Halve Dole for Under 24s

gaeilgegrinds

You get 70 euro. Whoever said you don't get any financial incentive, you do!

schween

thatsa spicy wrote: »

I have a feeling that the governments' motives are actually to encourage emigration and theyre hoping such a savage cut could go some way towards siphoning off the massive numbers of unemployed college graduates that were pumped out this year and will be next year, by forcing them to leave. Of course they're not going to say that; instead they dress it up and say they're cutting it to incentivise under 24's to "work hard" to find a job. They know there isn't enough jobs for all those graduates in this country.

How mch is this likely to save does anybody know? I know that it's probably a fair bit?

If the govt intentionally cause a brain drain they will be shooting themselves in the foot, so I doubt this is the case. When people leave, it's more often than not for a long time.
I think the only reason they're doing this is simply because they are in the sh!t.
€4bn is a lot of money to save.

Idbatterim

good point about the pubs taking a big hit if this comes through! as will alot of wasteful expenditure!

nouveau_4.0

the_dark_side wrote: »

only the start.... 91000 x 105 = 9555000 x 52 weeks = 496860000

so its still under half a billion. 4.5 billion to go....

So because it'll only save the country half a billion, its not worth doing?

the_dark_side wrote: »

It will mean this, pubs will take a big hit. Im a musician and over one third of the people that are in pubs at the weekend are under 24. This catagory of young people will become the new dependants of the country.

If your on the dole, you shouldn't have massive amounts of money to spend in the pub. If you do, your getting too much.
Wouldn't affect the pubs much at all.

the_dark_side wrote: »

Less u-24 year olds on the road... motoring costs etc. Clothes shops will take a big hit, less people travelling abroad on short breaks. Mobile phone companies will also be affected, unbelievable when you consider that less 4-5 years ago, a 20 year old could make 700-800 euro a week if you had a trade and had your wits about you.

Same as above. The dole is not there to pay your mobile phone bills, holidays ect.

Am I missing something?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

PaulieD

Nody wrote: »

You mean except the part where they have to have paid in their taxes for two years before they can claim it vs. Irish who get it with out working a day in their life, right?

Under this proposal, if an Irish person, who worked for six years in full time employment, lost their job, they would get half the amount of a 25 year old foreigner who worked here for two years. Thats lunacy.

Wagon

This won't act like an incentive. Anyone who thinks it is, is mererly glad that they don't get hit, which i asssume is anyone over 24 by the looks of it (and probably a self centered prick). But because of the inevetable success this will be it will only be extended to older age groups eventually. It won't work.

PaulieD

Wagon wrote: »

This won't act like an incentive. Anyone who thinks it is, is mererly glad that they don't get hit, which i asssume is anyone over 24 by the looks of it (and probably a self centered prick). But because of the inevetable success this will be it will only be extended to older age groups eventually. It won't work.

What happens to those on Jobseekers Benefits, ie those that have paid their fair share into the system? Very unfair to target them when there are plenty of leeches milking the system, 150,000 dolers during the boom. Target them first.

Permabear

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Idbatterim

good point about the 150k on the dole during the boom years! i think there should be 2 rates, on for those that are legitimate or newly unemployed and seeking employment, and one for those that have been living off it for years! halve the rate after 6-9 months tops!

ei.sdraob

Nodin wrote: »

Ooooo...bold and red faces....

What next, if you fall below a certain income you lose the right to vote?

A man buys a house. Through a series of misfortunes, none of which is his fault he loses his job a few years down the line. Why should he not use whatever money he's entitled to to pay off whatever his on-going expenses?

way to try to twist my words :rolleyes:

if he wants to spend his dole paying for mortgage and starve and have no clothes, well thats hes choice

but he shouldnt go asking for more welfare money

its not the job of taxpayers to pay of other peoples mortgages

when he took the mortgage he should have considered the risks, and took out insurance

i swear some of the stuff you read on boards is mindboggling

Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The €8.65 is the minimum for those who are experienced and old enough. THere is a phasing in of the minimum wage based on age and experience.

the_dark_side

donegalfella wrote: »

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I hope your right! So long as the insurance companies dont pass on their loss of revenue to the rest of us... it will also put a hole in the countries road tax fund??

the_dark_side

nouveau_4.0 wrote: »

So because it'll only save the country half a billion, its not worth doing?

If your on the dole, you shouldn't have massive amounts of money to spend in the pub. If you do, your getting too much.
Wouldn't affect the pubs much at all.

Same as above. The dole is not there to pay your mobile phone bills, holidays ect.

Am I missing something?

Do I say it was'nt worth doing? So you dont think it will affect the pubs? I spent a brief while on the dole in 1995, back then in Ireland, a single man on the dole would be regularly in the pub. I know alot of young people that have left Ireland to travel to Thailand for a while, before going on to Australia... all done by signing the dole while living at home and saving up.

murphaph

Wagon wrote: »

This won't act like an incentive. Anyone who thinks it is, is mererly glad that they don't get hit, which i asssume is anyone over 24 by the looks of it (and probably a self centered prick). But because of the inevetable success this will be it will only be extended to older age groups eventually. It won't work.

Of course it'll work. It'll save the exchequer half a billion at the stroke of a pen! If extended to all age groups it'll save well over a billion.

I have to say, I am delighted to hear this because this is an election losing policy and if FF are prepared to make this sort of slash and burn (but sadly necessary) policy, then maybe, just maybe they will be willing to give the entire public sector a 10% across the board paycut.

