Unemployed & Private Sector Union

joblessrprivate · 22-10-2009 11:04pm #1

Since this looks like where were headed for one reason or another would anyone out there unemployed or in the private sector be interested in starting a union...

Theres 2-2.25 million of people in this bracket yet we have David Begg and "I'm alright" Jack O' Connor dictating economic policy to our sovereign Irish Government.

This isnt a proposed "public sector bashing" union but my thoughts are if they represent 317,000 people and they get to have biffo on speed dial why should the rest of the country be ignored.

The general trust of this would be a union to represent the unemployed and private sector workers who are voiceless at the moment and vision wise to have some input as to how the taxes of the private sector and unemployed(let us not forget the VAT). An independent watchdog for these groups. Are we getting value for money etc.?ESB and other semistate bodies..

I feel sorry for those in the public sector with huge mortgages and reducing pay but unfortonutately a huge percentage of us bought berties bullsh*t and everybody is going to have to be involved in the clean up. Market forces dictate how severe this is on us .... However in the public service it depends how good your representation is....

I'm not trying to be the man to lead this , I don't desire power , I'm just pissed off watching this country go down the ****ter

PM me with email addresses and anyone with experience of setting up a union would be helpful

Supporters and Leaders wanted

johnnyskeleton · 22-10-2009 11:11pm

There are already a number of representative groups for unemployed persons, but serious, how do unemployed people go on strike?

The solution is not to have more strikes and social unrest. Less strikes and social unrest is not the solution either, but it doesn't make things any worse.

Also, as a worker I would feel that a group that represents me would of necessity have a conflict of interest if it also represented people who wanted to take more money off me to pay for their scratcher.

lmimmfn · 22-10-2009 11:18pm

Oh FFS :rolleyes:

joblessrprivate wrote: »

and everybody is going to have to be involved in the clean up. Market forces dictate how severe this is on us .... However in the public service it depends how good your representation is....

last i checked doleheads while on the dole dont contribute to anything and are a burden on society( not knocking those who've become unempleyed recently but social welfare is a burden no matter how its looked at, its still needed of course ), but cmon lol, doleheads are involved in this clean up????????, please please tell me HOW?

The dole is too bloody high, live with it otherwise feck off to northern ireland and enjoy their £60 dole.

RCIRL · 23-10-2009 4:01am

lmimmfn wrote: »

Oh FFS :rolleyes:

last i checked doleheads while on the dole dont contribute to anything and are a burden on society( not knocking those who've become unempleyed recently but social welfare is a burden no matter how its looked at, its still needed of course ), but cmon lol, doleheads are involved in this clean up????????, please please tell me HOW?

The dole is too bloody high, live with it otherwise feck off to northern ireland and enjoy their £60 dole.

1. People who pay tax with wages in Ireland are not the sole "contributors". Everybody including "dole heads" contribute. If you live in Ireland and spend money in Ireland you contribute to the system.

2. People who you brand "dole heads" have payed into Pay Related Social Insurance while working, when they find themselves out of work they are simply receiving a payment which they are entitled too.

3. Calling the social welfare a burden is extremely disrespectful to those on social welfare including, unemployed people, people with sicknesses and disability's, underprivileged and deprived people, parents and children.

4. The dole is means tested, based the cost of living in Ireland. It is means tested giving the recipient enough resources to be fed and housed. The cost of living in the north is lower and they have a wide range of other benefits available included with the "£60" dole you have stated.

lmimmfn · 23-10-2009 4:04am

RCIRL wrote: »

1. People who pay tax with wages in Ireland are not the sole "contributors". Everybody including "dole heads" contribute. If you live in Ireland and spend money in Ireland you contribute to the system.

2. People who you brand "dole heads" have payed into Pay Related Social Insurance while working, when they find themselves out of work they are simply receiving a payment which they are entitled too.

3. Calling the social welfare a burden is extremely disrespectful to those on social welfare including, unemployed people, people with sicknesses and disability's, underprivileged and deprived people, parents and children.

4. The dole is means tested, based the cost of living in Ireland. It is means tested giving the recipient enough resources to be fed and housed. The cost of living in the north is lower and they have a wide range of other benefits available included with the "£60" dole you have stated.

I think you missed making bold the part where i said "while on the dole....."

RCIRL · 23-10-2009 4:19am

lmimmfn wrote: »

I think you missed making bold the part where i said "while on the dole....."

I didn't miss out on anything, how does "while on the dole" make your post any better? Your post is a disgrace and a direct insult to everyone associated with social welfare. I don't think you fully understand the social welfare system, as your making it out to be a place where lazy dead beats go to receive handouts. Expect to receive some harsh criticism towards your post over the coming days.

lmimmfn · 23-10-2009 4:28am

RCIRL wrote: »

I didn't miss out on anything, how does "while on the dole" make your post any better? Your post is a disgrace and a direct insult to everyone associated with social welfare. I don't think you fully understand the social welfare system, as your making it out to be a place where lazy dead beats go to receive handouts. Expect to receive some harsh criticism towards your post over the coming days.

It completely changes the context of absolutely everything i said.
I said( AND WHILE CLAIMING DOLE )
- doleheads are a burden on society
- doleheads do not contribute to society, whatever money they spend in the economy is money collected from taxes that those of us who pay taxes wouldnt have to pay and therefore would spend anyway.
- how the feck in gods name are doleheads contributing in any way whatsoever to the mess that has been created( whether thats those unfortunate individuals who have been made unemployed recently or those scroungers on it for years with no intention of ever working ). Honestly if you think they do other than spending the free money( and in a lot of cases deserved money ) then please let me know, honestly if im missing anything whatsoever please point it out.
- the dole is too high, its unsustainable, end of story, cost of living has reduced so should social welfare.

