BNP leader to appear on Question Time

irish_bob

RabbleRouser wrote: »

No, its not Brit-bashing. In fairness I did say the following in my first post on this topic "There were protests from nationalist groups but none of them protested against the rascist policies of the Unionist parties", what I meant by this was that I believe there was a rascist element to the nationalist movement in Northern Ireland during the 70's and 80's- however, it was not as evident as it was in the Unionist movement.

bbc headquaters are in london , most english or mainland britts ( excluding scotland ) dont have a clue about what unionists or anyone else in northern ireland believes or is annoyed about

irish_bob

walshb wrote: »

The BNP are spouting off the stuff that many others are thinking and believing, but daren't' say. Is anyone seriously gonna' claim that the likes of Starw or Brown or Cameoron or the Labour Party and Tory party in general aren't thinking along the lines of the BNP?

The average English guy is also thinking it. They aren't happy with the foreign invasion, multiculturalism, Black people taking over their towns, Asian people taking over their towns and Arabic people taking overt their towns. Add in any other ethnic group to this too. We are talking about the bloody British, the most patriotic and
superioristic' nation on earth. They usually don't like anyone but their own.

By taking over, I mean moving in and becoming a large part of the towns throughout
Britain

i wouldnt agree with this at all , by and large the british are a very tollerant liberal minded people , much more so than the irish , spanish , italian or french

walshb

irish_bob wrote: »

i wouldnt agree with this at all , by and large the british are a very tollerant liberal minded people , much more so than the irish , spanish , italian or french

Try tell that to the millions all over the world that were exploited and mistreated by the Empire. Actually, don't go all over the world, go up North and dare to tell the people tha the British are tolerant and liberal.....

I am not anti English or anyone, but to maintain that thru history, British persons and those in power were liberal and tolerant of all ethnic groups
is having a laugh

ejmaztec

walshb wrote: »

Try tell that to the millions all over the world that were exploited and mistreated by the Empire. Actually, don't go all over the world, go up North and dare to tell the people tha the British are tolerant and liberal.....

I am not anti English or anyone, but to maintain that thru history, British persons and those in power were liberal and tolerant of all ethnic groups
is having a laugh

If the British were the same now, as they were in their imperial past, people like Nick Griffin would be the prime minister.

Even the Tories are sharing caring socialists now.

walshb

Hold on. Of course the world today is different. It is no longer acceptable to be racist or discriminatory, not that it ever was acceptable; but the idea that today, the British are suddenly tolerable and liberal of other ethnic minorities is inaccurate. Nick is just blatant and outspoken, but a lot of his views on Britain for the British and out with the foreigners, whether they be black or whatever is reflective of many average British people. He is simply
a little more vociferous

Hey, it's not just the British, it's humans in general. Irish people can and are like this too. People are like this. Whenever their space seems to become smaller and different folks start moving in and "taking over", they can become resentful and wary and hostile

zAbbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

ejmaztec

I worked with a guy in the UK, years ago, who agreed with an Enoch Powell version of immigration control, and had great admiration for the man. The irony was that my work colleague was from India. His motive was that he didn't want any more of his countrymen moving to England, because it might hamper his own progress.

If the mainstream UK parties don't sit down and discuss what to do about immigration, the BNP will become more popular, which will lead to even more trouble. The main parties have been ignoring the situation for decades, and none of their MPs seem to want to risk their political careers by opening their mouths, for fear of being labeled racist.

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

Yes, how else would Irish people become a minority in my local area. Aliens, perhaps??

Not what I was getting at. Try again.

PaulieD wrote: »

I will (....).??

Convenient.

I never addressed that issue, nor was it something I brought up. The fact is that the BNP have a clearly racist agenda, as pointed out in their own words, on their own website.

Why do you keep skirting around that?

PaulieD wrote: »

Is wanting to repatriate failed asylum seekers from Nigeria, racist?

No. Thats at least three non-issues you've dragged up now.

CaptainFurball wrote:

If all Nigerian immigrants were white and Ireland being a country of mainly white people didn't want any more coming into the country is that racist??

No, but if they block only Nigerians, its discrimination. That was pointed out in my earlier post. I've now a question for you -

Whats that got to do with Nick Griffins racism?

misstierney

PaulieD wrote: »

I have no agenda, just an average joe. I am simply pointing out to others that mass immigration has been an absolute disaster for the working class of Ireland.

Too true. Put all of those lazy dole-drawing foreigners out. Every last one of them (well, except for the handful that have worked here long enough to earn their dole). It makes me sick and so angry to see vital health services cut and those thieves claiming.

