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BNP leader to appear on Question Time
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Yeah, I think you will find that your wrong, and people in Europe all mixed together regardless of race. I don't know what "science" your looking at, but I think its fair to say it isn't actually "science" and barely deserves to be called "pseudo-science".
The truth lies somewhere in between, but is a strawman to begin with.
There is a genetic map of Europe. It shows that in general the population is genetically similar (bearing in mind what has been said previously on this thread about genetic similarity and difference) but that there are "markers" which allow us to build up a map which correlates quite well geographically.
From that sense, there is an element of accuracy in the whole "basically the same people" argument, just as there is accuracy in the "all mixed together" argument.
Here's the thing, though...its completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
It doesn't matter if many British still have genetic markers which link back to a small population which came from Iberia some 12,000 years ago, unless someone is trying to make the argument that the influence of the Angles, the Saxons, the Jutes, etc. can only be measured genetically.
If what the BNP are arguing is that it is genetic purity that they are seeking to preserve, when they talk about "unique British Culture" then let have the balls to come out and say it...that "culture" and "genetics" are one and the same thing. Until then, we should do them the courtesy of using English (that uniquely British language) correctly, and understand "culture" to mean just that....culture.
If what they're arguing by "unique British culture" is just that...culture, then lets recognise this genetics line of argumentation for the strawman that it is.0 -
Crossbreeding implies that we're talking about substantially different breeds bred for a purpose. Applying the word to humans is offensive to some, please reword your arguments. Oh and from that post one could also argue that there's a very serious problem with Irish people in Britain considering how much blowing up and murders we've done over there for the past 40 years or so. The Muslims are amateurs in comparison.
Ok ,point noted .
One could also argue that the British brought this problem on themselves through their past policies regarding Ireland ,one could also argue the British and Irish are genetically the same people so in a way it could be classed as a civil war.The Irish today are a low to nil threat to the British.0 -
Foreign armies have invaded there countries. I don't see any foreign armies currently occupying Europe.
Also, btw both Iraq and Afghanistan, have multiple ethnic and linguistic groups.
Ever hear of the Nation of Islam or Idi Amin? A far right racist black supremacist group and Idi Amin was also a racist against Asian people. You can be black and be a member of the far right or a racist. The EDL have been rightly labeled far right, not by the "loony" left, but by the main stream.
Quick question, which kills more people in the UK, Islamic terrorism or road accidents. Look up those figures, they will give you a sense of scale here.
Also, it interesting to note that there have been far right terror plots foiled in the past few years as well btw, here is a article from the Independent.co.uk discussing them:
Johann Hari: The looming threat of terror that comes from the far right
Its interesting how those terrorists are never discussed, despite similar plots to murder innocent people.
I am sure you can prove this via a reputable source? Right? As it stands, I think I am safe in saying that what your saying here is a fabrication.
As for drug trafficking, a lot of stuff does come from Afghanistan, but I think you will find a lot of the drug trade, has everything to do with money and Afghanistan is hardly the only source for drugs, and you will find plenty of people of all races involved in the drug trade, as everyone likes money.
As for the passing girls around and prostitution, you clearly talking nonsense.
Yeah, I did look at the sources, and they were talking about riots that were going on at the time, as opposed to people being generally unable to go to thsoe area's, and several of the "sources", were other random right wing blogs.
I stand by what I said earlier about the site.
Once again, you provide an opinion piece, that is discussing the issue, and doesn't actually say there are no go area's. Here is an example of such a paragraph:
Again, no proof of no go area's, just speculation and even instances of attacks against immigrants. Odd how you don't mention that isn't it?
Its also interesting, how easily the author of the article can go to these no go area's as well.
Yeah, I think you will find that your wrong, and people in Europe all mixed together regardless of race. I don't know what "science" your looking at, but I think its fair to say it isn't actually "science" and barely deserves to be called "pseudo-science".
I never called them realists. I called them wrong, which is what they were, and which is what the people saying the same nonsense to are as well.
As for immigrants being responsible for population increase, well I think you will find that population prediction are notoriously hard to predicts, and even the latest prediction your refer to doesn't come close to your nonsense about the indigenous people being out bred.
There are many millions in Europe who would class the influx of immigrants/asylum seekers as invaders.
The different groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan although they speak a different tongue are genetically very similar, the same situation occurs in Europe ie Switzerland
I am aware of the nation of Islam but I think you will find that there are no White people in that group.I am also aware that Adi Amin expelled the Asians from Uganda .Robert Mugabe would be another who has policies that are pro their people.
Who are the mainstream ? and who says they speak for us all !!
The point regarding what kills more in the Uk ,Muslims or car accidents..nonsense...there is a lot more to it than that.
I feel that if you research the far right threat in the UK you will find that it is practically non existent..a couple of people have been arrested with homemade bombs and you also have the soho bomber and there is a group known as C-18 but they are inactive overall a low to nil threat.
http://scottishbritishandproud.blogspot.com/2009/03/muslims-grooming-white-girls-for.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW97niR7gBI&feature=related
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/46
As regards the no go areas ,I personally think that they exist..I have provided you with information that suggests that this is the case and you are quite entitled to believe it or not.
I think it is you that are wrong regards western Europe genetics ,you may be correct in stating that some Southern Europeans have admixture in their blood.
The British government report stated that the 'population increase' was down to immigration.
I again go back to the figure of 1,000,000 mixed race kids in the UK this is nearly 1 in 60 of the population,it this not a replacement of sorts of the Indigenous population.0 -
bonkey wrote:Here's the thing, though...its completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if many British still have genetic markers which link back to a small population which came from Iberia some 12,000 years ago, unless someone is trying to make the argument that the influence of the Angles, the Saxons, the Jutes, etc. can only be measured genetically.
It is relevant when it's used as a response to those people who attack the BNP with that 'sure-we're-all-descended-from-immigrants' line. The genetic evidence seems to show that we're probably not all descended from immigrants and that our roots in these islands stretch back thousands of years.
