BNP leader to appear on Question Time

bill_ashmount

djpbarry wrote: »

Considering we only recognise about 400-500 refugees per year in this country, I’d say ‘invasion’ is an ever-so-slight over-statement.

The EU allows in 2 million immigrants every single year. The same will occur next year and the year after that etc, etc....

We deported 40 failed asylum seekers last year. 20% of our population is foreign and in 2007 46% of our prison population was made up of foreign nationals.

doc_17

by giving them air time you give them credibility

bill_ashmount

opo wrote: »

On the contrary, from the little I have seen of them, they offer:

An unpolitically correct pitch on illegal immigration that is not constantly prefaced by meaningless banalities about how magnificent it really is and inevitably transformed into a slanging match with the word "racist" being hurled around.
A sense of alarm over the scale of illegal immigration rather than the carry on as usual tripe and reversion to Germany in the 1940's to inform current debate.
A laymans fury with the actual practice of human rights acts in assisting wholly unvetted and sometimes dangerous illegal immigrants posing as asylum seekers.
A voice to the fear of a changing culture in a country that has seen deep pockets of segregation, race riots etc. that is not constantly patronising and insulting them by suggesting that “education” (or re-education) is the answer.

Whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not, this is a significant part of what I believe they offer. The rest have created the vacuum and from what I can see, remain incapable of doing anything other than expanding BNP appeal to target audiences.

I agree. I understand why they get votes. I just think ultimately if they get enough power there could be serious problems.

The blame lies at the door of all european politicans and people in europe. What will happen is eventually there will be serious civil disorder, mass immigration is causing massive tension throughout the eu, this will come to a head soon. It's already occuring in The Netherlands and the current Belguim territory. I'd like to think there is a different way to sort it out than the BNP.

djpbarry

bill_ashmount wrote: »

The EU allows in 2 million immigrants every single year. The same will occur next year and the year after that etc, etc....

I thought you were talking about refugees?

With regard to non-EU nationals entering this country, I don’t think you’ve much to be worrying about – it’s extremely difficult to secure a work permit in Ireland if you don’t hold an EU passport. But, in general, immigration into the EU is necessary.

Nodin

bill_ashmount wrote: »

(..........)46% of our prison population was made up of foreign nationals.

No, it isn't.

You have a source for that claim?

bill_ashmount

djpbarry wrote: »

I thought you were talking about refugees?

With regard to non-EU nationals entering this country, I don’t think you’ve much to be worrying about – it’s extremely difficult to secure a work permit in Ireland if you don’t hold an EU passport. But, in general, immigration into the EU is necessary.

No, I'm talking all immigration.

Why is immigration into the eu necessary? If it is so necessary why don't South Korea and Japan who have lower fertility rates allow mass immigration?

What economic benefits does it provide, I don't see any, the last British government study I saw estimated a benefit of 60 pounds per immigrant. When the eu brings in 100 million immigrants in the next 50 years(which is what they are doing), what happens then? Do they increase the number again to keep the economy going in an ever expanding cycle of immigration. If the immigrants are paying for old european people now, who will pay for the immigrants when they retire, more immigrants?

Why can't the eu follow signapores example?

bill_ashmount

Nodin wrote: »

No, it isn't.

You have a source for that claim?

Your right, I was quoting from memory. The correct figure is 34%. This is a very acceptable figure. Hopefully the Irish people who were victims of these crimes will agree.

Figures available on Irish Prisons website.

Nodin

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Your right, I was quoting from memory. The correct figure is 34%..

Well, you were actually quoting your memory. The figure of "committals to prison" is 34% out of 10,900. 1034 persons were detained in relation to "immigration issues", most of them for less than 8 days and they were undoubtedly "foriegn nationals". So no, the long term prison population is not 34% "foriegn nationals".

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Hopefully the Irish people who were victims of these crimes will agree...

'Won't someome please think of the children'.

bill_ashmount

Nodin wrote: »

Well, you were actually quoting your memory. The figure of "committals to prison" is 34% out of 10,900. 1034 persons were detained in relation to "immigration issues", most of them for less than 8 days and they were undoubtedly "foriegn nationals". So no, the long term prison population is not 34% "foriegn nationals".



'Won't someome please think of the children'.

I mentioned the prison population, you're on about long term for some reason. This doesn't change the fact that 34% are foreigners, even if you mention 10% are in for immigration issues. What about the other 24%?

I'm glad you find people been the victims of crime funny.

Nodin

bill_ashmount wrote: »

I mentioned the prison population, you're on about long term for some reason. This doesn't change the fact that 34% are foreigners, .

"foreigners" do not compose 34% of the prison population.

bill_ashmount wrote: »

I'm glad you find people been the victims of crime funny.

No, its the use of victims of crime as an emotional smokescreen that I find funny.

