BNP leader to appear on Question Time

PaulieD

wes wrote: »

It is unfair to present extremists as being representative of a whole community, but the funny thing is that your article actuall doesn't support your pov, as much as you think, as the fact that extremists are engaging in the steps that they are shows, that the average person on the street apparently doesn't share there views.

The majority of Israelis object to race mixing.

From the article wrote: »

One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason”.

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

The majority of Israelis object to race mixing.

So? Does that make it right? Are you saying that a majority of Israelis represent a majority of Jews?

PaulieD

Nodin wrote: »

So? Does that make it right?

Did I say that?

Nodin wrote: »

Are you saying that a majority of Israelis represent a majority of Jews?

No.

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

Did I say that?



No.

Then what point are you trying to make?

KaiserMc

bonkey wrote: »

It would seem that you misunderstand what the term "theory" means in the scientific sense.

The alternative would be that you understand it just fine, and are deliberately misrepresenting it.

I was using the word Theory in this context , definition no4 ,contemplation or speculation,
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural.

In Scientific investigations, it is permitted to Invent any hypothesis and, if it explains various large and Independent facts, it rises to the rank of a well grounded Theory.

(Charles Darwin)

KaiserMc

bonkey wrote: »

I wouldn't think anything about you because of what criminals sharing your ethnicity did.




I'd hope that anyone here would be equally concerned if someone suggested we treat all immigrants on the basis of the deviant few....that we engage in ethnic discrimination.

Are you suggesting that people should engage in ethnic discrimination? If not, then what, exactly, is the point of your argument?

If its not clear...I'm asking this as a mod.

I'd like you to give a straight answer....you appear to be trying to imply that racially or ethnically discriminatory policies would be a good thing and I'm asking you to come straight out and either tell us that this is what you're saying, or to explain clearly what your point is if I'm mistaken.

I can only speak for myself,as I have been the victim of a racist/non indigenous perpetrated crime as have 6 other male members of my family ,none of which occurred in Ireland, I tend not to make friends with non Irish people.

bonkey

KaiserMc wrote: »

I was using the word Theory in this context , definition no4 ,contemplation or speculation,
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural.

So in other words, you referred to something which is a scientific theory, but used a meaning of the word theory other then the contextually-implied scientific one...


In modern science, "Theory" is just-about the highest accolade that something can reach. It is, effectively, the gold standard. You don't get better then it.

Your usage of the term was significantly removed from that.

bonkey

KaiserMc wrote: »

I can only speak for myself,as I have been the victim of a racist/non indigenous perpetrated crime as have 6 other male members of my family ,none of which occurred in Ireland, I tend not to make friends with non Irish people.

Then speeak for yourself and answer the question I asked you, please.

Are you trying to suggest that ethnically-discriminatory policies would be a good idea?

I'm not asking you who else you speak for, or why you believe what you believe. I'm asking you to have the simple honesty to state your position clearly.

Lest it not be clear...O'Morris argued earlier that the BNP are racialist...they treat people of different race with equal respect...but that to treat people with less respect because of their race would be racist.

You appear to be arguing in favour of discrimination based on ethnicity., Frankly, I don't care what your experiences or reasons are for that. If you are arguing what you appear to be arguing, then I would put it to you that by the arguments of one of the posters here taking a line similar to you your position is racist.

Racism is not tolerated on this forum.

If thats not your position, I'd like you to make clear that it is not, explain what your position is, and expect to be held to that.

OldJay

PaulieD wrote: »

The majority of Israelis object to race mixing.

:rolleyes:
Prove that.
Edited rest of post

OldJay

PaulieD wrote: »

*Cough*

Hope you covered your mouth.

Apart from cherry-picking a mere drop in the ocean,you're adhering to that old chestnut of mixing up Jews with Israelis like Muslims & Immigrants, Immigrants & Asylum Seekers and of course, Immigrant & Illegal Immigrants.

KaiserMc

bonkey wrote: »

Then speeak for yourself and answer the question I asked you, please.

Are you trying to suggest that ethnically-discriminatory policies would be a good idea?

