Would you vote for Libertas (and why?)

djsomers

I am interested to here from anyone out there who would actually vote for Libertas. I cannot find one single shred of policy or even collective opinion from this party. Can someone enlighten me?

evercloserunion

They have never really been forthcoming about what their policies are but what evidence there is points to a very right-wing party. Libertas so far have shown themselves to be socially conservative and libertarian economically. I wrote about it on another site http://www.politics.ie/blogs/evercloserunion/129-finally-hint-libertas-policy-direction.html

I would never vote for them. I completely disagree with (what would probably be) their economic and social policies, but much more than that, I think they are the most dishonest party ever in Irish politics. They told a large amount of blatant lies, as well as disseminating inaccurate and misleading information. They also tend to rely hevaily on ad hominem arguments and other disingenuous tactics to discredit their opponents and push their agenda.

djsomers

I totally agree, but what about those people who are voting for them? Why? Are people so disillusioned with the Irish political parties that they have to vote for Libertas? They seem to have differing policies on Abortion, Gay Marriage, and legalisation of drugs across Europe, depending on the populist view in a particular country.

evercloserunion

Populist is a very accurate term. Judging from your location you probably know about the slip-up where we had Libertas in ireland talking about making it harder to migrate within the EU and then Libertas in Poland saying they'd make it easier! It's very hard to know what to make of a party like that.

As for those who voted for them, well as far as I know the only area where they had a sizeable vote in the European elections was Ganley's constitutency in North West. There is something about the people of NW that makes them more prone to vote for outsider candidates; they voted Dana in before as well. Some say it's because they are disconnected and isolated, but it may also be because they are very right-wing socially (Dana and Ganley were both socially conservative). Apart from that, Ganley had just spent many hundreds of thousands building up a massive public profile for himself in the Lisbon and Euro election campaigns. He was associated by many in the media with the No to Lisbon which still would have reflected public opinion at the time to a large extent. Apart from all those factors, it was probably just the fact that he wasn't FF that got him votes. Because it was a European election it wasn't taken as seriously by the voters and votes that would have gone to FG or Labour in a general election went to Ganley as a protest.

I think it's fair to say that Ganley's performance in the Euro elections would not be repeated today. He certainly would not rake in the same amount of votes in a general election.

Euro_Kraut

djsomers wrote: »

I totally agree, but what about those people who are voting for them?

Besides the last Euro Elections people have not yet had the opportunity to vote for them. I do not detect any great mood among the Irish people for a Libertas party. In any case they are not really a party, Libertas is about one individual - Declan Ganley.

He did reasonably well in the European Elections but he had all of County Galway to himself. The other candidates in Leinster and Dublin preformed miserably.

Even in the last Lisbon referendum I got the feeling that Ganley was not the force he once was. The media seemed to have coped on to him. He might try to run for elections in Galway East next time round but I don't fancy his chances (I am from there btw). His own local polling station voted 70% in favour of the Lisbon Treaty. If he can't convince his neighbours on the Lisbon Treaty I cant see him winning a seat in a constituency that is very very slow to elected a non-FG/FF candidate.

There was an IND elected in 2002 but he was a former FF councilor. Beside that I think it may be 40 years since thye elected a TD how was not from FF or FG.

MikeC101

evercloserunion wrote: »

They have never really been forthcoming about what their policies are but what evidence there is points to a very right-wing party. Libertas so far have shown themselves to be socially conservative and libertarian economically. I wrote about it on another site http://www.politics.ie/blogs/evercloserunion/129-finally-hint-libertas-policy-direction.html

I would never vote for them. I completely disagree with (what would probably be) their economic and social policies, but much more than that, I think they are the most dishonest party ever in Irish politics. They told a large amount of blatant lies, as well as disseminating inaccurate and misleading information. They also tend to rely hevaily on ad hominem arguments and other disingenuous tactics to discredit their opponents and push their agenda.