Robbo

kickoutthejams wrote: »

David Irving was going to speak in NUIG and the Socialist Party/SWP/Stickies contacted AntiFa to stop him getting in, in the end the college had to shut down the whole thing as they coudn't guarantee Irving's safety. Utter bollocks in my opinion, such ideas are like mushrooms; they grow when kept in the dark and fed ****. SHining light on them destroys them. By curtailing freedom of expression they are doing as much to honor Hitler's memory as the fascists are. I'd much rather see such ideas debated in public rather than told to an audience without any opposition.

In relation to the David Irving thing, if you hang around NUIG long enough, you'll see he crops up time and time again as a cheap attention seeking stunt by some of the less imaginative undergrads. Most recent incident aside, he was down for a gig in 2001 and at some point between.

All with the same inevitable result. It's as predictable a pattern of behaviour from undergrad society committee members as a scantily-clad lady on a poster or lollipops on Socs Day.

Regarding Griffin on Question Time, I just watched it there and was slightly ill at ease that baiting him was allowed to hijack the agenda. I feel Dimbelby should have varied the agenda to allow him to embarrass himself on a broader range of topics and demonstrate how shallow his politics are.

Aside: Is it entirely possible to discuss *anything* related to immigration without the "free prams" line getting trotted out and a selection of miscontextualised and often incorrect statistics being spouted, Rain Man style?

walshb

I really don't see any necessity to immigration into the EU as one has claimed.
All I see is addeds stress and problems to the country which takes
this on board.

BTW, there are plenty of persons coming here, and it ain't to ****ing work.
Anyone claiming otherwise is deluded to be perfectly honset. We are quite possibly the softest touch on planet earth, and we're being ridden senseless.

bill_ashmount

Nodin wrote: »

"foreigners" do not compose 34% of the prison population.

Yawn, keep playing with semantics

No, its the use of victims of crime as an emotional smokescreen that I find funny.

It's not an emotional smokescreen, these people exist and have been the victims of crime. Just because it hasn't affected you doesn't make it ok.

bill_ashmount

Robbo wrote: »

In relation to the David Irving thing, if you hang around NUIG long enough, you'll see he crops up time and time again as a cheap attention seeking stunt by some of the less imaginative undergrads. Most recent incident aside, he was down for a gig in 2001 and at some point between.

All with the same inevitable result. It's as predictable a pattern of behaviour from undergrad society committee members as a scantily-clad lady on a poster or lollipops on Socs Day.

Regarding Griffin on Question Time, I just watched it there and was slightly ill at ease that baiting him was allowed to hijack the agenda. I feel Dimbelby should have varied the agenda to allow him to embarrass himself on a broader range of topics and demonstrate how shallow his politics are.

Aside: Is it entirely possible to discuss *anything* related to immigration without the "free prams" line getting trotted out and a selection of miscontextualised and often incorrect statistics being spouted, Rain Man style?

Agreed.

deadhead13

walshb wrote: »

BTW, there are plenty of persons coming here, and it ain't to ****ing work.
Anyone claiming otherwise is deluded to be perfectly honset. We are quite possibly the softest touch on planet earth, and we're being ridden senseless.

Last year there were 4,790 asylum seeker applicants, 1,465 were granted over the same period. This is only slightly higher the the european average. Only once the application is processed can a person claim benefits or work for that matter. EU immigrants can only recieve benefits after 2 years of PRSI contributions. The issuing of work permits to non-EU nationals have been restricted. So what are you basing this on?

djpbarry

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Why is immigration into the eu necessary? If it is so necessary why don't South Korea and Japan who have lower fertility rates allow mass immigration?

The population of Japan is set to collapse (and their economy with it) unless there is either (a) a significant increase in the birth rate (which seems unlikely) or (b) a large increase in immigration.

bill_ashmount wrote: »

What economic benefits does it provide, I don't see any, the last British government study I saw estimated a benefit of 60 pounds per immigrant.

You don’t see any benefits, but you refer to a study that estimated a net benefit?

bill_ashmount wrote: »

When the eu brings in 100 million immigrants in the next 50 years(which is what they are doing), what happens then? Do they increase the number again to keep the economy going in an ever expanding cycle of immigration. If the immigrants are paying for old european people now, who will pay for the immigrants when they retire, more immigrants?

Let me answer that with a question – what happens to the EU in the medium-to-long term if all immigration from non-EU countries ceases? A 2006 report from The Economic Policy Committee and The European Commission estimated that the working population in the EU is set to decline by approximately 16% between now and 2050. What do you suggest we do about that?

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Why can't the eu follow signapores example?

What do you mean?

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

We are quite possibly the softest touch on planet earth, and we're being ridden senseless.

