble thread on Accomodation & Property.
So lots of people did foresee a major problem, but just because you and others chose to ignore very valid concerns and belierved all the sh**e you were fed is no excuse.

And before you utter the argument about US led credit crunch and subprime being unforeseen, that was also foreseen by a few commentators and they were ignored while people clammered to join the gravy train to easy riches.

gurramok wrote: »

Telling a heart patient he is is deep trouble and he ignores that advice is what happened.

George Lee and Morgan Kelly were constantly ridiculed by the govt and the bankers for their wise economic analysis on their dead accurate predictions of the present disaster.

Even amateur myself and others were predicting this mess on boards as early as 2006 but the likes of you through your past posts on banking denied it!(you changed tack this year )

There aren't many bulls around anymore, the bulls*** is finally at an end
Although it seems the proponents of NAMA are still spreading it thick and fast :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

The tax rate of 50% is ridiculous and by the time you pay the income levy and prsi, its ridiculous! people are calling for the ones at the top to get screwed, they are the ones getting screwed!

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

funny i found him to be the least obnoxious or agressive of the unions heads i usually see on tv , he came across as almost pleasant compared to o,connor or the grimacing mcloone

He didnt have a beard that seems to be a pre-requisite to being a union official but thats where the differences ended imo. I like unions, I believe in unions, but what I cant stomach is hypocracy from jumped up tradespeople and clerical officers. These guys have a responsibilty to their members to present the facts of the situation and their opinion. It is not within their remit to ram an agenda down peoples throats through scare tactics. Some PS workers genuinely will feel hard done by when there are cuts and in some cases rightly so. Others just jump on whatever bandwagon happens to being going by at the time.

leninbenjamin

Bob_Harris wrote: »

My mother is a teacher. I see a lot of nonsense posted up here "public servants" and "cushy jobs".

So's my ma. She's currently out of work as when we moved, the local schools would hire friends/family/past pupils fresh out of college over the woman with a decade's worth of experience.

I know very well how hard teaching can be and i've had some very good teachers too over the years who deserved every single penny that came their way. But I also had plenty of teachers over the years who simply didn't understand what they were being paid to teach and who should never have been hired in the first place. And sadly the latter seems to be the more common.

The public sector is in a mess. Until it's sorted out and tax payers are actually guaranteed their money is effectively spent, I will never support strike action by any area of the public sector.

akaredtop

What turns my stomach is to see Mr Peter McCloone on the telly preaching, after he oversaw the waste of millions of taxpayer's euro in that rotten FAS organisation.

skearon

akaredtop wrote: »

What turns my stomach is to see Mr Peter McCloone on the telly preaching, after he oversaw the waste of millions of taxpayer's euro in that rotten FAS organisation.

He also went on a jolly with a colleague to Orlando in Jan 2007, that cost around €20,000, a sum higher than many of his members' annual take home pay.

skearon

RiverWilde wrote: »

So far what I've seen is a govt. that is only interested in protecting the establishment - NAMA is the biggest insult to the Irish people since independence - now the govt. wants to cut social welfare?

If the govt. cut TD's salaries by 50% and cut out all the expenses - then I might listen - as it stands all the govt. is capable of doing is hitting those most vulnerable in society.

Riv

If you opened your eyes you would see a government implementing policies to protect society and the economy.

NAMA is fully approved and supported by the ECB, do you seriously think they would propose spend €50+b if they didnt think the plan would work?

The 'most vunerable', does that incl the 150,000+ who refused to work during a sustained period of full employment?

TCP/IP_King

ibarelycare wrote: »

Ditto for private sector workers....yet I don't see them complaining about it......

You don't spend enough time reading boards.ie then !!

thebman

skearon wrote: »

If you opened your eyes you would see a government implementing policies to protect society and the economy.

NAMA is fully approved and supported by the ECB, do you seriously think they would propose spend €50+b if they didnt think the plan would work?

The 'most vunerable', does that incl the 150,000+ who refused to work during a sustained period of full employment?

The ECB don't want any EU bank to fail. They couldn't give a crap about the plan as long as it achieves that goal and don't care if it will make its money back because either way, the Irish tax payer is going to have to pay back the loans.

Why the hell would the ECB start playing politics and come out and say NAMA is robbing the Irish tax payer?

They don't care if our government is that fooked up, that is our business not theirs. They just want us to stop our banks failing.

skearon

thebman wrote: »

The ECB don't want any EU bank to fail. They couldn't give a crap about the plan as long as it achieves that goal and don't care if it will make its money back because either way, the Irish tax payer is going to have to pay back the loans.

Why the hell would the ECB start playing politics and come out and say NAMA is robbing the Irish tax payer?

They don't care if our government is that fooked up, that is our business not theirs. They just want us to stop our banks failing.

Try reading the proposed business plan for NAMA, then perhaps you might post some facts as opposed to the nonsense above.

thebman

skearon wrote: »

Try reading the proposed business plan for NAMA, then perhaps you might post some facts as opposed to the nonsense above.

lol love the carefully thought out contribution to the thread. You've turned me round on the issue. Care to explain why you think NAMA will work?

AARRRGH

Noreen1 wrote: »

Please explain where you get the impression that so many people are "average dumbos"?

All you have to do is read the posts on boards to see the vast majority of people cannot grasp simple economics concepts. For example, they think houses are great value now when you compare them to peak bubble prices; and no matter how clearly we try to explain things to them, they refuse to listen or understand.

Noreen1 wrote: »

Here's a reality check:

No-one foresaw the Banking Crises, and the "experts" were all denying that there would be a property crash - as late as July '08.

What are you talking about? There were loads of non-economists like me posting about the impending crash for the past few years.

It was OBVIOUS to people who didn't have a vested interest in the property bubble that a huge banking/property crash was on its way.

I have been advising people to sell their homes/bank shares since around 2005/2006. And I know nothing about economics. I just happen to be someone who uses his brain every now and then.

AARRRGH

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes he was predicting it in 2001..I remember that.


If you say something often enough...

He was right though - things started going mad around 2001.

But you'll see, we will shortly have a 1990's economy.

I'm waiting for the media to realise the Celtic Tiger was bad for Ireland, and in fact was based entirely around people swapping credit with each other.

lmimmfn

AARRRGH wrote: »

All you have to do is read the posts on boards to see the vast majority of people cannot grasp simple economics concepts. For example, they think houses are great value now when you compare them to peak bubble prices; and no matter how clearly we try to explain things to them, they refuse to listen or understand.




What are you talking about? There were loads of non-economists like me posting about the impending crash for the past few years.

It was OBVIOUS to people who didn't have a vested interest in the property bubble that a huge banking/property crash was on its way.

I have been advising people to sell their homes/bank shares since around 2005/2006. And I know nothing about economics. I just happen to be someone who uses his brain every now and then.

Im 100% behind you mate, this was even obvious in 2002 that it was unsustainable.
I was thinking of buying several times in the boom but couldnt fathom how people could be taking 300,000Euro+ mortgages, absolutely insane unless youre on 100,000+ a year.