Pretty much my reasons I wouldn't vote for Libertas, except that the libertarian economics wouldn't put me off, depending on what exactly it was. The lack of honesty from the party - particularly the lies and posters used in their No campagin would put me off hugely even if they did reflect my own outlook (which given their propensity to change their policies depending on what looks like it'd get the most votes could probably happen).

serfboard

evercloserunion wrote: »

Because it was a European election it wasn't taken as seriously by the voters and votes that would have gone to FG or Labour in a general election went to Ganley as a protest.

I think it's fair to say that Ganley's performance in the Euro elections would not be repeated today. He certainly would not rake in the same amount of votes in a general election.

Agree. There are always howls after referenda from right-wing groups who claim the referendum results as proof of an unrepresented electorate. They then try their hand at Local/National/European elections. Where they usually fail - particularly at National elections.

Dana and Ganley are perfect examples. Dana was elected as MEP, and ran in the general election in Galway and was soundly beaten. She was not subsequently re-elected as an MEP. Ganley didn't even do that well, missing out in the European elections and he says he will not run in the general election - "because after Lisbon, national parliaments are glorified county councils" (or words to that effect). Translation: I wouldn't stand a chance.

djsomers

I am glad that the consensous is against Libertas. I do hope we've seen the last of them in Ireland, but you never know with disgruntled Irish voters. There are signs, finally, of voter political maturity away from FF and FG; and the rhetoric of voters being for one or the other because of their "ties", etc. Ireland was really a product of its past and the inacurate depiction of it in people's minds. There is now a feeling of change, but, only brought about by anger and frustration, I hope voter angst is the catalyst for tangible change.

mikemac

Can't stand negative politics, I realy have no time for it.

I engaged with several canvessers at the local elections, I'm open to anyone
Tell me what you plan to do, what are your new ideas?
Don't tell me what you oppose, tell me what you will do

I remember the Libertas posters
"Had enough of that shower?"

Yep, that realy told me a lot of why that candidate was standing

mikemac

serfboard wrote: »

Dana and Ganley are perfect examples. Dana was elected as MEP, and ran in the general election in Galway and was soundly beaten.

Ah Dana, I was in Galway at the time.
Announced that she was a candidate very, very late in the whole process.
She was canvassing West Galway. Asked to name five estates in Knocknacarra, there are over fifty. And she had had spent a lot of time in the area so no excuse, she should have known!

Nope, on local radio she could not name just five estates that she wanted to represent. It wasn't the reason she lost but it certainly didn't help and got a lot of attention in the local papers

Sorry, offtopic post

Lockstep

West of Ireland voter here (Was living in Connemara until I moved to Belgium)

Ganley was a huge force out in the west; he'd go around Galway city with a massive crowd of supporters in Libertas hats and shirts (everything from kids to pretty young girls to burly young lads to elderly people), one of his supporters asked me to vote for him and gave me a leaflet. I asked what was he going to to do for the west and was told " a lot more than the current shower" when I asked for more detail I was led through the heavies up to meet the man himself.
Very cold man, very cold eyes and leans in very close to talk to you.
My questions;
Q;What will you do for the west of Ireland, given the lack of jobs here
A:His reply was very long winded but he kept mentioning fishing and his friends in the video games industry in the States.
Q:What exactly are Libertas' policies as I checked the website and it just says they'll be up soon
A: when did you last check it?
Me; umm...two days ago?
Him; CHeck again as they've been put up since then (obviously they weren't)
Q; where will Libertas sit in the European Parliment if you get elected (Social democrats, liberals etc)
A; Oh we'll get enough people elected to form our own voting group
Q; what's the story with the blue card system?
A; One of our representatives got told his mother died (or something) while on air so mixed up what he was trying to say
I assure you that the above is what I remember (unless my mind is playing tricks on me or something)

Basically, he was very evasive about actual policies and seemed to go into a tirade against the current parties we have. I was extremely unimpressed.

