Questions for the Public sector worker

ceret

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Listening to recent debates particularly on the pension levy I have noticed that whenever a union boss is interviewed the phrase "another pay cut" is always used - it seems to be a very deliberate ploy to reinforce the idea that public sector pay has already been cut.
What usually follows is a barrage of text and calls to the radio/tv station stating that contributing to your own pension is not a pay cut and that gross basic pay is unchanged

If I choose to put say 7% of my income in a PRSA from tomorrow for example I am unlikely to tell anyone that I've just experienced a pay cut and expect them to feel sorry for me.

Nah it pretty much is a pay cut. The value of their pension doesn't go up. They get less money with no added benefits. Ergo paycut

The_Conductor

ceret wrote: »

Nah it pretty much is a pay cut. The value of their pension doesn't go up. They get less money with no added benefits. Ergo paycut

The proposal is to tax their pension lumpsums too. After 40 years service normally a lumpsum would have been a tax free sum equivalent to 1.5 years average salary over the past 5 years of employ. Taxing this (as is proposed)- is a cut of 62% in net lumpsum entitlements, for an employee who has full 40 years service. This is how they managed to get 20% of the civil service to volunteer for early retirement (I believe the deadline has been extended 3 times- most recently to the end of October).

Its actually the case that they are being told- leave, or we'll tax you out.....

Pharaoh1

I still dont buy the pay cut argument.

Getting a PS DB pension and gratuity for a superannuation contribution was a fantastic deal.

Even with the levy and associated tax relief it is still a good deal.

I dont know why the govt didnt just increase the superannuation in a graded way and forget about the levy.
Maybe it figured that the pension levy like the income and health levies might look like they could be abolished at some time in the future if they were add ons.

One thing the whole debate has done is to educate the public on the actuarial value of pensions and how much it would cost to buy a particular pension from a provider.
I have come across a few people that honestly believed that public servants paid in full for their pensions by way of contributions and fully paid for their gratuity like somebody would with a PRSA.

NewDubliner

muppetkiller wrote: »

What are you talking about ? The Private sectors pay is not being provided for by tax payers money (public and private tax payers).

So where does the revenue of the private sector come from?

How are their pensions (most of which comes from the state) funded?

I could be mistaken, but, doesn't the private sector make its money by charging money to everyone else, including, for the most part, taxpayers?

Chris_533976

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

I dont. My contract is for two years and ends in April 2010. Then I'll be unemployed.


Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

I take approximatly 30 seconds ON MY TEABREAK to swap the cash from one bank account to another.


Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

Most people get bank holidays off work.

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

It was a salary reduction. We already pay superannuation. Now granted, we dont pay enough into the pensions for the amount we get out, but instead of keeping the pension as it stands and increasing contributions, why not look at reducing/changing the pension?

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

No. In my field people in the US earn $120k +. I earn €43k. I'm not in the unions either, I wont be striking. I'll be the only person at work if I have to.

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

I wont be striking, and yes I feel sorry for the 400,000 people on the scratcher, but I'll be joining them in six months time.

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

Striking will make things worse, I agree. The government do need to know though that people wont be walked over. Pay cuts are necessary, not too severe, but whats needed more is a reduction in social welfare and a reduction in the minimum wage, creating more of a gap between the two. Part of the trouble is the 'it doesnt pay to work' mentality.

mariaalice

i work for a charity that is funded by the HSC...so im considered a public servant ....i think a lot of people are confusing the civil services with the broader public services ...


where i work you can be sacked just like anywhere else ..verbal warning followed by a written warning etc

i will get a good pension when i retired ( please god )...but not the type of pension that the fire service gets.


we have new work practices and new hours of working and other changes from time to time and there's never any issue about it....except for a bit of grumbling

we work to budgets which are strictly monitored

managers who have not managed to stay in budget have been demoted ( as should be )

the public services is very varied

my job is permanent because it will never become obsolete and it cant be exported to a lower paying country...

CptMackey

I recently worked in the Public Sector and i was let go after my contract ended. Now im unemployed with no real prospects of employment here.

When i hear people talking about job security in the public sector it drives me mad. Some do alot dont, all contract staff are being let go

In my office of 20 people 6 were let go with me in September, btw we had to pay the pension levy even tho im not entitled to the pension.

(Rant)
Once i had a member of the public ring up and give out to me about a scheme i was dealing with then he started to tell me that he was paying my wages and the usual stuff :rolleyes:. (Rant)

Absurdum

jmayo wrote: »

Of course this does not apply to public sector workers, particularly with regard to sheer incompetence and gross abuse of expenses, in organisations such as Fás or Financial Regulators office. :rolleyes:

It does, my reply was in that context. I posted my experience of this in post #38.

