BNP leader to appear on Question Time

Fratton Fred

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Oh, stop being so Daily Express.

The England/Britain of Shakespeare, Wordsworth,Wimbledon,Ascot, Henley, royalty, Opera, cricket on the Village Green etc is under no threat at all.

Nor is the Britain of Blur, Oasis, Tracey Emin, football, a few bevvies with the mates and a weekend in Blackpool under any threat either.

Whilst i agree with your post, I would suggest that a lot of it is under threat, but under threat from the incoming culture of kids born to gain points on housing lists, left to become ferrel and growing up with little or no respect for other people as opposed to the culture coming in from immigrants who do, indeed, quite often love Cricket, Royalty and Henley Regatta.

Rowley Birkin QC

I fully agree with letting him have some airtime with some seasoned politicians, it's the equivalent to handing him a length of rope.

Unfortunately those that vote for the BNP will likely see Griffins inevitable implosion under tough questioning, reason and logic as further justification of their "them against us" attitude.

Will this be on the iPlayer soon afterwards? I won't get to watch it live but will want to see it afterwards.

fcussen

bigkev49 wrote: »

I fully agree with letting him have some airtime with some seasoned politicians, it's the equivalent to handing him a length of rope.

Unfortunately those that vote for the BNP will likely see Griffins inevitable implosion under tough questioning, reason and logic as further justification of their "them against us" attitude.

People said the same thing about Gerry Adams in the 1980s

ejmaztec

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6885871.ece

I wonder whether Griffin will actually make it into the building? The mob seems to be preparing itself.

Thirdfox

bigkev49 wrote: »

I fully agree with letting him have some airtime with some seasoned politicians, it's the equivalent to handing him a length of rope.

Unfortunately those that vote for the BNP will likely see Griffins inevitable implosion under tough questioning, reason and logic as further justification of their "them against us" attitude.

Will this be on the iPlayer soon afterwards? I won't get to watch it live but will want to see it afterwards.

Like Le Pen?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8320492.stm

And television has served the party well. In 1984, the leader of the National Front Jean-Marie Le Pen (father of Marine) saw support for his party double overnight after being questioned on the leading political programme L'Heure de Verite (the Hour of Truth) - not dissimilar to the BBC's Question Time.

Experts say his credible performance helped to legitimise his views and Mr Le Pen himself credited the programme with boosting his popularity, calling it "the hour that changed everything".

Though I am in favour of letting the man talk. The people voted for his party and he apparently represents the views of 1 million people in Britain. I just hope the other politicians have the debating standard necessary to show how wrong his policies are.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". Free market of ideas and all that (though just like the financial markets - regulations need to be enforced )

MysticalRain

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Let's protect democracy by curtailing free speech for those we don't believe in!


David Irving was going to speak in NUIG and the Socialist Party/SWP/Stickies contacted AntiFa to stop him getting in, in the end the college had to shut down the whole thing as they coudn't guarantee Irving's safety. Utter bollocks in my opinion, such ideas are like mushrooms; they grow when kept in the dark and fed ****. SHining light on them destroys them. By curtailing freedom of expression they are doing as much to honor Hitler's memory as the fascists are. I'd much rather see such ideas debated in public rather than told to an audience without any opposition.

That's funny coming from the same socialists who have no problems with Jew-hating Muslim extremists being allowed to say their piece.

deadhead13

Thirdfox wrote: »

Though I am in favour of letting the man talk. The people voted for his party and he apparently represents the views of 1 million people in Britain. I just hope the other politicians have the debating standard necessary to show how wrong his policies are.

I would agree with that. Having him on programme like Question Time is in a sense - give enough rope and he will inevitably hang himself. Its inevitable because the logic and philosophy behind the ideals of his party are bogus and just wouldn't stand up to any serious scrutiny.