PaulieD

Nodin wrote: »

Not what I was getting at. Try again.

Well spit it out then. Less of the riddles, please.

Nodin wrote: »

I never addressed that issue, nor was it something I brought up. The fact is that the BNP have a clearly racist agenda, as pointed out in their own words, on their own website.

Why do you keep skirting around that?

I am not skirting around anything. Look at the title of the thread "BNP leader to appear on Question Time." The website has nothing to do with Nick Griffins appearance on last nights show. Nothing what so ever. He simply stated that he would repatriate failed asylum seekers. Whats the problem?

walshb

BTW, the show was a complete disgrace. Completely loaded against one person and so set up. I think the audience too were brought in.
It was a show to berate one person. It stunk!

PaulieD

walshb wrote: »

BTW, the show was a complete disgrace. Completely loaded against one person and so set up. I think the audience too were brought in.
It was a show to berate one person. It stunk!

Of course it was.

[IMG]http://weww.boards.ie/vbulletin/Baroness Warsi[/IMG]

She didnt dress in her usual garb last night, I wonder why. Hmmmm?

Happy Monday

As far as I am aware not once did the BBC or anyone else refer to him as an MEP.
Hid did well to keep his cool while others lost their cool.
No such thing as bad publicity.
People who are unemployed and angry across the UK will be attracted to his banner - had the opposite impact of what was intended.

Biggins

PaulieD wrote: »

...it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total...

Just for the record - Mosney (alone) at present, this week is holding another 800 foreign residents that are awaiting access to our state system - including housing, rents paid for, full benefits, etc.


Total last month waiting for confirmation to stay:



(In August this year 22% of those coming in was from Nigeria alone - document: http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/RIAAug(A4)2009.pdf).
While they are even waiting, they get everything handed to them besides food and accommodation. Everything from multiple buggies, daily paid free taxi's (I know of two companies that have a permanent account with the camp and they are doing well!), discount vouchers for the purchase of cars (I can name some of the garages that have taken the government vouchers), real expensive clothing vouchers for the like of Louth shops the rest of us can seriously, barely afford to shop in (Hubert Tullys, Drogheda, being one). This on top of the already standard multiple immigration benefits they also immediately claim - my point is - it ALL boils down to one more serious drain on the whole state. Its crazy!

(I know the numbers and the details - a lot of other stuff which I am leaving out - as a relative also works up in the place.)

As part of my political life, I've spoken recently to an immigration officer north of the border. He tells me that daily they get many arriving at the Northern Belfast docks.
They give them two options a lot of the time.
1. That they be placed in a holding camp in the north with slim chance of staying (as they put it to them) and they will get bugger all benefits
...or...
2. They tell them to go south of the border. In fact they even pay for their bus/train ticket to take them here! They persuade them that life would be better for them down south and explain all the perks of heading south.

I'm not racist but on this topic alone - we DO need to do something.
Its just one more area that seriously needs to be addressed under the present financial climate.

You only have to still look at the massive queues (I was up there last week passing by at 7.30am and the doors was open already and an officer was filtering them through the door) outside the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) office in Dublin (along side the Liffey - 40 yards up from Tara Dart station) to see that Ireland is still worth the hassle of getting into for many!

If they want to work and contribute - welcome in - I'll personally buy them their first drink as a welcome.
If its just to milk the state - we seriously need to make changes in this whole area of welfare also!

A lot of statistics can be found here:
http://www.ria.gov.ie/statistics/
http://www.orac.ie/pages/Stats/statistics.htm
http://www.unhcr.ie/statistics.html

opo

Biggins wrote: »

2. They tell them to go south of the border. In fact they even pay for their bus/train ticket to take them here! They persuade them that life would be better for them down south and explain all the perks of heading south.

Out of dumb curiousity because this simply does not stack up....

Why do they enter the north in the first place if not to travel south? What do they expect to find in Belfast that they have not found in London? Why have there been no reports or complaints to the British government for paying for their travel arrangements? Is this not human trafficking after all?

I accept the north is a transit point for illegal immigrants bent on abusing Irelands absurd; and lucrative application of it's broken asylum system - no matter how groundless the claims - but this is fantasy.

Biggins

opo wrote: »

Out of dumb curiosity because this simply does not stack up....

Why do they enter the north in the first place if not to travel south? What do they expect to find in Belfast that they have not found in London? Why have there been no reports or complaints to the British government for paying for their travel arrangements? Is this not human trafficking after all?

