BNP leader to appear on Question Time

deadhead13

O'Morris wrote: »

The BNP is not an openly racist party.

The reasons the BNP are not as overtly racist as it once was, was clearly spelled out in Nick Giffin's statement quoted here and on Question Time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw

Which more than suggests that the party's more "reasonable" recent policies are in fact a cynical facade to make the BNP more "saleable" and that its core goals and ideals are the same as ever. His attempted explanation of that quote were risible.

Other quotes fom Mr Griffen :

On the holocaust - "I am well aware the orthodox opinion is that 6 million jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lameshades. Orthodox opinion also once held the view that the earth was flat...I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extermely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria".

"Yes, Adolf Hilter went to far. His legacy is the biggest problem the BNP has to deal with. It just creates a bad image".

On Mein Kampf - "I most enjoyed the chapter on propaganda and organisation, there are some really useful idea there".

"There is a strong direct link from Oswald Mosley to me".

"When the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate"

His notions of "British aborigines" are based on a Book by Stephen Oppenheimer called "The origins of the British". The Author completely rejects Griffens conclusions..

http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/10/nick-griffins-bad-science.html

Penn

O'Morris wrote: »

It's not about removing people from the country, it's about encouraging them to return to their ancestral homelands and giving them the financial support to help them to do it. It's entirely voluntary and so there's no pressure on them to do anything against their will.

Okay, so what about this? Do you believe that Irish people currently living abroad should be "encouraged" to come back to Ireland? Irish people living legally in other countries, with good paying jobs, should they be "encouraged" to uproot, and move back to a country where they might struggle to get jobs? My cousin has been living in China for over 2 years. He's in a good job, working on fantastic building projects, has a girlfriend over there (an American girl), has many friends etc. Should he be made to come back here, while she is "encouraged" to go back to America?

PaulieD

deadhead13 wrote: »

The reasons the BNP are not as overtly racist as it once was, was clearly spelled out in the Nick Giffin's statement quoted here and on Question Time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw

Which more than suggests that the party's more "reasonable" recent policies are in fact a cynical facade to make the BNP more "saleable" and that its core goals and ideals are the same as ever. His attempted explanation of that quote were risible.

Other qoutes fom Mr Griffen :

On the holocaust - "I am well aware the orthodox opinion is that 6 million jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lameshades. Orthodox opinion also once held the view that the earth was flat...I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extermely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria".

"Yes, Adolf Hilter went to far. His legacy is the biggest problem the BNP has to deal with. It just creates a bad image".

On Mein Kampf - "I most enjoyed the chapter on propaganda and organisation, there are some really useful idea there".

"There is a strong direct link from Oswald Mosley to me".

"When the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate"

His notions of "British aborigines" are based on a Book by Stephen Oppenheimer called "The origins of the British". The Author completely rejects Griffens conclusions..

http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/10/nick-griffins-bad-science.html

Sweet Jaysus, thats pretty damning.

g5fd6ow0hseima

After watching Nick Griffin on question time, I began to think about the idea of religious tolerance. When you think about it, those of other religions come to places like the UK and Ireland are are free to practise their faith openly, yet if one looks at the native societies of the very communities the BNP 'oppose', the same cannot be said.

People who come to the UK from intolerant and backward countries which, for example, actually ban women from driving cars are obviously going to cause serious concern among large sections of the 'native' British community. Therefore, it is easy to understand why the support levels for the BNP have subsequently risen. This is something which, sadly, was not addressed on the show due to the other participants ganging up on Griffin. IF they allowed him due time, they wouldnt have ****ed themselves over - it would have been very interesting to hear what the audience would have had to say about the issue of tolerance or self-righteousness amongst immigrant communities for example - sadly though, its just further support for the BNP.

marco_polo

From a scientific point of view the concept of races has almost no validity whatsoever.

"Confusions About Human Races
By R.C. Lewontin
Published on: Jun 07, 2006

R.C. Lewontin, Alexander Agassiz Professor Emeritus of Zoology at Harvard University, has written a number of books and articles on evolution and human variation, including Biology as Ideology: The Doctrine of DNA and The Triple Helix: Gene, Organism, and Environment

....

There are four facts about human variation upon which there is universal agreement. First, the human species as a whole has immense genetic variation from individual to individual. Any two unrelated human beings differ by about 3 million distinct DNA variants.

Second, by far the largest amount of that variation, about 85%, is among individuals within local national or linguistic populations, within the French, within the Kikuyu, within the Japanese. There is diversity from population to population in how much genetic variation each contains, depending upon how much immigration into the population has occurred from a variety of other groups and also on the size of the population. The United States, with a very large population whose ancestors came from all over the earth including the original inhabitants of the New World, is genetically very variable whereas small populations of local Amazonian tribes are less genetically variable, although they are by no means genetically uniform. Despite the differences in amount of genetic variation within local populations, the finding that on the average 85% of all human genetic variation is within local populations has been a remarkably consistent result of independent studies carried out over twenty-five years using data from both proteins and DNA."

Of the remaining 15% of human variation, between a quarter and a half is between local populations within classically defined human “races,” between the French and the Ukrainians, between the Kikuyu and the Ewe, between the Japanese and the Koreans. The remaining variation, about 6% to 10% of the total human variation is between the classically defined geographical races that we think of in an everyday sense as identified by skin color, hair form, and nose shape. This imprecision in assigning the proportion of variation assigned to differences among population within ”races” as compared to variation among “races,” arises precisely because there is no objective way to assign the various human populations to clear-cut races. Into which “race” do the Hindi and Urdu speakers of the Indian sub-continent fall? Should they be grouped with Europeans or with Asians or should a separate race be assigned to them? Are the Lapps of Finland and the Hazari of Afghanistan really Europeans or Asians? What about Indonesians and Melanesians? Different biologists have made different assignments and the number of “races” assigned by anthropologists and geneticists has varied from 3 to 30.

