Questions for the Public sector worker

Danbo! · 21-10-2009 9:25pm #1

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

Koloman · 21-10-2009 9:39pm

It's like a 3 strikes and your out situation for our nation

Strike 1, The reckless government.

Strike 2, The reckless banks/developers.

Strike 3, The reckless strike action by the out of touch and well insulated from reality public sector unions.

If that third strike happens then it's goodnight Irene!

ardmacha · 21-10-2009 9:44pm

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this.

What do you mean by Job security? Demand for my services remains in good times or bad, guaranteeing me a job whether I am in public sector or the private.

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

I don't.

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

I don't. Does anyone?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

Perhaps because it was a pay reduction.

hawker · 21-10-2009 9:47pm

Stee wrote: »

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

Since 1995 we don't have job security.

Since several years ago new recruits do not receive this 30 mins.

I don't get an extra day off for bank holidays. I never have.

The pension levy is a salary reduction. Has this levy gone directly into paying this pension? I'll answer that for you. No!!

I don't believe I am highly paid for what I do. I'm not in a Union.

How many times are the government going to hit the PS to balance the books? They need another 4bn next year. Are we supposed to pay for that as well?

When are all private sector workers going to be happy? When do they think we've taken enough of a hit? When will you all realise that we're not all well paid and lower paid workers cannot afford any more?

BroomBurner · 21-10-2009 9:49pm

Stee wrote: »

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

Here we go again:

1. We do not have job security, at least quite a lot of us don't.

2. We all do not get 30 minutes banking-time (I for one don't).

3. We don't get an extra day off at bank holidays. Some members do get additional days off twice a year - Christmas and Easter. Don't know why, but as the saying goes - don't hate the player, hate the game.

4. Your take on how PS members feel about the unions that represent them is overly simplistic and, actually, outright ignorant of facts.

5. Many PS workers have spouses who lost their jobs/have reduced pay, however, you might prefer to believe that we all live in a bubble and inter-marry and never feel whats going on in the world outside.

6. At least the PS have an option on what to do to fight their corner. You might not agree with it, but that's what they're doing.

Finally, it's very melodramatic to go whinging and screeching about the public sector going on strike. It is a trade unions job to fight for their members. This is what their doing. As Noreen very simply and effectively put it, this is a show before negotiations. Always happens.

Absurdum · 21-10-2009 9:51pm

Stee wrote: »

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Define "Job Security"? In my department, many of those on contracts have been let go, I know of a couple who have been dismissed. I do my job and I do it well.

Stee wrote: »

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

I don't and I don't know of anybody that does

Stee wrote: »

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

What do you mean by an "extra day off"? I work on probably half the bank holidays.

Stee wrote: »

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

less pay = pay cut

I currently pay 13.5% of my salary + PRSI towards my pension - I will most likely have paid this for 40 years upon retirement. That is not "just a fraction"

Stee wrote: »

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

I don't give a damn about unions, public or private sector, and never have, so does not apply to me

D

Stee wrote: »

o you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

see above

also note that industrial action does not necessarily mean strike

Stee wrote: »

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

see above, again

Danbo! · 21-10-2009 10:04pm

hawker wrote: »

Since 1995 we don't have job security.

Fair enough, didnt know that.

hawker wrote: »

Since several years ago new recruits do not receive this 30 mins.

I worked as temp in PS for a summer and got it

hawker wrote: »

I don't get an extra day off for bank holidays. I never have.

As above, a bank holiday came with a privilege day.

hawker wrote: »

The pension levy is a salary reduction. Has this levy gone directly into paying this pension? I'll answer that for you. No!!

Ok, do you have a source for that?

hawker wrote: »

I don't believe I am highly paid for what I do. I'm not in a Union.

I was pointing the question towards PS workers within a Union who are intent on striking, should have put that in title

hawker wrote: »

How many times are the government going to hit the PS to balance the books? They need another 4bn next year. Are we supposed to pay for that as well?

