who should replace Rafa?

whatawaster

The Muppet wrote: »

My Bad, it's only fair to judge this season really as players need time to settle.

I'm not going into the figures here (wrong thread), There's little difference between Rafa and Mon Budgets.

fair enough, but imo 7m a year is a fair difference, but it's the difference in judgement and expectation between the two that really annoys me

daveyboy_1ie

whatawaster wrote: »

because we had such a weak, thin squad and limited resources that he was forced to take punts on players he wasn’t sure about.

Sorry, I can't let that one go. Houllier spent almost as much money as Rafa has in the same amount of time and was probably just as succesful with his treble year. Benitez put out his own team in the CL final against Milan (first one) and his team were 3-0 down, he replaced them with players Houllier had bought and we all know what happened there. They were NOT a weak team when he took over, but apparantly a team with lots of potential which he was the man to bring them on and finally get one over the United voodoo which affected Houllier so much.

This myth he inherited a weak team is made to fit your own agenda, he did not and although I think the pressure he seems under now is absurd, he has brought an awful lot on himself.

Kess73

Myself and Karma.



Failing that Jose and I.

The Muppet

whatawaster wrote: »

fair enough, but imo 7m a year is a fair difference, but it's the difference in judgement and expectation between the two that really annoys me

Your Liverpool figures look light to me. but as i said this is not the thread for that,I.ll agree to differ.

I see your point re expectations, a lot of clubs have closed the gap and even surpassed the old reliables regading spending. Thats good for the game IMO. Hopefully it will lead to a more competitive competition for the title. I would like to see it go to the wire every season.

Paleface

This thread seems to have turned into another Rafa bashing one which is not what the OP intended.

Anyway IF Rafa goes which is not necessarily going to happen then the incoming manager is going to have an extremely hard job on his hands. As he'll probably only have 3 seasons of a prime Steven Gerrard in which to deliver a league title that the club craves so much.

Gerard is the talisman of the team and they are really going to struggle to replace him after this as any team would!

So who would come in and deliver in a short space of time?

The obvious choice to me is Mourinho as he has won a league title in his first full season at Porto, Chelsea and Inter. I don't know how easy it would be to acquire him in monetary terms but he has always expressed a desire to return to England. I utimately thought that he was going to end up at United succeeding Ferguson but if Liverpool put a decent proposal in for him then I'm sure they could get him.

Capello is another choice but he's not going anywhere soon I think.

Apart from those you'd like to see a club legend take over but I really don't see anyone that fits the mold.

I've always liked David Moyes but the thought of him leaving Everton to go to Liverpool is just crazy!

Other people have been mentioning Martin Jol and I also rate highly but I'm not so sure if he'd be keen on coming back to England. It didn't exactly end well for him at Spurs.

All this is hypothetical of course. Maybe Benitez will get the team rolling again. It just seems to me that they are gone back to the team they were prior to last season. Capable of good performances on their day but lacking the quality it takes to win the Premiership.

Mr Alan

can we agree that there is no one that is an improvement on Rafa? and the majority of peoples choices are either unavailable, or a huge gamble (Jol, Redknapp etc)

i think i made my point.

Nalz

I don't think Rafa has been awful in the transfer market,

and I'm sure that if he was given the money along with the fact that he would lose his star midfielder and first choice centre halves (Barry, Laursen, Mellberg) he'd be spending more than Martin O Neill.

Marlon Harewood for 4m though, what a waste!

The site is bogey out though (Miller 12m spellcheck??, Dunne was 6m and Young was way more than 5m)

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

can we agree that there is no one that is an improvement on Rafa? and the majority of peoples choices are either unavailable, or a huge gamble (Jol, Redknapp etc)

Exactly, not much out there to be honest!

Mr Alan

our biggest worry should be that Rafa will get pissed off & go to Real in the summer tbh.

therecklessone

The Muppet wrote: »

The OP said years not seasons, You said soccerbase proved me wrong, which it didn't, thats all pretty pedantic TBH.