It's relevant as well because it helps to demonstrate that current levels of immigration are not normal. You claimed earlier in the thread that what's happening now is part of a process that has been going on for centuries. If what is happening now has been going on for centuries then how come the outside influence in our gene pool is so small? The reality is that what's happening now is not normal.bonkey wrote:If what the BNP are arguing is that it is genetic purity that they are seeking to preserve, when they talk about "unique British Culture" then let have the balls to come out and say it...that "culture" and "genetics" are one and the same thing. Until then, we should do them the courtesy of using English (that uniquely British language) correctly, and understand "culture" to mean just that....culture.
You can use a clinical word like genetics to describe the sense of ethnic identity that people feel but I don't think it accurately captures the feeling any more than using the word genetics can accurately capture the bond that members of a family feel towards each other. People are nothing more than vehicles for their genes and we're programmed to want our genes to survive into the future. Wanting to preserve as many of our genes into the future is perfectly natural when viewed objectively.
Looking at it subjectively, I think it's more about wanting to preserve a sense of people-hood. For me being Irish is about being part of an extended family of people sharing a common ancestry, a common culture, a common heritage and even a vaguely-defined sense of a common character. It's something that I value for it's own sake and want to preserve into the future. I think the BNP are motivated by the same desire to see what they see as their people survive into the future.0 -
No, its not.It is relevant when it's used as a response to those people who attack the BNP with that 'sure-we're-all-descended-from-immigrants' line.
I'll readily admit I was sloppy in my argument. I was thinking culturally, but didn't state my position in that way.
What would have been the relevant response from someone defending the BNP against such an attack would be to say that the BNP's stance is not based on some notion of genetic "purity".
Instead, we see those seeking to defend the BNP readily jumping on board the genetic bandwagon...seeking to defend a position that the BNP supposedly don't hold in the first place.
So unless the BNP do hold to some notion of preserving genetic "purity", then the argument is a red herring. Its not a question of who started it...its a question of its relevance to the topic at hand.
It depends on how you define "normal".It's relevant as well because it helps to demonstrate that current levels of immigration are not normal.
Current levels of immigration are not in line with historical levels, granted.
Then again, current levels of wealth are also not in line with historical levels, and I don't see the people who want to preserve "uniquely British culture" arguing that we should take vast amounts of wealth off the common man and make his life far, far harder.
Current levels of medical care are not in line with historical levels, but again I don't see anyone arguing that we should abandon that because its not traditional.
Current levels of travel are orders of magnitude above what would be historically normal...but again, no-one seems to think twice. Indeed, suggest to people that they may have to cut back on their Ryanair and Easyjet flights to the sun (to levels still above what we had a generation ago) and you will meet with outrage.
In fact, if we look at history to determine what is "normal", there's very little about current society that fits the bill at all. Why is only one select historical abnormality being concentrated on? Why are BNP not telling us we should be poorer, with poorer health, with less travel, less luxury in our lives and fewer prospects?
Yes. The evolution of culture.You claimed earlier in the thread that what's happening now is part of a process that has been going on for centuries.
I can think of several reasons, but my overwhelming answer is....who cares? Unless the BNP's stance is that the "uniquely British culture" that they're trying to preserve is the gene pool, the argument is nothing more than a convenient bit of misdirection.If what is happening now has been going on for centuries then how come the outside influence in our gene pool is so small?
Culture evolves. It has always evolved. It will continue to evolve. This is a process which has been going on for centuries and will continue.
The application of the term "evolution" is also not haphazard. Culture really does evolve. It is not directed. There is no master plan. There is no "normal" evoluton and "abnormal" evolution. There is merely evolution.
What feeling? The feeling of being "British"? The feeling of belonging to a culture?You can use a clinical word like genetics to describe the sense of ethnic identity that people feel but I don't think it accurately captures the feeling
Personally, I would be ashamed to be part of a culture which even suggested that someone from a different genetic background to me could not share that feeling. If they were to take steps to discriminate against such people in any way, shape or form, my position would shift from one of shame to one of outrage.
This has nothing either to do with the BNPs argument about culture nor about the argument about genetics.Wanting to preserve as many of our genes into the future is perfectly natural when viewed objectively.
However, when viewed objectively, the racial background of your choice of partner has little, if anything to do with how many of your genes will survive into the future. It may play a slight role, in that genetic diversity tends to be a good thing...which would suggest that your best bet is in finding a partner as genetically diverse from you as possible, rather than one which is closer.
But as I keep saying...BNP aren't arguing for a "genetically pure Britain", so all of this is just smoke and mirrors. Why don't we get back to what BNP are arguing for, given that this is what we're supposed to be discussing?
You're entitled to feel whatever you want about what it means "to be Irish", just as I'm entitled to do the same.Looking at it subjectively, I think it's more about wanting to preserve a sense of people-hood. For me being Irish is about being part of an extended family of people sharing a common ancestry, a common culture, a common heritage and even a vaguely-defined sense of a common character. It's something that I value for it's own sake and want to preserve into the future. I think the BNP are motivated by the same desire to see what they see as their people survive into the future.
You're entitled to feel whatever you like about my political leanings, just as I am free to do the same about yours.
When people start to discriminate - to act, or to encourage action - based on ethnic lines, though...thats when they step over the line into racism. Thats when it becomes unacceptable.0 -
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There are many millions in Europe who would class the influx of immigrants/asylum seekers as invaders.immigration definition - legal
n
The act of entering a country with the intention of remaining there permanently.invasion definition
in·va·sion (in vā′z̸hən)
noun
an invading or being invaded; specif.,
1. an entering or being entered by an attacking military force
2. an intrusion or infringement
3. the onset, appearance, or spread of something
As can be seen by the above definition immigration and invasion are different acts. So until I see some kind of foreign army invading Europe, I think it safe to say any invasion is exists purely in over active imaginations.The different groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan although they speak a different tongue are genetically very similar, the same situation occurs in Europe ie Switzerland
Not entirely true, take Afghanistan for example, who have people of Indo-European origin and people from Central Asia for example.I am aware of the nation of Islam but I think you will find that there are no White people in that group.I am also aware that Adi Amin expelled the Asians from Uganda .Robert Mugabe would be another who has policies that are pro their people.