Whereas excluding him lets Griffin set his own agenda in BNP websites, publications, public meetings..etc without been challenged.

irish_bob

the recent electoral success of the BNP is a result of labour,s failure to consider the concerns and views of a significant section of its traditional core vote , the white northern working class , large increases in emmigration have resulted in theese communities feeling marginalised and thier traditional employment prospects being threatended , it may not be a sophisticated or even a realtistic view but its a real and widely held one none the less , labour need to start listening to the ordinary northern working class a whole lot more and less to the london based pc liberal multiculturalist chattering class or the likes of the BNP will further increase its support , vacums are always filled by someone

Acacia

While I despise the man and his party, he has to be allowed on air. That's democracy. Hopefully, his arguments will be torn to shreds, and if not at least the BNP can't go around bleating about being censored and victimised.

Imagine how much they would milk it if they were banned from appearing? They would only use it to bolster their image as the underdogs of British politics, with their views being censored because of some ''multicultural conspiracy..."

Let him on so they can't argue that at least.

The Saint

MysticalRain wrote: »

That's funny coming from the same socialists who have no problems with Jew-hating Muslim extremists being allowed to say their piece.

Can you say what you are referring to specifically? Just curious.

the_syco

Just watched http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8321199.stm and it makes me think: these same people will probably have protested against any oppression of their freedom, but won't see the irony of protesting against freedom of speech.

Wonder how edited the 22:35 showing will be?

Euro_Kraut

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Let's protect democracy by curtailing free speech for those we don't believe in!


David Irving was going to speak in NUIG and the Socialist Party/SWP/Stickies contacted AntiFa to stop him getting in, in the end the college had to shut down the whole thing as they coudn't guarantee Irving's safety. Utter bollocks in my opinion, such ideas are like mushrooms; they grow when kept in the dark and fed ****. SHining light on them destroys them. By curtailing freedom of expression they are doing as much to honor Hitler's memory as the fascists are. I'd much rather see such ideas debated in public rather than told to an audience without any opposition.

The same folks managed to stop that well Bertie Ahern from talking to at the college. Really poor form.

Nodin

MysticalRain wrote: »

That's funny coming from the same socialists who have no problems with Jew-hating Muslim extremists being allowed to say their piece.

Reading the post.........its a great idea. Free too.

sceptre

As they're bursting through the police lines, at least one of those placards says "Stop World War 3 Nuclear Holocaust Over Iraq" and there are other similar ones I can't read that I assume say the same thing.

I suspect somehow that the rentacrowd people were out again as part of the protest.

It's not a particularly PC (or actually humorous) thing to say but I suspect it was on popbitch or something similar I read lately that the big advantage of Nick Griffin is that his existence knocks Gordon Brown down into the position of second-most hated one-eyed man in the UK.

I despise Griffin and his band of space captains. And the cadets who vote for people and policies like that. And a protest is fine. But he's an elected MEP, he's got as much right to have some airtime as the rest of the elected MEPs, even the looney ones. And from a certain perspective it's a good thing to give him some air time - people don't read these days and it's good to confirm on air that, even couched in the carefully trimmed language that he certainly will use in half an hour, he's the leader of a band of racist idiots. It's Nick Griffin's own words in the past that have confirmed this (saying there's no such thing as a black Welshman, referring to gay people as repulsive after the Admiral Duncan pub nail bombing, praising the SS and criticising the RAF for bombing Germany in WW2, saying that global warming is a hoax carried out by the liberal elite as a means of control, statements on the "Holohoax", saying that Islam is a "wicked and vicious faith"... every time he's handed a metaphorical rope he insists on hanging himself with it) and it'll be his own words that will confirm his party as racist idiots in the future.

Bursting through the police lines is partly being done by staunch believers, partly by people who just like a good tussle with the police and partly by people who know that doing that will get them on the news whereas just standing there won't. In this specific case I agree with their principles but not their views and not their practices. Keeping Griffin off the airwaves is the same thing as others arguing that these protestors should also not be given the oxygen of publicity, either in today's protest or other protests they may be involved in with other things. Unfortunately they don't appear to understand that. That's a pity. The best thing to do with these undesirables that Griffin hangs around with is to take the time to explain why they are wrong, not to shout them down with cries of "fascist" or "pig". Not by using the same tactics that fascists themselves have used in the past and probably future. Ironic, as always.