The Muppet wrote:

Not True, MON had a negative net spend in the 07/08 season.

I responded to that.

Check mate?

The point that was being debated was the comment Re Matin O Neill having a blank check for the last three years which is clearly wrong.

I'm sure Villa fans can fill you in on the extent to which the owner of Villa has always made money available to O'Neill, whether he's spent it or not is another matter.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

our biggest worry should be that Rafa will get pissed off & go to Real in the summer tbh.

Al, you think he'd go there and work under that shower? Never in my life did I enjoy a Milan win more than last night.

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

Al, you think he'd go there and work under that shower? Never in my life did I enjoy a Milan win more than last night.

its no worse than our shower, and Real Madrid are HIS club, and he'd have good money to spend.

The Muppet

therecklessone wrote: »

I responded to that.

Check mate?

.

WOOOH there bosco, Wrong game.

you responded with

Soccerbase proves you wrong

Which it didn't in their 07/08 figures.

Game set and match

Fromvert

therecklessone wrote: »

I responded to that.

Check mate?



I'm sure Villa fans can fill you in on the extent to which the owner of Villa has always made money available to O'Neill, whether he's spent it or not is another matter.

The Muppet wrote: »

WOOOH there bosco, Wrong game.

you responded with



Which it didn't in their 07/08 figures.

Game set and match

Seriously lads give it ****ing rest, both of you are not talking about the topic and one of yous is a mod FFS. PM each other if yous want to be petty. I click in here to see other peoples opinions not both of yous having a tit for tat argument.

therecklessone

Fromvert wrote: »

Seriously lads give it ****ing rest, both of you are not talking about the topic and one of yous is a mod FFS. PM each other if yous want to be petty. I click in here to see other peoples opinions not both of yous having a tit for tat argument.

The points are relevant to the argument raised by Mr Alan re. MON and the counter argument raised by The Muppet. FWIW, I support Alan's contention that O'Neill would be no improvement on Rafa for the top job at Anfield, and that's why I chose to interject.

If you think we are disrupting the thread then raise your objection in the correct manner by reporting the posts, and another mod will review the posts and take action if required (including banning me if needed)

Don't tell other users how to behave on-thread, I don't care if I am an interested party, I will respond to back-seat modding in future.

The Muppet wrote:

Which it didn't in their 07/08 figures.

Game set and match

I'd assumed you were capable of doing a little digging to get at the real picture instead of taking one page at face value, I promise not to make that mistake again.

The Muppet

therecklessone wrote: »

I'd assumed you were capable of doing a little digging to get at the real picture instead of taking one page at face value, I promise not to make that mistake again.

You know me, digging is not my strongest point.:)

we better leave it there the natives are getting restless, serious business this internet.

Helix

Trilla wrote: »

Young was way more than 5m

other young

givyjoe81

Mr Alan wrote: »

its no worse than our shower, and Real Madrid are HIS club, and he'd have good money to spend.

IF Rafa had a problem at Liverpool with not having full control over transfers, then he'll have a caniption at Real. The Manager there is little more than a shadow puppet when its comes to the transfer market, whoever they may be.

kryogen

i honestly never want to see Benitez leave Liverpool, i think you lot should give him a job for life

Keep Rafa In!!!

orourkeda

kryogen wrote: »

i honestly never want to see Benitez leave Liverpool, i think you lot should give him a job for life

Keep Rafa In!!!