The Nation of Islam actually tried to work with the Ku Klux Klan at one point btw. Hell, when Muhammed Ali was a member he even addressed a Ku Klux Klan rally:Grey areas abound in debate over Muhammad Ali's legacy
The revelation that Muhammad Ali secretly addressed a rally of the Ku Klux Klan will cause further debate about the legacy of the former heavyweight champion. The meeting is revealed by Ali himself in an interview in the build-up to his 1975 fight against Joe Frazier, and forms the focal point of True Stories: Thrilla in Manila, a documentary to be broadcast on More 4 tomorrow evening.
Different racist groups have helped each other at times.Who are the mainstream ? and who says they speak for us all !!
No one can speak for everyone.The point regarding what kills more in the Uk ,Muslims or car accidents..nonsense...there is a lot more to it than that.
Its not nonsense. Its context. We both know road accidents kill more people.I feel that if you research the far right threat in the UK you will find that it is practically non existent..a couple of people have been arrested with homemade bombs and you also have the soho bomber and there is a group known as C-18 but they are inactive overall a low to nil threat.
I have looked into it, and they seem to plenty dangerous imho. Plenty of foiled attacks, that just don't make the news.
The video says "Asian" men and doesn't mention them being Muslim. The rest is commentary from a another random blog. You really have to do better you know.
The 2nd video, mentioned gangs all over the country, who are White, Black and Asian. Again, you really need to watch the videos. Pretty much every ethnic group are involved, but you have chosen to ignore huge chunks of the video. Completely bizarre that you have decided to do that.
The last link only mentions that Pakistani criminal gangs (not all Muslims are Pakistani btw), in the context of the BNP trying to take advantage of the stories. One would think if someone was really concerned about these girls safety they would go after groups regardless of ethnicity.As regards the no go areas ,I personally think that they exist..I have provided you with information that suggests that this is the case and you are quite entitled to believe it or not.
They either do or don't exist, and its up to you to prove it and you haven't provided any evidence that does so.I think it is you that are wrong regards western Europe genetics ,you may be correct in stating that some Southern Europeans have admixture in their blood.
The thing is no one is really a 100% pure anything.
You ever watch one of those shows were people get genetic tests and find out they have ancestors from all over the place, this is the reality.The British government report stated that the 'population increase' was down to immigration.
Which is a world away from anyone being swamped now isn't it?I again go back to the figure of 1,000,000 mixed race kids in the UK this is nearly 1 in 60 of the population,it this not a replacement of sorts of the Indigenous population.
Um no it isn't, its integration and perfectly natural. Why do the kids being mixed race even matter to you? Its just so bizarre that it bothers you.0 -
There are many millions in Europe who would class the influx of immigrants/asylum seekers as invaders..
So if most people think the earth is flat its so?I am aware of the nation of Islam but I think you will find that there are no White people in that group.I am also aware that Adi Amin expelled the Asians from Uganda .Robert Mugabe would be another who has policies that are pro their people...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that we should copy the activities of Amin and Mugabe?0 -
As can be seen by the above definition immigration and invasion are different acts. So until I see some kind of foreign army invading Europe, I think it safe to say any invasion is exists purely in over active imaginations.
Not entirely true, take Afghanistan for example, who have people of Indo-European origin and people from Central Asia for example.
The Nation of Islam actually tried to work with the Ku Klux Klan at one point btw. Hell, when Muhammed Ali was a member he even addressed a Ku Klux Klan rally:
Different Racial groups have helped each other at times.
No one can speak for everyone.
Its not nonsense. Its context. We both know road accidents kill more people.
I have looked into it, and they seem to plenty dangerous imho. Plenty of foiled attacks, that just don't make the news.
The video says "Asian" men and doesn't mention them being Muslim. The rest is commentary from a another random blog. You really have to do better you know.
The 2nd video, mentioned gangs all over the country, who are White, Black and Asian. Again, you really need to watch the videos. Pretty much every ethnic group are involved, but you have chosen to ignore huge chunks of the video. Completely bizarre that you have decided to do that.
The last link only mentions that Pakistani criminal gangs (not all Muslims are Pakistani btw), in the context of the BNP trying to take advantage of the stories. One would think if someone was really concerned about these girls safety they would go after groups regardless of ethnicity.
They either do or don't exist, and its up to you to prove it and you haven't provided any evidence that does so.
The thing is no one is really a 100% pure anything.
You ever watch one of those shows were people get genetic tests and find out they have ancestors from all over the place, this is the reality.
Which is a world away from anyone being swamped now isn't it?
Um no it isn't, its integration and perfectly natural. Why do the kids being mixed race even matter to you? Its just so bizarre that it bothers you.
Invasion;the onset ,appearance, or spread of something... sounds about right to me .. I'll stick with invasion.
There are also remnants of white people in pakistan, they are thought to be related to Alexander the Greats army,they are few in number though.
Indo-European refers to language..Indo European languages are spoken in India,Iran ,Europe and the Caucasus region.
I don't know anything about the KKK or the Nation of Islam working together..the only reason for this as far as I can see is that both have the same Ideal for their relative peoples.
Regarding the media.. I find Bloggers to be a very good source of European local news,you'll find stuff in these blogs that might not be reported through the main media .
Just because they are not mainstream does not mean they are spouting nonsense.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2237941.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2237943.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2237940.ece?Submitted=true
The above articles are only a small sample of what is actually going on but I think you will find that muslim is mentioned
There are Muslim ,Blacks and the Whites they are referring to are East Europeans and Albanians but the main abusers are the Asians and blacks and the vast majority of the abusers are Non Indigenous men.
The BNP actually helped sort out the problem in one town, the police had no interest in getting involved until the BNP decided to inform the press and only then the the Police become involved.
I find your logic that the BNP are only doing this for political gain to be Worrying,maybe they just actually care about the Indigenous people.
I think that the no go areas actually do exist,i have provided you with evidence to that effect.
From my own personal experience, I had a gun put to my head in a predominately non indigenous area of London .I later learned it was a common occurrence for white people to be robbed there.
