Graphic Artifacts Issue

DECEiFER

Hi folks,

I really do need some help here, I'm struggling to find a solution on my own. It's a very long post, so I do appreciate any time you can spare to offer up some help.

I am having a problem with my PC, possibly a Graphics Card fault. I did forward a very descriptive report of what was happening to the seller (Komplett.ie) where I bought my card in October 2008.

I'll post my emails to Komplett so to clue you in on the problem:

Hi,

I'm ####### (a/c no. #######). I bought a set of parts from you a year ago to build my own PC. In the last few months, I've noticed incidents of the Windows GUI going all crazy and, sometimes showing extra pixels. Nevertheless, it becomes unusable and a restart becomes necessary. After a reboot, there will be several blue pixels all over the screen on top of the memory test and hard drive seeking boot area. After a few minutes rest with the PSU switched off, it does go away, until next time it happens all over again.

Here is the exact product:
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=368358

I'm not an expert, but I would have thought such a problem could be down to bad memory on the graphics card?

I was hoping that the problem was temporary because it did happen a few times a week, and after installing a new OS, it appeared to be fine. For the last month or so everything's been indeed that, fine. But just now it has happened again, and I'm doubting the problem is with the drivers or the OS. I had considered RMA'ing it before, my only problem was that I need my PC every day and I do not have a spare PCI-E graphics card lying around or an on-board controller on my motherboard. That problem still exists now, but I would still like to know if I'd be able to RMA it? If so, what do I do, and how long before a replacement is delivered?


Many thanks.

Now, a second follow-up email:

Hi again,

I'd like to add something for you to reference this problem.

Since I didn't take a picture of the problem (I know, I should have), I'd like to send you something I came across whilst researching VRAM issues.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/artifa...ardmemory3.gif

Imagine those pixels, the EXACT same shape and frequency, only blue, and on the boot screen before Windows even begins to load.

The problem always seems to begin in Windows, though, but I'd still argue that the drivers are not at fault as it will continue on reboot as I've already said.

Imagine this:
http://www.playtool.com/pages/artifacts/badgpu.jpg

This is how Windows can look when the problem occurs, the only difference between the screenshot there and my problem is that it's mostly out on the Windows GUI (but not always). After a reboot, that's when I see the blue pixels. Once the computer is rested with the PSU off or plug out for a few moments, it's fine again until the next time it happens. I'm not doing anything in particular at the time of each flair up, I could be out in Windows listening to music or inside a game, just like that screenshot. It's even happened inside of Photoshop on one occasion.

Here is a screenshot of my temperature stats on idle from right this moment:
http://imagestack.deceifermedia.com/...1/gfx-temp.png

As you can see, everything is fine. It's running very cool. It will never hop above 60 degrees when playing games, either.


One last thing. I had considered the possibility of the motherboard being at fault. It is a MSI P43 Neo I got from you guys, also. But things like bad system memory symptoms do not occur. No errors when installing Windows, no frequent crashes, or BSoD's. I haven't seen a BSoD in many months and whenever I did, it was a once off for a long period. I've been through many OS's from XP to Vista to 7, and the graphics problem has occurred at least once on each. With every OS, there is a new display driver downloaded from ATI and installed, and I always update on a monthly basis anyhow when ATI release a new version (with Driver Cleaner .NET, Driver Sweeper, and some CCleaner paving the way for a clean installation).

I think I've covered everything, but if you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask. So, that all in mind, I go back to my original questions (with one further one):

1. Can I RMA it?
2. If so, how long will it take for a replacement to be sent?
3. Would I get the same model? I like having the Golden Sample by Gainward, as it's overclocked out-of-the box and there's more performance in it. If not, would I be given an opportunity to choose something of equal value to my purchase price in October 2008?


Many thanks again.

After all those emails, all I got back from Komplett was, "RMA Requested". I'm not sure if the information I provided prompted the request, or if it's just policy to request an RMA with every report, even those offering very little information.

But, as you can see, the problem is not always there. It occurs on occasions, but I'm afraid it's going to get progressively worse over time, and finally go kaput once it's out of warranty.

Since writing those emails, the problem occurred again on Saturday (nearly two weeks later):

After Windows started showing repetition of text and pixels on Pingtest.net and text in the Command Prompt and random multi-colored pixels in Notepad upon scrolling (it all was contained within the windows in question), I did a reboot and took a picture with my phone. I should have taken pictures in Windows before rebooting, but I panicked and just rebooted as quickly as possible.

http://imagestack.deceifermedia.com/images/1/DSC02320.JPG


The problem resolved itself again by my turning off the PC and removing the AC cable from my PSU for a moment.