Defo. He's doing a fabulous job. He needs to manage Liverpool forever

JPA

Moyes is the perfect Liverpool manager IMO.

rossie1977

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

This myth he inherited a weak team is made to fit your own agenda, he did not and although I think the pressure he seems under now is absurd, he has brought an awful lot on himself.

he inherited a team that finished on 58 points previous 2 seasons, 58 points would have got you 7th place last year

he inherited a team that were well beaten in uefa cup previous 2 seasons by celtic and marseille

ron atkinson spent a ton of money while utd manager, won the fa cup on a number of occasions, started the season winning the first 10 league games in a row the year he was sacked, but not one person will claim alex ferguson inherited a strong team, no he had to build a new team

The Muppet

orourkeda wrote: »

Defo. He's doing a fabulous job. He needs to manage Liverpool forever

I think you may have missed a little something in Kyrogens post. Maybe not.

Boggles

rossie1977 wrote: »

ron atkinson spent a ton of money while utd manager,

Yes, yes he did. He also made a ton of money back though, his net spend was around 1.5 million.

rossie1977 wrote: »

won the fa cup on a number of occasions,

2, he won 2 FA cups. Why couldn't you just say the number? 2?

rossie1977 wrote: »

started the season winning the first 10 league games in a row the year he was sacked,

He blew a 9 point lead and finished 4th, that was the season before he was sacked, what was your point?

SlickRic

JPA wrote: »

Moyes is the perfect Liverpool manager IMO.

i was on the way back on the boat from the Lyon game, and i got talking to an Everton fan. had a chat for a good 30 minutes about all things both clubs. a really reasonable guy, a man who hadn't missed a home Everton game since 2001, and a man who offered me Merseyside derby tickets for November.

so he's definitely a good guy

he, without a hint of irony, said Moyes would be the perfect manager for Liverpool, and i agreed 100%. the man is a genius (ignoring tonight's debacle, but to be fair 11 players were out).

it's a pity that...

1) he's managing who he's managing, and;
2) he's probably been earmarked by Fergie for the Utd job.

JPA

SlickRic wrote: »

i was on the way back on the boat from the Lyon game, and i got talking to an Everton fan. had a chat for a good 30 minutes about all things both clubs. a really reasonable guy, a man who hadn't missed a home Everton game since 2001, and a man who offered me Merseyside derby tickets for November.

so he's definitely a good guy

he, without a hint of irony, said Moyes would be the perfect manager for Liverpool, and i agreed 100%. the man is a genius (ignoring tonight's debacle, but to be fair 11 players were out).

it's a pity that...

1) he's managing who he's managing, and;
2) he's probably been earmarked by Fergie for the Utd job.

Yep, it's hard to see it ever happening in the near or medium future. He would have to have an inbetween job for it to happen and even then it's hard to see where that would be.
I couldn't see him at United as his style wouldn't suit, although with different/better players that could change, hard to predict, and if he didn't go to United he probably couldn't then go to Liverpool.

Mr Alan

Rafa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moyes

kryogen

rossie1977 wrote: »

A.he inherited a team that finished on 58 points previous 2 seasons, 58 points would have got you 7th place last year

B.he inherited a team that were well beaten in uefa cup previous 2 seasons by celtic and marseille

C.ron atkinson spent a ton of money while utd manager, won the fa cup on a number of occasions, started the season winning the first 10 league games in a row the year he was sacked, but not one person will claim alex ferguson inherited a strong team, no he had to build a new team

A. And two years before that they had finished second

B. The team he inherited won the Champions League

C. Ron Atkinson blew a massive lead in the league, its actually how you finish a league campaign that matters, not how you start it

DazMarz

Rafa Benitez should be left where he is. If he leaves, chaos will descend, more than is there at the minute anyway. The worst nightmare for Liverpool has erupted once again: Gerrard and Torres injured, and also just before a clash with Man United. That is not Rafa's fault. He is doing the best job he can, and he should not be sacked.

If, horror of horrors, he is sacked... Who is there to replace him? Realistically, there is a pretty short list of unattached and relatively cheap managers, Martin Jol probably topping that list. (I say rel. cheap, cos Liverpool could not splash out too much on a big-name manager like Special One)

But I think Liverpool need to grit their teeth, plough headfirst forward and pray that Gerrard and Torres get fit soon. Not a helluva lot else they can do, really. Sacking Rafa would be a complete folly that would turn a bad situation worse.