They have tested men on the West coast of Ireland and they have been found to have the lowest admix in Europe ,so if you want to know what your ancestors looked like thousand of years ago , go west of Eire.
Some people seem to think that the way forward is to mix all the races and we'll end up with some sort of 'Sallow' skin super race which will encompass all the good traits of each race, they even call this the person of the Future. HELLO, this mixing has Already been done
result= No super race, I see it as a backward step in Evolution0 -
So if most people think the earth is flat its so?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that we should copy the activities of Amin and Mugabe?
There are reportedly 5 million Neo-nazis in Europe, the definition of what is considered a Neo Nazi ,i do not know.
No, I am not saying we should copy Amin or Mugabe ,what i am saying is that I have little sympathy for the Whites and Asians in those countries, my personal opinion is that if they are not welcome there , then they should return to their ancestral countries.0 -
Invasion;the onset ,appearance, or spread of something... sounds about right to me .. I'll stick with invasion.
You can stick what ever you like, but until a foreign army shows up, I think it fair to say you making a rather massive leap.There are also remnants of white people in pakistan, they are thought to be related to Alexander the Greats army,they are few in number though.
Indo-European refers to language..Indo European languages are spoken in India,Iran ,Europe and the Caucasus region.
Which shows the diversity of the place.I don't know anything about the KKK or the Nation of Islam working together..the only reason for this as far as I can see is that both have the same Ideal for their relative peoples.
Both were far right groups who worked together. So your defense of the EDL not being far right, because it has some black members, doesn't really work, as Black people can be members of the far right and some will even work with white supremacists.Regarding the media.. I find Bloggers to be a very good source of European local news,you'll find stuff in these blogs that might not be reported through the main media .
Anyone can set up a blog and say whatever they want. I can set up one right now and say Aliens have landed.Just because they are not mainstream does not mean they are spouting nonsense.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2237941.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2237943.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2237940.ece?Submitted=true
The above articles are only a small sample of what is actually going on but I think you will find that muslim is mentioned
Only the 2nd one mentions Muslims. The other just mentions Asians, who can be of many different Religions or none. Still, there seems to be no link to Islamic (or any other) ideology behind these crimes, so I don't see how there religion is particularly relevant.There are Muslim ,Blacks and the Whites they are referring to are East Europeans and Albanians but the main abusers are the Asians and blacks and the vast majority of the abusers are Non Indigenous men.
You see, none of your links say this. In fact, one of them made it very clear, that the groups were actually very diverse, and directly contradicts what your saying. You really need to look at your own sources, several of them have contradicted you assertions, and none of them have mentioned what you have said above.The BNP actually helped sort out the problem in one town, the police had no interest in getting involved until the BNP decided to inform the press and only then the the Police become involved.
I find your logic that the BNP are only doing this for political gain to be Worrying,maybe they just actually care about the Indigenous people.
There politicians, of course there doing it for political gain. As I said before, if they actually cared, they would go after all the groups regardless of race.I think that the no go areas actually do exist,i have provided you with evidence to that effect.
Nope, you haven't. You provided a right wing blog, and a discussion about no go area's. None of which provided any conclusive proof of there existence.From my own personal experience, I had a gun put to my head in a predominately non indigenous area of London .I later learned it was a common occurrence for white people to be robbed there.
So no Black or Asian people ever get robbed then? Any proof that they were only targeting White people, as opposed to being opportunistic?
As I said earlier, its very possible that more White people get robbed, as there the majority and a criminal is more likley to run into a White person, as opposed to a Black or Asian person.They have tested men on the West coast of Ireland and they have been found to have the lowest admix in Europe ,so if you want to know what your ancestors looked like thousand of years ago , go west of Eire.
Actually, I would have to look towards the Sub Continent and the Middle East.Some people seem to think that the way forward is to mix all the races and we'll end up with some sort of 'Sallow' skin super race which will encompass all the good traits of each race, they even call this the person of the Future. HELLO, this mixing has Already been done
result= No super race, I see it as a backward step in Evolution
Evolution is a random process with no inherent goal. All that matters is survival. There can be no backwards steps as such in evolution. If you survive you procreated and pass on your genes and thats it. Perhaps, you need to read The Origin of Species Charles Darwin.
Also, we are members of the Human Race, all this race theory nonsense has long since been put to rest of reputable scientists, and links have already been posted in this thread showing how insignificant racial differences ultimately are.0 -
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There are reportedly 5 million Neo-nazis in Europe, the definition of what is considered a Neo Nazi ,i do not know.
No, I am not saying we should copy Amin or Mugabe ,what i am saying is that I have little sympathy for the Whites and Asians in those countries, my personal opinion is that if they are not welcome there , then they should return to their ancestral countries.
Africa is every persons ancestral home if you go back far enough
. 0 -
There are reportedly 5 million Neo-nazis in Europe,
Given that the population of Europe is close on 750 million, that would give us somewhere around two thirds of one percent.
I think its safe to say that this is a tiny minority who should be considered as being statistically insignificant.
Indeed, given that much of your argument seems to stem around protecting the established culture, I'm left somewhat confused about why you'd mention this.
Are you saying "look how insignificant this movement is"? That would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
Are you saying "this movement is a growing minority which is significant enough to be a threat to the established culture, and should therefore be opposed"? Again, this would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
Are you perhaps suggesting that a minority that is (vastly) divergent from the established culture should be nurtured and accepted? Again, this would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
I'm honestly left wondering. What, exactly, are we supposed to take from the fact that a comparatively insignificant percentage of people are classified as being of a socio-political group that the vast majority apparently find repulsive?
ETA: My figures are slightly out. THe European population is estimated at closer to 850 million, which would reduce the percentage who are NN to below .6%. The population of the EU alone is over 500 million, so even if you confused the two, we still only get to 1%.0 -
What a predictably generalist answer. A stock answer, if you will. And wholly deluded
This "culture" for foreigners is alien to them, is it? Nope. Let me see . . . for example, 2nd and 3rd generation Pakistani people: They introduced some of the most popular food in Britain, enjoy their influential music, might like soccer, LOVE cricket. They might not drink and might be averted to "fighting". I myself rarely drink (I'd say last beer I had was in Cardiff on March 21st) and don't scrap.
