Halve Dole for Under 24s

introspective85

skearon wrote: »

You might as join the march organised by the economic illiterates leading the public service unions.

This country simply cannot continue to borrow €500m a week, we either implement cuts ourselves, or become insolvent and have the IMF do it for us.

Civic spirit and a willingness to take short term cuts for long term is gain is what is needed, not marchs for bankruptcy.

Have you not read my other posts? I'd be all in favour of across the board cuts and a major shake up of the welfare system, Just not before dole cuts targeted at unemployed foreigners with no ties to this country. The same goes for criminal bankers and property developers!!!!!!!!!

We must prioritise the needs of our own people. As for the unemployed foreigners, Let their own countries take care of them.

skearon

introspective85 wrote: »

Racist???? Anyone who uses that term has already lost the debate, how is this person racist by suggesting that non-citizens with no ties to this country should be targeted first in any cuts before irish youth?

Whats wrong with putting our own people first? Im sick and tired of the politically correct thought police smearing people with that meaningless word, "racist". I suppose you're another one of the Yes to lisbon heads,who sold out this nations sovereignty.Traitors dont deserve respect for their opinion!!!!!! :mad:

Also i would like to refer you to my post about 'racism' a few comments up, were i expose the abstractness and meaningless of that term.

I think everyone here can see who has lost the debate.

Picking on a group of people purely because of their race is racism ffs!!

I suggest you vent your anger at the native 150,000 social parasites who refused to work during a sustained period of full employment, and do some research the Irish who travelled the world in search of work for over 150 years

Yes I voted for Lisbon and actively campaigned for a Yes vote, and was delighted to see an over whelming Yes result, proof of pragmatic patriotism in action, with its utter rejection of the economic illiterates in the No camp.

major bill

skearon wrote: »

Sure lets throw out all the foreigners, shall we start with Intel and the other foreign companies who provide 150+K well paid jobs?

Grow up, or go to the UK and join the BNP ffs

just pointing out how much the government are spending on non nationals. ive never once said all foreign nationals should be thrown out.i was simply saying in my fist post that while its ok for the government to discriminate against one group in this country by halving the dole, to do this to encourage all foreigners of all ages on the dole to return home would most likely be seen as RACIST which your comments clearly backs up my post.

while we on the subject of the BNP i suppose you are supportive of the united against facism group and that you condone there disgracefull behaviour of ruining peacefull marches in birmingham and manchester which led to riots.:rolleyes:.

introspective85

skearon wrote: »

I think everyone here can see who has lost the debate.

Picking on a group of people purely because of their race is racism ffs!!

I suggest you vent your anger at the native 150,000 social parasites who refused to work during a sustained period of full employment, and do some research the Irish who travelled the world in search of work for over 150 years

Yes I voted for Lisbon and actively campaigned for a Yes vote, and was delighted to see an over whelming Yes result, proof of pragmatic patriotism in action, with its utter rejection of the economic illiterates in the No camp.

Firstly, i have stated my belief on many occasions that the social welfare system should never have been so generous to begin with. I believe in the long term it should be replaced by a system of workfare placements with private employment agencies and that the department of social welfare should be downsized or eliminated altogether and replaced with a corperative system.
Today most people on the dole have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. In the mean time we should focus the cuts on non-nationals, leaving the irish unemployed till last.

Economic illiterate??? So how does the eu help us economically? Before you go on about the subsidies we have recieved from the eu, what about the fishing and mineral rights we conceeded to the Eu? think about all the potential revenue lost in that industry!!!!! What about the EU agriculture quotas that destroyed farming???
What about the fractional reserve banking system that dishonestly inflates our currency and the taxation that cripples us, just to pay off the interest on our governments ECB loans!!!!!!! I could go on and on..............

The EU is like the person who shoots you in the leg, then gives you a crutch, Proclaiming how 'great' they are.

You are the true economic illiterate, and if thats not bad enough, someone who derives a perverse sense of pride from treachery!!!!!!!!!

bonkey

skearon wrote: »

Grow up, or go to the UK and join the BNP ffs

One warning, folks.

Attack the post, not the poster.

Further comments like this will not be tolerated.

We could live without the inevitable tangent that accusations of racism will lead to.

If you have a problem with a post, then report it.

skearon

major bill wrote: »

just pointing out how much the government are spending on non nationals. ive never once said all foreign nationals should be thrown out.i was simply saying in my fist post that while its ok for the government to discriminate against one group in this country by halving the dole, to do this to encourage all foreigners of all ages on the dole to return home would most likely be seen as RACIST which your comments clearly backs up my post.