Undergod

Those protestors are idiots. We have to allow freedom of speech, no exceptions.

This, however is interesting. For some reason, they put the BNP as a mildly socialist party, but with extremely authoritarian leanings. I don't think this model takes such things as racism into acocunt though.

Kalashnikov_Kid

I would like people to consider the following quote while watching Question Time tonight - what Nick Griffin really stands for:

In 2000, Nick Griffin travelled to the US to address an organisation called the American Friends of the BNP. Members of the group included David Duke, at the time leader of the Ku Klux Klan, and James W Von Brunn, a white supremacist who killed a security man in an attack on Washington's holocaust museum earlier this year. During Griffin's visit, he outlined his blueprint for making his party electable by dropping its lexicon of "racial purity" and Jewish conspiracies: "The BNP isn't about selling out its ideas, but we are determined to sell them. Basically, that means to use saleable words such as freedom, identity, security, democracy."

Griffin continued: "Once we're in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their mind and say, 'yes, every last one must go'. But if you hold that out as your sole aim to start with, you're not going to get anywhere. So, instead of talking about racial purity, we talk about identity."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-bnp-when-you-watch-question-time-tonight-1806874.html

sceptre

I see Chris Huhne just used the very quote on the show that you highlighted above Kalashnikov_Kid.

Oddly enough, Nick Griffin is, like everyone else on the show, wearing a poppy, even though the Royal British Legion wrote him an open letter earlier this year asking him not to.

He's now using what I call the Justin Barrett defence in reference to standing on the same platform as former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke when he was in the US (saying they're not the same, don't stand for the same things etc).

Kudos to Jack Straw though - saying that as Straw is Justice Minister he will guarantee that Griffin won't be prosecuted for stating his Holocaust beliefs on the show (even though Griffin erroneously states that EU law prohibits it, which it doesn't - he's trying to evade in an effort to appear more reasonable).

Biggins

The show is not over yet and the Mail already has their write-up done: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222331/BNPs-Nick-Griffin-jeered-appears-Question-Time--BBC-faces-Question-Time.html

squonk

I don't think I've ever seen political views that I found more disturbing and frightening. Not a decent political contribution from me here but Nick Griffin and his party really are a bunch of scumbags of the highest order. I never paid much attention to them and knew they were extremist but not to that extent. Never knew they were that deluded also. Say what you like about our political parties here but I'm glad we don't have a prominent Irish equivalent.

dvpower

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

I would like people to consider the following quote while watching Question Time tonight - what Nick Griffin really stands for:

In 2000, Nick Griffin travelled to the US to address an organisation called the American Friends of the BNP. Members of the group included David Duke, at the time leader of the Ku Klux Klan, and James W Von Brunn, a white supremacist who killed a security man in an attack on Washington's holocaust museum earlier this year. During Griffin's visit, he outlined his blueprint for making his party electable by dropping its lexicon of "racial purity" and Jewish conspiracies: "The BNP isn't about selling out its ideas, but we are determined to sell them. Basically, that means to use saleable words such as freedom, identity, security, democracy."

Griffin continued: "Once we're in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their mind and say, 'yes, every last one must go'. But if you hold that out as your sole aim to start with, you're not going to get anywhere. So, instead of talking about racial purity, we talk about identity."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-bnp-when-you-watch-question-time-tonight-1806874.html

David Dimbleby put those quotes to him on the programme. He evaded them.

dreamer_ire

Having just watched the show I have to say I'm somewhat dissapointed. I thought Nick Griffen did ok, managed to keep his cool and deflected anything which could possibly have hurt him. I feel too much of the programme was given to the generality of all that it abhorent about the BNP and that there was no real thrust into the shallowness of BNP policy.

I agree that the BBC was right to invite him onto the show. I had hoped that Griffen would be shown up more but I doubt that those who think like me, those who are BNP voters or those who are disinterested will have changed their opinions of the BNP in any way.