I'd bet you'd find that there is quite a sizeable movement in the UK that is not exactly what you might call 'Monarchist'. And no, I don't mean "foreigners" either.
Take a look at Britons and Irish who settle in Spain, its islands and Portugal. Since you're conveniently generalising, how 'integrated' do you think these people are? I would say in my experience they're terrible at it.
I know British folk in Oslo who have never once taken up the language and only hang out with the ex-pat community. No biggie really.
You seem to be lumping "foreigners" and "muslims" as the one. A common misconception (and deliberate) amongst the likes of the BNP, UKIP etc and their apologists. The demographics of "Foreigners" goes a lot further than 'muslims' v non-muslims. Exaggerating the influence of a strict form of any religion does nothing to convince either.
So have "whites".
Its a plan then, is it? Like Mark Steyn, you should actually open your eyes instead of adopting the paranoid misleading approach. For example, a past example of the ghettoes in Oslo given in a past piece by him. I lived five years in Oslo. I know the city very well. Ghettoes? There are none.
When you suggest an intention of "foreigners" to outnumber "indigenous" Britons, I breath a sigh of relief as its a delusion and consign this tosh to the bullsh drawer.
I'm from Jewish stock on my mother's side. Sephardi-Jewish stock at that. My father's side isn't. Should I bugger off somewhere? Neuter myself?
I never said that the British Culture was exclusive to the them or Alien to the immigrants.Parts of British culture is also the culture of many other nationalities.
I mentioned 'Fighting' as the british are known for their Great fighting spirit , maybe thats to do with them conquering a fair share of the world at one time but people do have the impression that they like a bit of a drink and a scrap.
I agree that there is many in England that would see the monarchy as an out dated institution ,they don't seem to have much power nowadays.its more of a traditional thing and also a tourist attraction.
A lot of these people that immigrate to Spain and Portugal to form their own little enclaves and have very little knowledge of the language, do so because they feel like strangers in their own countries(White flight)
I am not an apologist for the BNP or the UKIP but I do understand where they are coming from.
Where are the 'White' no go areas for Whites in England ?
Mark Steyn, I have never heard of, but did look him up.
Is he paranoid? I don't know
Are there Ghettos in Oslo ,again I don't know but I did find this.
http://www.arthurkemp.com/?p=105 looks like there is problems there as well.
Jews are also worried about miscegenation .A poll of American Jews that i seen stated that 75% of American Jews thought the biggest threat to the Jews was Jews marrying outside the faith
It is your choice who you want to procreate with.0 -
Given that the population of Europe is close on 750 million, that would give us somewhere around two thirds of one percent.
I think its safe to say that this is a tiny minority who should be considered as being statistically insignificant.
Indeed, given that much of your argument seems to stem around protecting the established culture, I'm left somewhat confused about why you'd mention this.
Are you saying "look how insignificant this movement is"? That would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
Are you saying "this movement is a growing minority which is significant enough to be a threat to the established culture, and should therefore be opposed"? Again, this would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
Are you perhaps suggesting that a minority that is (vastly) divergent from the established culture should be nurtured and accepted? Again, this would seem to undermine your argument thus far.
I'm honestly left wondering. What, exactly, are we supposed to take from the fact that a comparatively insignificant percentage of people are classified as being of a socio-political group that the vast majority apparently find repulsive?
ETA: My figures are slightly out. THe European population is estimated at closer to 850 million, which would reduce the percentage who are NN to below .6%. The population of the EU alone is over 500 million, so even if you confused the two, we still only get to 1%.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
the population of EU-27 is under 500 million
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+eu0 -
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
the population of EU-27 is under 500 million
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+eu
While you were busy with all the eye-rolling, yopu appear to have missed where it says on the page that those figures were based on 2007 estimates.
Eurostat estimated the figure at 499.4 million as of Jan 1, 2009, with the figure rising over the course of the year
But fine. Lets take your 2-year-out-of-date 495 million, rather than the official, current estimates. My 1% figure that was derived from 5 million out of "over 500 million" becomes...1.01%.
A whole hundredth of a percent....that sure showed me how wrong I was with my figures....thanks.0 -
You can stick what ever you like, but until a foreign army shows up, I think it fair to say you making a rather massive leap.
Which shows the diversity of the place.
Both were far right groups who worked together. So your defense of the EDL not being far right, because it has some black members, doesn't really work, as Black people can be members of the far right and some will even work with white supremacists.
Anyone can set up a blog and say whatever they want. I can set up one right now and say Aliens have landed.
Only the 2nd one mentions Muslims. The other just mentions Asians, who can be of many different Religions or none. Still, there seems to be no link to Islamic (or any other) ideology behind these crimes, so I don't see how there religion is particularly relevant.
You see, none of your links say this. In fact, one of them made it very clear, that the groups were actually very diverse, and directly contradicts what your saying. You really need to look at your own sources, several of them have contradicted you assertions, and none of them have mentioned what you have said above.
There politicians, of course there doing it for political gain. As I said before, if they actually cared, they would go after all the groups regardless of race.
Nope, you haven't. You provided a right wing blog, and a discussion about no go area's. None of which provided any conclusive proof of there existence.
So no Black or Asian people ever get robbed then? Any proof that they were only targeting White people, as opposed to being opportunistic?
As I said earlier, its very possible that more White people get robbed, as there the majority and a criminal is more likley to run into a White person, as opposed to a Black or Asian person.
Actually, I would have to look towards the Sub Continent and the Middle East.
Evolution is a random process with no inherent goal. All that matters is survival. There can be no backwards steps as such in evolution. If you survive you procreated and pass on your genes and thats it. Perhaps, you need to read The Origin of Species Charles Darwin.
Also, we are members of the Human Race, all this race theory nonsense has long since been put to rest of reputable scientists, and links have already been posted in this thread showing how insignificant racial differences ultimately are.
The White people in Pakistan/Afghanistan are more of a throwback -meaning their parents are just like the locals but every now and again a European child is born.The Whites that have invaded/migrated to that area have now mostly disappeared through miscegenation .
