Protest against trade union action

Taxipete29

mikemac wrote: »

Giving agreed wage increases to staff below management level.
Your average bank cashier is about as responsible for the current mess as a public service clerical officer.

Look you cant have it both ways. If its cuts for the public sector then private companies being kept afloat by the state cant pay these increases. The actual % of people in the state responsible for the mess is tiny, but we all have to share the burden. How does paying increases to any staff member in a company that would fold in the morning if it wasnt for the Government help solve our problem?? Its a joke

mikemac

I don't get dragged into the whole public vs private debate

If you are a bank cashier and want your agreed pay rise, fight for it
And if you are a clerical officer and feel hard done by, again fight for it
And if you feel you don't have a valid case, get on with your job and bring it up another time in the future

But either way don't look across at other sectors and say I want this % as they got it, boo hoo

Mal-Adjusted

Koloman wrote: »

Yep! Your right! This is one BIG LAUGH, isn't it! Let's all have a big chuckle at the 400,000 who are unemployed! It's a great bit of gas when you can't pay your mortgage!

Public sector workers don't have to worry about this as they are guaranteed a job and have very little chance of getting the sack.

They could at least appear to be a bit more humble in this economic crisis and to not threaten the country with ruin with a series of strikes.

well, if you want to mock the unemployed, go right ahead. i'm not sure what exactly you plan to get from it, but, you know... whatever rocks your boat:D. if you want to be taken seriously, please state something other than innacurate analogies and the prevoisly mentioned generic soundbites

lmimmfn

i would protest against this no problem, but it would have to be at the weekend, unlike the public sector some of us actually have to work and cant take a random day off

Go ahead public sector, strike, in fact have loads of them it'll only make your situation worse.

ghost_ie

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Fcuk the trade unions........I've seen enough on how much they earn compared to other countries in Europe.

There has to be cuts, that's a fact. We're losing jobs, also a fact.

Most people would kill for a job in the public sector doing the "work" they do.

My uncle is a public sector worker and does SFA.

I know some public sector workers work hard, I'm sure lots do, but it's a sweet number for most.

I hope the government deals with this in the correct way and if they do I'll vote for them again.

Any public sector worker I know - nurses, fire brigade personnel, health care assistants, gardai - work extremely hard.

thebman

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You didn't mention the bankers, politicians and property developers who holed the ship...presumably they're already in the lifeboats?

They are all irrelevant really as the public sector wage bill is too high regardless of any other factors when you look at the government budget.

Even if you ignore NAMA and the bail out of banks etc... the budget would be nowhere near balanced and massive cuts would still be needed.

mise_me_fein

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Are there any public sector workers really earning more due to the deflation of prices(even if you don't take a paycut, you're wage is worth more this year than last)?

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

It's easy to say nurses, gardai, firemen all work had. I'm sure most do. Have we proof of this. I mean, just say FOR EXAMPLE, they work bad...will they get sacked........ARE THERE ANY BAD TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOLS FOR YEARS UPON END......HMMMM....STILL THEY ONLY HAVE THE STUDENT AROUND 8 MONTHS OF THE YEAR, CANT TEACH THE OTHER 3 OR 4 AS THEY DONT WORK.


Come on, public sector wages in Ireland are higher than nearly all of the other EU states....

This needs a reality check.

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?...Sweet Fcuk all.......yes, these are the guys that created a lot of the jobs for others that pays for the taxes that pays for Public Sector Pensions.
All risk and great rewards but no safety net......wonder when they'll start striking...

From what I've read here, I doubt the PS will get much support on this from the rest of the country.

cyclopath2001

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Yes.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Yes.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

Yes, the national pension fund has been raided to bail out the banks & the government has cut their pay.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?

NAMA

Darragh29

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Workers vs Workers. Just what the government and corporations want. If the little guys are fighting each other, they wont be fighting us. Game over.
I do hope for the sake of this country that you have no position of power, influence or authority otherwise I do despair for our future.

Exactly, once we are all pitched against each other, then we'll never take up the cudgel to the real cause of all our woes which is an utterly incompetent government.

As for the OP, you should be out campaiging for compulsory union recognition in your private sector workplace. Who is representing you, the majority worker, in the partnership process??? NOBODY!!!

The reason we have such a gap between terms & conditions of public -vs- private sector workers is because public sector workers are represented by unions and private sector workers are not. When all this is being hammered out up in government buildings once a year, there is nobody there pushing for your agenda and there is nobody there pushing for the majority of workers in this country. In this context, minority vested interests have managed to have their own agenda's pushed far far ahead of what would be considered to be reasonable in the common good, and now that we have to take back that which has been given, we have a major problem on our hands.

gurramok

Re:Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year??

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Yes.

Where? Temps don't count.

Taxipete29

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Are there any public sector workers really earning more due to the deflation of prices(even if you don't take a paycut, you're wage is worth more this year than last)?

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

It's easy to say nurses, gardai, firemen all work had. I'm sure most do. Have we proof of this. I mean, just say FOR EXAMPLE, they work bad...will they get sacked........ARE THERE ANY BAD TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOLS FOR YEARS UPON END......HMMMM....STILL THEY ONLY HAVE THE STUDENT AROUND 8 MONTHS OF THE YEAR, CANT TEACH THE OTHER 3 OR 4 AS THEY DONT WORK.