I think a lot of private sector people are looking at what went on in Fás as being representative of the entire public sector, which is simply not true. If you think the average public sector worker is happy about their taxes paying for the likes of Roddy Molloy's pension then you are mistaken. Of course, the fact that we are having this public Vs private argument is enough to provide cover for the people who make the appointments to these boards (board of Fás for example, not boards.ie!).

gerry28

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

I still dont buy the pay cut argument.

Getting a PS DB pension and gratuity for a superannuation contribution was a fantastic deal.

Even with the levy and associated tax relief it is still a good deal.

Pharaoh1, what you are getting at is that its still a fair deal - i.e its still a good pension even taking the pension levy into account... and you may indeed be right.

But mathamatically speaking it is a pay cut.

NewDubliner

gerry28 wrote: »

Pharaoh1, what you are getting at is that its still a fair deal - i.e its still a good pension even taking the pension levy into account...

Assuming this or some future government doesn't pass a law changing the rules.

Private Joker

There is a lot of unwarranted hatred out there for the public sector, and its been stoked weekly to soften us up for the inevitable pay decrease in the next budget.
I have ten years in the public sector earning 43k per year , i work hard have never taken a day off sick in those years , always show up on time and stay late most days. My work load has increased because 7 out of 14 staff have left in the last 6 months in my section.( 5 who's contracts weren't renewed and 2 retired)
I've had to endure all the levies that the private sector has taken , along with a 30% reduction in expenses (which wasn't big in the first place)
and the pension levy.

There is also talk that next year we'll all be on a 4 day week.

I appreciate that the private sector has taken a big hit in this economic downturn but so has the public sector. I know that I have a reasonably secure job but thats because i'm providing a service to the public and as long as that service is required why shouldn't i have a secure job. I think i provide value for money to the taxpayer.

muppetkiller

CptMackey wrote: »

When i hear people talking about job security in the public sector it drives me mad. Some do alot dont, all contract staff are being let go

You were a contractor !! You're paid alot more money because you're not supposed to have job security.

Nightwish

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

I'm on a contract, which means I dont have job security.

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

I think this is in the civil service. We dont have this where I work in the HSE. Its a ridiculous rule. They need to get rid of that.

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?
Do I?

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

What perk do I have? Pension levy was a salary reduction. A small one for me, as I'm on the lowest pay scale, but nonetheless it was a reduction.

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

I'm not in any Union. I dont agree with striking. I do agree that paycuts are a necessity.

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

I'm not striking. I'm not going to support any strike.

Absurdum

muppetkiller wrote: »

You were a contractor !! You're paid alot more money because you're not supposed to have job security.

You know this how???

SC024

CptMackey wrote: »

I recently worked in the Public Sector and i was let go after my contract ended. Now im unemployed with no real prospects of employment here.

When i hear people talking about job security in the public sector it drives me mad. Some do alot dont, all contract staff are being let go

---

you just said it there... Your a f$cking contractor! that by definition is not an employee and doesn't entitle you to the same benefits!! We're not discussing public sectror contractors here, We're discusing public sector employees !!!! Wake up!!

SC024

RCIRL

Why do you actually have Job Security? I've never understood this. How would you feel if this was taken away? Annoyed? Would you strike?

I am on the dole so I could be considered a PS worker? I was a trades man in a "job for life" some how its no longer deemed "job for life". I have 16 years experience and cant find 1 single job after trying for almost a year. If I had along with over 450,000 people a Union, I would strike but we don't have one, we have to wait until all this blows over until something is done on our behalf. I get the feeling its going to be a long time.

Why, when you get paid by paypath, do you get an extra 30 mins to go to the bank on payday to cash the cheque you didnt get?

I get paid weekly, every Wednesday. I have to visit my local post office and Que up for it. The time spent varies but its definitely a lot more than 30 mins. On my monthly sign on day I could spend over 4 hours in the Que. Overall the experience in getting paid is unpleasant due to the loss of pride associated when having to receive pay in this circumstance.

Why do you get an extra day off at bank holidays?

People think I have many days off, I don't. Everyday I check the FAS web site for new jobs, seldom do I find one in my trade, any jobs I find available I send my CV and hope something comes back, 99.9% of the time nothing does. While I am searching for jobs and sending my CV I also have to deal with my mounting debts, each day I await letters and phone calls from my lenders with reminders of payments due. Overall my days working are the hardest I have worked so far, it is emotionally draining leading to depression. You lookforward to the weekend but the weekends tend to be just as depressing you cant afford to socialise.

