Halve Dole for Under 24s

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/mary-hanafin-tells-newstalk-cabinet-considering-halving-dole-payments-for-under-24%E2%80%99s-2/

The Social and Family Affairs Minister has confirmed the cabinet’s looking at halving dole payments for everyone under 24 in the budget.

The measure was introduced for the under 20’s in April, and Newstalk has seen a circular from Mary Hanafin’s department proposing extending it further in December – such a move could affect payments for nearly 91,000 people

The cost of Welfare is up for discussion at today’s Cabinet meeting.

Minister Mary Hanafin says they’re trying to encourage people to work hard at finding a job.

amacachi

Disgraceful if they do it. Surely a bloody 5% cut across the board would save more (and I think 5% is on the low side too)? I know plenty of people in their early 20s who've done more honest work than 40 and 50 year olds already but because of their age they're being penalised? It's a total bull****. Just another "**** you" to the young in this country who haven't been perfect up til now.

leninbenjamin

I know plenty of people under 24 who also defraud the system and claim full payments when living at home. It's a bit of a pisser to implement this way, but something is needed.

limericklassy

Most people at that age dont have a house or kids. So i would say its a good idea. I am sure there will be safeguards for people with kids etc.

Sea Sharp

So now we can't even save up to emigrate!!!!

Proper Irish politics, p1ss off the people who are less likely to vote.

amacachi

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I know plenty of people under 24 who also defraud the system and claim full payments when living at home. It's a bit of a pisser to implement this way, but something is needed.

Perfectly possible to live at home and be entitled to full payment. There's as much if not more fraud with older people, target them. Or just target everyone. Totally rubbish excuse for this.

If this affects the BTEA it looks like I'll be out of college.

Long Onion

No problem with it - there are jobs there for those who want them problem is that they are not attractive due to the rates paid by the welfare - give a real incentive to find work. I would be in favour of keeping the benefit higher for those who return to education though.

amacachi

limericklassy wrote: »

Most people at that age dont have a house or kids. So i would say its a good idea. I am sure there will be safeguards for people with kids etc.

Increase (proportionally) the amount given to families with kids then, halving it is just BS.

theTinker

This really grinds my gears.

I understand the huge need to cut costs but halving dole to encourage people to find work when job availability is so low, and demand so high, is shameful.
I know a few people under 24 who are claiming but would very much like to work. Theres very little employment right now and with numbers approaching 500,000 and still growing, I believe this is just the government targeting a weaker section of the population.
Nobody over 24 will protest against this, so it isolates a section of the population and targets them solely. Making any cries against it, barely audible. This pattern could easily be repeated again and again until everyone is hit. I think its nasty and sneaky.

Why 24? Why not under 30's? Do they think people less than 24 years of age are less interested in work after the graduate? What about people under 24 who don't live with mammy and daddy?

I'm 24 and have a mortgage, if i had been made unemployed while 23..this would of crippled me completely.

eoinbn

theTinker wrote: »

I'm 24 and have a mortgage, if i had been made unemployed while 23..this would of crippled me completely.

Repeat after me:

"The dole is not suppose to pay my mortgage".

limericklassy

If these young people live at home, they dont have to pay for all the bills, etc. Say a 23 year old living at home and a 30 year old with two kids on their own. the latter getting 20 euros extra for each kid, then having to run the household on say 250 euros a week.

the current rule for under 20's is that if you are in education or have kids you will get the full dole.

Permabear

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theTinker

Long Onion wrote: »

there are jobs there for those who want them problem is that they are not attractive due to the rates paid by the welfare

It's true that the rate of pay dictates some peoples decision to work. That however is entirely irrelevant of age.

This is also only applicable for people near min wage too. My GF has an interview with 2 toy stores today hoping to even pick up work for christmas. She said the boss told her that they have 80 applicants for till operator in Smyths. Jobs are there yeah, just happens to be FAR LESS than the number required. Finding working is ridiculously hard these days, penalizing those who are looking is disgraceful

amacachi

limericklassy wrote: »

if you are in education or have kids you will get the full dole.

Huh? No-one in full-time education gets the dole. If they do, send me their names and addresses. :P

limericklassy

amacachi wrote: »

Huh? No-one in full-time education gets the dole. If they do, send me their names and addresses. :P

If you go on the dole at 18 say and are on it for a year, go and do a fas course or college would you not get the full dole. With college you could go on the BTEA. Correct me if i am wrong.

theTinker

eoinbn wrote: »

Repeat after me:

"The dole is not suppose to pay my mortgage".

I never said it was suppose to pay for it?
I pay my own from my own wages as i've been lucky enough to hang onto my job while most of my team were let go.

However plenty of under 24s who have tried to place themselves as independent by renting, or buying, not sponging off family, who have lost thier jobs(which is alot since its often less experienced staff gone first) are going to be really crippled by this. They're already fecked as far as rent/bills etc, now half of their income will vanish.

mega man

I think a simpler solution would be to stop paying all the immigrants social welfare benefits. why the under 24? why not the over 55? wtf?

amacachi

limericklassy wrote: »

If you go on the dole at 18 say and are on it for a year, go and do a fas course or college would you not get the full dole. With college you could go on the BTEA. Correct me if i am wrong.