Everyone seems to agree we need to make horrible cuts but nobody seems to say, "yeah, I'm willing to be affected by them". I think if they cut under 24 dole in half you will se at least 15% cut from all other dole recipients.

ei.sdraob

amacachi wrote: »

Read above again, I'm fine with being affected, as are most people I know, but I'm not OK with being shafted because of politics. That's why they're targetting the young unemployed, politics, nothing to do with it being the fairest or most effective thing to do.

well theres always a silver lining

the young 18-25 for the most part dont bother voting and using their right to vote

this would change things somewhat

amacachi

murphaph wrote: »

Everyone seems to agree we need to make horrible cuts but nobody seems to say, "yeah, I'm willing to be affected by them". I think if they cut under 24 dole in half you will se at least 15% cut from all other dole recipients.

Read above again, I'm fine with being affected, as are most people I know, but I'm not OK with being shafted because of politics. That's why they're targetting the young unemployed, politics, nothing to do with it being the fairest or most effective thing to do.

I'd love if the government were to say right now "Right, we're out in a couple of years, let's make a difference." and cut SW by ~20% and put up income tax by 5-7% straightaway. Maybe then there'd be a chance of coming out the other side of this thing in a position to have a properly functioning economy.

amacachi

ei.sdraob wrote: »

well theres always a silver lining

the young 18-25 for the most part dont bother voting and using their right to vote

this would change things somewhat

Doubt it'll make a massive difference because I can't see anyone offering to overturn it after getting elected, so what incentive would there be to vote? To be honest it'll turn more young people off politics altogether.

gerry28

Isn't there a difference between jobseekers benefit and jobseekers allowance (I'm not sure which is which).

But if a 22yr old has been working for the last 3 or 4 years and has built up enough stamps they should still be entitles to the full 204 per week.

skearon

blindjustice wrote: »

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/mary-hanafin-tells-newstalk-cabinet-considering-halving-dole-payments-for-under-24%E2%80%99s-2/

Excellent idea, welfare was designed to be a safety net, somehow it became an entitlement, and now the chosen way of life for many people!

Idea should be extended to any healthy person on job seekers allowance for more than three years, while at the same time increasing job seekers benefit to 70% of previous years salary and extending it to 2 years

skearon

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

So now we can't even save up to emigrate!!!!

Proper Irish politics, p1ss off the people who are less likely to vote.

So you admit €204 is too high and that you live on less?

skearon

mega man wrote: »

I think a simpler solution would be to stop paying all the immigrants social welfare benefits. why the under 24? why not the over 55? wtf?

Shameful racist comments have no place in a proper debate, most of these immigrants came here to work, at a time when 150,000 Irish welfare leeches 'couldnt' find a job

jape

I think this is a great idea, how could anyone under 24 possibly need €204 a week? All they do is buy beer and ps3 games. I'm not happy with my paye going towards buying other people lavish lifestyles when I can hardly afford those luxuries myself.

ei.sdraob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

he should hand back his key

and claim rent allowance

once again, the dole is not there to pay a mortgage


owning a house is a luxury not a right

:mad:

This makes me LOL!

Rather than helping out someone with a little extra dole to pay their own mortgage. You would rather him get up to €1000 in rent allowance to pay to a property investor landlord.

Right.

Kered75

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the sense of entitlement is just crazy, its this type of selfish attitude that got this country in such a mess

I agree with you on this point but remember that the whole country is at it, from politicans and bankers downwards. Why is it that the lowest paid have to shoulder most the burden.
All you have to do is look and politicans expenses,bankers bonuses and the people who pay little or no tax in this country and start with them.
Unemployment in this country for many is sadly not going to be temporary and huge cuts in benefits will cause poblems which will cost a lot more to put right in years to come.Remember the eighties anyone??

Diarmuid

PaulieD wrote: »

Under this proposal, if an Irish person, who worked for six years in full time employment, lost their job, they would get half the amount of a 25 year old foreigner who worked here for two years. Thats lunacy.

Don't the same rules apply to a 25 year old Irish person?

skearon

wolfpawnat wrote: »

So I am 22 with a young child, who's father is currently in full time education and is not able to aid in the financial support of our son in any way, what does that entitle me to?

Ever heard of personal responsibility? If you can't afford to have children, then don't.

PaulieD

skearon wrote: »

Shameful racist comments have no place in a proper debate, most of these immigrants came here to work, at a time when 150,000 Irish welfare leeches 'couldnt' find a job

Nothing racist about it what so ever. Why should an Irish citizen, who is 23 years of age, who has worked for six years, get half the dole payment of a 24 year old foreigner who only worked here for two years?

PaulieD

Diarmuid wrote: »

Don't the same rules apply to a 25 year old Irish person?

So what? A 23 year old Irish citizen who has worked since they were 17 will receive half the payment that a 24 year old foreigner, who is here for two years would.

Disgraceful.

PaulieD

skearon wrote: »

So you admit €204 is too high and that you live on less?

Nobody would condemn cutting down on the dolers(150,000). My problem is this. The 18-23 year olds on Jobseekers Benefit who have made at least 260 contributions in PRSI. It is very unfair that they are the ones targeted. Should the 18-23 year olds pay half the PRSI amount?

As for Hanafin claiming the Irish youth should be searching harder for employment, I suggest she and her government focus on providing it.