Why do you insist that the pension levy was a salary reduction, when actually it was just a fraction of one of your perks taken away?

While working as a trades man, I never received any perks or expenses. Anything I needed for doing my work came from my own wages. Now I am a PS on the dole I expect to receive a pay cut soon. I have worked as a trades man for 16 years and contributed, I do wonder where all that money has gone? PS dole workers had the dole payments increase during the time I was a trades man, now I am on the dole its decreasing to a point where I will soon find it even more difficult to live.

Do you not realise that the unions have been driving your wages to stupidly high levels to the point where the government cannot afford to pay you anymore? And now as soon as the union says "strike" you all bend over?

While working as a trades man I never had a Union, I had to take what the going rate was, it depended a lot on the employer and the type of work. It was never a fixed rate and generally I didn't see much of a rise over the 16 years working only a decline. Being a PS dole worker I am experiencing a decline in my rate too. I can safely say, since the day I became qualified my pay has steadily decreased while my experience increased.

Do you really not see that there are 400,000 people on the scratcher looking for any work they can get, and you're striking?

Over 450.000 people on the scratcher, ready to go back to work. These people will put the PS workers to shame should the opportunity become available. Most of these people wouldn't even know the meaning of the word "strike". They just work hard and have pride knowing a job is done well and dont expect nothing more than a weekly wage. Having a strike during this present time is disrespectful to these people, almost an insult.

Yes yes, the goverment and banks have done their part to destroy the economy, so why stoop to their level and take a hit at it yourselves? Striking is only going to make things worse.

They are all a bunch of headless chickens, the whole lot of them, PS workers and all, they have lost touch with reality. Its too late now, damage has been done and its going to take a long time to fix it. If you you are able best thing to do is leave Ireland, let them all fight over the crumbs. If you cant, stick around, there might be some jobs in the PS soon.



How do you scare the s*** out of a PS worker?


Privatisation!!!

tallaght01

muppetkiller wrote: »

What are you talking about ? The Private sectors pay is not being provided for by tax payers money (public and private tax payers).

I'm no economist. And, tbh, I'd be happy to take a pay cut if I came back to Ireland.

But surely, with all these people struggling to make ends meet, reducing prices by decreasing private sector wages would be good for the population as a whole.

I have a couple of mates back home who are now on the dole and are struggling to make ends meet. Wages is the big cost in Ireland.

So, will the private sector be willing to take a pay cut so those less fortunate might see a drop in prices?

NewDubliner

RCIRL wrote: »

How do you scare the s*** out of a PS worker? Privatisation!!!

Say, how did the privitisation of the UK's water supply go?

The_Conductor

NewDubliner wrote: »

Say, how did the privitisation of the UK's water supply go?

Or Eircom, or Aerlingus, or ACC, or......

RCIRL

NewDubliner wrote: »

Say, how did the privitisation of the UK's water supply go?

No idea, I do know the UK have actual "water regulations" which by doing so stops house's being supplied by ditch water piped half arse'd by a bunch of polish who suddenly became plumbers when arriving to Ireland.

The Government will introduce water rates but they wont regulate the water service properly, it will cost to much. It would take decades to do such a thing. We'll be robbed again for a service that hasn't improved since water first became available at the tap.

Get out while you can.

NewDubliner

RCIRL wrote: »

No idea,

Not only should the public sector be wary of privitisation, so should the the private sector.

I think you're blinded by spite.

The Saint

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm no economist. And, tbh, I'd be happy to take a pay cut if I came back to Ireland.

But surely, with all these people struggling to make ends meet, reducing prices by decreasing private sector wages would be good for the population as a whole.

I have a couple of mates back home who are now on the dole and are struggling to make ends meet. Wages is the big cost in Ireland.

So, will the private sector be willing to take a pay cut so those less fortunate might see a drop in prices?

I agree that wages over all in both private and public sector needs to come down in order to make Ireland more competitive. However people in the private sector are not employed by the government, therefore the government has no say in what their wages should be. People in the private sector have their wages determined my the market. A lot of people have already seen pay reduction and job losses. Those who have not are apparently working for profitable companies. The public service cannot be described as such.

imme

RCIRL wrote: »

No idea, I do know the UK have actual "water regulations" which by doing so stops house's being supplied by ditch water piped half arse'd by a bunch of polish who suddenly became plumbers when arriving to Ireland.

