Halve Dole for Under 24s

dearg lady

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why not avail of the multitude of free/cheap education avenues available? and learn new skills

It can be quite difficult to get a place on a course even, and I can only assume it will get worse as more and more people become unemployed.

optocynic

dearg lady wrote: »

It can be quite difficult to get a place on a course even, and I can only assume it will get worse as more and more people become unemployed.

I'm sorry... but that sounds like an excuse!.. or even a cop-out...

Effort should, and will be, rewarded..

If you want something out of life, you need to earn it.. lots of people out there have recently lost their jobs.. they will fight hard to get one back.. and if they are under 24... they won't really care that the allowance will be cut... cos they ARE searching for new employment...

dearg lady

optocynic wrote: »

I'm sorry... but that sounds like an excuse!.. or even a cop-out...

Effort should, and will be, rewarded..

If you want something out of life, you need to earn it.. lots of people out there have recently lost their jobs.. they will fight hard to get one back.. and if they are under 24... they won't really care that the allowance will be cut... cos they ARE searching for new employment...

Well I can only go on what I've seen, a friend of mine applied for 8 or 10 FAS course before getting accepted on one, there was literally hundreds of people applying for 20 places. Definitely people should take advantage of any retraining oppurtunities, I'm just pointing out that there can be a long wait.

ei.sdraob

optocynic wrote: »

I'm sorry... but that sounds like an excuse!.. or even a cop-out...

Effort should, and will be, rewarded..

If you want something out of life, you need to earn it.. lots of people out there have recently lost their jobs.. they will fight hard to get one back.. and if they are under 24... they won't really care that the allowance will be cut... cos they ARE searching for new employment...

it is a cop out

there are so many empty places in science and engineering courses across this country, hell some places had to even stop certain engineering courses because as recent as 2008/2009 year there are not enough people availing of excellent opportunities

im only talking about sci/eng as thats the area i know about and still have connections in institutes and universities

im sure there are other courses that would be happy to get more people, and you can endup with a decent job and new skills

Pedro K

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I do definitely agree that social welfare needs to be cut. There are far far too many leeches in the system, but at the same time, right now, I'm in the system, and will be finding it hard to get by at all if they do halve my dole.

Nozebleed

i say scrap the mortgage allowance..

ei.sdraob

Nozebleed wrote: »

i say scrap the mortgage allowance..

among many other things

i dont see why some people should be subsidizing others thirst for owning property

dearg lady

ei.sdraob wrote: »

it is a cop out

there are so many empty places in science and engineering courses across this country, hell some places had to even stop certain engineering courses because as recent as 2008/2009 year there are not enough people availing of excellent opportunities

im only talking about sci/eng as thats the area i know about and still have connections in institutes and universities

im sure there are other courses that would be happy to get more people, and you can endup with a decent job and new skills

Ok, fair enough, but there's always going to be some areas with higher demand than other, it ebbs and flows. My point was, things are never that black and white, there are courses people want to do and are left waiting. there'll always be SOME people who'll be lazy feckers and won't take any oppurtunities, happy to twiddle their thumbs and collect dole at the end of the week.

dearg lady

ei.sdraob wrote: »

among many other things

i dont see why some people should be subsidizing others thirst for owning property

So just out of interest, do you think rent allowance shoudl also be scrapped?

ei.sdraob

dearg lady wrote: »

Ok, fair enough, but there's always going to be some areas with higher demand than other, it ebbs and flows. My point was, things are never that black and white, there are courses people want to do and are left waiting. there'll always be SOME people who'll be lazy feckers and won't take any oppurtunities, happy to twiddle their thumbs and collect dole at the end of the week.

thats life

theres no lack of opportunities in Ireland and abroad thanks to education that can be received here, just ask people from most countries out there what they would give for an education system thats free/extremely cheap


i dont see why anyone should be giving a cent to anyone who is

dearg lady wrote: »

"lazy feckers and won't take any oppurtunities, happy to twiddle their thumbs and collect dole at the end of the week."

and neither do i feel sorry for anyone who is to lazy to see and grab the opportunities available, i know i might sound like an arsehole saying this, but it has to be said, the sense of entitlement is just crazy, its this type of selfish attitude that got this country in such a mess

dearg lady

ei.sdraob wrote: »

thats life

theres no lack of opportunities in Ireland and abroad thanks to education that can be received here, just ask people from most countries out there what they would give for an education system thats free/extremely cheap


i dont see why anyone should be giving a cent to anyone who is


and neither do i feel sorry for anyone who is to lazy to see and grab the opportunities available, i know i might sound like an arsehole saying this, but it has to be said, the sense of entitlement is just crazy, its this type of selfish attitude that got this country in such a mess

uh, you've lost me, I can't see how that has anything to do with what I was saying :rolleyes:

optocynic

ei.sdraob wrote: »

thats life

theres no lack of opportunities in Ireland and abroad thanks to education that can be received here, just ask people from most countries out there what they would give for an education system thats free/extremely cheap


i dont see why anyone should be giving a cent to anyone who is


and neither do i feel sorry for anyone who is to lazy to see and grab the opportunities available, i know i might sound like an arsehole saying this, but it has to be said, the sense of entitlement is just crazy, its this type of selfish attitude that got this country in such a mess

People can call you an arsehole... but, this is what I call the ugly truth... Bertie handed out too much to buy votes.. and there is a rotten core in Irish society, where they hate the successful.. and expect them to carry us all... on their hard work and endevour!!!

ei.sdraob

dearg lady wrote: »

uh, you've lost me, I can't see how that has anything to do with what I was saying :rolleyes:

i went off on a tangent dont mine me

it wasnt aimed at yourself @dearg lady

anyways back to work

HereticPrincess

There was me worrying about losing my job due to the recession when I was 19..