You mention the diversity of Pakistan as though it is good thing but if you are a Christian there you are subjected to high levels of discrimination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TQ1gj8GQo&feature=related
The Nation of Islam and the KKK may be right wing groups but their relative groups are race based
Nation of Islam = Coloureds KKK are White
The EDL are a White and Black group with no affiliation to the BNP, a gray area group
I'll give you two examples of stories that I learnt of through blogs
http://tottenhamlad.blogspot.com/2006/10/remembering-charlene-downes.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6123014.stm
both of these cases initially only received regional coverage but were widely reported by bloggers and as you can see these stories are in fact truth.
The religion of the people abusing the White British teenagers is irrelevant ,what is relevant is that it is being carried out by Non Indigenous British and if you read the articles it is being done foreign men that have a very low opinion of the indigenous 'White' women.
There is plenty of information out there regarding this if you really like to disprove what I have said,provide me with the information to the contrary instead of just fobbing it off.
The BNP have mentioned all the groups that are involved in abusing the White kids, the main protagonist's being Asians.
My apologies for directing you towards the West of Ireland to see how your ancestors look ,i did not realise you were Asian
Darwin theories are exactly that.. "Theories" and considered racist by many today.
For every Scientist that says "Race' is insignificant there is one who will state the opposite.
The 'Out of Africa' is also a Theory.
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/malcolmj/bones-found-near-tbilisi-rewrite-human-evolution-georgia-0 -
The White people in Pakistan/Afghanistan are more of a throwback -meaning their parents are just like the locals but every now and again a European child is born.The Whites that have invaded/migrated to that area have now mostly disappeared through miscegenation .
Oh deary me, a "European" child? This is getting very silly.You mention the diversity of Pakistan as though it is good thing but if you are a Christian there you are subjected to high levels of discrimination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TQ1gj8GQo&feature=related
Diversity is a good thing. The Christians are discriminated against by those, who are against such diversity.The Nation of Islam and the KKK may be right wing groups but their relative groups are race based
Nation of Islam = Coloureds KKK are White
The EDL are a White and Black group with no affiliation to the BNP, a gray area group
Nope, still very much a far right group, they don't need to be affiliated with the BNP or anything.I'll give you two examples of stories that I learnt of through blogs
http://tottenhamlad.blogspot.com/2006/10/remembering-charlene-downes.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6123014.stm
both of these cases initially only received regional coverage but were widely reported by bloggers and as you can see these stories are in fact truth.
Again, anyone can write a blog. They are not exactly reputable sources. There more about opinion, rather than the news.
Also, you seem to only have a issue with crimes committed by certain groups, as if they are the only people committing crimes. As I have said earlier, pretty much anyone can be racists.The religion of the people abusing the White British teenagers is irrelevant ,what is relevant is that it is being carried out by Non Indigenous British and if you read the articles it is being done foreign men that have a very low opinion of the indigenous 'White' women.
So why do they target Asian women as well then? That information was in your article as well btw. Again, a criminal is a criminal, why does there race matter?There is plenty of information out there regarding this if you really like to disprove what I have said,provide me with the information to the contrary instead of just fobbing it off.
Not fobbing anything off. Your own links provide information that the groups were diverse. So you undermined your own point. You decided to concentrate on just Asian groups, and then provided a video talking about various other groups of different races engaging in the same crime.The BNP have mentioned all the groups that are involved in abusing the White kids, the main protagonist's being Asians.
So, again why does there race matter then? Why concentrate on Asians, like you clearly have done so? Why does that matter so much? There criminals plain and simple.My apologies for directing you towards the West of Ireland to see how your ancestors look ,i did not realise you were Asian
NP.Darwin theories are exactly that.. "Theories" and considered racist by many today.
Are you being serious.... Its a proven theory, and a well established scientific fact.For every Scientist that says "Race' is insignificant there is one who will state the opposite.
No, I think you will find that "Scientists" willing to state something so silly, are few and far between.The 'Out of Africa' is also a Theory.
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/malcolmj/bones-found-near-tbilisi-rewrite-human-evolution-georgia-
I am actually aware of those recent discoveries. The problem here is that they people involved have said that the migration to Asian, ended up with them going back to Africa. Still it is early days yet in that regard.0 -
Oh deary me, a "European" child? This is getting very silly.
Diversity is a good thing. The Christians are discriminated against by those, who are against such diversity.
Nope, still very much a far right group, they don't need to be affiliated with the BNP or anything.
Again, anyone can write a blog. They are not exactly reputable sources. There more about opinion, rather than the news.
Also, you seem to only have a issue with crimes committed by certain groups, as if they are the only people committing crimes. As I have said earlier, pretty much anyone can be racists.
So why do they target Asian women as well then? That information was in your article as well btw. Again, a criminal is a criminal, why does there race matter?
Not fobbing anything off. Your own links provide information that the groups were diverse. So you undermined your own point. You decided to concentrate on just Asian groups, and then provided a video talking about various other groups of different races engaging in the same crime.
So, again why does there race matter then? Why concentrate on Asians, like you clearly have done so? Why does that matter so much? There criminals plain and simple.
NP.
Are you being serious.... Its a proven theory, and a well established scientific fact.
No, I think you will find that "Scientists" willing to state something so silly, are few and far between.
I am actually aware of those recent discoveries. The problem here is that they people involved have said that the migration to Asian, ended up with them going back to Africa. Still it is early days yet in that regard.
What I meant to say there was 'European Looking 'child. What has happened there, is over time the Whites have been absorbed into the local populace, the reality is that they have practically disappeared through miscegenation.
I am sure you are Pro diversity but how pro diversity would you be if there were millions of us moving to your country and our criminals started raping your women ,abusing you kids, letting off bombs and selling drugs ?.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKmzNpUBM4
EDL doing some fairly un Far right stuff..note the Black people in the vid .
provide me with the link to darwins proven theories ?
I totally disagree with you regarding blogs.. the blogs you labeled 'Far Right' you seem to have only done this because of the type of crime that they are reporting..I consider them concerned 'European Citizens' and most of them provide Links to mainstream or reputable sources, so this hardly makes them Far Right.