PaulieD

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Okay, so what about this? Do you believe that Irish people currently living abroad should be "encouraged" to come back to Ireland? Irish people living legally in other countries, with good paying jobs, should they be "encouraged" to uproot, and move back to a country where they might struggle to get jobs? My cousin has been living in China for over 2 years. He's in a good job, working on fantastic building projects, has a girlfriend over there (an American girl), has many friends etc. Should he be made to come back here, while she is "encouraged" to go back to America?

If any Irish citizen is illegally in a foreign country, they should be deported. If an Irish citizen is a failed asylum seekers in a foreign country, they should be deported. If any Irish citizen is milking the benefit sytem in a foreign country, they should be deported. If an Irish citizen breaks the law of a foreign country, they should be deported. But of course, the opposite should also ring true.;)

Penn

PaulieD wrote: »

If any Irish citizen is illegally in a foreign country, they should be deported. If an Irish citizen is a failed asylum seekers in a foreign country, they should be deported. If any Irish citizen is milking the benefit sytem in a foreign country, they should be deported. If an Irish citizen breaks the law of a foreign country, they should be deported. But of course, the opposite should also ring true.;)

Exactly. I completely agree, anyone breaking the law like that should be deported. Whether its Irish people in other countries, or foreign people in Ireland. My cousin and his girlfriend aren't breaking any laws though. They have full Visas and were recruited by the same company over there, thats how they met. But they aren't Chinese. So should they be deported?

PaulieD

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

So should they be deported?

Thats up to the Chinese.

Nodin

Juliette Narrow Rust wrote: »

After watching Nick Griffin on question time, I began to think about the idea of religious tolerance. When you think about it, those of other religions come to places like the UK and Ireland are are free to practise their faith openly, yet if one looks at the native societies of the very communities the BNP 'oppose', the same cannot be said.

So?

wes

O'Morris wrote: »

It's not about removing people from the country, it's about encouraging them to return to their ancestral homelands and giving them the financial support to help them to do it. It's entirely voluntary and so there's no pressure on them to do anything against their will.

Ancestral homelands are an interesting concept. To the best of my knowledge, my ancestral homelands would include, Kashmir, parts of Northen India and Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran, which one should I return to? I don't speak any of the languages spoken there, I only have a basic working knowledge of some of the cultures. Why would I (or others like me) leave?

Also, a program to get rid of ethnic minorities, even on a voluntary basis is racists, and even with it being voluntary, would make ethnic minorities feel unwelcome. Then there is the problem if little or no ethnic minorities leave. What then? If a pure "White" society can't be achieved by asking the ethnic minorities to go home nicely doesn't work, what then?

O'Morris wrote: »

It's not about the skin colour, it's about ethnicity. The BNP are opposed to large-scale immigration from eastern Europe even though the eastern Europeans have the same colour skin as the indigenous British.

Alright fair enough, then its ethnicity. You do realize, that ethnic differences, are basically inconsequential right? Basically, regardless of ethnicity, people aren't really that different.

O'Morris wrote: »

I don't think it's a question of people being white. I think their attitude is that only people with strong roots in Britain can claim to call themselves proper British people.

What are a strong roots then? I would say living, working, and having a family are strong roots. Why does where someone ancestors lived matter? Shouldn't we judge a individual based on there own merits?

O'Morris wrote: »

We share a common ancestor with the chimps as well and the amount of genetic difference between us and the other primates is very small.

Yes, and between different ethnicity there is virtually no genetic differences. We are all Human, we can reproduce between all races, and are a single species. The difference you perceive are artificially created by ourselves.

O'Morris wrote: »

No, I mean Irish people. The indigenous Irish people are white and so preserving an Ireland of Irish people means preserving an Ireland of white people.

At no time in history has there ever been a pure "race". My own ancestry, includes Indian, Afghan, Kashmiri, and Iranian. You will find that most Irish people will be similarly mixed between different groups. Everyone is already mixed. So your precious racial purity never actually existed in the first place. So its can't preserved, as it doesn't exist.

O'Morris wrote: »

A racialist is motivated mainly by love for his own race while the racist is motivated mainly by hatred for other races. I think that's a major difference. I think the racists in the BNP are massively outnumbered by the racialists.

TBH, I find the term racialists, to be a ridiculous one. The BNP are racists, trying to invent a new term to hide this (actually change the meaning of a pre-exising one), won't work.

Here btw, is a definition of racialism:

From thefreedictionary.com:

ra·cial·ism (rsh-lzm)
n.
1.
a. An emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events.
b. Policy or practice based on racial considerations.
2. Chiefly British Variant of racism.

OldJay

Being lectured on racial 'values' by a racist/xenophobe/bigot is akin to being told how to drive by a taxi driver.

KaiserMc

Why can these people say this without being labeled 'racist' .

More Cultures = more conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJvCcd5y-lI

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

Why can these people say this without being labeled 'racist' .

They aren't member of a racial supremacist party maybe, like say the BNP. Having said that, if they are saying the same crap as the BNP, then they are clearly racist.

KaiserMc wrote: »

More Cultures = more conflict

We manage to get into all kinds of conflicts over pretty much anything, like say Footbal for instance. Its something we are rather good at as a species.

Dannyboy83

Funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk&feature=player_embedded

OldJay

KaiserMc wrote: »

Why can these people say this without being labeled 'racist' .

More Cultures = more conflict

Do explain the "culture" that is under threat from all "non-indigenous" people then . . .

Nodin

KaiserMc wrote: »

More Cultures = more conflict

In which case London would have been destroyed decades ago....

wes

Nodin wrote: »

In which case London would have been destroyed decades ago....

Well according to Nick Griffin, it has been ethnically cleansed, but no one else can remember it happening for some reason. I think it may have been the pod people what done it.

OldJay

wes wrote: »

Well according to Nick Griffin, it has been ethnically cleansed, but no one else can remember it happening for some reason. I think it may have been the pod people what done it.

If you're referring to the Question Time appearance, he actually used (well, abused really) the word 'genocide'. Not ethnic cleansing. Even worse.