After turning 20 I thought, well at least if worse comes to it & I lose my job during the recession I won't be stuck to cover my rent until I find a new job.

So now, if I'm cut from work (hopefully not) I'll barely be able to pay my rent if this goes through

the_dark_side

only the start.... 91000 x 105 = 9555000 x 52 weeks = 496860000

so its still under half a billion. 4.5 billion to go....

It will mean this, pubs will take a big hit. Im a musician and over one third of the people that are in pubs at the weekend are under 24. This catagory of young people will become the new dependants of the country.

Less u-24 year olds on the road... motoring costs etc. Clothes shops will take a big hit, less people travelling abroad on short breaks. Mobile phone companies will also be affected, unbelievable when you consider that less 4-5 years ago, a 20 year old could make 700-800 euro a week if you had a trade and had your wits about you.

wolfpawnat

limericklassy wrote: »

Most people at that age dont have a house or kids. So i would say its a good idea. I am sure there will be safeguards for people with kids etc.

I am 22 and I have a son and am trying to go back to college. I have no way of living at home and I need my social welfare to tied me over until I get a quailification and become a tax payer again!

Nodin

ei.sdraob wrote: »

he should hand back his key

and claim rent allowance

once again, the dole is not there to pay a mortgage


owning a house is a luxury not a right

:mad:

Ooooo...bold and red faces....

What next, if you fall below a certain income you lose the right to vote?

A man buys a house. Through a series of misfortunes, none of which is his fault he loses his job a few years down the line. Why should he not use whatever money he's entitled to to pay off whatever his on-going expenses?

gerire

Any chance we can also hit the scrote bags who have never, never will and have no intention of looking for work, scrounge off the system and just get a girl knocked up to live for half nothing and end up with more in their pocket per week than I have a chance of having;

Get them where it hurts, I'd rather see them halved in their dole takings

hobochris

ei.sdraob wrote: »

it is a cop out

there are so many empty places in science and engineering courses across this country, hell some places had to even stop certain engineering courses because as recent as 2008/2009 year there are not enough people availing of excellent opportunities

im only talking about sci/eng as thats the area i know about and still have connections in institutes and universities

im sure there are other courses that would be happy to get more people, and you can end up with a decent job and new skills

This statement IMO is a cop out.

FYI I am referring to computer sci which is one of the sci area's with the lack of course interest.

I know so many young people who pursued these courses only to qualify go out into the job market recently And find no work for them. The reason being is that many companies either have hire freezes on or do not want grads, they want experienced people, which there is a lack of.

These companies then go complain to government bodies about the lack of IT people while the qualified grads end up signing on.

The government should be encouraging these companies to take on grads and give them the experience that that these companies are looking for.

Nodin wrote: »

Ooooo...bold and red faces....

What next, if you fall below a certain income you lose the right to vote?

A man buys a house. Through a series of misfortunes, none of which is his fault he loses his job a few years down the line. Why should he not use whatever money he's entitled to to pay off whatever his on-going expenses?

Fair enough if that's what he chooses to spend his allowance on, BUT he should not receive any extra benefits over someone who chose not to purchase.

amacachi

Nowhere have I said that the dole shouldn't be cut, I'm in favour of across-the-board cuts.

To the people talking about fraud, ****ING REPORT IT!

Someone mentioned the BTEA won't be affected, but if I sign on next summer it will be at whatever rate the dole is at and when I go back to college that's where it will stay. I'll have to drop out and will owe a tidy sum of money out still. I'm trying to actually do something with my life after a mistake but hey, beats losing votes.

wolfpawnat

gerire wrote: »

Any chance we can also hit the scrote bags who have never, never will and have no intention of looking for work, scrounge off the system and just get a girl knocked up to live for half nothing and end up with more in their pocket per week than I have a chance of having;

Get them where it hurts, I'd rather see them halved in their dole takings

Unfortunately this is a lifestyle that some people have become accustomed to, but to attack them is to attack me. I have a child and since I cannot find work I need these payments to keep us going! I want to work and I want to pay taxes but I cannot afford to go back into my college course I was in last year as I truly have no way of affording it if this occurs

Idbatterim

"Any chance we can also hit the scrote bags who have never, never will and have no intention of looking for work, scrounge off the system and just get a girl knocked up to live for half nothing and end up with more in their pocket per week than I have a chance of having;"

You hit the nail on the head! A saving of half a billion is quite a large sum though! Its just so difficult if not nigh on impossible to sort out the needs and need nots and the scroungers and non scroungers!