The Number of kids being abused and their ages range from 11 years old up to 17 is 10,000 +
Another stat I have seen is that a Woman in Sweden is Four times more likely to be Raped by an immigrant that a Swedish male
I think you will agree that if this was going on in your country ,you would be concerned.
All the groups pimping and abusing the kids are Non Indigenous.
Its muslims targeting Hindu and Sikhs not the best of friends, they don't Pimp their own women they shepherd them around.
Going by the logic of the Pc Science Male and Females don't really exist either as there is so little difference in their genetic makeup.Is Male Female also a social construct?
A complete link for the..Tbilisi bones find
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/malcolmj/bones-found-near-tbilisi-rewrite-human-evolution-georgia-%E2%80%9Ccradle-first-europeans%E2%80%9D0 -
It would seem that you misunderstand what the term "theory" means in the scientific sense.
The alternative would be that you understand it just fine, and are deliberately misrepresenting it.0 -
...and our criminals started ...
I wouldn't think anything about you because of what criminals sharing your ethnicity did.Another stat I have seen is that a Woman in Sweden is Four times more likely to be Raped by an immigrant that a Swedish male
I think you will agree that if this was going on in your country ,you would be concerned.
I'd hope that anyone here would be equally concerned if someone suggested we treat all immigrants on the basis of the deviant few....that we engage in ethnic discrimination.
Are you suggesting that people should engage in ethnic discrimination? If not, then what, exactly, is the point of your argument?
If its not clear...I'm asking this as a mod.
I'd like you to give a straight answer....you appear to be trying to imply that racially or ethnically discriminatory policies would be a good thing and I'm asking you to come straight out and either tell us that this is what you're saying, or to explain clearly what your point is if I'm mistaken.
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Join Date:Posts: 9866
The 'Out of Africa' is also a Theory.
http://heritage-key.com/blogs/malcolmj/bones-found-near-tbilisi-rewrite-human-evolution-georgia-
My Irony-O-Meter has just exploded.
The only semi crediable alternative theory to the Out of Africa model is the Multiregionalist one, which in order avoid speciation resulting from geographical isolation and arrive at a single species of modern humans, is completely dependant on far greater levels of gene flow between diverse populations.
Given your attitude towards what you have previously termed 'crossbreeding' the ironic nature of your hand waving dismissal of the Out of Africa theory in favour of Multiregionalism is positively hilarious.0 -
What I meant to say there was 'European Looking 'child. What has happened there, is over time the Whites have been absorbed into the local populace, the reality is that they have practically disappeared through miscegenation.
There still there, they just look different is all.I am sure you are Pro diversity but how pro diversity would you be if there were millions of us moving to your country and our criminals started raping your women ,abusing you kids, letting off bombs and selling drugs ?.
I would arrest the criminals involved, as the vast majority of people immigrating would be great people who wouldn't be hurting no one.
Secondly, trying to blame everyone from a community for the actions of a few, wouldn't hep things, and would probably have the opposite effect.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKmzNpUBM4
EDL doing some fairly un Far right stuff..note the Black people in the vid .English Defence League: chaotic alliance stirs up trouble on streets
Football fans are being recruited to join protests against Muslims. How worried should the authorities be?
The rise of the English Defence League, whose protests against Islamism have sparked violent city centre clashes, has been chaotic but rapid.
Three months ago, no one had heard of the EDL. But the organisation has risen to prominence in a spate of civil unrest in which far-right activists, football hooligans and known racists have fought running battles with Asian youths. The leadership insists they are not racist and just want to "peacefully protest against militant Islam".
Yet at EDL events, skinheads have raised Nazi salutes and other EDL supporters have chanted racist slogans such as "I hate Pakis more than you". One protest in Luton in May ended with scores of people attacking Asian businesses, smashing cars and threatening passersby.
Insiders have talked of plans to enlist football fans to march for the cause on the basis that "you need an army for a war".
With the organisation's confidence growing and plans for rallies in Leeds, Manchester and tomorrow in Trafalgar Square, concerned police chiefs and government ministers are asking what the English Defence League is, and what it wants.
Click here for full article
You continued defense of the EDL as not being of the far right, while entertaining is becoming increasingly bizarre. The activities in the article clearly show the groups to be of the far right.provide me with the link to darwins proven theories ?
I already did, its on on origins of species by Darwin, or I guess you can go here:
Fossil Evidence
However, I think its safe to say that evolution is very much a established fact, with little or no opposition from reputable scientists.I totally disagree with you regarding blogs.. the blogs you labeled 'Far Right' you seem to have only done this because of the type of crime that they are reporting..I consider them concerned 'European Citizens' and most of them provide Links to mainstream or reputable sources, so this hardly makes them Far Right.
I call them as I see them, but why not provide links from those mainstream sources then? Why a blog, that adds there own race obsessed commentary?The Number of kids being abused and their ages range from 11 years old up to 17 is 10,000 +
Another stat I have seen is that a Woman in Sweden is Four times more likely to be Raped by an immigrant that a Swedish male
I think you will agree that if this was going on in your country ,you would be concerned.
I see no particular reason why I should care about the race of a criminal. Criminals need to be arrested, and involving race is at best a pointless waste of time. No need to victimize a whole community due the actions of a few. Make more sense to arrest those doing the crimes.All the groups pimping and abusing the kids are Non Indigenous.
Even the "White" groups?Its muslims targeting Hindu and Sikhs not the best of friends, they don't Pimp their own women they shepherd them around.
None of the link you provide supports this, they just say the girls they go after are Asian.
Also, how about stuff like this?:
UK cases linked to people trafficking
Should we not be worried about people being take from foreign country and being forced in prostitution and forced labour? Maybe it doesn't matter, as the criminals involved in these cases, are from all over the place and not just Muslims and the victims are from foreign countries.Going by the logic of the Pc Science Male and Females don't really exist either as there is so little difference in their genetic makeup.Is Male Female also a social construct?