PaulieD

Nodin wrote: »

In which case London would have been destroyed decades ago....

The ghettos of London are absolute hell holes. Bombing them would cause millions of euro worth of improvements.;)

Hey Nodin, add the UK to the list of countries who pay foreigners to leave.

Labour offers Failed Asylum Seekers £6,000 to return to Zimbabwe

Cash and aid repatriation packages worth up to £6,000 are to be offered to failed asylum seekers to go home voluntarily to Zimbabwe, the Home Office announced today.

Phil Woolas, the immigration minister, indicated at the same time that the first steps would be taken this autumn towards forcibly returning more than 10,000 failed asylum seekers who fled Robert Mugabe's regime.

Woolas said in a written ministerial statement that the enhanced cash package was intended to encourage failed asylum seekers to return voluntarily, "but where they choose not to do so we are bound to take steps, over time, to enforce the law".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/29/zimbabwe-failed-asylum-seekers-cash

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

The ghettos of London are absolute hell holes. Bombing them would cause millions of euro worth of improvements.

Ghettoes are generally regarded as hell holes wherever they are.

Are you trying to make some half arsed point? It's coming up short at least a quarter of an arse at the moment.

PaulieD wrote: »

Hey Nodin, add the UK to the list of countries who pay foreigners to leave.

Labour offers Failed Asylum Seekers £6,000 to return to Zimbabwe

Thats wonderful. I mean, what possible grounds would anyone have for claiming asylum to avoid living in Zimbabwe.....

KaiserMc

wes wrote: »

They aren't member of a racial supremacist party maybe, like say the BNP. Having said that, if they are saying the same crap as the BNP, then they are clearly racist.


We manage to get into all kinds of conflicts over pretty much anything, like say Footbal for instance. Its something we are rather good at as a species.

The BNP are not a 'supremacist' party.. they are a party that has the interest of the indigenous population of Britain at heart and the indigenous population of Britain happens to be white.There are many Pakistani/Black/Indian groups in Britain who's aim is to further that groups cause and none of these groups are labeled racist .
The immigrants complaining about immigrants in that video imo would be called turncoats..Can you be racist to your own kind ? An Irish guy on youtube called me a racist for calling him paddy !!!!



The one thing I like about football fans ...is that they don't go building mosques all over the place.

KaiserMc

Justind wrote: »

Do explain the "culture" that is under threat from all "non-indigenous" people then . . .

The British have their culture.eg food they eat..music..love of beer,football,cricket, fighting , the monarchy etc
Foreign people enter the country with a different outlook and when the foreigners reach a certain number they begin to become more vocal and demanding. They start to build their own places of worship,complain that the morals of the host nation are not on a par with theirs,feel that they should have their own laws as the host nation laws are too liberal .
Some groups have managed to turn whole areas that were once exclusively white to no go areas for the ordinary white citizen.
Interbreeding is also another way of replacing the original people thus replacing the original culture.In Britain there are an estimated one million mixed race children.it has taken roughly sixty years to reach this number With the ongoing high numbers of immigrants into Britain ,the low birth rates of the indigenous women and the higher birth rates of immigrant women also interbreeding plus the many thousands of white flight indigenous British that leave every year there might be a fair chance that the British genetics and culture will be fairly eroded by the end of the century.

Nodin

KaiserMc wrote: »

The one thing I like about football fans ...is that they don't go building mosques all over the place.

Brilliant bit of thought there. I may sig that.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Interbreeding is also another way of replacing the original people thus replacing the original culture..

Dear o dear.....

wes

Justind wrote: »

If you're referring to the Question Time appearance, he actually used (well, abused really) the word 'genocide'. Not ethnic cleansing. Even worse.

Oh wow, taught he only used ethnic cleansing. Your right, that is way worse.

Nodin

I actually never knew that living near non-white people was so dangerous until Nick came along. Not that he's racist.

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

The BNP are not a 'supremacist' party.. they are a party that has the interest of the indigenous population of Britain at heart and the indigenous population of Britain happens to be white.There are many Pakistani/Black/Indian groups in Britain who's aim is to further that groups cause and none of these groups are labeled racist .

They are very clearly a supremacist party. It is bizarre that you would deny otherwise.

Btw, the Muslim Party Hizb ut Tahrir for example have been called racist (and rightly so imho), so it isn't just white supremacist groups that are called racist.

KaiserMc wrote: »

The immigrants complaining about immigrants in that video imo would be called turncoats..Can you be racist to your own kind ? An Irish guy on youtube called me a racist for calling him paddy !!!!

People of all races can be racist as well, and yeah you can be racist against your own race, if you repeat racist nonsense.

KaiserMc wrote: »

The one thing I like about football fans ...is that they don't go building mosques all over the place.

No, they build Football stadiums :P.

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

The British have their culture.eg food they eat..music..love of beer,football,cricket, fighting , the monarchy etc

Plenty of Asian, Black and Chinese Britians enjoy some or all of those things as well btw e.g. Asian Cricket players.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Foreign people enter the country with a different outlook and when the foreigners reach a certain number they begin to become more vocal and demanding. They start to build their own places of worship,complain that the morals of the host nation are not on a par with theirs,feel that they should have their own laws as the host nation laws are too liberal .

A small minority (a minority of a minority) may do this, but they haven't exactly managed to you know achieve anything.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Some groups have managed to turn whole areas that were once exclusively white to no go areas for the ordinary white citizen.

This claim has been made before, and each time people were asked where these no go area's were and to provide some reputable proof to back it up, no one was able to do it. I am going to go out on a limb here, and say it won't be different this time.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Interbreeding is also another way of replacing the original people thus replacing the original culture.In Britain there are an estimated one million mixed race children.it has taken roughly sixty years to reach this number With the ongoing high numbers of immigrants into Britain ,the low birth rates of the indigenous women and the higher birth rates of immigrant women also interbreeding plus the many thousands of white flight indigenous British that leave every year there might be a fair chance that the British genetics and culture will be fairly eroded by the end of the century.

