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BNP leader to appear on Question Time

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    #122
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    That's correct PaulieD and you wonder why that is.
    Nodin?Tabloid newspapers are not a great source of information.
    I think they are just concerned what immigration is doing to their countries.


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    #123
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Oh my argument is null and void now dammit.

    To be honest, it was null and void when I c&p'ed that bit from the BNP's website, saying they want to deport legally settled immigrants 'voluntarily', followed by their nice little blurb about who is "indigenous".

    Spains policy relates to non-EU immigrants - migrant workers for the most part - who are unemployed. However, it could relate to shooting martians or setting up death camps for the portugese and still be about as equally relevant to Nick Griffin and the thread so far.


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    #124
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    censuspro wrote: »
    Freedom of speech as long as we agree with what your saying otherwise it's racist.

    I was banned from AfterHours for bringing up mass immigration. I started two threads on the issue over a period of two months. I always backed up my opinions with facts and figures, but got banned because they claimed I had an agenda.:(


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    #125
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Nodin?Tabloid newspapers are not a great source of information.
    .

    Be as good as to tell me where I've sourced a "Tabloid"...because looking through my last few posts here I can't see it.


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    #126
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    That's correct PaulieD and you wonder why that is.
    Nodin?Tabloid newspapers are not a great source of information.
    I think they are just concerned what immigration is doing to their countries.

    Immigration, if properly regulated, is of great benefit to the host country. On the other hand, mass immigration is a disaster.


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    #127
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Nodin wrote: »
    To be honest, it was null and void when I c&p'ed that bit from the BNP's website, saying they want to deport legally settled immigrants 'voluntarily', followed by their nice little blurb about who is "indigenous".

    Spains policy relates to non-EU immigrants - migrant workers for the most part - who are unemployed. However, it could relate to shooting martians or setting up death camps for the portugese and still be about as equally relevant to Nick Griffin and the thread so far.

    You keep making incorrect assertions and i'll keep correcting you.
    Where do you think the african and muslim immigrants are comming from from, poland?I think they come from outside the eu by and large.You use the word racist with ease.
    Is spain racist?Answer the question.


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    #128
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Immigration, if properly regulated, is of great benefit to the host country. On the other hand, mass immigration is a disaster.
    Exactly true.


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    #129
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Nodin wrote: »
    Be as good as to tell me where I've sourced a "Tabloid"...because looking through my last few posts here I can't see it.
    Your understanding of this topic has been corrected numerous times, so i took a wild guess and thought you got it from the good old news papers.


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    #130
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »
    Be as good as to tell me where I've sourced a "Tabloid"...because looking through my last few posts here I can't see it.

    Czech Republic.

    Prague -- During its manufacturing boom earlier this decade, the Czech Republic wooed immigrants with plentiful jobs and comparatively higher wages. Now the Czech government is paying them to go back home.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087660297361511.html

    Socialist Spain.

    The Spanish government plans to offer unemployed immigrants advance payment of their benefits if they return to their countries of origin - and agree to stay there for at least three years.
    The Spanish labour ministry said 100,000 immigrants from 19 countries would be eligible to receive the payout but it expects only between 10% and 20% to agree to this trade-off. The government is expected to approve the plan in September.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/21/spain

    France.

    New immigration minister, Brice Hortefeux, confirmed on Wednesday that the government is planning to offer incentives to more immigrants to return home voluntarily. "We must increase this measure to help voluntary return. I am very clearly committed to doing that," Hortefeux said in an interview with RFI radio.
    Under the scheme, Paris will provide each family with a nest egg of €6,000 ($8,000) for when they go back to their country of origin. A similar scheme, which was introduced in 2005 and 2006, was taken up by around 3,000 families.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,484716,00.html

    Japan.

    In Japan, they're offering them cash money to leave. Laid of workers of Latin descent -- mainly Brazilians --are being offered $3,000 each, plus $2,000 per dependent to take a flight home and promise never to return. Not even their kids will be allowed to seek employment again in Japan. If anything it seems like the severity of this, that they can never return, is what's causing many unemployed Brazilian Japanese to hesitate.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/japan-pays-immigrants-to-leave-2009-4


    Do you regard these to be racist policies, Nodin?


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    #131
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,039 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Nodin, you are reading into this far too much and over sensitizing the issue.

    The BNP are vocal and in your face and have policies I agree with and disagree with.
    The whole issue of them hating purely because of skin color is bad, wrong and pathetic.

    But, nobody can honestly claim that the average joe on the street isn't thinking "along their lines." I am not saying the average joe is as blatant or as hateful of certain groups, but the average joe is as disillusioned with immigration and different colours and cultures "invading" their space. It's a part of human nature and even the most tolerant and respectable and gentle people aren't immune to it.