What the hell are you talking about? Science is not politically correct or incorrect. Its a method.0 -
Since you choose to speak on behalf of an entire diaspora, I'd say you're generalising a tad there, fella.A lot of these people that immigrate to Spain and Portugal to form their own little enclaves and have very little knowledge of the language, do so because they feel like strangers in their own countries(White flight)
I know many in Lanzarote. I coach their rugby side when I'm over a few times a year. Did they migrate because of migration? Erm . . . no :rolleyes:
. . . and answer strongly on behalf of their beliefs . . . ergo an apologist.I am not an apologist for the BNP or the UKIP but I do understand where they are coming from
Have you never been to England or something???Where are the 'White' no go areas for Whites in England ?
He's one of the many who peddle the delusionary 'we're all doomed' lines to suit their own agendae.Mark Steyn, I have never heard of, but did look him up. Is he paranoid? I don't know
No, there aren't.Are there Ghettos in Oslo ,again I don't know but I did find this
http://www.arthurkemp.com/?p=105 looks like there is problems there as well
And for someone who claims not to be an aplogist for the BNP or their ilk, you sure have a funny way of showing it by quoting Arthur Kemp's cherry-picked one-eyed articles.
No, we're not.Jews are also worried about miscegenation0 -
No, we're not.
*Cough*
NAZARETH // A local authority in Israel has announced that it is establishing a special team of youth counsellors and psychologists whose job it will be to identify young Jewish women who are dating Arab men and “rescue” them.
The move by the municipality of Petah Tikva, a city close to Tel Aviv, is the latest in a series of separate – and little discussed – initiatives from official bodies, rabbis, private organisations and groups of Israeli residents to try to prevent interracial dating and marriage.
In a related development, the Israeli media reported this month that residents of Pisgat Zeev, a large Jewish settlement in the midst of Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, had formed a vigilante-style patrol to stop Arab men from mixing with local Jewish girls.
Hostility to intimate relationships developing across Israel’s ethnic divide is shared by many Israeli Jews, who regard such behaviour as a threat to the state’s Jewishness. One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason”.
Since the state’s founding in 1948, analysts have noted, a series of legal and administrative measures have been taken by Israel to limit the possibilities of close links developing between Jewish and Arab citizens, the latter comprising a fifth of the population.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090925/FOREIGN/709249932/1135
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While you were busy with all the eye-rolling, yopu appear to have missed where it says on the page that those figures were based on 2007 estimates.
Eurostat estimated the figure at 499.4 million as of Jan 1, 2009, with the figure rising over the course of the year
But fine. Lets take your 2-year-out-of-date 495 million, rather than the official, current estimates. My 1% figure that was derived from 5 million out of "over 500 million" becomes...1.01%.
A whole hundredth of a percent....that sure showed me how wrong I was with my figures....thanks.
i was rolling eyes at your 800million or so figure
thats quite an increase from near 500...0 -
*Cough*
NAZARETH // A local authority in Israel has announced that it is establishing a special team of youth counsellors and psychologists whose job it will be to identify young Jewish women who are dating Arab men and “rescue” them.
The move by the municipality of Petah Tikva, a city close to Tel Aviv, is the latest in a series of separate – and little discussed – initiatives from official bodies, rabbis, private organisations and groups of Israeli residents to try to prevent interracial dating and marriage.
In a related development, the Israeli media reported this month that residents of Pisgat Zeev, a large Jewish settlement in the midst of Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, had formed a vigilante-style patrol to stop Arab men from mixing with local Jewish girls.
Hostility to intimate relationships developing across Israel’s ethnic divide is shared by many Israeli Jews, who regard such behaviour as a threat to the state’s Jewishness. One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason”.
Since the state’s founding in 1948, analysts have noted, a series of legal and administrative measures have been taken by Israel to limit the possibilities of close links developing between Jewish and Arab citizens, the latter comprising a fifth of the population.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090925/FOREIGN/709249932/1135
It is unfair to present extremists as being representative of a whole community, but the funny thing is that your article actuall doesn't support your pov, as much as you think, as the fact that extremists are engaging in the steps that they are shows, that the average person on the street apparently doesn't share there views.0 -
So Nick Griffin did indeed appear on Question Time two weeks ago, Thurs 22nd Oct.
Should he have been allowed on? and was it a 'political bloodsport' - indeed it was ..
Old mono eyed Nick cannot turn back the clock & make the British people a "Pure blooded-Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Whight-Warlike tribe", anymore than old Adolf could (with his pipe dream) back in the 1930s-40s of a "Blonde haired-Blue eyed-Broad shouldered-Pure Germanic Aryan-Mmaster race" > I don't doubt that some will flock to the ranks of the British National Party (BNP) in Britain & the North, but they are chasing Nick's pipe dream, that hasn't really existed in the british isles since long before the Romans, the Vikings & the Normans started to invade 'these islands' a couple of thousand years ago!
The whole pure British (and/or Irish) race thing is a nonsense.0 -
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So Nick Griffin did indeed appear on Question Time two weeks ago, Thurs 22nd Oct.
Should he have been allowed on? and was it a 'political bloodsport' - indeed it was ..
Old mono eyed Nick cannot turn back the clock & make the British people a "Pure blooded-Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Whight-Warlike tribe", anymore than old Adolf could (with his pipe dream) back in the 1930s-40s of a "Blonde haired-Blue eyed-Broad shouldered-Pure Germanic Aryan-Mmaster race" > I don't doubt that some will flock to the ranks of the British National Party (BNP) in Britain & the North, but they are chasing Nick's pipe dream, that hasn't really existed in the british isles since long before the Romans, the Vikings & the Normans started to invade 'these islands' a couple of thousand years ago!
The whole pure British (and/or Irish) race thing is a nonsense.
Just to correct you the Romans never came to this country only to Britain.
The anglo-saxon invasion of Britain was probably the most important one there in that it involved migration of a lot of Germanic tribes from Northern Germany into Britain forming England and creating Wales and the West country from the displaces indiginous British people.
Any invasions of ireland were only done in small numbers and only enough to form a ruling class/culture. The exception may be the plantation of Ulster where many of their ancestors were British migrants.0
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