I'm not asking you who else you speak for, or why you believe what you believe. I'm asking you to have the simple honesty to state your position clearly.

Lest it not be clear...O'Morris argued earlier that the BNP are racialist...they treat people of different race with equal respect...but that to treat people with less respect because of their race would be racist.

You appear to be arguing in favour of discrimination based on ethnicity., Frankly, I don't care what your experiences or reasons are for that. If you are arguing what you appear to be arguing, then I would put it to you that by the arguments of one of the posters here taking a line similar to you your position is racist.

Racism is not tolerated on this forum.

If thats not your position, I'd like you to make clear that it is not, explain what your position is, and expect to be held to that.

No i do not believe in Supremacism .
The only time I mentioned discrimination was in reference to Christians in Pakistan..Nowhere did I imply that this is what I would be in favour of doing.

KaiserMc

marco_polo wrote: »

My Irony-O-Meter has just exploded.

The only semi crediable alternative theory to the Out of Africa model is the Multiregionalist one, which in order avoid speciation resulting from geographical isolation and arrive at a single species of modern humans, is completely dependant on far greater levels of gene flow between diverse populations.

Given your attitude towards what you have previously termed 'crossbreeding' the ironic nature of your hand waving dismissal of the Out of Africa theory in favour of Multiregionalism is positively hilarious.

I really don't care where we came from thousand of years ago , be it Russia..the Caucasus region or Africa ..I have no ties to these areas ,no yearning to belong to these areas. I'm from Ireland and this is the country I care about although I do have an affinity for other European countries, Ireland is my main concern.

PaulieD

Justind wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Prove that.

I already did.

From the article wrote: »

One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason”.

More than half of Israeli jews are against race mixing, ie the majority of Israelis.

OldJay

PaulieD wrote: »

I already did

More than half of Israeli jews are against race mixing, ie the majority of Israelis.

Thats not proof. Its a non-specific poll.
A poll can be worded any which way the contractor wants it to be.
In fact, in 2004 a poll was run through Iraq asking Iraqi people their views on the invasion. The same poll was used by both sides of the argument for and against the invasion to achieve different results.
For example, was the poll run both in Florentin and Bavli? Results from those areas were . . ?
Unless you can give the criteria (how many people allegedly represent the entire country) and demographs used (regions polled, areas within those regions polled and their answers), your so-called 'proof' is nothing but a regurgitated generalism from the press and remains so.

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

I already did.



More than half of Israeli jews are against race mixing, ie the majority of Israelis.

And again - your point?

getz

PaulieD wrote: »

I already did.



More than half of Israeli jews are against race mixing, ie the majority of Israelis.

the problem i have with this is...being jewish is not a race its a religion,jews no longer share a common ancestor, as jews are now from all races,i can remember docking in haifa in the late 1960s ,and some of the jewish dockers even being black,

sceptre

The problem I have with the survey is not too much to do with anything that anyone has mentioned when querying this phantom questonnaire. but important all the same.

To illustrate, paraphrasing,

Poster A:
<Over 3/4 of American jewish people have a problem with their people having children with outsiders/non-jewish people. I read that in a survey.> (note: let's call this "survey 1")

Poster X, Y, Z:
<other stuff, asking about the survey I guess>

Poster A:
<Here's a link to a story that mentions a survey not related to the above (which I haven't linked to) that says that over half of Israeli jewish people have a severe problem with their people having children with outsiders/non-jewish people.> (note: let's call this "survey 2")


Firstly, the first one (survey 1) isn't backed up in any way. Hence it's hearsay at complete best.

Secondly, all the websites I can find on the Internet that make reference to "survey 2" use the same one-line reference with none of them linking to the actual survey or saying who carried it out so we can have a looksee.

I'm a big fan of first principles. I don't need to disassemble it as some people appear to want to but I'd like to know for definite it actually exists. I don't particularly care but I'm a curious little kitty.

And then.... and then.... I'm not sure how it's relevant in any way to Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time. But my cat-killing curiosity would like to see if survey 2 exists anyway. Oh and also survey 1, curiosity seeker, remember?