    Griffin I am sure would remove non whites if he was allowed, whether or not they were here a year, a decade or a lifetime. He would also remove other ethnic groups based on their faith or sexual orientation. He is most definitely a racist, but his views on immigration and the lack of control, I do agree with.

    So, in a nutshell, humans, whether they be white or black or any other colour will
    discriminate against those not of their "kind." Maybe it's not right, but it's innate in all of us, good bad or indifferent. Nodin, you don't seem to accept this. To hate due to color of skin is nasty, but to be
    discriminatory or wary is in us all, some more than others. For some, it takes less
    to bring this side of human nature out.


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    #132
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    You keep making incorrect assertions and i'll keep correcting you..
    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Your understanding of this topic has been corrected numerous times..

    I haven't made one so far. You just seem somewhat peeved that I showed that Griffin indeed does want non-whites to leave.

    So far the only incorrects assertions I've seen are from you. What specific remark appears to come from the tabloids, if you would.....
    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Is spain racist?Answer the question.


    As it only covers 19 specific countries, and some of them also hispanic, no. If you'd actually read what you're on about, it would help.
    http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6e578a49-07af-4a8f-a7d5-247036059b1b

    Why are you trying to shift away from Griffin?

    I see - rather unsuprisingly - that PaulieD seems unable to see the difference between what he's posting and what Griffin is proposing also....


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    #133
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I was banned from AfterHours for bringing up mass immigration. I started two threads on the issue over a period of two months. I always backed up my opinions with facts and figures, but got banned because they claimed I had an agenda.:(

    Having read both of those threads, I would tend to agree with them.


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    #134
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    walshb wrote: »
    Nodin, you are reading into this far too much and over sensitizing the issue.

    Really? Jaysus....because I could have sworn that it was you that posted
    walshb wrote:
    They aren't happy with the foreign invasion, multiculturalism, Black people taking over their towns, Asian people taking over their towns and Arabic people taking overt their towns.


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    #135
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Nodin wrote: »
    I haven't made one so far. You just seem somewhat peeved that I showed that Griffin indeed does want non-whites to leave.

    So far the only incorrects assertions I've seen are from you. What specific remark appears to come from the tabloids, if you would.....




    As it only covers 19 specific countries, and some of them also hispanic, no. If you'd actually read what you're on about, it would help.
    http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6e578a49-07af-4a8f-a7d5-247036059b1b

    Why are you trying to shift away from Griffin?

    I see - rather unsuprisingly - that PaulieD seems unable to see the difference between what he's posting and what Griffin is proposing also....

    The difference between my viewpoint and yours is, i don't support mass immigration at the expense of the host country.
    nodiin wrote:
    He wants them gone/He wants them removed. While its not forced repatriation, its certainly a racist policy.

    If the immigrants that were coming in were white and from Nigeria would it be racist now?


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    #136
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,039 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Nodin wrote: »
    Really? Jaysus....because I could have sworn that it was you that posted

    Yes, I did post that, and in reality, it is damn well true. You need to get off your soap box and stop trying to make out that only the BNP have an issue with immigration, or different ethnic groups living side by side. Racism and bigotry exist, and then there is plain disillusionment and fear and wariness of ethnic groups.

    We cannot lump everyone together here. Some folks hate people because
    of a colour or a religion or a sexual orientation. This, I can not understand and it is
    at the bottom of the barrel.

    There are others who over time become resentful or wary or less tolerant
    of persons whom aren't of their kind. This is in all of us, in humans.
    When it becomes and issue is when those ethnic minorities start
    to maybe integrate "too much" into the community and are seen
    by the majority to be "trying to take over." This may not seem right
    to you, but it happens, as it is in human nature

    Immigration leads to this way of thinking, but it doesn't make a person
    hateful or racist because he/she is simply wary or not as open
    with groups who aren't as closely tied to their kind

    Are all Irish and English hateful? No way. Are some? Yes. Are many wary
    and resentful and less tolerant of ethnic minorities? I would say YES.


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    #137
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »
    I see - rather unsuprisingly - that PaulieD seems unable to see the difference between what he's posting and what Griffin is proposing also....

    Tell me the difference so.


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    #138
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    Having read both of those threads, I would tend to agree with them.

    Why? The vast majority of Irish people want an end to mass immigration, does that make them racist?

    Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.
    The poll was conducted after it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total.
    Asked: "Do you think Ireland, in line with most other European countries, should restrict immigrants from new EU accession countries?" 67 per cent of respondents replied Yes and 33 per cent answered No.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-1794640.html


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    #139
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Why? The vast majority of Irish people want an end to mass immigration, does that make them racist?


    I remember your "I want my country back" line - I wonder what reaction Nick Griffin would have got if he came out something like that last night.


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    #140
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, I did post that, and in reality, it is damn well true.

    About "Black people taking over their towns"? Fascinating. Would you care to give two examples of this "take over"? One for the "blacks" and another for the "Arabic", if you'd be as good.
    PaulieD wrote:
    Tell me the difference so. .