I accept the north is a transit point for illegal immigrants bent on abusing Irelands absurd; and lucrative application of it's broken asylum system - no matter how groundless the claims - but this is fantasy.

A great number take what ever route they are given to them or what route avails to them at a moments notice.
Some jump onto and hide on continental trucking lorries and containers at Europe's dockyards. As it turns out unbeknown to some of them, rather than get docked at a Britain port, some wake up to find themselves in Northern Ireland - only then to be caught by the Northern Ireland's security.
Some also come via the Northern Ireland route (and then hope to get to mainland Britain) as its well sussed now (and for some time) that the larger English main docks/airports are more staffed and equipped to find the ones trying to smuggle themselves in.

They are given bus/train tickets to the south as far as Dundalk, Drogheda and Dublin.
I've spoken to taxi firms that have had to pick them up (with baggage from the stations) and bring them direct to the social welfare authorities, immigration authorities etc and/or Mosney for each to begin their stay application as soon as they can.

("human trafficking" = smuggling someone into another country or across borders for personal gain, exploitation or profit.)

opo

Biggins wrote: »

A great number take what ever route they are given to them or what route avails to them at a moments notice.
Some jump onto and hide on continental trucking lorries and containers at Europe's dockyards. As it turns out unbeknown to some of them, rather than get docked at a Britain port, some wake up to find themselves in Northern Ireland - only then to be caught by the Northern Ireland's security.
Some also come via the Northern Ireland route (and then hope to get to mainland Britain) as its well sussed now (and for some time) that the larger English main docks/airports are more staffed and equipped to find the ones trying to smuggle themselves in.

They are given bus/train tickets to the south as far as Dundalk, Drogheda and Dublin.
I've spoken to taxi firms that have had to pick them up (with baggage from the stations) and bring them direct to the social welfare authorities, immigration authorities etc and/or Mosney for each to begin their stay application as soon as they can.

("human trafficking" = smuggling someone into another country or across borders for personal gain, exploitation or profit.)

Again some questions.

Who exactly is paying for their fares from NI and under whose orders?
Why do we not see similar numbers turning up in say - Dublins ports?
What Countries are most represented in the numbers arriving in NI and where did the journeys begin?

You are quite correct to note that human trafficking includes exploitation if it is the case that they are being deceived or manipulated. If they are illegal immigrants, they should be treated as such by law. No genuine refugee should fear the asylum system anywhere in Europe or require the globetrotting sham we see in operation.

marco_polo

misstierney wrote: »

Too true. Put all of those lazy dole-drawing foreigners out. Every last one of them (well, except for the handful that have worked here long enough to earn their dole). It makes me sick and so angry to see vital health services cut and those thieves claiming.

It makes me quite angry when people spread false imigration myths and blatent misinformation in order to justify their own prejudice.

I hope that the error was unintentional.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/JobseekerSupports/JobseekersBenefit/Pages/jb.aspx

In order to qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit, you must pay Class A, H or P PRSI contributions. Class A is the one paid by most private sector employees. Class H is paid by soldiers, reservists and temporary army nurses, who do not qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit until they have left the army.

At least 104 weeks PRSI paid since you first started work
And

Have 39 weeks PRSI paid or credited in the relevant tax year (a minimum of 13 weeks must be paid contributions*)
Or

Have 26 weeks PRSI paid in the relevant tax year and 26 weeks PRSI paid in the tax year immediately before the relevant tax year.
*If you do not have 13 paid contributions in the relevant tax year, you must have the 13 contributions paid in any of one the following years:

The 2 tax years before the relevant tax year
The last complete tax year
The current tax year.

To be crystal clear everybody who recieves unemployment assistance in the state has worked here long enough to be entitled to it.

Agent Smith

Only just watched it there a few mins ago on youtube.


I'm surprised someone from the studio didnt try and jump him.


What he said about Jack straw's Family was a bit ott

marco_polo

Biggins wrote: »

Just for the record - Mosney (alone) at present, this week is holding another 800 foreign residents that are awaiting access to our state system - including housing, rents paid for, full benefits, etc.


Total last month waiting for confirmation to stay:



(In August this year 22% of those coming in was from Nigeria alone - document: http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/RIAAug(A4)2009.pdf).
While they are even waiting, they get everything handed to them besides food and accommodation. Everything from multiple buggies, daily paid free taxi's (I know of two companies that have a permanent account with the camp and they are doing well!), discount vouchers for the purchase of cars (I can name some of the garages that have taken the government vouchers), real expensive clothing vouchers for the like of Louth shops the rest of us can seriously, barely afford to shop in (Hubert Tullys, Drogheda, being one). This on top of the already standard multiple immigration benefits they also immediately claim - my point is - it ALL boils down to one more serious drain on the whole state. Its crazy!