Wow, just wow. As someone with mixed race family members (who had to change there 2nd name to avoid racism), what you say here is profoundly disturbing nonsense.

People "interbreeding" as you bizarrely put it, is something that Human Beings have been doing since the dawn of bloody time. People will always have babies together regardless of perceived racial differences. It isn't part of some master plan to replace anything, its simple human nature.

As for you statement of immigrant Women having babies, this is a old lie spouted by racists to scare people into thinking they will be taken over. After a generation or 2 immigrants birth rates tend to match that of the the majority populace.

bonkey

O'Morris wrote: »

A few generations at least.

I entered this discussion when you claimed that "white" Australians could not become aborigine because they are not indigenous to Australia.

Why not? If it can be done in a few generations, then why are white Australians not indigenous to Australia?

A Frenchman or German can't become indigenous but he can fit in more easily to the native population.

Only if that population displays bias based on skin-colour or other such attribute.

Exactly. Most Europeans are happy with the traditional ethnic makeup of their countries and they don't want to see it change. What's wrong with that?

For someone who has tried to argue the distinction between racialism and racism, you're seriously asking me what is wrong with ethnic discrimination?

Look...if someone wants to campaign to have the borders closed to all foreigners, I've no problem with that. If they want to argue that its reasonable to close it to unwanted ethnicities, then thats a different matter, because regardless of what the line of justification they offer, they are basically campaigning for ethnic discrimination to be formalised in law.

I notice you gave an example of a Frenchy rather than of a Pole or a Lithuanian.

I picked France because I had already mentioned the Normans and the Bretons, and because (having spent time in France) I know quite a number of 2nd and 3rd generation French of African extraction. Culturally, they are as French as any genetically pure Norman or Breton...but because of their roots they are apparently not "indigenous" and therefore some feel they don't belong there.

Do you realise that the BNP are opposed to mass immigration from eastern Europe and that (as mentioned on Question Time) concern over the scale of the unplanned-for influx since EU enlargement is one of the things that has driven the increase in support for the party? If your point was that the BNPers only seem to have a problem with dark-skinned immigrants then you have to ask why they're not overlooking the white-skinned immigrants from Eastern Europe.

I would never accuse the BNO of being so shallow that only skin-colour played a part in their bigotry.

PaulieD

Nodin wrote: »

I actually never knew that living near non-white people was so dangerous until Nick came along. Not that he's racist.

Try West Dublin in twenty years.

London.

Black youths are suspected of more than half of knife crime among children in the capital, according to confidential Scotland Yard figures.
A highly-sensitive report reveals that 124 of the 225 under-18s legally 'proceeded against' for knife offences in the past three months are from the black community.
Yet in the overwhelming majority of reported cases of knife crime involving young people, the victims are white.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036833/Over-half-young-knife-suspects-black-Scotland-Yard-figures-reveal.html

KaiserMc

wes wrote: »

They are very clearly a supremacist party. It is bizarre that you would deny otherwise.

Btw, the Muslim Party Hizb ut Tahrir for example have been called racist (and rightly so imho), so it isn't just white supremacist groups that are called racist.



People of all races can be racist as well, and yeah you can be racist against your own race, if you repeat racist nonsense.



No, they build Football stadiums :P.

The BNP are a legitimate Political party..they received close to a million votes in the European elections and after Mr Griffins appearance on question time many more have said they will consider voting for the BNP in future elections

If it is considered racism to insult a fellow Irishman then people are gone mighty fecking soft.

KaiserMc

Nodin wrote: »

Brilliant bit of thought there. I may sig that.



Dear o dear.....

Feeling you have the Moral High Ground.... good for you

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

The BNP are a legitimate Political party..they received close to a million votes in the European elections and after Mr Griffins appearance on question time many more have said they will consider voting for the BNP in future elections

People voted for the Nazi's as well btw, and they were also a legitimate political party, and they were racist. People voting for you, is not a defense against being racists, tbh using that as a defense make no sense whatsoever. Being a legitimate party is similarly not a defense, and again doesn't make any sense as any kind of defense against racism.

So once again, the BNP are clearly racist. Nick Griffins words and there policies (already discussed here) have shown them to be racist. Being a legitimate party and having people vote for you is no defense against being called racists, as plenty of racist parties have had people vote for them and were considered legitimate.

Now, I know I repeated myself several times, but I think its needed to get the message across, that you haven't actually provided any kind of defense for the BNP.

KaiserMc wrote: »

If it is considered racism to insult a fellow Irishman then people are gone mighty fecking soft.

Calling people names tends to be something children do.

Btw, it really depends on the context, which I don't know, but yeah it can be racist.

KaiserMc

wes wrote: »

Plenty of Asian, Black and Chinese Britians enjoy some or all of those things as well btw e.g. Asian Cricket players.



A small minority (a minority of a minority) may do this, but they haven't exactly managed to you know achieve anything.



This claim has been made before, and each time people were asked where these no go area's were and to provide some reputable proof to back it up, no one was able to do it. I am going to go out on a limb here, and say it won't be different this time.



Wow, just wow. As someone with mixed race family members (who had to change there 2nd name to avoid racism), what you say here is profoundly disturbing nonsense.

People "interbreeding" as you bizarrely put it, is something that Human Beings have been doing since the dawn of bloody time. People will always have babies together regardless of perceived racial differences. It isn't part of some master plan to replace anything, its simple human nature.

As for you statement of immigrant Women having babies, this is a old lie spouted by racists to scare people into thinking they will be taken over. After a generation or 2 immigrants birth rates tend to match that of the the majority populace.

I was referring to the Indigenous British..Irish people also play cricket and drink ..doesn't make them British

How are you so sure they are a small minority are you privy to the inner workings of the muslim mindset, even so called moderate mosques have been shown to be extreme in their teachings , they had fairly big turnouts for the recent clashes in Birmingham, Manchester, London and Leeds.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429 link to some no go areas in Europe
One I know of in England is glodwick estate in Oldham but I'm sure if I looked I would find more.I wouldn't recommend going walkabouts in parts of Brixton after dark either.

I too have mixed race family are you also looking for the moral high ground ?

My natural instinct is to breed with my own kind ..and that kind is a White Irish woman,I appreciate the beauty of females from other races but i do not want to be involved in the destruction of her natural children.

If immigrants/asylum seekers are arriving in Britain at a rate of 250,000 a year and there are already millions there and it takes two or three generations for them to reduce their birthrate to that of the indigenous women then they are outbreeding the indigenous women.
In some major European cities the most common boys name is Mohammed

marco_polo

PaulieD wrote: »

Try West Dublin in twenty years.

London.

Black youths are suspected of more than half of knife crime among children in the capital, according to confidential Scotland Yard figures.
A highly-sensitive report reveals that 124 of the 225 under-18s legally 'proceeded against' for knife offences in the past three months are from the black community.
Yet in the overwhelming majority of reported cases of knife crime involving young people, the victims are white.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036833/Over-half-young-knife-suspects-black-Scotland-Yard-figures-reveal.html

Can you say agenda?

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/02/daily_mail_soli

[mailto:rsreply@dwpub.com] Sent: 13 February 2008 15:57 To:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Response Source - Diana Appleyard , Daily Mail (Request for personal case study)
PUBLICATION: Daily Mail (Request for personal case study)
JOURNALIST: Diana Appleyard (staff)
DEADLINE: 14-February-2008 16:00
QUERY: I am urgently looking for anonymous horror stories of people who have employed Eastern European staff, only for them to steal from them, disappear, or have lied about their resident status. We can pay you £100 for taking part, and I promise it will be anonymous, just a quick phone call. Could you email me asap? Many thanks, Diana

HOW TO REPLY:
Email: mailto:dianaappleyard@aol.com
Phone: not provided for use
Fax: 01296 738083 (preferred)

PaulieD

marco_polo wrote: »

Can you say agenda?

The figures are from Scotland Yard. The majority of knife crime is London is committed by black youths. The majority of the victims, are white.

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

I was referring to the Indigenous British..Irish people also play cricket and drink ..doesn't make them British

What makes them British then? Why do you place so much relevance on people most recent ancestors? It is rather nonsensical.

KaiserMc wrote: »

How are you so sure they are a small minority are you privy to the inner workings of the muslim mindset, even so called moderate mosques have been shown to be extreme in their teachings , they had fairly big turnouts for the recent clashes in Birmingham, Manchester, London and Leeds.

You mean with far right thugs? People tend to react badly to far right nut jobs, regardless of race or religion. Still, the people who showed up were only a very small minority, so you really need to try harder next time.

Also, its interesting that you seem to think you have a insight into what Muslims think yourself, but some how others can't as well. You see I don't have insight into what Muslims (or any other group thinks), but I think it fair to say if a majority of British Muslims were really trying to pull what you are saying they are trying, then there would a hell of a lot more trouble.

KaiserMc wrote: »

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429 link to some no go areas in Europe

Random right wing blogs is hardly a reputable source. You present an opinion piece, and nothing more.

KaiserMc wrote: »

One I know of in England is glodwick estate in Oldham but I'm sure if I looked I would find more.I wouldn't recommend going walkabouts in parts of Brixton after dark either.

So white people can't enter these area's? I am sure there must be loads of reports from reputable sources about this then.....

KaiserMc wrote: »

I too have mixed race family are you also looking for the moral high ground ?

High ground? Right now I am positively inter galactic at this point :P.

KaiserMc wrote: »

My natural instinct is to breed with my own kind ..and that kind is a White Irish woman,I appreciate the beauty of females from other races but i do not want to be involved in the destruction of her natural children.

What the hell are you talking about? Human Beings will have sex with members of the opposite sex regardless of "race", and have done so since our species began. There is a huge body of historical and scientific evidence, that is quite frankly beyond reproach, that proves this.

KaiserMc wrote: »

If immigrants/asylum seekers are arriving in Britain at a rate of 250,000 a year and there are already millions there and it takes two or three generations for them to reduce their birthrate to that of the indigenous women then they are outbreeding the indigenous women.

You see the funny thing, is that racist have been spouting this nonsense about every immigrant group under the sun for decades, and yet none of the predictions have come true. Its a pretty rubbish track record really. The same argument get recycled again and again, and we already know its rubbish, as the same nonsensical predictions made in the past have not come true e.g. Nazi's predicting Jews and other groups swamping Europe for example.

KaiserMc wrote: »

In some major European cities the most common boys name is Mohammed

Um, so? Muslims over do calling boys Mohammed sometimes, so what?

wes

PaulieD wrote: »

The figures are from Scotland Yard. The majority of knife crime is London is committed by black youths. The majority of the victims, are white.

I am sure the majority of the people doing the crimes are also poor too. Just like I am sure the majority of bankers who ****ed up the world economies, were well educated and probably members of there countries elite. You seem to think that race is the cause of the crimes, when it is probably more to do with poverty.

Knife crime is the crime of the poor, and bilking millions out of the economy is the crime of the rich, but seeing as there rich they got off scot free.

PaulieD

wes wrote: »

I am sure the majority of the people doing the crimes are also poor too.

Agreed. Playing devils advocate here, but if the roles were reveresed and the majority of knife crimes were committed by white males, with blacks the majority of the victims, these crimes would be labelled as "hate crimes." Why the double standards?

wes wrote: »

Just like I am sure the majority of bankers who ****ed up the world economies, were well educated and probably members of there countries elite.

No mention of NAMA, surprisingly.

wes wrote: »

You seem to think that race is the cause of the crimes, when it is probably more to do with poverty.

No, no I do not. If I meet a black man, the last thing I think is "oh sh!t hes gonna stab me", quite the opposite in fact. 99% of all blacks I have met in Ireland have been friendly and good humoured. If we look at other european countries, it is the second and third generation immigrants that cause social problems.

I would lay blame on the lack of integration, failed immigration policies, poor housing schemes and lack of government foresight. Importing poor people to live amongst self made poor people, is not a good idea.

The question is, will we see similar statistics in our major towns and cities in the not so distant future?

wes

PaulieD wrote: »

Agreed. Playing devils advocate here, but if the roles were reveresed and the majority of knife crimes were committed by white males, with blacks the majority of the victims, these crimes would be labelled "hate crimes." Why the double standards?

Firstly, the article you present is basically blaming the whole thing on race, so there isn't really a double standard imho, considering the Daily Hei.. I mean Mails story.

Well, if people were to use the term hate crimes in you example, then they would be using it wrongly. Its only a hate crime if the principal motivation is hatred towards the group your the crime is being committed against. If the primary motivation is financial, then it is a different story.

PaulieD wrote: »

No mention of NAMA, surprisingly.

I was being just be general.

PaulieD wrote: »

No, no I do not. If I met a black man, the last thing I think is "oh sh!t hes gonna stab me", quite the opposite in fact. 99% of all blacks I have met in Ireland have been friendly and good humoured. If we look at other european countries, it is the second and third generation immigrants that cause social problems.

Apologies, my mistake then.

PaulieD wrote: »

I would lay blame on the lack of integration, failed immigration policies, poor housing schemes and lack of government foresight. Importing poor people to live amongst self made poor people, is not a good idea.

The question is, will we see similar statistics in our major towns and cities in the not so distant future?

Well, I can't predict the future, but I think it can easily be avoided, by taking steps being taken by both the immigrants and the host community. Like most things, immigration needs a bit of for thought and a hard work for it to work.

marco_polo

PaulieD wrote: »

Agreed. Playing devils advocate here, but if the roles were reveresed and the majority of knife crimes were committed by white males, with blacks the majority of the victims, these crimes would be labelled as "hate crimes." Why the double standards?

Hmm, I agree with you on that point. A crime is just a crime in my book.

No mention of NAMA, surprisingly.

No, no I do not. If I meet a black man, the last thing I think is "oh sh!t hes gonna stab me", quite the opposite in fact. 99% of all blacks I have met in Ireland have been friendly and good humoured. If we look at other european countries, it is the second and third generation immigrants that cause social problems.

I would lay blame on the lack of integration, failed immigration policies, poor housing schemes and lack of government foresight. Importing poor people to live amongst self made poor people, is not a good idea.

The question is, will we see similar statistics in our major towns and cities in the not so distant future?

Again I agree with much of what you say in terms of failled policies, but how do the likes of the Daily Mail help the process of integration by highlighting corrolations between knife crime and race, instead of the real link which is knife crime and poverty?

Is there any positive to be gained from such articles?

PaulieD

wes wrote: »

Well, if people were to use the term hate crimes in you example, then they would be using it wrongly. Its only a hate crime if the principal motivation is hatred towards the group your the crime is being committed against. If the primary motivation is financial, then it is a different story.

I have no problems with hate crime laws. If you attack somebody based on their race, colour, creed or sexual preference, you deserve to be locked up for a very long time. It is the interpretation of the law that concerns me. I cannot provide exact stats at the moment, I had a drop of vino and my leaba is calling, but only a dozen or so non whites have been charged with hate crimes. Which is surprising when you consider the sheer volume of black on white violence in the UK.

I will provide a link over the weekend to back up my point.

wes wrote: »

Apologies, my mistake then.

No worries.

wes wrote: »

Well, I can't predict the future, but I think it can easily be avoided, by taking steps being taken by both the immigrants and the host community. Like most things, immigration needs a bit of for thought and a hard work for it to work.

Of course it can be avoided, but we look doomed to repeat the mistakes of our european neighbours. Immigrants are concentrated in certain areas, they are not evenly spread out throughout the country. Let us look at West Dublin.

When Kebabs Lenihan was appointed as Minister for Integration, alarm bells should have went off.

PaulieD

marco_polo wrote: »

Again I agree with much of what you say in terms of failled policies, but how do the likes of the Daily Mail help the process of integration by highlighting corrolations between knife crime and race, instead of the real link which is knife crime and poverty?

By forcing the government to act?

marco_polo wrote: »

Is there any positive to be gained from such articles?

I think so, yes. We should look at the problems other european countries have had integrating minority groups. Look at scandanavia and the problems they face with their muslim minorities. Look at France. Look at the UK. Look at the problems in eastern europe with roma integration.

The problem with the immigration debate is this, and I admit, I am at fault here too, is that one group takes the PC view, another takes the "kick em all out" side, both droning out those who take the sensible middle ground. Which gets us nowhere.

wes

PaulieD wrote: »

I have no problems with hate crime laws. If you attack somebody based on their race, colour, creed or sexual preference, you deserve to be locked up for a very long time. It is the interpretation of the law that concerns me. I cannot provide exact stats at the moment, I had a drop of vino and my leaba is calling, but only a dozen or so non whites have been charged with hate crimes. Which is surprising when you consider the sheer volume of black on white violence in the UK.

I will provide a link over the weekend to back up my point.

Aren't white people the majority? Stands to reason a criminal looking to rob someone is more likely to run in the a member of the majority community, than say a minority. A correlation of the figures, don't necessarily prove causation here, and I think the hate crime convictions would suggests that the crimes at in the main not done due to racial hate.

KaiserMc

wes wrote: »

What makes them British then? Why do you place so much relevance on people most recent ancestors? It is rather nonsensical.



You mean with far right thugs? People tend to react badly to far right nut jobs, regardless of race or religion. Still, the people who showed up were only a very small minority, so you really need to try harder next time.

Also, its interesting that you seem to think you have a insight into what Muslims think yourself, but some how others can't as well. You see I don't have insight into what Muslims (or any other group thinks), but I think it fair to say if a majority of British Muslims were really trying to pull what you are saying they are trying, then there would a hell of a lot more trouble.



Random right wing blogs is hardly a reputable source. You present an opinion piece, and nothing more.



So white people can't enter these area's? I am sure there must be loads of reports from reputable sources about this then.....



High ground? Right now I am positively inter galactic at this point :P.



What the hell are you talking about? Human Beings will have sex with members of the opposite sex regardless of "race", and have done so since our species began. There is a huge body of historical and scientific evidence, that is quite frankly beyond reproach, that proves this.



You see the funny thing, is that racist have been spouting this nonsense about every immigrant group under the sun for decades, and yet none of the predictions have come true. Its a pretty rubbish track record really. The same argument get recycled again and again, and we already know its rubbish, as the same nonsensical predictions made in the past have not come true e.g. Nazi's predicting Jews and other groups swamping Europe for example.



Um, so? Muslims over do calling boys Mohammed sometimes, so what?

Why are the Iraqi's fighting the Americans? or the Afghans fighting the British .

The EDL are a mixed race group,White and Black people opposed to muslim extremists ,as far as I know there are no black people in far right groups.
They have been labeled 'far right' by the loony left.

There is a lot of trouble with muslims in Britain...there are extremists there that blew up the bus and the trains !! another tried to blow up a jeep in a Scottish airport and another tried to blow up a car loaded with gas canisters outside a nightclub in London. Then you have the one's that are targeting young teen Girls (White British) they are abusing thousands of teen girls /passing them around for sexual abuse/turning them to drugs and using them as prostitutes,controlling them with threats of violence against the girls and their families,they are also heavily involved in the drugs trade and other forms of criminality .

That Random Right wing blog ...if you click on the "BLUE" writing ,say the one that says 'France' ..it mysteriously takes you to sites such as the New York Post and the BBC and other reputable sources.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3537594.ece another piece on no go areas

Good for you being inter galactic and all that...I prefer being on the ground myself

Scientific Research seems to suggest that in Europe, even though we have all these invasions and as you say been breeding with anything that has walked...we are basically still the same people that our ancestors were thousands of years ago ..meaning very little add mix.

As you say 'realists' have been spouting stuff for decades about crossbreeding and immigrants outbreeding the indigenous population.
I think there was a Government report released recently in Britain which stated that the population increase there was due to immigrants.

nesf

KaiserMc wrote: »

As you say 'realists' have been spouting stuff for decades about crossbreeding and immigrants outbreeding the indigenous population.
I think there was a Government report released recently in Britain which stated that the population increase there was due to immigrants.

Crossbreeding implies that we're talking about substantially different breeds bred for a purpose. Applying the word to humans is offensive to some, please reword your arguments. Oh and from that post one could also argue that there's a very serious problem with Irish people in Britain considering how much blowing up and murders we've done over there for the past 40 years or so. The Muslims are amateurs in comparison.

wes

KaiserMc wrote: »

Why are the Iraqi's fighting the Americans? or the Afghans fighting the British .

Foreign armies have invaded there countries. I don't see any foreign armies currently occupying Europe.

Also, btw both Iraq and Afghanistan, have multiple ethnic and linguistic groups.

KaiserMc wrote: »

The EDL are a mixed race group,White and Black people opposed to muslim extremists ,as far as I know there are no black people in far right groups.
They have been labeled 'far right' by the loony left.

Ever hear of the Nation of Islam or Idi Amin? A far right racist black supremacist group and Idi Amin was also a racist against Asian people. You can be black and be a member of the far right or a racist. The EDL have been rightly labeled far right, not by the "loony" left, but by the main stream.

KaiserMc wrote: »

There is a lot of trouble with muslims in Britain...there are extremists there that blew up the bus and the trains !! another tried to blow up a jeep in a Scottish airport and another tried to blow up a car loaded with gas canisters outside a nightclub in London.

Quick question, which kills more people in the UK, Islamic terrorism or road accidents. Look up those figures, they will give you a sense of scale here.

Also, it interesting to note that there have been far right terror plots foiled in the past few years as well btw, here is a article from the Independent.co.uk discussing them:

Johann Hari: The looming threat of terror that comes from the far right

Its interesting how those terrorists are never discussed, despite similar plots to murder innocent people.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Then you have the one's that are targeting young teen Girls (White British) they are abusing thousands of teen girls /passing them around for sexual abuse/turning them to drugs and using them as prostitutes,controlling them with threats of violence against the girls and their families,they are also heavily involved in the drugs trade and other forms of criminality .

I am sure you can prove this via a reputable source? Right? As it stands, I think I am safe in saying that what your saying here is a fabrication.

As for drug trafficking, a lot of stuff does come from Afghanistan, but I think you will find a lot of the drug trade, has everything to do with money and Afghanistan is hardly the only source for drugs, and you will find plenty of people of all races involved in the drug trade, as everyone likes money.

As for the passing girls around and prostitution, you clearly talking nonsense.

KaiserMc wrote: »

That Random Right wing blog ...if you click on the "BLUE" writing ,say the one that says 'France' ..it mysteriously takes you to sites such as the New York Post and the BBC and other reputable sources.

Yeah, I did look at the sources, and they were talking about riots that were going on at the time, as opposed to people being generally unable to go to thsoe area's, and several of the "sources", were other random right wing blogs.

I stand by what I said earlier about the site.

KaiserMc wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3537594.ece another piece on no go areas

Once again, you provide an opinion piece, that is discussing the issue, and doesn't actually say there are no go area's. Here is an example of such a paragraph:

Meanwhile, Luton, like other enclaves, has experienced a spate of incidents that look all too like attempts to make Bury Park a no-go area to non-Muslims. Between November of last year and last month there were 18 attacks – all registered by the police – on five non-Muslim homes in the area. One couple, Mr and Mrs Harrop, white residents in their eighties, have had bricks hurled through their windows. The home of Mrs Palmer, a widow of West Indian origin, aged 70, has been attacked four times; on one occasion a metal beer keg crashed through her bay window while she was watching TV. Such attacks are not typical of the activities of the sort of radicals who preach a global Islamic state, or potential terrorists, who, according to one of my MI5 informants, merge into a background of “innocent normalcy” till the last minute. DCI Ian Middleton of Bedfordshire police says: “It’s the perception of the victims that their Muslim neighbours are to blame, and we have to respect that. But we have our doubts.” Middleton suspects, as does Margaret Moran, MP for Luton South, that the attacks could be the work of small groups of white or Muslim extremists, stirring up racial and inter-religious hatred for its own sake. I was to come across comparable “no-go” incidents in other parts of Britain, such as threats against Muslim converts to Christianity, and attacks on visiting social workers and Salvation Army facilities.

Yet for every story there is a parallel instance of racial insult by white British on every kind of migrant, white or black.

Again, no proof of no go area's, just speculation and even instances of attacks against immigrants. Odd how you don't mention that isn't it?

Its also interesting, how easily the author of the article can go to these no go area's as well.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Good for you being inter galactic and all that...I prefer being on the ground myself

Scientific Research seems to suggest that in Europe, even though we have all these invasions and as you say been breeding with anything that has walked...we are basically still the same people that our ancestors were thousands of years ago ..meaning very little add mix.

Yeah, I think you will find that your wrong, and people in Europe all mixed together regardless of race. I don't know what "science" your looking at, but I think its fair to say it isn't actually "science" and barely deserves to be called "pseudo-science".

KaiserMc wrote: »

As you say 'realists' have been spouting stuff for decades about crossbreeding and immigrants outbreeding the indigenous population.
I think there was a Government report released recently in Britain which stated that the population increase there was due to immigrants.

I never called them realists. I called them wrong, which is what they were, and which is what the people saying the same nonsense to are as well.

As for immigrants being responsible for population increase, well I think you will find that population prediction are notoriously hard to predicts, and even the latest prediction your refer to doesn't come close to your nonsense about the indigenous people being out bred.

OldJay

KaiserMc wrote: »

The British have their culture.eg food they eat..music..love of beer,football,cricket, fighting , the monarchy etc
Foreign people enter the country with a different outlook and when the foreigners reach a certain number they begin to become more vocal and demanding

What a predictably generalist answer. A stock answer, if you will. And wholly deluded
This "culture" for foreigners is alien to them, is it? Nope. Let me see . . . for example, 2nd and 3rd generation Pakistani people: They introduced some of the most popular food in Britain, enjoy their influential music, might like soccer, LOVE cricket. They might not drink and might be averted to "fighting". I myself rarely drink (I'd say last beer I had was in Cardiff on March 21st) and don't scrap.
I'd bet you'd find that there is quite a sizeable movement in the UK that is not exactly what you might call 'Monarchist'. And no, I don't mean "foreigners" either.
Take a look at Britons and Irish who settle in Spain, its islands and Portugal. Since you're conveniently generalising, how 'integrated' do you think these people are? I would say in my experience they're terrible at it.
I know British folk in Oslo who have never once taken up the language and only hang out with the ex-pat community. No biggie really.

KaiserMc wrote: »

They start to build their own places of worship,complain that the morals of the host nation are not on a par with theirs,feel that they should have their own laws as the host nation laws are too liberal

You seem to be lumping "foreigners" and "muslims" as the one. A common misconception (and deliberate) amongst the likes of the BNP, UKIP etc and their apologists. The demographics of "Foreigners" goes a lot further than 'muslims' v non-muslims. Exaggerating the influence of a strict form of any religion does nothing to convince either.

KaiserMc wrote: »

Some groups have managed to turn whole areas that were once exclusively white to no go areas for the ordinary white citizen

So have "whites".

KaiserMc wrote: »

Interbreeding is also another way of replacing the original people thus replacing the original culture.
In Britain there are an estimated one million mixed race children.

Its a plan then, is it? Like Mark Steyn, you should actually open your eyes instead of adopting the paranoid misleading approach. For example, a past example of the ghettoes in Oslo given in a past piece by him. I lived five years in Oslo. I know the city very well. Ghettoes? There are none.
When you suggest an intention of "foreigners" to outnumber "indigenous" Britons, I breath a sigh of relief as its a delusion and consign this tosh to the bullsh drawer.

KaiserMc wrote: »

it has taken roughly sixty years to reach this number With the ongoing high numbers of immigrants into Britain ,the low birth rates of the indigenous women and the higher birth rates of immigrant women also interbreeding plus the many thousands of white flight indigenous British that leave every year there might be a fair chance that the British genetics and culture will be fairly eroded by the end of the century.

I'm from Jewish stock on my mother's side. Sephardi-Jewish stock at that. My father's side isn't. Should I bugger off somewhere? Neuter myself?

Nodin

nesf wrote: »

Crossbreeding implies that we're talking about substantially different breeds bred for a purpose. Applying the word to humans is offensive to some, please reword your arguments. Oh and from that post one could also argue that there's a very serious problem with Irish people in Britain considering how much blowing up and murders we've done over there for the past 40 years or so. The Muslims are amateurs in comparison.

Actually the first bomb went off in the 1860's and that kind of thing has carried on until the early 1990's so you could say we were at it for about 130 years or so...

Rowley Birkin QC

I had a white supremacist in the bar where I work yesterday. It's one thing listening to these idiots on TV but when you confront it face to face the true ignorance and shallow nature of their arguments come to the fore.

bonkey

PaulieD wrote:

We should look at the problems other european countries have had integrating minority groups. Look at scandanavia and the problems they face with their muslim minorities. Look at France. Look at the UK. Look at the problems in eastern europe with roma integration.

We should indeed.

We should look at the problems they have had and ask ourselves "can we avoid making the same mistakes".

We should look at the success stories in other european countries, and ask ourselves "can we emulate that".

The biggest lesson, I feel, is that it needs to be a two-way street. Attitudes that immigrants need to conform to our society, and are only acceptable when they're indistinguishable from us, and in the meantime should only be given the scummiest jobs and kept out of our neighbourhoods.....they're not helping any more than the attitudes that we have to cater to their every demand and whim, to pretend there is no friction, and that we're all a big happy family even when we're not.