Kered75

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I know plenty of people under 24 who also defraud the system and claim full payments when living at home. It's a bit of a pisser to implement this way, but something is needed.

Plenty of politicans have defrauded this country over the years yet come the next election the same people crying about how the dole should be cut will vote these same politicans back in.

schween

Out of interest, does anybody know how much the dole is in other countries?

gerry28

schween wrote: »

Out of interest, does anybody know how much the dole is in other countries?

In the UK its £50 for under 25's and 64 for over 25's per week. In some of the EU countries its a percentage of your salary before you were made redundant.



People who will not be affected by the new rates will prob be the same as that for the 18 and 19 yr olds getting the new €100 rate

• Young people with dependent children.
  -Claimants with children but no qualifying adult (e.g. spouse/partner) would receive the same rate of payment as a person over 20 i.e. €204.30 plus €26 per child. (There are 79 such cases at present.)
  -Claimants with children and a qualified adult will also receive the same rate of payment as they would if they were over 20 years old – eg full JA rate, full QA rate & qualified child payment. (There are about 200 such cases at present).
• 18 and 19 year olds who qualify for the Jobseeker’s Benefit. Such young people are entitled to JB on the basis of having paid sufficient PRSI contributions (this would be a minority of young jobseekers, most would apply for JA).
• People transferring to Jobseeker’s Allowance immediately after exhausting their entitlement to JB or those transferring from the Disability Allowance directly to JA (thereby avoiding them being faced with a large income drop).
• Where an existing JA claimant under age 20 (being paid €204.30) gets a job and leaves JA but loses that job and ends up back on JA within 12 months, they will get €204.30, rather than €100 a week. If this was not done, there would be little incentive for those currently on JA to take up offers of work.
• Persons leaving HSE Care. The reduced Jobseeker's Allowance payment will not apply to persons leaving the care of the Health Service Executive at age 18 e.g. those in foster homes or HSE care facilities or who were under HSE care within the last 12 months before they reached age 18.

Idbatterim

alot of people are aware of fraudulent social welfare claims, but do you think if there was a financial incentive for people to report, alot more would do so?

thatsa spicy

I have a feeling that the governments' motives are actually to encourage emigration and theyre hoping such a savage cut could go some way towards siphoning off the massive numbers of unemployed college graduates that were pumped out this year and will be next year, by forcing them to leave. Of course they're not going to say that; instead they dress it up and say they're cutting it to incentivise under 24's to "work hard" to find a job. They know there isn't enough jobs for all those graduates in this country.

How mch is this likely to save does anybody know? I know that it's probably a fair bit?

wolfpawnat

gerry28 wrote: »

In the UK its £50 for under 25's and 64 for over 25's per week. In some of the EU countries its a percentage of your salary before you were made redundant.



People who will not be affected by the new rates will prob be the same as that for the 18 and 19 yr olds getting the new €100 rate

• Young people with dependent children.
  -Claimants with children but no qualifying adult (e.g. spouse/partner) would receive the same rate of payment as a person over 20 i.e. €204.30 plus €26 per child. (There are 79 such cases at present.)
  -Claimants with children and a qualified adult will also receive the same rate of payment as they would if they were over 20 years old – eg full JA rate, full QA rate & qualified child payment. (There are about 200 such cases at present).
• 18 and 19 year olds who qualify for the Jobseeker’s Benefit. Such young people are entitled to JB on the basis of having paid sufficient PRSI contributions (this would be a minority of young jobseekers, most would apply for JA).
• People transferring to Jobseeker’s Allowance immediately after exhausting their entitlement to JB or those transferring from the Disability Allowance directly to JA (thereby avoiding them being faced with a large income drop).
• Where an existing JA claimant under age 20 (being paid €204.30) gets a job and leaves JA but loses that job and ends up back on JA within 12 months, they will get €204.30, rather than €100 a week. If this was not done, there would be little incentive for those currently on JA to take up offers of work.
• Persons leaving HSE Care. The reduced Jobseeker's Allowance payment will not apply to persons leaving the care of the Health Service Executive at age 18 e.g. those in foster homes or HSE care facilities or who were under HSE care within the last 12 months before they reached age 18.

So I am 22 with a young child, who's father is currently in full time education and is not able to aid in the financial support of our son in any way, what does that entitle me to?

limericklassy

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am 22 and I have a son and am trying to go back to college. I have no way of living at home and I need my social welfare to tied me over until I get a quailification and become a tax payer again!

With the current rule for under 20's - if you are under 20 and in full time education or have children you will keep the full dole. That i would assume will be the same for BTEA, but if theres any CWO reading this pls inform me if its wrong.

It gets people out to work or do some education. During the good times there was still 150,000 unemployed. Get on to these people as well.

schumacher

Loads of people under 24 have just graduated and cant find work. Surely this will just encourage a system where people just have children to get more dole. You will have people who have children under 24 getting it and people who dont wont. surely the government wants to get away from the type of welfare system that its policies have promoted.