(I know the numbers and the details - a lot of other stuff which I am leaving out - as a relative also works up in the place.)

As part of my political life, I've spoken recently to an immigration officer north of the border. He tells me that daily they get many arriving at the Northern Belfast docks.
They give them two options a lot of the time.
1. That they be placed in a holding camp in the north with slim chance of staying (as they put it to them) and they will get bugger all benefits
...or...
2. They tell them to go south of the border. In fact they even pay for their bus/train ticket to take them here! They persuade them that life would be better for them down south and explain all the perks of heading south.

I'm not racist but on this topic alone - we DO need to do something.
Its just one more area that seriously needs to be addressed under the present financial climate.

You only have to still look at the massive queues (I was up there last week passing by at 7.30am and the doors was open already and an officer was filtering them through the door) outside the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) office in Dublin (along side the Liffey - 40 yards up from Tara Dart station) to see that Ireland is still worth the hassle of getting into for many!

If they want to work and contribute - welcome in - I'll personally buy them their first drink as a welcome.
If its just to milk the state - we seriously need to make changes in this whole area of welfare also!

A lot of statistics can be found here:
http://www.ria.gov.ie/statistics/
http://www.orac.ie/pages/Stats/statistics.htm
http://www.unhcr.ie/statistics.html

More of it. Very long on hearsay Biggins and very short on fact.

http://www.theredcard.ie/fs/factsheet5.html

Myths
Have you heard the following statements?

"They get mobile phones from the welfare"
"I was at a bus stop and the bus driver asked if the Nigerian woman wanted to bring the buggy on but she said no because she would go and get another from the welfare officer"
"The social welfare are buying cars for refugees. I swear it. I had a health board cheque given to me for a car".

Why people insist on mouthing such untruths will remain a mystery, but what is not a mystery is the difficult conditions people face when they arrive in Ireland to apply for asylum.

..................................

Direct Provision
People seeking asylum live in what is called 'Direct Provision' Accommodation. The accommodation centres provide asylum-seekers with 3-meals a day and a small cash allowance of €19.10 per adult and €9.60 per child per week, (this has not changed since November 1999, even though other social welfare benefits have been increased since then), plus child benefit. However in 2004, entitlments to child benefit was withdrawn

Asylum seekers can also apply for exceptional needs payments but the payments are discretionary and in recent years, these have been drastically reduced or cut off.

Quite the life alright.

kumate_champ07

heres a quick video for anyone who missed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

PaulieD

marco_polo wrote: »

It makes me quite angry when people spread false imigration myths and blatent misinformation in order to justify their own prejudice.

I hope that the error was unintentional.



To be crystal clear everybody who recieves unemployment assistance in the state has worked here long enough to be entitled to it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.


2) Social Assistance (Non-Contributory).
This is paid on the basis of having a low income and is means tested (i.e. your income must be below a certain level). These payments do not depend on contributions made through PRSI.

Please contact DSFA for a full list of Social Insurance and Assistance payments.


Supplementary Welfare Allowance & Exceptional Needs Payments:
Health Service Executive Supplementary Welfare Allowance provides a basic weekly allowance as a right to eligible people who have little or no income. People with low incomes may also qualify for a weekly supplement payment under the scheme to meet certain special needs, for example, help with rent/mortgage interest payments. In addition, payments can also be made for urgent or exceptional needs. Supplementary Welfare Allowance and Exceptional Needs Payments are administered by the Health Services Executive (HSE). Health and personal social services in Ireland are now delivered by the Health Service Executive, through a network of Local Health Offices, health centres and clinics. You should apply for Supplementary Welfare Allowance tothe Community Welfare Officer at your local health centre.
For more information click here
For Local Health Centres: click here

Supplementary Welfare Allowance: All EU & EEA workers can now access these payments as long as they have a history of working in the state. The Community Welfare Officer, who administers the payment through the local Health Centres, decides whether the work done can be considered as 'effective and genuine work'. Eg, an EEA national who shows s/he has been working for 3 hours per day, five days a week for the last 3 months could be considered to have "genuine and effective" work. There is no clear definition of "genuine and effective employment" but an example given in the original DSFA circular states that "an EEA national who shows s/he has been working for 3 hours per day, five days a week for the last 3 months, and could be considered to have effective and genuine work". See.
The Habitual Residence Condition test is still applied to Unemployment Assistance.
For further information on the HRC click here.
Or contact your local social welfare officer.

http://www.mrci.ie/know_rights/social_welfare_system.html

bill_ashmount

PaulieD wrote: »

I have no agenda, just an average joe. I am simply pointing out to others that mass immigration has been an absolute disaster for the working class of Ireland.