What surprised me about Libertas was their voting base. I was canvassing in Galway city (no Labour candidate in Connemara) and was surpised by the people who said they were voting Libertas. Not in working class areas like the Claddagh but I found his most die-hard supporters going to mass in the middle-class Knocknacarra and the extremely affluent Salthill (Galway's equivalent of Dublin 4), and they're reasons for voting for him were nearly all the same; aversion to foreigners. My favorite were the middle aged couple in the Salthill beachfront mansion who went on a tirade about Europe bringing in baby-killers and immigrants (the man said that his night in town was ruined as he had to wait 3 hours to find a white taxi driver...) My own empirical/anecdotal evidence seemed that the typical Libertas voter was conservative (extremely Catholic when it came to moral issues but not social issues) and middle class.

And therein lies my problems with Libertas; outright populism (as west of Ireland voters tend to be fairly wary of immigrants) combined with an aversion to genuine policies, equivocal answers, slating of every other party possible and a fairly dodgy mindset (calling for transparency while being shifty with where their own funding came from)

Het-Field

I wouldnt.

They were an astroturf movement, who accepted every tosspot, and political has-been, and reject into their ranks. The likes of Raymond O Malley, and James Reynolds etc are enough to highlight the type of movement Libertas were.

Ganely hedged his bets by siding with the Catholic Right. The lunatic fringe of the right has been shelved again in the wake of the acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty. They may try to form a party, but in spite of its ability to attract funds, they doont ahve the personel, or the organisational skills, beyond the erection of posters, and the dropping of leaflets.

They have no proper policy document, they have never articulated much beyond an aversion to the EU under Lisbon. As such, they are not a proper political movement.

Shane-1

I think there is an allure to Ganley himself, almost like a leadership cult or something, he seems to have a sort of aura that draws people in! I know a fella down home that has been Fine Gael all his life, Ganley comes to our home town, yer man meets him and speaks to him for all of about 5 minutes, and that evening, that very evening there is yer man parading the town wearing his Libertas t shirt handing out leaflets for Ganleys European election campaign!!

I saw Ganley speak in UCD for the second Lisbon vote and he is a captivating public speaker, my politics probably couldnt be farther from Ganleys yet I was pulled right into his speech!

Reminds me of that Simpsons episode, we LOVE the Leader....

Lockstep

I always had a vested interest in him getting elected; he gave me a copy of his book so I always figured it'd be worth a bomb if he became a euro-dictator and was subsequently deposed.

ednwireland

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I always had a vested interest in him getting elected; he gave me a copy of his book so I always figured it'd be worth a bomb if he became a euro-dictator and was subsequently deposed.

seems an even more flimsy pension fund than my one of winning the lotto

Lockstep

I can dream
Would've been my consolation prize if Ganley ever got on.

Then again, my entire voting strategy for the European Elections was how to keep Ganley out (Yes, I gave a high preference to Fianna Fail)

evercloserunion

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I can dream
Would've been my consolation prize if Ganley ever got on.

Then again, my entire voting strategy for the European Elections was how to keep Ganley out (Yes, I gave a high preference to Fianna Fail)

Ditto (well, Raymond O'Malley instead of Ganley).

Funglegunk

I notice that the chorus of Ganley supporters seems to have disappeared from boards altogether...

Lockstep

Yeah, there was a load of them around allright but they've all disappeared.


Probably at the Christian Solidarity Party Ard Fheis

MikeC101

Funglegunk wrote: »

I notice that the chorus of Ganley supporters seems to have disappeared from boards altogether...

A more cynical person than I might even think it's as if they were paid shills.

Oh wait, no, that's pretty much what I suspect.

ei.sdraob

kickoutthejams wrote: »

when I asked for more detail

very similar to my experience, the man couldnt answer any simple question (and yes i know politicians are good at avoiding questions but if you press them hard enough they have no choice but to answer or look the fool ), and a very unpleasant vibe of him

since them i found out so much dirt about them, that the fact that some people even thing about this crowd is disturbing, must be some sort of psychological thing, anyways i see no one "goodwinised" the thread yet