I think this one’s challenging ‘free prams’ for top spot.

deadhead13 wrote: »

Last year there were 4,790 asylum seeker applicants, 1,465 were granted over the same period.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your stats from. According to the Reception and Integration Agency website, in 2008 there were 3,866 applications for asylum made in Ireland. Of the 4,589 applications processed to completion in the same year, just 295 received positive recommendations.

PaulieD

djpbarry wrote: »

Of the 4,589 applications processed to completion in the same year, just 295 received positive recommendations.

We should deport the other 4,294. This madness cannot continue, we are a bankrupt nation.

Mr Aylward said applications are being made at the last minute on the last possible day and frustrating the system.
He said a lot of people have an interest in stringing out the process.
Mr Aylward said 1,500 people of the 7,000 people being housed at the moment have 'repeatedly over and over invoked new avenues of appeal'. The cost of housing asylum seekers in 2008 was €91m, an increase of 16% over 2006.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1008/asylum.html

PaulieD

deadhead13 wrote: »

. EU immigrants can only recieve benefits after 2 years of PRSI contributions. The issuing of work permits to non-EU nationals have been restricted. So what are you basing this on?

Will people stop repeating this lie. Thanks.


2) Social Assistance (Non-Contributory).
This is paid on the basis of having a low income and is means tested (i.e. your income must be below a certain level). These payments do not depend on contributions made through PRSI.

Please contact DSFA for a full list of Social Insurance and Assistance payments.


Supplementary Welfare Allowance & Exceptional Needs Payments:
Health Service Executive Supplementary Welfare Allowance provides a basic weekly allowance as a right to eligible people who have little or no income. People with low incomes may also qualify for a weekly supplement payment under the scheme to meet certain special needs, for example, help with rent/mortgage interest payments. In addition, payments can also be made for urgent or exceptional needs. Supplementary Welfare Allowance and Exceptional Needs Payments are administered by the Health Services Executive (HSE). Health and personal social services in Ireland are now delivered by the Health Service Executive, through a network of Local Health Offices, health centres and clinics. You should apply for Supplementary Welfare Allowance tothe Community Welfare Officer at your local health centre.
For more information click here
For Local Health Centres: click here

Supplementary Welfare Allowance: All EU & EEA workers can now access these payments as long as they have a history of working in the state. The Community Welfare Officer, who administers the payment through the local Health Centres, decides whether the work done can be considered as 'effective and genuine work'. Eg, an EEA national who shows s/he has been working for 3 hours per day, five days a week for the last 3 months could be considered to have "genuine and effective" work. There is no clear definition of "genuine and effective employment" but an example given in the original DSFA circular states that "an EEA national who shows s/he has been working for 3 hours per day, five days a week for the last 3 months, and could be considered to have effective and genuine work". See.
The Habitual Residence Condition test is still applied to Unemployment Assistance.
For further information on the HRC click here.
Or contact your local social welfare officer.

http://www.mrci.ie/know_rights/socia...re_system.html

deadhead13

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m not sure where you’re getting your stats from. According to the Reception and Integration Agency website, in 2008 there were 3,866 applications for asylum made in Ireland. Of the 4,589 applications processed to completion in the same year, just 295 received positive recommendations.

I was qouting from memory an Irish Examiner article I read last may, which I got a bit mixed up. The 4,790 figure I wrongly attributed to applications were in fact applications processed. But EU figures released in May claimed that asylum applications granted were 1,465 last year. It is this figure which is slightly above the EU average not as I claimed earlier the overall number of applications which is in fact high in repect of other EU countries.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/05/09/story91312.asp

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

I really don't see any necessity to immigration into the EU as one has claimed.
All I see is addeds stress and problems to the country which takes
this on board.

BTW, there are plenty of persons coming here, and it ain't to ****ing work.
Anyone claiming otherwise is deluded to be perfectly honset. We are quite possibly the softest touch on planet earth, and we're being ridden senseless.

Could you at least try to relate to the thread topic?

deadhead13

PaulieD wrote: »

Will people stop repeating this lie. Thanks.

You are correct, I and a number of other posters on here who have brought up the 2 year residency rule were, in fact, wrong to do so. The 2004 legislation insisting that citzens of EU countries must live in Ireland for a least two years before qualifying for social welfare payments was overturned in 2006. I don't share your views on immigration but on this point I stand corrected.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-can-now-claim-benefits-117810.html

misstierney

marco_polo wrote: »

It makes me quite angry when people spread false imigration myths and blatent misinformation in order to justify their own prejudice.

I hope that the error was unintentional.



To be crystal clear everybody who recieves unemployment assistance in the state has worked here long enough to be entitled to it.

You're talking about Jobseekers Benefit. Jobseekers Allowance is MEANS TESTED. You don't have to work a day in your sweet life to get that. You overly liberal race appeaser.