The Government will introduce water rates but they wont regulate the water service properly, it will cost to much. It would take decades to do such a thing. We'll be robbed again for a service that hasn't improved since water first became available at the tap.

Get out while you can.

I'm unaware of any 'ditch water', supplied to houses in Ireland.
your comments on Polish people aren't on, what do you mean by them?
EU drinking water standards are the standards we go by in Ireland for public water, not UK "water regs" that you seem quite taken by.

tallaght01

The Saint wrote: »

I agree that wages over all in both private and public sector needs to come down in order to make Ireland more competitive. However people in the private sector are not employed by the government, therefore the government has no say in what their wages should be. People in the private sector have their wages determined my the market. A lot of people have already seen pay reduction and job losses. Those who have not are apparently working for profitable companies. The public service cannot be described as such.

I know that. Both sectors have taken a pay cut.

The private sector are telling the public sector to take this cut for the common good, which is fair enough.

But I'm just wondering if they'll apply those standards to themselves, and take a cut to make us more competitive, and to allow those who are worse off to have a better quality of life.

I doubt it, but it's worth talking about.

eoinbn

smccarrick wrote: »

Or Eircom, or Aerlingus, or ACC, or......

Indeed. Keep Aerlingus under state control would of been a great thing. After massive cuts they are still managing to lose €100m a year, lord only knows how much it would be costing the state to subidized it without the cut backs.

Eircom is somewhat different as if it had been state controlled them we might of invested some of the boom money more wisely. However a big problem with Eircom is that it's is massively overstaffed with people that aren't skilled to deal with the changes that have taken place over the last 15 years.

RCIRL

imme wrote: »

I'm unaware of any 'ditch water', supplied to houses in Ireland.
your comments on Polish people aren't on, what do you mean by them?
EU drinking water standards are the standards we go by in Ireland for public water, not UK "water regs" that you seem quite taken by.

The standard of water is atrocious, the distribution is unequal where you have houses closest to the filter stations receiving the highest dose of chemicals and the furthest away receiving the least. Most house's suffer from the effects of hard water, any electrical element in contact with the water will burn out, in most cases before the guarantee.

EU drinking water standards? Boiling the water before you can use it, is that the EU standard? you know this still has to be done in some places within Ireland.

My comments on Polish/Latvian etc etc are on, they came here in there mass's pretending to have trade qualifications and took advantages of the loop hole's we have within our building regulations. Over the years now after the boom you can see all the dodgy inexperienced work coming to light.

Next.

imme

RCIRL wrote: »

The standard of water is atrocious, the distribution is unequal where you have houses closest to the filter stations receiving the highest dose of chemicals and the furthest away receiving the least. Most house's suffer from the effects of hard water, any electrical element in contact with the water will burn out, in most cases before the guarantee.

EU drinking water standards? Boiling the water before you can use it, is that the EU standard? you know this still has to be done in some places within Ireland.

My comments on Polish/Latvian etc etc are on, they came here in there mass's pretending to have trade qualifications and took advantages of the loop hole's we have within our building regulations. Over the years now after the boom you can see all the dodgy inexperienced work coming to light.

Next.

what's a "filter station"?. public water is supplied from reservoirs/water treatment plants, you might do well to read here http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/waterprojects/pages/waterprojects.aspx

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/water-drink/index_en.html
you might do well reading this, it set out EU drinking water standards

What do you mean "loop holes in our building regs". These are legal standards.

I find your comments on Polish people stupid/offensive.
I think you mean they came here in their masses, is this what you meant to say?

oopsbritney

It's obviously someone else not form irelands fault, plus the evil public service (brought to you by the same people who gave you objective news on the property market) caused everything just recently, not to mention the bank managers twisting everyones arm to make them get stuck with personal debt.
There is no quick fix to this and thinking that sensationalising inefficiencies in the public service, which people could be aware of years ago and continued to go for the idiot politiicans that gave us this, will sort it out is ludicrous. Someone mentioned somewhere about unnions not understanding deflation and they were right, the unions who are crying for rises need ot be put in their place alright but the sudden backlashg against the public service is a farce.

RCIRL

NewDubliner wrote: »

Not only should the public sector be wary of privitisation, so should the the private sector.

I think you're blinded by spite.

I may be blinded by spite but you are one dumb ass PS worker, no offense but seriously how do you expect the private sector to be privatised?

Don't tell me, you make it public? hahaha

oopsbritney

So when the whole public service witch hunt is done, who else is next for the pitchfork crowd?