I'm on the BTEA at the moment as it happens. I wouldn't really call FAS courses full time as usually they're short and it takes the useless ****ers that long to organise one that you're on the dole for 10 months of the year anyway.
If my BTEA is halved I literally won't have enough money to pay my fees and transport up and down. Nevermind food.

smog

why not just go dutch ... the more you have put into the system the more you are entitled out of it.

TelePaul

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, it does seem discriminatory - why 24? Why not 23 or 26 or 28, how about 32? Seems like a fairly arbitrary figure to base such a radical change upon. On the other hand, alot of my mates who are on social welfare spend it in the pub or aren't really entitled to it in the first instance. I'm funding their drinking and welfare fraud through my income tax and that really annoys me.

meglome

donegalfella wrote: »

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I agree with this. That is to say I wish it wasn't so but it is, reality isn't always pretty.

limericklassy

amacachi wrote: »

I'm on the BTEA at the moment as it happens. I wouldn't really call FAS courses full time as usually they're short and it takes the useless ****ers that long to organise one that you're on the dole for 10 months of the year anyway.
If my BTEA is halved I literally won't have enough money to pay my fees and transport up and down. Nevermind food.

They wont cut the BTEA, that would cause too many problems. The fact that nothing was said when they cut it for the under 20's was a test run to see the problems. As it didnt i see any this decision to put it up to 24 does not surprise me.

Theres a bunch a guys opposite me who do nothing but party and play football. This is the group i would like targeted. Plus the SW tourism by the immigrants.

Sea Sharp

I think there's no problem cutting the dole in half but this is just f*cking p1ssing me off.

They're singling out a section of society that is known to not bother voting in elections. That's what's annoying me.

Theres a bunch a guys opposite me who do nothing but party and play football. This is the group i would like targeted. Plus the SW tourism by the immigrants.

There are people who abuse welfare entitlements from all age groups.
If people are going to make claims along the lines of 'that age group' then show me the statistics!!!

limericklassy

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

I think there's no problem cutting the dole in half but this is just f*cking p1ssing me off.

They're singling out a section of society that is known to not bother voting in elections. That's what's annoying me.




There are people who abuse welfare entitlements from all age groups.
If people are going to make claims along the lines of 'that age group' then show me the statistics!!!

Totally agree with you. There are people in all age groups. And as you say they dont vote in elections

Nodin

eoinbn wrote: »

Repeat after me:

"The dole is not suppose to pay my mortgage".

So your implication is that because he lost his job, he should become homeless?

ei.sdraob

Nodin wrote: »

So your implication is that because he lost his job, he should become homeless?

he should hand back his key

and claim rent allowance

once again, the dole is not there to pay a mortgage


owning a house is a luxury not a right

:mad:

Nody

limericklassy wrote: »

Theres a bunch a guys opposite me who do nothing but party and play football. This is the group i would like targeted. Plus the SW tourism by the immigrants.

You mean except the part where they have to have paid in their taxes for two years before they can claim it vs. Irish who get it with out working a day in their life, right?

limericklassy

Nody wrote: »

You mean except the part where they have to have paid in their taxes for two years before they can claim it vs. Irish who get it with out working a day in their life, right?

I will not tar everbody with the same brush. The loafers are everywhere. SW tourism where they just come in to claim the dole. As far as i know they dont have to be working two years here, according to the SW site. It was a while back i read it,

Pedro K

donegalfella wrote: »

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While I acknowledge a very valid point you've made.

I'm 20. I've been working and paying taxes since I was 16.

I had been in full time employment on a full time salary up until the end of June this year when I was let go. I am experienced and was always working for more than minimum wage. [edit] I wasn't in full time employment from the time I was 16 though, I finished school. [/edit]

My Dole isn't much at all. (I was over 20 when they cut it for the <20s in the last budget so it is more than 100, but not much more at all). If they half my dole I will be crippled financially.

I also have been actively looking for work since being let go, as I find myself bored silly at home all day and would much rather get work.

Unfortunately there just aint much work out there to get.

This cut won't give me any extra encouragement to find work, I don't need extra encouragement
All this cut will do is make me (and most of the young people, apprentices etc. who've lost their jobs too) feel even more bitter towards the current government.

ei.sdraob

Pedro K wrote: »

While I acknowledge a very valid point you've made.

I'm 20. I've been working and paying taxes since I was 16.

I had been in full time employment on a full time salary up until the end of June this year when I was let go. I am experienced and was always working for more than minimum wage.

My Dole isn't much at all. (I was over 20 when they cut it for the <20s in the last budget so it is more than 100, but not much more at all). If they half my dole I will be crippled financially.

I also have been actively looking for work since being let go, as I find myself bored silly at home all day and would much rather get work.

Unfortunately there just aint much work out there to get.

This cut won't give me any extra encouragement to find work, I don't need extra encouragement
All this cut will do is make me (and most of the young people, apprentices etc. who've lost their jobs too) feel even more bitter towards the current government.

why not avail of the multitude of free/cheap education avenues available? and learn new skills

Permabear

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