Come on, public sector wages in Ireland are higher than nearly all of the other EU states....

This needs a reality check.

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?...Sweet Fcuk all.......yes, these are the guys that created a lot of the jobs for others that pays for the taxes that pays for Public Sector Pensions.
All risk and great rewards but no safety net......wonder when they'll start striking...

From what I've read here, I doubt the PS will get much support on this from the rest of the country.

Your argument falls down as soon as you say look what happened to us, it has to happen to them.

The reason the PS has to take a pay cut is that the Government hasnt got the money to pay them. Its that simple. When you start talking about wages in other countries you dilute your argument. People in the private sector here also earn way more than their counterparts around the world and will continue to do so after taking their share of the cuts.

If people felt that strongly about PS pay they wouldnt of voted back in the Government who created this monster through the disgraceful policy of benchmarking. The PS didnt vote FF in by themselves. You reap what you sow in my opinion.

The Government allowed the unions to gain their power base by consistently giving into demands made under the threat of strike. Again you reap what you sow. None of this is new, so again I ask why did people vote in FF if they didnt like what was happening?? Why? because they were creaming it in the private sector and didnt care.

dgently

Read the thread title.

The idea is not to protest against the public sector.

The idea is to protest against the union-led action.

Unions say they represent their membership. Their membership is in both the private and public sector, but their relevance in the private sector is restricted to a small number of large corporates and semi-states.

In the public sector, they rule. In fairness, they've done well (short term) by their membership, but at a terrible cost to the country.

When their leaders bleat about the Governments mismanagement of the economy, they conveniently overlook the fact that the Unions have used their seat at the "Social Partnership" table to ruthlessly and recklessly enrich their membership in a manner that was never sustainable. The numbers speak for themselves. They are enemies of the State.

The Government made many mistakes during the boom. Failing to rein in the unions was one of the most serious.

A counter-protest is a wonderful idea. There are many many people in the Public sector who see the union leadership for what it is.

THis is not Public Sector versus Private Sector. This is not workers vs employers, or citizens vs the Government.

This is Irish Democracy and self-determination vs The Unions

Light the tar barrel, design a .pdf car sticker, write an anthem & I'll be there ;-)

ardmacha

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

No, because the population want their services, without paying for them. If the schools or hospitals only operated for 3 days a week then there would be outrage on boards.

Schrodingercat

Taxipete29 wrote: »

If people felt that strongly about PS pay they wouldnt of voted back in the Government who created this monster through the disgraceful policy of benchmarking. The PS didnt vote FF in by themselves. You reap what you sow in my opinion.

Would a government containing the labour party, who are part funded by unions , have been more likely to stand up to PS unions? The only ones likely to stand up to them were the PD's and we don't want to go down that road again.

And a lot of PS workers agree about Unions being a bit unreasonable as well I'm sure.

NewDubliner

dgently wrote: »

This is Irish Democracy and self-determination vs The Unions

The irony of it, unions are a democratic institution. So too are the powerful banks and property owners with whom you've decided to align yourself.

If you're going to sup with the devil, bring a long spoon.

Sandwich

Thank you dgently. Someone understood my post - unlike the knee jerk reactions arguing points being well aired elsewhere.

skearon

doc_17 wrote: »

The people slagging off the public sector should bear in mind that public servants have already taken 2 pay cuts in the past year. If we get hit a third time while non-residents (purely for tax purposes) are strolling round I'll go mental. Anyone calling for my pay to be cut again is naive if they believe I'll take it lying down.

The deluded members of the public service slagging off the private sector should bear in mind the 100% pay cut 250,000+ private sector people have suffered due to them losing their jobs, not to mention the rest of us paying more tax to pay their wages and huge defined benefit pensions

skearon

Rob67 wrote: »

How original, another anti public sector thread.

Translation - another common sense thread

Taxipete29

Schrodingercat wrote: »

Would a government containing the labour party, who are part funded by unions , have been more likely to stand up to PS unions? The only ones likely to stand up to them were the PD's and we don't want to go down that road again.

And a lot of PS workers agree about Unions being a bit unreasonable as well I'm sure.

The PDs were in Government when FF gave away the store with benchmarking.
I think Labour would be more engaged with the unions and would ultimatly arrive at the cuts needed. FF created the monster that are the PS unions by giving in time after time. Now when they need to get tough is it any wonder the unions are fighting back.

If some PS workers feel the unions are unreasonable, where are they?? I dont see them coming out and saying so or standing up to the unions which are supposed to be representing the workers and not pushing their own agenda which i feel is what is really going on here.

The problem is not the public sector workers, its not their unions, its the guys who are running the unions. These people talk about the Government being disengaged from real people yet they earn huge salaries on the back of workers dues. The unions need to reform themselves. They need proper leadership to stop sending down a path which has only one end.

thebman

ardmacha wrote: »

No, because the population want their services, without paying for them. If the schools or hospitals only operated for 3 days a week then there would be outrage on boards.