The simple fact is that our dole level is far too high when compared to most of Europe, many 'foreigners' (20% of which are from the UK) have worked here and contributed to society.

What the government is spending on non natonals is a fraction if what it has spent on lazy natives who refuse to work.

My understanding is that the proposed change will be under the same terms as for under 20s, i.e. you get the full rate if undergoing training, so no cut.

major bill wrote: »

jwhile we on the subject of the BNP i suppose you are supportive of the united against facism group and that you condone there disgracefull behaviour of ruining peacefull marches in birmingham and manchester which led to riots.:rolleyes:.

Please don't presume to think what I support.

skearon

introspective85 wrote: »

Firstly, i have stated my belief on many occasions that the social welfare system should never have been so generous to begin with.

Totally agree with you there, in fact you may want to research the Hartz system of welfare.

introspective85 wrote: »

Today most people on the dole have lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

I agree

introspective85 wrote: »

In the mean time we should focus the cuts on non-nationals, leaving the irish unemployed till last.

Totally disagree, attacking a group of people based purely on their race is wrong, both morally and economically. Free movement of labour and capital is a cornerstone of the EU, if you object to that then I'm afraid you're 36 years too late.

introspective85 wrote: »

Economic illiterate??? So how does the eu help us economically? Before you go on about the subsidies we have recieved from the eu, what about the fishing and mineral rights we conceeded to the Eu? think about all the potential revenue lost in that industry!!!!! What about the EU agriculture quotas that destroyed farming???
What about the fractional reserve banking system that dishonestly inflates our currency and the taxation that cripples us, just to pay off the interest on our governments ECB loans!!!!!!! I could go on and on..............

We are a small, open economy that exports 80% of everything we produce, that's a fact. FDI has, and will, contribute hugely to our economy. Companies invest in Ireland because of our fully engaged membership of the EU, and the easy access to a market of 500m people.

Compare our economic data for the period up to us joining the EEC (a time when were had no economic sovereignty as the punt was tied to sterling, and 90% our exports went to our former masters, mainly our young people) with the period after (when we obtained true economic independence and sat at the table as equals with our European partners)

introspective85 wrote: »

You are the true economic illiterate, and if thats not bad enough, someone who derives a perverse sense of pride from treachery!!!!!!!!!

With all due respect, the treachery came from the motley crew of economic illiterates and headbangers (Michael O'Leary's accurate words) on th No side who wanted to lead Ireland down the road to ruin.

Anyway, Ireland has overwhelming ratified the Lisbon Treaty so whats the point of moaning about something you cant change?

aligator_am

Idbatterim wrote: »

alot of people are aware of fraudulent social welfare claims, but do you think if there was a financial incentive for people to report, alot more would do so?

I'm pretty sure that this used to be the case as I remember a guy that lived on my road getting reported for doing nixers on cars while getting the dole (this was years ago, so it's possible the rules have changed now) but the blade swings both ways, seemingly you were entitled to get the name of the person that reported you.

Also, from what I can remember, the bounty for reporting someone was £50, but as I say, this was way back in the mid 90's.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

irish_bob

aligator_am wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that this used to be the case as I remember a guy that lived on my road getting reported for doing nixers on cars while getting the dole (this was years ago, so it's possible the rules have changed now) but the blade swings both ways, seemingly you were entitled to get the name of the person that reported you.

Also, from what I can remember, the bounty for reporting someone was £50, but as I say, this was way back in the mid 90's.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

ratting on someone even they are doing wrong is frowned upon in ireland , much more so than merley fraudelently drawing the dole , i personally would be slow to report a dole cheat if i knew they would know who shopped them

skearon

irish_bob wrote: »

ratting on someone even they are doing wrong is frowned upon in ireland , much more so than merley fraudelently drawing the dole , i personally would be slow to report a dole cheat if i knew they would know who shopped them

Fraud is fraud, so report it.

From welfare.ie:

The Central Control Section of the Department of Social and Family Affairs accepts reports of possible fraud offered by members of the public in relation to the Department’s schemes.

Reports are accepted by email, phone or in writing. All reports are dealt with in confidence. A member of the public may give details anonymously.

Contact Details:

By email: central.control@welfare.ie

By phone: (01) 704 3000, ask for Central Control Section,

By Post: Central Control Division, Shannon Lodge, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim

cleveroli

Any one wondering why Mary Harney thought it necessary to bring in 150,000 foreign workers to Ireland when we had 150,000 on the dole at the time (and these were the good old days!!:rolleyes:) if your going to cut anyones dole then cut the dole of these spongers who couldnt even get a job when lads were coming over from Poland with no English and could walk into jobs!!!:mad: Wasnt her husband on the Fas board at the time (cough cough) and also in IBEC??? Ill tell you why you see non nationals in all the fast food , cafes shops hotels etc. They'll work every hour their given will work without breaks etc. why because the min. wage in Poland is 200 euro a month!!!! So even if they lose their jobs their still 600 euro better off than going home. Cant say I blame them sure didnt the Irish screw the british SW system!!!!!! Although in fairness the brits probably had more money to be screwed out of than we do!!!! Also for skearon
just to let you know that your vote of yes will now allow 75 million turks
to join the EU and by the way you dont have to work in Ireland for 2 yrs b4 you get the dole... once you have 2yrs in any EU country then that
entitles you to dole here

skearon

cleveroli wrote: »

Any one wondering why Mary Harney thought it necessary to bring in 150,000 foreign workers to Ireland when we had 150,000 on the dole at the time (and these were the good old days!!:rolleyes:) if your going to cut anyones dole then cut the dole of these spongers who couldnt even get a job when lads were coming over from Poland with no English and could walk into jobs!!!:mad: Wasnt her husband on the Fas board at the time (cough cough) and also in IBEC??? Ill tell you why you see non nationals in all the fast food , cafes shops hotels etc. They'll work every hour their given will work without breaks etc. why because the min. wage in Poland is 200 euro a month!!!! So even if they lose their jobs their still 600 euro better off than going home. Cant say I blame them sure didnt the Irish screw the british SW system!!!!!! Although in fairness the brits probably had more money to be screwed out of than we do!!!! Also for skearon
just to let you know that your vote of yes will now allow 75 million turks
to join the EU and by the way you dont have to work in Ireland for 2 yrs b4 you get the dole... once you have 2yrs in any EU country then that
entitles you to dole here

It was nothing to do with Harney, free movement of labour and capital has been there since 1973. What is ::mad:: is the fact we had 150,000 native Irish too lazy to find work during a period of full employment. The economy would have ground to a halt if it had not been for immigration. Personally I have respect for anyone, regardless of race, who works; and none, again regardless of race, who refuses to work.

Its a good thing other countries who accepted your fellow Irish citizen for the past 150+ years, didnt share your views on people of different race.

Fact - all countries have to unanimously agree to Turkey's entry, the ratification of Lisbon doesnt change that fact.

Fact - to qualify for a social assistance payment you must be habitually resident in Ireland.

Perhaps do some research first to learn the real facts before you post further incorrect information

ei.sdraob

Is very sad

to see a new user pop in and hijack the thread by dragging immigration into this (never mind the fact that more people are leaving country than coming in)

i have every respect for immigrants who came into this country and took the ****ty jobs that were "above" the locals (yes i did work in catering at one stage and i know all about this attitude)

if they worked for several years and got stamps they deserve welfare if made unemployed

same with any u24 who also worked for several years


but them celtic tiger cubs who think they are "entitled" to free money to fuel their drinking/drug/vroom vroom car habits (we all know who im talking about) should be ashamed of themselves

means testing is proposed in this thread as a solution, and i agree


but that means more work for the public sector, and we all know how much "they" like work it would probably result in more strikes

cleveroli

Maybe if you read what I posted you would see that Im actually agreeing with you (may God have mercy on my soul!) about those lazy ars*hol*s who couldnt be bothered getting off the SW when we had the boom years -

As for getting your facts right are you seriously under the illusion that Irish workers were welcomed in the UK and the USA ??? Did you never hear of the old saying ' no blacks, no dogs, no Irish?????

And who are you to presume what my opinions are of people of 'a different
race' it is you who is highlighting that they are different, I have great respect for the fact that they are willing to leave their families and work away from home like the Irish used to do, and probably will have to do again the way this country is going.

ei.sdraob

just in case theres any confusion @cleveroli

i wasnt referring to you

its the O'Morris #2 new user who posted earlier

cleveroli

ei.sdraob wrote: »

just in case theres any confusion @cleveroli

i wasnt referring to you

its the O'Morris #2 new user who posted earlier

No problem!!! I sense your frustration!!! Like I said, if they have to cut dole then cut the dole of the spongers who wudnt get jobs when they were everywhere not the poor feckers who have now lost their jobs.

Respect!:D

kilkenny_kid

For the 150.000 people who did not have jobs during the boom. Im sure there was reasons for that and I know for a fact that one of them, who is my father (Who fell off a two storey building and smashed his vertebrae) is not lazy. Granted there might have people who did not bother having a job but it does not give you a right to call people lazy when you don't know the whole fact.

Front

ei.sdraob wrote: »

he should hand back his key

and claim rent allowance

once again, the dole is not there to pay a mortgage


owning a house is a luxury not a right

:mad:

Jesus Christ.....

So he should hand in his key... the bank sell the house for a song and he will owe them for the rest of his days for the balance of the mortgage.

The point he is making is that under 24s are being targetted because generally they are not married, do not have kids, do not own a house etc.

So for example a 23 with a mortgage loses his job, earns half dole simply because he is young, while a 26 year old who lives at home and has never worked a day in his life gets full dole simply because he is 26.... and if he moves out he will then get rent allowance aswell.

Its almost like they're trying to get a generation to emigrate again.

thebman

Front wrote: »

Jesus Christ.....

So he should hand in his key... the bank sell the house for a song and he will owe them for the rest of his days for the balance of the mortgage.

The point he is making is that under 24s are being targetted because generally they are not married, do not have kids, do not own a house etc.

So for example a 23 with a mortgage loses his job, earns half dole simply because he is young, while a 26 year old who lives at home and has never worked a day in his life gets full dole simply because he is 26.... and if he moves out he will then get rent allowance aswell.

Its almost like they're trying to get a generation to emigrate again.

I'd say it would be more accurate to say they want them to enter training/education (also removes them from live register).

ei.sdraob

Front wrote: »

Jesus Christ.....

So he should hand in his key... the bank sell the house for a song and he will owe them for the rest of his days for the balance of the mortgage.

The point he is making is that under 24s are being targetted because generally they are not married, do not have kids, do not own a house etc.

So for example a 23 with a mortgage loses his job, earns half dole simply because he is young, while a 26 year old who lives at home and has never worked a day in his life gets full dole simply because he is 26.... and if he moves out he will then get rent allowance aswell.

Its almost like they're trying to get a generation to emigrate again.

heres a new word for you

bankruptcy

cleveroli

kilkenny_kid wrote: »

For the 150.000 people who did not have jobs during the boom. Im sure there was reasons for that and I know for a fact that one of them, who is my father (Who fell off a two storey building and smashed his vertebrae) is not lazy. Granted there might have people who did not bother having a job but it does not give you a right to call people lazy when you don't know the whole fact.

I assume your father (and I hope he's recovered ) was on disability, not the dole? Your right I dont know all 150,000 I am only going on the work shy here in my town who went from the post office to the bookies - filled the pubs and the only morning they got out of bed early was signing on day - and im sure our town wasnt the only one with these feckers - I was told I was a fool to be workin' if I was on the dole I would have had the rent allowance/medical card/family suppliment etc. Hand on heart I know men who have never worked a day in their lives and what do you think their sons are doing now???:rolleyes::rolleyes: Maybe cutting the dole for u25's mite break that cycle - but I do feel for the genuine u25's who have lost their jobs or are really tryin to get one

cleveroli

Front wrote: »

Jesus Christ.....



Its almost like they're trying to get a generation to emigrate again.

its the only way they are going to make the unemployed stats look good!

They sure aint tryin to bring in any jobs -

If the gov were any good they wud have gon to all the companies pulling out of ireland to go to cheaper labour economies and said look we'll subsidise your wage bill by 200 euro a worker - they have to give it now anyway - plus what they have to give out in stat. redundancy payments

irish_bob

cleveroli wrote: »

I assume your father (and I hope he's recovered ) was on disability, not the dole? Your right I dont know all 150,000 I am only going on the work shy here in my town who went from the post office to the bookies - filled the pubs and the only morning they got out of bed early was signing on day - and im sure our town wasnt the only one with these feckers - I was told I was a fool to be workin' if I was on the dole I would have had the rent allowance/medical card/family suppliment etc. Hand on heart I know men who have never worked a day in their lives and what do you think their sons are doing now???:rolleyes::rolleyes: Maybe cutting the dole for u25's mite break that cycle - but I do feel for the genuine u25's who have lost their jobs or are really tryin to get one

an overly generous wellfare state is an enemy of the people , it robs people of the incentive to better themselves through personal endeavour and self reliance and denys them the chance to develop a solid work ethic , this in turn results in large sections of the community growing up with no respect for the value of money which breeds dysfunctionality in a wide range of areas

ei.sdraob

irish_bob wrote: »

an overly generous wellfare state is an enemy of the people , it robs people of the incentive to better themselves through personal endeavour and self reliance and denys them the chance to develop a solid work ethic , this in turn results in large sections of the community growing up with no respect for the value of money which breeds dysfunctionality in a wide range of areas

this is how history will record the last decade in Ireland....

kilkenny_kid

cleveroli wrote: »