    I'm appalled you're incapable of seeing the difference.

    Griffins policy is aimed at any immigrant to Britain who doesn't fall within a certain racial definition. The others are aimed at unemployed migrant workers and in fact are just the payment of what they're due in "stamps" in a lump sum.


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    #141
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    nodin wrote:
    He wants them gone/He wants them removed. While its not forced repatriation, its certainly a racist policy.


    If the immigrants that were coming in were white and from Nigeria would it be racist now?
    Lets see you talk your way out of that one.


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    #142
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    I remember your "I want my country back" line - I wonder what reaction Nick Griffin would have got if he came out something like that last night.

    What was wrong with that comment? I live in an area of Dublin where Irish people are in the minority. I will tell you something, it is not a particulary enriching experience.


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    #143
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »

    I'm appalled you're incapable of seeing the difference.

    Griffins policy is aimed at any immigrant to Britain who doesn't fall within a certain racial definition. The others are aimed at unemployed migrant workers and in fact are just the payment of what they're due in "stamps" in a lump sum.

    I am going on his statements last night. He repeatedly stated that he had no wish to forcibly repatriate anyone other than failed asylum seekers. Cant see the problem with that.


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    #144
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    PaulieD wrote: »
    What was wrong with that comment?

    If you can't see it, I couldn't be bothered trying to explain it too you.


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    #145
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I live in an area of Dublin where Irish people are in the minority. I will tell you something, it is not a particulary enriching experience.

    And thats down to the immigrants?
    PaulieD wrote: »
    I am going on his statements last night.
    He repeatedly stated that he had no wish to forcibly repatriate anyone other than failed asylum seekers. .

    Which is nothing to do with the fact that he wants all "immigrants" from Britain - legal or otherwise - who don't fall into his racially based definition of whats British, to leave, and that he is prepared to pay them to do so. Its there on the website as linked earlier.
    Captain Furball wrote:
    If the immigrants that were coming in were white and from Nigeria would it be racist now?
    Lets see you talk your way out of that one. .

    As I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at, I'll have to speculate.

    If you discriminate against White Nigerians, thats (fairly obviously) racism. If you discriminate against black Nigerians and White nigerians, thats discriminatory, but its obviously not racially based.


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    #146
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    If you can't see it, I couldn't be bothered trying to explain it too you.

    My local area has more eastern europeans and africans than Irish people. Not once have the Irish people been given a chance to voice their opinions on mass immigration through the ballot box. Not once. Yet we have the left, various quangos and those in the immigration industry lecturing us that mass immigration is the bees knees as Ireland is now vibrant, enriched, and colourful. All meaningless tripe.

    So yes, I see nothing wrong with my comment. Might make it my sig.


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    #147
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Nodin wrote: »
    And thats down to the immigrants?

    Yes, how else would Irish people become a minority in my local area. Aliens, perhaps?


    Nodin wrote: »
    Which is nothing to do with the fact that he wants all "immigrants" from Britain - legal or otherwise - who don't fall into his racially based definition of whats British, to leave, and that he is prepared to pay them to do so. Its there on the website as linked earlier.

    As an Irish nationalist, I am not going to view the BNPs website. I will take your word for it. Although last night, he never mentioned any of the above. He simply stated that he would repatriate failed asylum seekers and those who are a drain on the UKs resources. Again, I fail to see your problem with this.


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you discriminate against White Nigerians, thats (fairly obviously) racism. If you discriminate against black Nigerians and White nigerians, thats discriminatory, but its obviously not racially based.

    Is wanting to repatriate failed asylum seekers from Nigeria, racist?


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    #148
    deadhead13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    PaulieD wrote: »

    So yes, I see nothing wrong with my comment. Might make it my sig.

    And then you wondered why the AH mods came to the conclusion that you had agenda.:rolleyes:


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    #149
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    deadhead13 wrote: »
    And then you wondered why the AH mods came to the conclusion that you had agenda.:rolleyes:

    I have no agenda, just an average joe. I am simply pointing out to others that mass immigration has been an absolute disaster for the working class of Ireland.


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    #150
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Originally Posted by Captain Furball
    If the immigrants that were coming in were white and from Nigeria would it be racist now?
    Lets see you talk your way out of that one. .


    nodin wrote:
    As I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at, I'll have to speculate.

    If you discriminate against White Nigerians, thats (fairly obviously) racism. If you discriminate against black Nigerians and White nigerians, thats discriminatory, but its obviously not racially based.


    If all Nigerian immigrants were white and Ireland being a country of mainly white people didn't want any more coming into the country is that racist?


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    #151
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    you know what, i reckon Griffin's popularity has gone up since last night with public sympathy and all that, he was afterall set up for a fall esp seeing that 99% of those in the studio were against him


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