The big questions:

1. Do you think it could be a VRAM issue?
2. Could it be my monitor? (LG Flatron L1917S - using the stock VGA to DVI converter socket into the card)
3. How about the Motherboard? (MSI P43 Neo-F - MS-7519)


I have RMA'ed the item back to Komplett.ie, and they are currently testing it since this morning. They are running multiple instances of 3DMark, ATITool, and rthdribl.exe. So far there have been no artifacts found. The problem occurs so scarcely that they probably won't find anything by tomorrow. Hell, it might not even be the graphics card! Even my efforts to provoke it into artifacting won't work. It's mostly always at a time when it's least expected and when everything is idle.


I also performed a stress test on the key hardware using Everest Ultimate 5.01 for 32 minutes last week. I will post a screenshot of the statistics, including temperatures, fan speeds, and voltages:

http://imagestack.deceifermedia.com/images/1/Everest-Stats.png


Any help/insight is appreciated,
Many thanks.

cherryghost

not entirely convinced its the graphics card to be honest. that MSI P43 motherboard caused me a world of pain. I had the same problem as you, but only for about 10 minutes before the pc refused to boot up. I sent it away and got it back, and the same thing happened after a few hours run time.

So i sent it away and they replaced it for another MSI P43. Again the same thing. Decided to crash on me every time i tried to install the damn OS. eventually I gave up on it and bought a Gigabyte one and have had little/no hassle with it whatsoever.

And FYI, the MSI board was also purchased from Komplett. Coincidence? Dont think so.

Anti

Well, we know its not the graphics card thats playing up Unless it dies over night.

DECEiFER

cherryghost wrote: »

not entirely convinced its the graphics card to be honest. that MSI P43 motherboard caused me a world of pain. I had the same problem as you, but only for about 10 minutes before the pc refused to boot up. I sent it away and got it back, and the same thing happened after a few hours run time.

So i sent it away and they replaced it for another MSI P43. Again the same thing. Decided to crash on me every time i tried to install the damn OS. eventually I gave up on it and bought a Gigabyte one and have had little/no hassle with it whatsoever.

And FYI, the MSI board was also purchased from Komplett. Coincidence? Dont think so.

I find it odd about MSI. I was never happy with the board. I notice that in Vista and 7, my IDE HDD's lag or spin down and take about 5 or so seconds to begin reading at times. It never happened when I used the board on XP. I have never figured it out. I have a 1TB Samsung F1 Spinpoint SATA II drive and 2 x WD Caviar 500GB IDE drives for movie and music storage only. I guessed that it might be down to bad drivers on MSI's part. They also have a DPC Latency spike issue, but the recent August release BIOS has solved it for me. MSI forums have posts about others experiencing DPC Latency spike issue on this board and some P45s.

Listen, they can barely speak English! There's even grammatical mistakes in their user manuals. I was thinking of buying a cheap €70 Asus PQ5 SE2, but I do want to be sure that the MSI board is causing the problem. I have been told that if the board was the problem, I'd experience system hangs and if the RAM was the problem, I'd experience BSoDs.

I haven't yet come across any odd behavior aside from the infrequent graphical artifacts, even the problems that you described, cherryghost, I haven't come across. OSs install fine always, with no hassle to speak of. Still, it's a problem that I'd like to get sorted sooner rather than later. I just wish I knew where to begin.

cherryghost

if you have some spare hardware bits, you could start switching them around til you see something change?

on the software side, you could do a number of CPU/RAM/GPU/HD stress tests and see if you notice anything peculiar. to me it does seem like another semi-bricked MSI P43. there seems to be a lot more issues with this particular board over other budget P43 motherboards when you google it

DECEiFER

cherryghost wrote: »

if you have some spare hardware bits, you could start switching them around til you see something change?

on the software side, you could do a number of CPU/RAM/GPU/HD stress tests and see if you notice anything peculiar. to me it does seem like another semi-bricked MSI P43. there seems to be a lot more issues with this particular board over other budget P43 motherboards when you google it

I haven't anything going spare at the moment. I am using a friend's 4650 while mine is "in the shop". And the artifacts occurred so seldom that you'd be waiting days or weeks for it to occur again. But it's still a worry. Why? That's the big one. I think I'll look to find something that'll stress the motherboard and assess its performance, where it'll target the motherboard more specifically than anything else.

Any recommendations for software that can do that?

cherryghost

I recommend the Passmark BurnIn program, it'll put literally every component in your pc under the test

http://www.passmark.com/download/bit_download.htm

DECEiFER

cherryghost wrote: »

I recommend the Passmark BurnIn program, it'll put literally every component in your pc under the test

http://www.passmark.com/download/bit_download.htm

I'll give that a go, thanks.

If nothing comes of it, I'll still consider the Asus P5Q SE2, unless someone has something negative to say about it? There are no reviews that I can find, only the Deluxe version, which I cannot afford anytime soon. I'd also like to hear more thoughts on the MSI P43 Neo-F if at all possible, whether anyone else can agree with cherryghost? Being poor sucks.