I assume your father (and I hope he's recovered ) was on disability, not the dole? Your right I dont know all 150,000 I am only going on the work shy here in my town who went from the post office to the bookies - filled the pubs and the only morning they got out of bed early was signing on day - and im sure our town wasnt the only one with these feckers - I was told I was a fool to be workin' if I was on the dole I would have had the rent allowance/medical card/family suppliment etc. Hand on heart I know men who have never worked a day in their lives and what do you think their sons are doing now???:rolleyes::rolleyes: Maybe cutting the dole for u25's mite break that cycle - but I do feel for the genuine u25's who have lost their jobs or are really tryin to get one

Well he had a chance to have an operation on his back. But he would not go ahead, more likely to have end up in the wheelchair. Woulda killed him really, to be stuck doing nothing. Was ten years ago. He would not accept benefits etc, did not want to be a charity case so we relied on savings for awhile till he won his compensation from his boss. Im deaf so i was entitled to Disability Allowance. He stopped me from getting it, suppose he was right though.

Shea O'Meara

ei.sdraob wrote: »

owning a house is a luxury not a right

Owning a house is a right. Because our current socio-economic system is designed to let a few make a profit from the fact that others cannot afford to purchase, makes buying a home luxury. You should be able to call your four walls your own. Driving up house prices, putting homes beyond the reach of everyday people, selling publicly owned land to developers at a steal, cutting back on the building of new local authority housing for a botched partnership with a developer who promises to make 10% affordable....these things make it a luxury to own a home but don't make wrong to want to.

irish_bob wrote: »

an overly generous wellfare state is an enemy of the people , it robs people of the incentive to better themselves through personal endeavour and self reliance and denys them the chance to develop a solid work ethic , this in turn results in large sections of the community growing up with no respect for the value of money which breeds dysfunctionality in a wide range of areas

Complete nonsense. Very right wing of you. Have you been on welfare? Did you grow up with kids in your neighborhood depending on charity for clothing? Surviving, just getting by will certainly teach anyone about the value of money. Who has a more solid work ethic; a person who had to leave school early to work in a minimum wage job, possibly getting a management position at some point or a person who never had to rely on welfare in any shape or form, never had to go without?
Welfare is designed to help people get by, give them a leg up. Yes it's open to abuse, as is our banking system and every other aspect of our society. Curtail welfare to give people a value for money? We could say the same for Politicians salaries and the need for bailouts for banks. These are your large sections of society suffering from forms of dysfunction, having no concept of a solid work ethic.
I can think of no better incentive to endeavor to better ones self, or creating a need for self reliance than having little money to support either yourself or your family.
Look past the end of your own street.

ntlbell

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am a non-smoker and I rarely if ever even go to a pub, and even more seldomly drink! But having a child really drains on the dole. Also I do get rent allowance I will admit it, and I still pay €50 of my dole towards my rent each week, (thankfully not too bad), but I also have loans to pay off and bills to pay.

I am trying to find work, and I would take almost anything that came my way at this time (the only jobs I wouldnt take are things like a late night bar jobs, as the creches are not open at the times I would need them).

If you were as tight as a ducks arse, you could be wealthy, but as much as I try to be tight, I can't save more than a tenner a week into mine and my sons credit union accounts.

with the way rent is declining and the amount of available rental accommodation now accepting social more than ever is increasing all the time.

it could be something to look at saving you another 200e a month.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to suggest living on social is a picnic especially when one has kids and in no way trying to belittle your situation.

I'm not sure if i made it clear in my post but i was referring to single/childless folk of around the age of the thread starter.

But i wish you well in the job hunt

dudara

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Owning a house is a right.

This is a myth. Having a roof over your head is a right. Owning a house is a choice.

The concept that owning a house is a right is partially to blame for the mess that lots of people finding themselves in.

Shea O'Meara

dudara wrote: »

This is a myth. Having a roof over your head is a right. Owning a house is a choice.

The concept that owning a house is a right is partially to blame for the mess that lots of people finding themselves in.

Not sure how an opinion is a myth. The idea of someone owning your family home, be it the bank or a landlord is a little off to say the least.

skearon

kilkenny_kid wrote: »

For the 150.000 people who did not have jobs during the boom. Im sure there was reasons for that and I know for a fact that one of them, who is my father (Who fell off a two storey building and smashed his vertebrae) is not lazy. Granted there might have people who did not bother having a job but it does not give you a right to call people lazy when you don't know the whole fact.

If my earlier posts weren't clear - I was referring solely to fit and healthy people, plus people on sickness benefit are not in receipt of jobseekers allowance.