And as for David Moyes... Unless he wants his head cut off by irate Toffees, he'd do well to stay away from Anfield. He could go anywhere else to manage, but if he goes to Anfield... fuhgettaboutit.

Mr Alan

i don't often like agreeing with Boggles, but "the special one" aint won a CL game in his last 8 & struggled in his last couple of seasons at Chelsea (considering he had sucha strong squad & so much $$$). he aint so special anymore.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

i don't often like agreeing with Boggles, but "the special one" aint won a CL game in his last 8 & struggled in his last couple of seasons at Chelsea (considering he had sucha strong squad & so much $$$). he aint so special anymore.

maybe the rest of the world will catch on soon then!

got tired of trying to make the point about him being far from special! not to mention his lack of tactical nous

Mr Alan

Robert Huth up front against us in the CL semi final was a classic genius that lad.

daveyboy_1ie

but not one person will claim alex ferguson inherited a strong team, no he had to build a new team

Nothing wrong with the team he inherited, except they had the wrong culture for Fergie to win the league. That was the team that beat the mighty 'pool team for fun almost every time they played them (how tables have turned, when united's highlight to their season was beating Liverpool and occasional FA Cup win thrown in). But unfortunatly there was more than one alcoholic amongst them and plenty who enjoyed themselves far too much.

So yeah he did completly get rid of that team (only one he really kept and played was Robson) and took Hughes back from Barca. Fergie won nowt with the team he inherited as it took him several years to get his own men in, completly revolutionise the Youth & Academy structure and in the meantime still maintain the high standards of the club he took over. To do this in 4 seasons is simply miraclolous and noone seems to have the courage to call this what it is, a management marvel and will never be repeated again.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moyes

out of curiosity, what makes that so definitive?

rafa did remarkably well at valencia and has been great for us.

moyes has done remarkably well at everton, buying bargain upon bargain, and has an everton team, who were very close to relegation not long before he took over, challenging consistently at the high end of the league.

rafa has proven more than Moyes in terms of trophies, but if Moyes was ever available he would be well worth a go. he has shown he can get the best out of players on a consistent basis.

a top-class mananger.

no way is Rafa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moyes.

Karmafaerie

premierstone wrote: »

And what the fcuk puts Rafa on a higher level than your so called second tier managers?? Im not a Liverpool fan but I would take O'Neill in a hearbeat over Rafa

2 La Liga titles.
1 UEFA Cup.
1 Champions League
1 FA Cup.


?

SlickRic

yeah, i really don't understand people wanting O'Neill over Rafa.

if Rafa left, he'd be an option i'd entertain, but i would never get rid of Rafa in order to get him in.

was MON not being ridiculed for much of the end of last season for Villa's inept run-in?

us football fans have short memories.

Handsome Bob

SlickRic wrote: »

yeah, i really don't understand people wanting O'Neill over Rafa.

if Rafa left, he'd be an option i'd entertain, but i would never get rid of Rafa in order to get him in.

was MON not being ridiculed for much of the end of last season for Villa's inept run-in?

us football fans have short memories.

They want MON because he gives the illusion of quality attacking football. Personally I watch Villa regularly enough (big fan of Young and Agbonlahor) and he doesn't exactly play beautiful flowing football ala Wenger. It's more about long balls than anything else.

iregk

kryogen wrote: »

maybe the rest of the world will catch on soon then!

got tired of trying to make the point about him being far from special! not to mention his lack of tactical nous

Yeah because bad managers with no tactics win 6 league titles of which 4 were in a row in two separate countries. 6 domestic cups, 1 UEFA Cup and 1 Champions League.

UEFA Manager of the year 03 & 04.
World Soccer Mag manager of the year 04 & 05.
FA Manager of the year 05 & 06.
IFFHS World Manager of the year 04 & 05.