They said they can take 1.3bn from PS, and 1.3bn from social welfare. I'd assume the savings are annual, as they are taking a percentage of annual salary

hawker wrote: »

When are all private sector workers going to be happy? When do they think we've taken enough of a hit? When will you all realise that we're not all well paid and lower paid workers cannot afford any more?

Im just asking the questions. But as you may or may not understand, my own view is that there should be paycuts. I've taken a 10% cut and lost 15 colleagues out of 40, because the bosses arent doing as much business, and taking in less money. This results in less tax, so therefore, your bosses taking in less money.

BroomBurner wrote: »

Here we go again:

What do you mean, here we go again? If you're sick of answering these quesions, dont answer them

BroomBurner wrote: »

1. We do not have job security, at least quite a lot of us don't.

Ok, I just found that when I worked in PS there were a lot of slackers and people flaunting the system and never seemed to have any trouble. It seemed that because it wasnt profit driven, it was not very effecient

BroomBurner wrote: »

2. We all do not get 30 minutes banking-time (I for one don't).

Some do, is this just administrative staff?

BroomBurner wrote: »

3. We don't get an extra day off at bank holidays. Some members do get additional days off twice a year - Christmas and Easter. Don't know why, but as the saying goes - don't hate the player, hate the game.

Fair enough

BroomBurner wrote: »

4. Your take on how PS members feel about the unions that represent them is overly simplistic and, actually, outright ignorant of facts.

Ignorance is what brought me here to ask the questions

BroomBurner wrote: »

5. Many PS workers have spouses who lost their jobs/have reduced pay, however, you might prefer to believe that we all live in a bubble and inter-marry and never feel whats going on in the world outside.

This is becoming ridiculous, what bubble?

BroomBurner wrote: »

6. At least the PS have an option on what to do to fight their corner. You might not agree with it, but that's what they're doing.

Again, fair enough

BroomBurner wrote: »

Finally, it's very melodramatic to go whinging and screeching about the public sector going on strike. It is a trade unions job to fight for their members. This is what their doing. As Noreen very simply and effectively put it, this is a show before negotiations. Always happens.

My original post may be whingey and screechey, Im genuinely intereted in hearing both sides of this story

BubbleB · 21-10-2009 10:05pm

Do not have job security........very few doctors do.

Do not get extra day at bank holidays......just work them.

Do not get extra 30minutes to cash a cheque though paid by via PayPal.

It was a pay reduction.

Not all of us are in unions.......maybe some organisations do it for the public INO or IMO?!?!?

I am not highly paid for what I do.

"the out of touch and well insulated from reality public sector".......hmmmm I think not, I see and deal with thinks on a daily basis that private sector worker could barely understand yet help people overcome.

I really don't think the PS is to blame for the state of the country. Yes there are people who are over paid but they are not the majority.

stepbar · 21-10-2009 10:06pm

Did the government ever get round to enacting a bill enabling a department the power to sack a civil servant?

BroomBurner · 21-10-2009 10:10pm

stepbar wrote: »

Did the government ever get round to enacting a bill enabling a department the power to sack a civil servant?

Yes, a civil servant can be fired.

hawker · 21-10-2009 10:10pm

stepbar wrote: »

Did the government ever get round to enacting a bill enabling a department the power to sack a civil servant?

As far as I am aware, yes they did. I've a funny feelng there is another question coming.

Absurdum · 21-10-2009 10:12pm

stepbar wrote: »

Did the government ever get round to enacting a bill enabling a department the power to sack a civil servant?

If someone needs to be sacked, they can be.

The Orb · 21-10-2009 10:12pm

Stee wrote: »

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

There is no guaranteed job in either the civil or public service

Bank time, yes its daft (but hasn't contributed to the country's woes, bit of perspective please)

No extra day off for bank holidays, there is a privelege day at xmas and easter, an old fashioned throwback to the days when many people had to travel back to Dublin, clearly daft in this day and age,

The pension levy was a pay cut, the levy does not go into a pension fund, it goes into the exchequer, ergo a pay cut

Wages are not stupidly high, some civil and pubklic servants are badly paid, some public servants are paid too highly, familiarise yourslef with the grades and payscales and don't generalise

Who is striking? There are no strikes yet. However if the govt lets AIB pass on a 3% rise to bank employees using taxpayers money and then cut my salary by too much then I will strike. I am willing to take another pay cut but I won't have the piss taken out of me to make up for Fianna Fail's ineptitude

OP, you are bit strong on propoganda and short on facts

stepbar · 21-10-2009 10:14pm

Absurdum wrote: »

If someone needs to be sacked, they can be.