Mass immigration has been a disaster for all of Europe, not just Ireland. However people like Nick Griffin and the BNP aren't the way to go and solve it. They offer nothing.

I'm hopeful, there is a big turning in Europe away from current immigration policies, this will eventually trickle down to the politicians.

The current aslyum process is a joke, dictated to European countries by the UN. I really admire the Japanese who ignore the UN's constant whinging and veiled threats. They accept a tiny number every year at their own pace.

What is going on all across Europe right now is a modern day invasion.

opo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Mass immigration has been a disaster for all of Europe, not just Ireland. However people like Nick Griffin and the BNP aren't the way to go and solve it. They offer nothing.

On the contrary, from the little I have seen of them, they offer:

An unpolitically correct pitch on illegal immigration that is not constantly prefaced by meaningless banalities about how magnificent it really is and inevitably transformed into a slanging match with the word "racist" being hurled around.
A sense of alarm over the scale of illegal immigration rather than the carry on as usual tripe and reversion to Germany in the 1940's to inform current debate.
A laymans fury with the actual practice of human rights acts in assisting wholly unvetted and sometimes dangerous illegal immigrants posing as asylum seekers.
A voice to the fear of a changing culture in a country that has seen deep pockets of segregation, race riots etc. that is not constantly patronising and insulting them by suggesting that “education” (or re-education) is the answer.

Whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not, this is a significant part of what I believe they offer. The rest have created the vacuum and from what I can see, remain incapable of doing anything other than expanding BNP appeal to target audiences.

Macha

Now they are claiming that 22% of voters would "seriously consider voting for the BNP" after the TV appearance:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8323638.stm

But the article goes on to say the poll was carried out by the Telegraph so what they're actually saying is 298 Telegraph reader would seriously consider voting for the BNP. Plus they didn't actually make any reference to his appearance on TV in the poll question.

Stop the press..

Nodin

PaulieD wrote: »

Well spit it out then. Less of the riddles, please.

'The problem lies with your attitude, not the immigrants'. In a nutshell.

PaulieD wrote: »

I am not (.....)the problem?

"BNP leader....", and thus we should consider his parties policies, not just what he managed to restrict the argument to on that occassion. The policies of his party are unashamedly racist, as detailed on their website.

taconnol wrote:

But the article goes on to say the poll was carried out by the Telegraph so what they're actually saying is 298 Telegraph reader would seriously consider voting for the BNP

Quelle Suprise.

djpbarry

Biggins wrote: »

While they are even waiting, they get everything handed to them besides food and accommodation. Everything from multiple buggies, daily paid free taxi's (I know of two companies that have a permanent account with the camp and they are doing well!), discount vouchers for the purchase of cars (I can name some of the garages that have taken the government vouchers), real expensive clothing vouchers for the like of Louth shops the rest of us can seriously, barely afford to shop in (Hubert Tullys, Drogheda, being one). This on top of the already standard multiple immigration benefits they also immediately claim - my point is - it ALL boils down to one more serious drain on the whole state.

Cool. My missus is non-EU, so I’m guessing we qualify for all of the above? Where do I apply?

djpbarry

bill_ashmount wrote: »

The current aslyum process is a joke, dictated to European countries by the UN. I really admire the Japanese who ignore the UN's constant whinging and veiled threats. They accept a tiny number every year at their own pace.

What is going on all across Europe right now is a modern day invasion.

Considering we only recognise about 400-500 refugees per year in this country, I’d say ‘invasion’ is an ever-so-slight over-statement.

djpbarry

taconnol wrote: »

But the article goes on to say the poll was carried out by the Telegraph so what they're actually saying is 298 Telegraph reader would seriously consider voting for the BNP. Plus they didn't actually make any reference to his appearance on TV in the poll question.

I found a recent poll on the YouGov website that states the following:

Headline Voting Intention|%
Con|41
Lab|30
Lib Dem|17
Other|12
Other Parties Voting Intention
UKIP|4
SNP / PCY|3
BNP|2
Green|2
Respect|0
Other|1

I don't think the political establishment will be quaking in their boots just yet.

Lockstep

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

The same folks managed to stop that well Bertie Ahern from talking to at the college. Really poor form.

I know; I was waiting to see him speak, unhappy with the way the whole thing turned out