Judging from many posters here this is all the public sector does but there seems to be many people employed in other areas.

I think I'll just assume these are all redundant positions or maybe people could stop trying to use schools and hospitals as an attempt to protect themselves from pay cuts that have to come.

johnnyskeleton

1. I think public sector workers are just as entitled to strike as any other worker. After all, forcing someone to work is slavery, even if it is well rewarded.

2. I also think that if public sectors are entitled to strike, the government is just as entitled to shut up shop on the various vanity projects and quangoes that don't really provide good service.

3. When the Civil Service Telephone Sanitisers Union withdraws all their work and the world still keeps going, then they shouldn't be re-hired.

4. The people that the State really needs e.g. gardai, prison officers, revenue etc will be kept on, but should be informed that there are other people competing for their jobs. Therefore, as the government is required to get value for money, they must employ whichever person will provide greater value to the country. The indispensable members of staff will command a higher salary than the others.

5. Fair enough it sounds reasonable that the lowest paid shouldn't be asked to pay more, but I don't see why the state should employ some old duffer to do a basic clerical job when a hungry young person will do it for less. Working for the government should be a calling for the best and brightest, not a bit of pasture for those who don't fit in anywhere else.

Rob67

skearon wrote: »

Translation - another common sense thread

Proper translation: Another excuse to rant against the Public Sector fuelled by half truths and assumptions that are trotted out by the media and by individuals who have axes to grind.

mise_me_fein

Somebody mentioned this I think but all of this is pointless.

The fact is the government can't afford to pay the PS workers so they will have to take a cut.

The reason PS workers, or probably better put PS worker with reduced wages or those that have been let go are p!ssed off is because most of the PS workers would be more than happy to take the wage after the pay cut in a job that you probably won't get sacked in.

How many non temps have been sacked?

If a PS worker is on a 3 day week, do they lose wages? If not, I'd love it..less work.

I wonder did any PS workers go on strike when the were told they'd be given only a 3 day week....doubt it...most would be happy to be in a job.

We can keep arguing but the trade unions do not have a lot of support from the rest of the country and this will be critical in their defeat.

Rob67

skearon wrote: »

The deluded members of the public service slagging off the private sector should bear in mind the 100% pay cut 250,000+ private sector people have suffered due to them losing their jobs, not to mention the rest of us paying more tax to pay their wages and huge defined benefit pensions

Firstly, while it is unfair to those who have been made redundant, it is not exactly a 100% pay cut is it? They are entitled to the dole aren't they? Granted it is not a perfect replacement but it is something, even if the waiting times to finally receive payments can be unnaturally long, but that is the fault of bad managers and/or bad practises and that needs to be rectified, immediately.

Secondly, more taxes? Do you mean the income levy that every employee above a certain pay level, public and private, has to fork out?

joblessrprivate

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Workers vs Workers. Just what the government and corporations want. If the little guys are fighting each other, they wont be fighting us. Game over.
I do hope for the sake of this country that you have no position of power, influence or authority otherwise I do despair for our future.

I agree thats what they want but you also have to counteance the fact that conceding to the unions will come at a cost to everyone outside the public sector....


I don't know if a counter march is the answer but I believe the unemployed and private sector unions workers need a voice....
I have started a thread about trying to organise some sort of representation for these sectors in this forum

Have a look ... support it , trash it ... feel free but do engage before we have IMPACT and SIPTU dictating economic policy to the rest of us

ei.sdraob

can they not be fired and replaced with private firms? ha job creation

oh wait i forgot ,the PS cant get fired....

let them strike, once the IMF comes in, the gloves would be off, a few months of no wages being payed and massive cuts as happened in other bankrupt countries before would sort them out

thebman

joblessrprivate wrote: »

I agree thats what they want but you also have to counteance the fact that conceding to the unions will come at a cost to everyone outside the public sector....


I don't know if a counter march is the answer but I believe the unemployed and private sector unions workers need a voice....
I have started a thread about trying to organise some sort of representation for these sectors in this forum

Have a look ... support it , trash it ... feel free but do engage before we have IMPACT and SIPTU dictating economic policy to the rest of us

Politicians represent the unemployed, the most easily bought votes you see.

cyclopath2001

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

3. When the Civil Service Telephone Sanitisers Union withdraws all their work and the world still keeps going, then they shouldn't be re-hired.

That work has been out-sourced for decades & is done by private contractors.

I suppose the public sector staff could clean their own phones and put that contractor out of business, if that's what you'd prefer?

Hotblack Desiato

joblessrprivate wrote: »

I agree thats what they want but you also have to counteance the fact that conceding to the unions will come at a cost to everyone outside the public sector....

The increased taxes and the debt burden on the country that will result will be bad for everyone. But trying to make people see this is difficult. The govt's bad faith and the constant media attacks have p*ssed public sector workers off to the point where compromise is all but impossible. I'll be voting No, for all the good it'll do...

Absurdum

ei.sdraob wrote: »

let them strike, once the IMF comes in, the gloves would be off, a few months of no wages being payed and massive cuts as happened in other bankrupt countries before would sort them out

*yawn*:rolleyes: