BNP leader to appear on Question Time

denon

Nick Griffin to appear on Question Time tomorrow night, Thurs 22nd Oct.

The BBC's director general, Mark Thompson, today robustly defends the corporation's decision to invite the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, on to Question Time, and challenges the government to change the law if it wants to censor the far-right group.
Writing in the Guardian, Thompson says ministers would have to impose a broadcasting ban on the party – as Margaret Thatcher did with Sinn Féin in the 1980s – before the BBC would consider breaching its "central principle of impartiality".
Griffin was not asked on to the flagship current affairs show out of "some misguided desire to be controversial", he says, but because it is the public's right "to hear the full range of political perspectives".
He adds: "It is a straightforward matter of fact that ... the BNP has demonstrated a level of support which would normally lead to an occasional invitation to join the panel on Question Time. It is for that reason alone ... that the invitation has been extended."
In what appears a direct challenge to the cabinet – including the Wales secretary, Peter Hain, who has argued vociferously for Griffin's invitation to be rescinded – Thompson says: "The case against inviting the BNP to appear on Question Time is a case for censorship ... Democratic societies sometimes do decide that some parties and organisations are beyond the pale. As a result they proscribe them and/or ban them from the airwaves."
Referring to the ban on Sinn Féin in the 1980s, he says the BBC opposed the move by the Thatcher government, but abided by it. The corporation would similarly abide by a decision to proscribe the BNP.
"My point is simply that the drastic steps of proscription and censorship can only be taken by government and parliament ... It is unreasonable and inconsistent to take the position that a party like the BNP is acceptable enough for the public to vote for, but not acceptable enough to appear on democratic platforms like Question Time. If there is a case for censorship, it should be debated and decided in parliament. Political censorship cannot be outsourced to the BBC or anyone else."
Thompson says the BNP will be challenged tenaciously in the programme.
Hain described the BBC director general's position as "plain wrong". He said: "He is dodging the fact the BNP is a racist, fascist party in complete contradiction to the BBC's own equal opportunities and anti-racist policies. The BBC is clearly in denial about this."
Griffin, who is an MEP, arrived in London from Strasbourg tonightand will begin preparations for the show at a secret location this morning before travelling to Television Centre in west London by car in time for the planned 6pm recording.
The BNP is so concerned about its leader's security that it explored chartering a private helicopter to get him to the studio, but was told by the BBC that there was nowhere for a helicopter to land. Anti-fascist protesters are planning a rally outside Television Centre with members of the broadcasting union Bectu.
Griffin told the Guardian he admired Thompson's "personal courage" by inviting him. He described one of his fellow panellists, the Conservative peer Lady Warsi, as "a token Asian Muslim woman" and, in a message to supporters, said tonight's debate was his chance to "take on the corrupt, treacherous swine destroying our beautiful island nation".
He predicted it would be "political bloodsport" when he faces Warsi, Jack Straw, the justice secretary, Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, and Bonnie Greer, a black American playwright and critic who lives in Britain.
The government is not giving any consideration to asking broadcasters to censor the BNP, as it did with Sinn Féin, according to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.
Ben Bradshaw, the culture secretary, said yesterday: "I have always thought we have to take the BNP on. I have always thought they condemn themselves as soon as they open their mouths. In a democracy where they have elected representatives not just at European level but at local level it is very difficult for a broadcaster to exclude them and it also allows them to portray themselves as victims. We should not give these people the opportunity to claim they are being gagged."

So, should he be allowed on? It could be a 'political bloodsport' indeed..

TheZohanS

Moved to Politics. Please be aware of the Politics Charter.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Labour obviously feel that they have to finally meet the BNP head-on in the publin domain. My understanding is that many people vote BNP more for the fact that neither Labour or Tories are taking certain issues seriously enough (their words not mine). Many people with lets say more 'traditional' views are disaffected by the direction Labour have taken in recent years - let's remember that when you actually look at some of the BNP policies, they are remarkably similar to the hard-left Labour policies of the 1950s.

The danger is that Griffen is an attention whore and I have a bad feeling that one of the panelists is going to lose their head at him - perfect opportunity for him to turn it in to a propagandist sob story in a way that he is sadly known to excel in. That is the danger in being seen to legitimise a vulgar racist group like this. But obviously Labour see a political opportunity in doing so. It will be intersting for sure.

marco_polo

denon wrote: »

Nick Griffin to appear on Question Time tomorrow night.



So, should he be allowed on? It could be a 'political bloodsport' indeed..

Yes, once there are others present on air at the same time to challenge his statements, I think the more airtime that crazy people like him get the better TBH.

marco_polo

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Labour obviously feel that they have to finally meet the BNP head-on in the publin domain. My understanding is that many people vote BNP more for the fact that neither Labour or Tories are taking certain issues seriously enough (their words not mine). Many people with lets say more 'traditional' views are disaffected by the direction Labour have taken in recent years - let's remember that when you actually look at some of the BNP policies, they are remarkably similar to the hard-left Labour policies of the 1950s.

The danger is that Griffen is an attention whore and I have a bad feeling that one of the panelists is going to lose their head at him - perfect opportunity for him to turn it in to a propagandist sob story in a way that he is sadly known to excel in. That is the danger in being seen to legitimise a vulgar racist group like this. But obviously Labour see a political opportunity in doing so. It will be intersting for sure.

I understand the viewpoint that it may be seen to give legitimacy to the party, but I think up against any half decent debater they ought to be able to expose the like of him for what they really are.

jhegarty

marco_polo wrote: »

Yes, once there are others present on air at the same time to challenge his statements, I think the more airtime that crazy people like him get the better TBH.

Exactly. Why hide away the loon ?

Kalashnikov_Kid

marco_polo wrote: »

I understand the viewpoint that it may be seen to give legitimacy to the party, but I think up against any half decent debater they ought to be able to expose the like of him for what they really are.

I have had the misfortune in listening to Nick Griffen in interviews before - he pretty much sits back swiping away questions until someone throws some legit racist accusations at him, then basically throws his arms up in dispair and goes off on one. So I have a bad feeling when such a loaded cross-section of panelists are picked - he may well be the one smirking at the end of it while licking his wounds. Question Time is not what it's cracked up to be either - so I won't be holding up my hopes too high I'm afraid. I guess this is what makes good telly. We shall just have to wait and see.

deadhead13

Griffin has already been on The Andrew Marr Show last july.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2a6S10cnpE

But I think his appearance on another BBC programme a few years back shows the real Nick Griffin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77p1ZCKT5KQ&feature=Playlist&p=E888B43F83AC9335&index=0&playnext=1

Sand

A half decent speaker ought to be able to tear shreds of the BNP. If the BNP sit up on the big table with the main UK parties and dont come off looking like country bumpkins then that says a lot for the UK political mainstream in general.

PaulieD

I can see Griffin being attacked by a member of the audience. What times it on?

Bottle_of_Smoke

"anti facist movement protest against democratically elected MEP appearing in the public eye"

Irony anyone?

Mahatma coat

Bonkey had a great quote about this sor of thing in the CT Forum ages ago, and if the bloody Searc Function worked I'd paste it in here,

Something like,

We shouldnt censor people, if their argument is rubbish it will reveal itself to be so and we can dismiss it, however its the people whose arguments hold up to scrutiny no matter how hard we wish they didnt and we cant dismiss that we have to sit up and pay attention to.

Griffin has an Elected Mandate, therefore he is entitled to represent the views of his electorate, the fact that a lot of people dont like those views is irellevant, Griffins Electorate dont like those people either.

ednwireland

he should be allowed on, they are a legal party with meps and councillors, if labour want to keep them off programs they should find a way of making the illegal ~(incitement to racial hatred should be a good place to start looking)
and the BBC has a mandate to give all legitimate political parties airtime (based on % of vote i think)
i see no problem with them been on QT

and no i wouldnt support them (mainly bacause they want to repatriate people like me - if i was still in the uk, on no they dont, thats right, i'm white :mad: )

Fratton Fred

I am looking forward to watching it, becuase i can't wait to see nick Griffin make a complete tool of himself. Their policies are wafer thin so some decent questioning should soon expose him.

On another note, Alex Salmond was on the radio this morning stating that the BBC should not broadcast this in Scotland because the BNP have no elected representatives there. Fair enough, but then why do people in England have to put up with his miserable face on TV?

DoireNod

A load of people I've spoken to are strongly opposed to letting the man appear. These people are self-proclaimed socialists, but they don't realise that to deny Griffin air-time, would be to deny him free-speech and it would be against the ideals of a democratic state and would be more akin to a dictatorship or tyranny. The whole point is that people should be able to make their own minds up, that's what democracy is all about surely? When opponents of the BNP get so riled up over issues like this, it undermines their own stance.

StarshipTrooper

I love when our social betters get all offended on our behalf. The people of Britain are so lucky to have the LabCons telling them right from wrong. They do good things for the people - like stealing tax payers money on a grand scale while sending children to die in Afghanistan because the budget doesn't allow for adequate body Armour.

But hey never mind that - the BNP don't believe in mass immigration and an end to a uniquely British culture. I'm sure the ordinary Brit is just trilled about this gem yesterday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8318010.stm

But yet again the LabCons refuse to acknowledge the problem and listen to the people. They know better, they always know better and why wouldn't they with the likes of Jack Straw?

It's like Nick Griffins co-panelist Mr. Straw said "The English Are Not Worth Saving As A Race"

Maybe Nick should complain to the BBC about having to sit down beside these vermin?

wes

Of course the BNP should be allowed to appear on question time. Anyone with half a brain should be able to pick there idiocy apart pretty quickly.

ejmaztec

As regards freedom of speech, you have to take the rough with the smooth, even allowing access to those groups that would not support it, were they in power.

Griffin has already kicked his Goebbels Mk2 propaganda machine into action by comparing Iraq war associated British army generals with the Nazis strung up after the Nuremberg trials, for their "illegal" war activities. He's probably trying to persuade people that the BNP members are nice Nazis.

I think that Mike Godwin should also have been invited to take part in the programme.

Euro_Kraut

Fratton Fred wrote: »

On another note, Alex Salmond was on the radio this morning stating that the BBC should not broadcast this in Scotland because the BNP have no elected representatives there. Fair enough, but then why do people in England have to put up with his miserable face on TV?

The SNP have seats in the National Parliament of the UK though. The BNP do not.

However, it is a lame argument. Salmond is some I admire though.

Euro_Kraut

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

..... the BNP don't believe in mass immigration and an end to a uniquely British culture.

Aren't all cultures, by definition, unique?

dvpower

Maybe they should let him on, but obscure his face and give him a voice over. Didn't that used to work here?:rolleyes:

Lockstep

Let's protect democracy by curtailing free speech for those we don't believe in!


David Irving was going to speak in NUIG and the Socialist Party/SWP/Stickies contacted AntiFa to stop him getting in, in the end the college had to shut down the whole thing as they coudn't guarantee Irving's safety. Utter bollocks in my opinion, such ideas are like mushrooms; they grow when kept in the dark and fed ****. SHining light on them destroys them. By curtailing freedom of expression they are doing as much to honor Hitler's memory as the fascists are. I'd much rather see such ideas debated in public rather than told to an audience without any opposition.


Good quotes on the matter by those who can sum things up far more eloquently than I ever could;

Voltaire wrote:

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too.

JFK wrote:

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people

Noam Chomsky wrote:

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.

Daftendirekt

Kickoutthejams put it nicely.

I don't see anything wrong with allowing him to appear on the show : it just gives the other debaters (don't know who they are, I only skimmed through the article) an opportunity to tear his policies to shreds. No harm in that.

Griffin is the only person who will come out a loser here, IMO.

Fratton Fred

DoireNod wrote: »

A load of people I've spoken to are strongly opposed to letting the man appear. These people are self-proclaimed socialists, but they don't realise that to deny Griffin air-time, would be to deny him free-speech and it would be against the ideals of a democratic state and would be more akin to a dictatorship or tyranny. The whole point is that people should be able to make their own minds up, that's what democracy is all about surely? When opponents of the BNP get so riled up over issues like this, it undermines their own stance.

How does the saying go? "I don't agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it".

StarshipTrooper

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Aren't all cultures, by definition, unique?

How can a unique culture exist when its sire land is being forced into multiculturalism?

jonsnow

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

How can a unique culture exist when its sire land is being forced into multiculturalism?

Cultures transform and grow constantly.And if they don,t they usually become stagnant and die

Fratton Fred

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

How can a unique culture exist when its sire land is being forced into multiculturalism?

no one is forcing anyone into anything. Multiculturalism means just that, multi cultures. it does not mean British culture should be affected or destroyed.

Half the people who vote BNP have no idea what cultrue is, other than the one Britons have become associated with, ie drinking, fighting and hating johnny foreigner.

Like most extreme parties, most of the BNP supporters are too lazy and stupid to take control of their lives so they blame other people for their own shortcomings.

StarshipTrooper

jonsnow wrote: »

Cultures transform and grow constantly.And if they don,t they usually become stagnant and die

Indeed they do and sometimes cultures are flat out replaced.

What we are seeing today is not a natural organic change in culture with time. We are seeing one native culture being replaced by several competing cultures in a very short period of time.

junder

DoireNod wrote: »

A load of people I've spoken to are strongly opposed to letting the man appear. These people are self-proclaimed socialists, but they don't realise that to deny Griffin air-time, would be to deny him free-speech and it would be against the ideals of a democratic state and would be more akin to a dictatorship or tyranny. The whole point is that people should be able to make their own minds up, that's what democracy is all about surely? When opponents of the BNP get so riled up over issues like this, it undermines their own stance.

well said. Lets not forget as well that the BNP thrive on being persucuted and being victems, personnly i think they would rather be banned so nick can walk around with a gag in his mouth while his party moans about censorship, its time we gave the BNP enough rope and letting into the public eye will do just that

Nodin

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

How can a unique culture exist when its sire land is being forced into multiculturalism?

"sire land"?

I was unaware of anyone being forced to do anything.

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

an end to a uniquely British culture.

Does that refer to the Scottish bit, the loyalist bit, the welsh bit or the english bit......

ArmaniJeanss

StarshipTrooper wrote: »

We are seeing one native culture being replaced by several competing cultures in a very short period of time.

Oh, stop being so Daily Express.

The England/Britain of Shakespeare, Wordsworth,Wimbledon,Ascot, Henley, royalty, Opera, cricket on the Village Green etc is under no threat at all.

Nor is the Britain of Blur, Oasis, Tracey Emin, football, a few bevvies with the mates and a weekend in Blackpool under any threat either.