And after that I guess there's the more on-topic stuff. You know, for kicks.

PaulieD

getz wrote: »

the problem i have with this is...being jewish is not a race its a religion,jews no longer share a common ancestor, as jews are now from all races,i can remember docking in haifa in the late 1960s ,and some of the jewish dockers even being black,

Tell that to the Jewish kid on question time who referred to Jews as "my people."

Anyway, Ive opened a can of worms with this one. I was simply pointing out that Jews do have a problem with race mixing, contrary to what another poster stated. I will link to the original article and ride off into the sunset.

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.


The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.


http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2007/04/02/israeli-racism-marriage-to-an-arab-is-national-treason/

marco_polo

PaulieD wrote: »

Tell that to the Jewish kid on question time who referred to Jews as "my people."

Anyway, Ive opened a can of worms with this one. I was simply pointing out that Jews do have a problem with race mixing, contrary to what another poster stated. I will link to the original article and ride off into the sunset.

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.


The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.


http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2007/04/02/israeli-racism-marriage-to-an-arab-is-national-treason/

I think what may be going on here is that people have forgotten that it was not you that brought up the topic originally (it was KaiserMc).

However I have to say your efforts to find links to back up aspects of KaiserMc posts on interracial marraige do tend to leave the impression that you are somewhat sympathetic towards some of his views on the topic. Propably not fair, but that is how the thread is reading.

The problem is that your own views on the matter are currently somewhat ambiguous.

PaulieD wrote: »

Justind wrote: »

KaiserMc wrote: »

............................

Jews are also worried about miscegenation .A poll of American Jews that i seen stated that 75% of American Jews thought the biggest threat to the Jews was Jews marrying outside the faith
.

.......................

No, we're not.

*Cough*

NAZARETH // A local authority in Israel has announced that it is establishing a special team of youth counsellors and psychologists whose job it will be to identify young Jewish women who are dating Arab men and “rescue” them.

The move by the municipality of Petah Tikva, a city close to Tel Aviv, is the latest in a series of separate – and little discussed – initiatives from official bodies, rabbis, private organisations and groups of Israeli residents to try to prevent interracial dating and marriage.
In a related development, the Israeli media reported this month that residents of Pisgat Zeev, a large Jewish settlement in the midst of Palestinian neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, had formed a vigilante-style patrol to stop Arab men from mixing with local Jewish girls.

Hostility to intimate relationships developing across Israel’s ethnic divide is shared by many Israeli Jews, who regard such behaviour as a threat to the state’s Jewishness. One of the few polls on the subject, in 2007, found that more than half of Israeli Jews believed intermarriage should be equated with “national treason”.

Since the state’s founding in 1948, analysts have noted, a series of legal and administrative measures have been taken by Israel to limit the possibilities of close links developing between Jewish and Arab citizens, the latter comprising a fifth of the population.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090925/FOREIGN/709249932/1135

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

Anyway, Ive opened a can of worms with this one. I was simply pointing out that Jews do have a problem with race mixing, contrary to what another poster stated. I will link to the original article and ride off into the sunset.

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.


The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.


http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2007/04/02/israeli-racism-marriage-to-an-arab-is-national-treason/

No, some Jews.......Not all Jews.

PaulieD

marco_polo wrote: »

I think what may be going on here is that people have forgotten that it was not you that brought up the topic originally (it was KaiserMc).

Thanks for pointing that out to the other readers. I probably should have made that point earlier on myself.

marco_polo wrote: »

However I have to say your efforts to find links to back up aspects of KaiserMc posts on interracial marraige do tend to leave the impression that you are somewhat sympathetic towards some of his views on the topic.

To be perfectly frank, who am I to tell others whom they can and cannot fall in love with and start a family? To me personally, race mixing is a non issue.

marco_polo wrote: »

Propably not fair, but that is how the thread is reading.

I was pointing out the inaccuracies an other posters statements.

marco_polo wrote: »

The problem is that your own views on the matter are currently somewhat ambiguous.

As I said, I dont really have an opinion on race mixing. Whatever two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home, is none of my business.