Big winners tonight were the BBC, Griffen to an extent and Bonnie Greer. Not sure anyone else really stood out or made any sucker punches. Pity.... would have loved to have seen his buttons pushed and for the real Nick Griffen to have been exposed. That said I did like the way Bonnie Greer dealt with his drivel on a few occassions.

The_Minister

BNP won that show. Griffen kept his cool, delivered his message in as moderate a way as he could, and refused to be pinned down.

deadhead13

The_Minister wrote: »

BNP won that show. Griffen kept his cool, delivered his message in as moderate a way as he could, and refused to be pinned down.

I don't think him managing not to break into a Dr. Strangelove-style nazi salute means he won the show.

dvpower

The_Minister wrote: »

BNP won that show. Griffen kept his cool, delivered his message in as moderate a way as he could, and refused to be pinned down.

I didn't realise Question Time was a competition.
But if you win it by attracting almost universal opposition and revulsion from the presenter, the panel and the audience, then, yes, he won it.

The_Minister

dvpower wrote: »

I didn't realise Question Time was a competition.
But if you win it by attracting almost universal opposition and revulsion from the presenter, the panel and the audience, then, yes, he won it.

The entire audience and the rest of the panel were out to destroy Griffen, but he avoided the worst punches, and overall has probably gained support.

They were all against him, and IMO, he won. All he had to do to bring the BNP a little bit more into the mainstream was to be savaged and respond in a somewhat coherant way, which, until the last question, he did.

sceptre

Biggins wrote: »

The show is not over yet and the Mail already has their write-up done: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222331/BNPs-Nick-Griffin-jeered-appears-Question-Time--BBC-faces-Question-Time.html

You think that's impressive or surprising!... the timestamp on the Telegraph story is 21:48 BST, 45 minutes before the show started:) Either way, has their views. The story isn't very well written (then again, I'm sure it'll get a later edit from the journo, I personally often find it difficult to write a report on something while it's still going on) but they're more blatantly anti-Griffin than I would have thought (either way, I don't see any concealed sympathy).

anonymous_joe

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Having just watched the show I have to say I'm somewhat dissapointed. I thought Nick Griffen did ok, managed to keep his cool and deflected anything which could possibly have hurt him. I feel too much of the programme was given to the generality of all that it abhorent about the BNP and that there was no real thrust into the shallowness of BNP policy.

I agree that the BBC was right to invite him onto the show. I had hoped that Griffen would be shown up more but I doubt that those who think like me, those who are BNP voters or those who are disinterested will have changed their opinions of the BNP in any way.

Big winners tonight were the BBC, Griffen to an extent and Bonnie Greer. Not sure anyone else really stood out or made any sucker punches. Pity.... would have loved to have seen his buttons pushed and for the real Nick Griffen to have been exposed. That said I did like the way Bonnie Greer dealt with his drivel on a few occassions.

I actually think they all lost.

Everyone made themselves look like a fool.

ArmaniJeanss

sceptre wrote: »

You think that's impressive or surprising!... the timestamp on the Telegraph story is 21:48 BST, 45 minutes before the show started:)

Its filmed between 6.00 and 8.00 - maybe some of the journalists were in the audience (or the editing suite) and thus can put together a 'review' based on whats likely to be shown in the edited hour.

sceptre

Aha, thanks ArmaniJeanss and denon, didn't know it's pre-recorded. Makes perfect sense. I'm sure with their own deadlines that this is probably exactly what happens.

j1smithy

sceptre wrote: »

You think that's impressive or surprising!... the timestamp on the Telegraph story is 21:48 BST, 45 minutes before the show started:) Either way, has their views. The story isn't very well written (then again, I'm sure it'll get a later edit from the journo, I personally often find it difficult to write a report on something while it's still going on) but they're more blatantly anti-Griffin than I would have thought (either way, I don't see any concealed sympathy).

It didn't go out live, time delay of about an hour and a half. I suspect journalists were part of the audience.