By who?

Absurdum · 21-10-2009 10:16pm

stepbar wrote: »

By who?

from upon high obviously

what are you getting at here?

hawker · 21-10-2009 10:18pm

As far as I'm aware Civil Servants can be fired locally.

BroomBurner · 21-10-2009 10:19pm

Stee wrote: »

What do you mean, here we go again? If you're sick of answering these quesions, dont answer them

Ok, I just found that when I worked in PS there were a lot of slackers and people flaunting the system and never seemed to have any trouble. It seemed that because it wasnt profit driven, it was not very effecient

Some do, is this just administrative staff?

Fair enough

Ignorance is what brought me here to ask the questions

This is becoming ridiculous, what bubble?

Again, fair enough

My original post may be whingey and screechey, Im genuinely intereted in hearing both sides of this story

- try having a look through some other posts on the public sector, you might get an idea of what it is like.

- there are slackers everywhere, in every sector, in every walk of life and in every company. I am all for the public sector trying to make a profit where it can, but it's not always possible. A lot of services are offered free, or at a cut-price, so as to provide the most efficient and effective service to the public. I said "a lot", not "all".

- No, not an admin thing, I'm not sure about the extra days off (there are only two). Maybe it's purely CS, as opposed to PS. The CS btw only accounts for roughly 9% (or is it 13% anyone??) of the overall PS, so we're not even talking majorities here.

- the bubble I was referring to was in your first post, where you questioned how PS members can strike while private sector members were losing their jobs, etc. I was merely countering that with the fact that the PS do not stick within their own sector! Also, a good few members of the PS have lost jobs (contract workers, part-time teachers, SNA's, etc.)

- there genuinely aren't only two sides to the story. Everyone is in a different boat, and to lump all PS workers together, and then unite them in a misguided hatred is wrong on many levels.

Also, please don't forget that there are still plenty of people working in Ireland, and members of ESB, BOI, Zurich, etc. who all signed up to bench-marking have received their payments. There is proof there that the private sector isn't as unhealthy as the papers would have you believe.

nellumr · 21-10-2009 10:20pm

Does anyone who works in the public serice see much nepotism, waste, piss taking etc

hawker · 21-10-2009 10:24pm

nellumr wrote: »

Does anyone who works in the public serice see much nepotism, waste, piss taking etc

Nepotism - yes to a certain degree.

Waste - most definitely yes. They should be f**ked out.

Piss taking - not understanding this one.

Absurdum · 21-10-2009 10:26pm

hawker wrote: »

Nepotism - yes to a certain degree.

can you elaborate on that point please?

imme · 21-10-2009 10:26pm

Stee wrote: »

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get? (1)

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays? (2)

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away? (3)

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? (4) And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over? (5)

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy (6), so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves?(7) Striking is only going to make things worse.

(1) I guess the 30mins thing is historical and just hasn't been changed.
(2) What now?

(3) effectively it is a salary deduction.
(4) do unions set pay for public sector employees now? were current pay rates not set under partnership agreements?
(5) "bend over"

(6) very true
(7) banks don't seem to have changed in any way

BroomBurner · 21-10-2009 10:28pm

nellumr wrote: »

Does anyone who works in the public serice see much nepotism, waste, piss taking etc

I can only comment on the CS, but nepotism doesn't happen in the hiring of staff. It's all done through the Public Appointments Service and a job is dependent on first getting through an exam (where you are known as a number) and then a second round of tests and/or an interview, depending on what grade you are aiming for. Some grades require a 3rd and 4th round of tests.

Waste - every sector has waste. I've only worked in two areas in the CS and both have a strong team of hard-working, dedicated people.

Piss-taking - I have seen an equal amount of this in both the public sector and the private sector (worked there for a number of years), so it is not anything above and beyond the norm and it is most definitely NOT exclusive to the PS.

nellumr · 21-10-2009 10:31pm

hawker wrote: »

Nepotism - yes to a certain degree.

Waste - most definitely yes. They should be f**ked out.

Piss taking - not understanding this one.

Just treating the job as an easy ride, not taking it seriously etc
As for the nepotism I know it's rampant in the private sector due to small family owned buisnesses.

nellumr · 21-10-2009 10:32pm

BroomBurner wrote: »

I can only comment on the CS, but nepotism doesn't happen in the hiring of staff. It's all done through the Public Appointments Service and a job is dependent on first getting through an exam (where you are known as a number) and then a second round of tests and/or an interview, depending on what grade you are aiming for. Some grades require a 3rd and 4th round of tests.

Waste - every sector has waste. I've only worked in two areas in the CS and both have a strong team of hard-working, dedicated people.

Piss-taking - I have seen an equal amount of this in both the public sector and the private sector (worked there for a number of years), so it is not anything above and beyond the norm and it is most definitely NOT exclusive to the PS.

With the nepotism thing I also mean political connections, not just family connections.

ParkRunner · 21-10-2009 10:32pm

stepbar wrote: »

Did the government ever get round to enacting a bill enabling a department the power to sack a civil servant?

http://www.idis.gov.ie/repca1.nsf/80255f01003f497980255ecb00542f35/cb868c29dcbe12608025724a004f8776?OpenDocument

Some bedtime reading for you

stepbar · 21-10-2009 10:32pm

Absurdum wrote: »

from upon high obviously

what are you getting at here?

hawker wrote: »

As far as I'm aware Civil Servants can be fired locally.

A civil servant can be sacked by order of the minister of the department in question or by a senior civil servant if the position is at the lower grades.

A civil servant cannot be fired by their immediate manager. That's what I'm getting at.

hawker · 21-10-2009 10:32pm

Absurdum wrote: »

can you elaborate on that point please?

Well strictly I suppose it isn't Nepotism in the true sense of the word. But I've seen 'favours' done for close colleagues in a place I worked. In other words I've seen people promoted/transferred because they know the right people.

Hope that clears it up

hawker · 21-10-2009 10:34pm

nellumr wrote: »

Just treating the job as an easy ride, not taking it seriously etc
As for the nepotism I know it's rampant in the private sector due to small family owned buisnesses.

I'd only be lying if I said I didn't witness piss-taking. But I'd group that in with waste in my opinion. Both are linked.

Rampant is not a word I'd use for it. But imo it does happen.

BroomBurner · 21-10-2009 10:35pm

nellumr wrote: »

With the nepotism thing I also mean political connections, not just family connections.

Not that I'm aware of, perhaps in the past or something. The rules behind applying state very clearly and categorically that any communications from a third party with regards an applicant will deem that application null and void.

I remembered that part very clearly when I was applying and was quite impressed. You can call me naive if you want, but I got a job in the PS and I know no politicians, etc.

nellumr · 21-10-2009 10:37pm

BroomBurner wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of, perhaps in the past or something. The rules behind applying state very clearly and categorically that any communications from a third party with regards an applicant will deem that application null and void.

I remembered that part very clearly when I was applying and was quite impressed. You can call me naive if you want, but I got a job in the PS and I know no politicians, etc.

I remember applying for the office of the comptroller general and like you said before you were really just a number at the early stage.

Absurdum · 21-10-2009 10:38pm

stepbar wrote: »

A civil servant can be sacked by order of the minister of the department in question or by a senior civil servant if the position is at the lower grades.

A civil servant cannot be fired by their immediate manager. That's what I'm getting at.

I'm sure that is also similar in large private sector organisations too though, it would have to go HR, a line manager or production manager wouldn't have that kind of power usually.

Questions for the Public sector worker

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