PaulieD

deadhead13 wrote: »

You are correct, I and a number of other posters on here who have brought up the 2 year residency rule were, in fact, wrong to do so. The 2004 legislation insisting that citzens of EU countries must live in Ireland for a least two years before qualifying for social welfare payments was overturned in 2006. I don't share your views on immigration but on this point I stand corrected.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-can-now-claim-benefits-117810.html

No problem. Just out of curiosity, what do you believe my views to be?

saol alainn

misstierney wrote: »

You're talking about Jobseekers Benefit. Jobseekers Allowance is MEANS TESTED. You don't have to work a day in your sweet life to get that. You overly liberal race appeaser.

Are you sure about that? I, an EU national, have been living in Ireland for the past six years together with my husband, whose great-grandad was irish, and our kids. My husband's been working all the time, while I've been on part-time jobs, as children were too young for me to work full-time, but recently lost my job because the business folded. Anyway, all I can sign for are credits, even though I'd transferred my NI payments into the irish system. Apart from the credits, I'm not entitled to a penny. Be it jobseekers benefit or allowance. But, as you're saying so, I'd better pop into the social welfare office again.

saol alainn

And no, my husband doesn't earn thousands. If I were to apply for FIS, we'd be entitled to a certain amount, as it is. But as long as we can keep the ball rolling, I'm not planning to apply. Although it seems just because you're foreign, you're a bummer, out for the benefits. Yes, there are many, many of them. But it's upsetting to be lumped in altogether.

PaulieD

Biggins wrote: »

Just for the record - Mosney (alone) at present, this week is holding another 800 foreign residents that are awaiting access to our state system - including housing, rents paid for, full benefits, etc.


Total last month waiting for confirmation to stay:



(In August this year 22% of those coming in was from Nigeria alone - document: http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/RIAAug(A4)2009.pdf).
While they are even waiting, they get everything handed to them besides food and accommodation. Everything from multiple buggies, daily paid free taxi's (I know of two companies that have a permanent account with the camp and they are doing well!), discount vouchers for the purchase of cars (I can name some of the garages that have taken the government vouchers), real expensive clothing vouchers for the like of Louth shops the rest of us can seriously, barely afford to shop in (Hubert Tullys, Drogheda, being one). This on top of the already standard multiple immigration benefits they also immediately claim - my point is - it ALL boils down to one more serious drain on the whole state. Its crazy!

(I know the numbers and the details - a lot of other stuff which I am leaving out - as a relative also works up in the place.)

As part of my political life, I've spoken recently to an immigration officer north of the border. He tells me that daily they get many arriving at the Northern Belfast docks.
They give them two options a lot of the time.
1. That they be placed in a holding camp in the north with slim chance of staying (as they put it to them) and they will get bugger all benefits
...or...
2. They tell them to go south of the border. In fact they even pay for their bus/train ticket to take them here! They persuade them that life would be better for them down south and explain all the perks of heading south.

I'm not racist but on this topic alone - we DO need to do something.
Its just one more area that seriously needs to be addressed under the present financial climate.

You only have to still look at the massive queues (I was up there last week passing by at 7.30am and the doors was open already and an officer was filtering them through the door) outside the The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) office in Dublin (along side the Liffey - 40 yards up from Tara Dart station) to see that Ireland is still worth the hassle of getting into for many!

If they want to work and contribute - welcome in - I'll personally buy them their first drink as a welcome.
If its just to milk the state - we seriously need to make changes in this whole area of welfare also!

A lot of statistics can be found here:
http://www.ria.gov.ie/statistics/
http://www.orac.ie/pages/Stats/statistics.htm
http://www.unhcr.ie/statistics.html

Can you confirm this, Biggins? If what you say is true, there is only one solution. Mass deportations.

djpbarry

PaulieD wrote: »

We should deport the other 4,294.

You’re assuming they are still in the country?

deadhead13 wrote: »

I was qouting from memory an Irish Examiner article I read last may, which I got a bit mixed up. The 4,790 figure I wrongly attributed to applications were in fact applications processed. But EU figures released in May claimed that asylum applications granted were 1,465 last year.

Hmm. Strange that – I’m not sure where they’re getting their figures from, but the official figures are available online at www.ria.gov.ie.

PaulieD

saol alainn wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I, an EU national, have been living in Ireland for the past six years together with my husband, whose great-grandad was irish, and our kids.

Yes, see the links I posted in this thread.

saol alainn

PaulieD wrote: »

Yes, see the links I posted in this thread.

Yes, was just reading this http://www.mrci.ie/know_rights/social_welfare_system.html, in fact. According to the article, yes, if I understand it correctly, I should be entitled to something, apart from the credits. I wonder why I was told otherwise?

On the other hand, I know a couple of (irish) mums who are in the same boat, as it were, as me, and they, too, only qualify for credits. We'd been trying to get on the CE schemes with no luck, as we don't receive any welfare assistance. Talk about a catch-22 situation.