DECEiFER

The results after 3 1/2 hours of testing:
(nothing major wrong that I can see, 1 error found in the sound test)

PassMark BurnInTest Log file - http://www.passmark.com
========================================================

BurnInTest V5.3 Pro 1019
Logging detail level: Normal

******************
SYSTEM INFORMATION
******************
Computer Name: DECEIFER-MEDIA

Date: 10/22/09 00:09:56
Operating system: Windows Vista Ultimate Edition build 7600
Number of CPUs: 1 (2 Core(s)/CPU, 1 Logical(s)/Core)
CPU manufacturer: GenuineIntel
CPU type: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
CPU features: MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 DEP PAE
CPU1 speed: 3008.7 MHz
CPU L2 Cache: 6 MB
RAM: 3327 MB
Video card: RDPDD Chained DD (Resolution: 1280x1024x32)
Disk drive: Model SAMSUNG HD103UJ (Size: 931.5GB)
Disk drive: Model WDC WD5000AAKB-00YSA0 ATA Device (Size: 465.8GB)
Disk drive: Model WDC WD5000AAKB-00YSA0 ATA Device (Size: 465.8GB)
Optical drive: ZIVW 74L2NO9IN49M SCSI CdRom Device
Optical drive: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH20NS10


**************
RESULT SUMMARY
**************
Test Start time: Wed Oct 21 20:28:21 2009
Test Stop time: Thu Oct 22 00:07:58 2009
Test Duration: 003h 39m 37s

Test Name Cycles Operations Result Errors Last Error
CPU - Maths 3597 2.297 Trillion PASS 0 No errors
CPU - SIMD 4562 4.469 Trillion PASS 0 No errors
Memory (RAM) 4 8.603 Billion PASS 0 No errors
2D Graphics 100 100946 PASS 0 No errors
3D Graphics 32 65349 PASS 0 No errors
Sound 26 89.082 Million FAIL 1 No operations reported in timeout period
Network 1 171241 1.370 Billion PASS 0 No errors
TEST RUN FAILED

******************
DETAILED EVENT LOG
******************
LOG NOTE: 2009-10-21 20:28:22, Status, Main Tests started
LOG NOTE: 2009-10-21 20:28:23, 3D Graphics, 3D test starting: Duty cycle = 100. Test on primary monitor (0). (x,y) = (310,0). WxH = 300x200.
WARNING : 2009-10-21 22:20:22, Sound, No operations reported in timeout period
LOG NOTE: 2009-10-22 00:08:01, Status, Test run stopped

Also:






I will begin to run memtest86+ tonight before I hit the sack and I will report back with the findings tomorrow.

DECEiFER

memtest86+ findings:






It's saying that my chipset is a P45/G45. I've never seen any program get it wrong before. Odd.


My card has finally been stressed for 24 hours at Komplett with no artifacts found. It'll be sent back to me. It's back to square one again. I'm inclined to even wait until the problem occurs again before I buy a new motherboard. If it doesn't happen again, I'll stick with the MSI for a while. We'll see how it goes.


But if anyone has any insight to offer, please don't be shy.

cherryghost

interesting results. let us know if something crops up again!

game4it70

This image http://imagestack.deceifermedia.com/...1/DSC02320.JPG imo almost deffo says its harware issue not software.

So some silly questons:o
Have you tried flashing mobo bios or messing about with bios settings.
Tried using a different pci-e connection from PSU or molex to pci-e adapter.

Sorry for not having any good ideas but you have me scratching my head on this one.

DECEiFER

game4it70 wrote: »

This image http://imagestack.deceifermedia.com/...1/DSC02320.JPG imo almost deffo says its harware issue not software.

So some silly questons:o
Have you tried flashing mobo bios or messing about with bios settings.
Tried using a different pci-e connection from PSU or molex to pci-e adapter.

Sorry for not having any good ideas but you have me scratching my head on this one.

Flashed Motherboard from 1.9 to 1.A, latest release (stamped August 2008) less than two weeks ago. This was to resolve a DPC Latency spiking issue, and it did resolve that.

I did switch PSU connections, as I have two 8-pin PCI-E connectors on my PSU (Corsair TX650W). I also used the other DVI output to plug my monitor in (my LCD is VGA only so I use the supplied DVI to VGA connector).


I'd agree that it's hardware alright, as that screenshot clearly shows it happening before the Windows drivers are loaded for pretty much everything. But what piece of hardware is it? That's the question. I'm going to be receiving my card back on Monday or Tuesday next week, most likely. I'll give it another go and hopefully it won't happen again. If it does, then I'll start by getting a new motherboard (still have my eyes on the P5Q SE2).

Don't worry about not having ideas. I should have some myself, but I don't, and nobody can be blamed as this is one strange problem.


Thanks for the post.