Yeah he is clearly rubbish isn't he? Tell me, if a bad manager clearly devoid of any tactical nous can win all that, how come your sitting on boards rather than standing at the top of the football world?

iregk

Mr Alan wrote: »

Robert Huth up front against us in the CL semi final was a classic genius that lad.

Almost as good as Rafa winding up and thus savagely motivating Chelsea's best striker 2 days before a crucial champions league encounter. Tell me how did that one go...

premierstone

Karmafaerie wrote: »

2 La Liga titles.
1 UEFA Cup.
1 Champions League
1 FA Cup.


?

Fine I really hope that list keeps you warm and content at night, as I said I'm not a Liverpool fan and the longer Rafa's reign of terror continues the better as far as i'm concerned.

And personally O'Neills record with Leicster and Celtic and both clubs fortunes before and after O'Neills tenures, marks O'Neill as an equal if not better manager than Rafa and imo better.

SlickRic

premierstone wrote: »

And personally O'Neills record with Leicster and Celtic and both clubs fortunes before and after O'Neills tenures, marks O'Neill as an equal if not better manager than Rafa and imo better.

i'm sorry, Rafa's success with us and Valencia mark him as a far more proven winner than O'Neill.

imo of course.

o'neill did wonderfully at Leicester and won a two-team league very frequently, with pretty much the greatest player to play in the Scottish League playing in his prime in Larsson.

that doesn't belittle what were great achievements with Celtic, but it's easier to be successful up there than La Liga or the Premier League.

at the very very best, you might be able to argue that they are equal. but for me, that's greatly pushing it going on their respective records.

Mr Alan

premierstone wrote: »

And personally O'Neills record with Leicster and Celtic and both clubs fortunes before and after O'Neills tenures, marks O'Neill as an equal if not better manager than Rafa and imo better.

it is worth pointing out that you are a Celtic fan.

were Celtic not more successful under Strachan than O'Neill?

to suggest that O'Neills record at Leicster & Celtic trumps Rafas at Valencia & Liverpool is truely truely truely truely laughable.

---

and SlickRic, the reason i think Moyes is not in Rafas league is simply that Rafa has proven ability at the top level. something Moyes does not have. until moyes wins trophies & competes in Europe, he cant be compared to the top managers around.

builttospill

You can't really compare O'Neill and Rafa cos O'Neill hasn't managed a massive club...Yet. (and please-I don't want to hear Celtic fans saying Celtic are massive cos they're not in terms of excellence)

However, I think O'Neill is a better manager. So far he has done well with limited teams. If he was to walk into a big club like Liverpool or United then I reckon he would be great cos these clubs will always be doing ok anyway and he would give them that extra push as he's a great motivator. Think about it-if fcuking Stan became manager of Liverpool and they had no injuries worries they would probably still be pushing for the top 4.

O'Neill is now ready to manage on the biggest stage and considering his track record I reckon he would be an unbelievable asset to a world class team.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

and SlickRic, the reason i think Moyes is not in Rafas league is simply that Rafa has proven ability at the top level. something Moyes does not have. until moyes wins trophies & competes in Europe, he cant be compared to the top managers around.

while i kind of agree with that, i believe moyes has proven in his handling of Everton that he is on the cusp of the very top level of management.

he will be given a chance at a top, top club at some point; if he doesn't turn Everton into one in the meantime (you never know....)

Headshot

hands off moyes

I want him as the next utd manager

Mr Alan

how'd Dignity Dave get on last night?

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

how'd Dignity Dave get on last night?

I presume you mean moyes ?

TBF everton have an injury crisis

Mr Alan

tbf.....

Torres,Gerrard,Aquilani,Johnson?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

tbf.....

Torres,Gerrard,Aquilani,Johnson?

Ye were at home Al.

Chin up though, you might meet the toffees in the next round of it.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

tbf.....

Torres,Gerrard,Aquilani,Johnson?

ye have better back up players than everton.