What you said above regarding those sick or with disabilities is completely uncalled for, that is NOT dole, that is sick pay or termed 'on the sick'

On the parent/child issue, tell that to all those on the dole( and i know a few personally ) getting 700euro with 3 kids getting a week with childrens allowance + rent allowance + 2x doles

Oh its quite easy to pull all the heart strings and those living on the edge, theyre in the minority and loads are raping the system. Its costing far too much and the proposed decreases are in line with deflation. There will be feck all impact.

RCIRL · 23-10-2009 4:32am

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There are already a number of representative groups for unemployed persons, but serious, how do unemployed people go on strike?

The solution is not to have more strikes and social unrest. Less strikes and social unrest is not the solution either, but it doesn't make things any worse.

Also, as a worker I would feel that a group that represents me would of necessity have a conflict of interest if it also represented people who wanted to take more money off me to pay for their scratcher.

I am sorry mate but you have to get this idea out of your head.

When you are working you pay PRSI, so when you find your self out of work all you are doing is claiming back from your PRSI.

I believe the only way to end all this bickering between the Government, Banks, NAMA, FAS, HSE, PS Workers etc is for all unemployed and Private Sector workers to get together and them all to stop bickering. This bickering is holding up the whole show and it has to come to an end. It will continue for God knows how long and a stop to it is seriously required.

With over 450.000 people along with the Private sector workers, this is Irelands strongest voice and if it says stop, the bickering will stop.

RCIRL · 23-10-2009 4:40am

lmimmfn wrote: »

It completely changes the context of absolutely everything i said.
I said( AND WHILE CLAIMING DOLE )
- doleheads are a burden on society
- doleheads do not contribute to society, whatever money they spend in the economy is money collected from taxes that those of us who pay taxes wouldnt have to pay and therefore would spend anyway.
- how the feck in gods name are doleheads contributing in any way whatsoever to the mess that has been created( whether thats those unfortunate individuals who have been made unemployed recently or those scroungers on it for years with no intention of ever working ). Honestly if you think they do other than spending the free money( and in a lot of cases deserved money ) then please let me know, honestly if im missing anything whatsoever please point it out.
- the dole is too high, its unsustainable, end of story, cost of living has reduced so should social welfare.

What you said above regarding those sick or with disabilities is completely uncalled for, that is NOT dole, that is sick pay or termed 'on the sick'

On the parent/child issue, tell that to all those on the dole( and i know a few personally ) getting 700euro with 3 kids getting a week with childrens allowance + rent allowance + 2x doles

Oh its quite easy to pull all the heart strings and those living on the edge, theyre in the minority and loads are raping the system. Its costing far too much and the proposed decreases are in line with deflation. There will be feck all impact.

1. Do a net search and type in PRSI, you clearly don't understand the concept of "Pay Related Social Insurance".

2. EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN IRELAND AND SPENDS MONEY IN IRELAND CONTRIBUTES TO THE SYSTEM.

The rest of your post is random gibberish.

lmimmfn · 23-10-2009 4:57am

RCIRL wrote: »

1. Do a net search and type in PRSI, you clearly don't understand the concept of "Pay Related Social Insurance".

2. EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN IRELAND AND SPENDS MONEY IN IRELAND CONTRIBUTES TO THE SYSTEM.

The rest of your post is random gibberish.

lol, youre kidding right?
RTFM what dont you understand about WHILE ON THE DOLE??????????????????????????

last i checked while claiming dole you done pay PRSI?, lol, has that changed?

EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN IRELAND EVEN IF THEIR MONEY IS MONEY OTHERS PAID FOR THEM IS A CONTRIBUTER????????
well last i checked i could keep my money and contribute it myself and be much better off, thank you very much.

Again forget the gibberish and just maybe at least try and read my posts if youre at least going to attempt to comment on them lol

RCIRL · 23-10-2009 5:54am

lmimmfn wrote: »

lol, youre kidding right?
RTFM what dont you understand about WHILE ON THE DOLE??????????????????????????

last i checked while claiming dole you done pay PRSI?, lol, has that changed?

EVERYONE WHO LIVES IN IRELAND EVEN IF THEIR MONEY IS MONEY OTHERS PAID FOR THEM IS A CONTRIBUTER????????
well last i checked i could keep my money and contribute it myself and be much better off, thank you very much.

Again forget the gibberish and just maybe at least try and read my posts if youre at least going to attempt to comment on them lol

It sounds to me like your not even from Ireland, and you've based your social welfare terminology on peoples slang words?

When you say "dole" this "dole" word covers many different social welfare recipitants. You are not stating which type of welfare recipient you are talking about, eg JSA, JSB and so on.

You mention "social welfare is a burden" this is stating everyone associated with reciving social welfare payments is a burden. That is an insult.

Yes EVERYBODY WHO LIVES IN IRELAND AND SPENDS MONEY IN IRELAND CONTRIBUTES TO THE SYSTEM. No matter where the money comes from if they don't spend it the system will loose it. You have this idea that tax payers give social welfare people money and when its spent its not contributing, what happens when this money is spent in the north?
The money is gone! NO LONGER IN THE SYSTEM. End of argument.

I have read all your posts, word for word. Most of them go in to a rant of gibberish which does not relate to what I am talking about so I am not wasting my time.

And no I haven't a clue what you mean by saying "while on the dole" a person is either on the "dole" or not on the "dole". Their is no such thing as "while on the dole".

I would be very surprised to find you are Irish, you seem to be very confused about the Irish social welfare system.

joblessrprivate · 23-10-2009 10:59am

As pointed out by RCIRL you clearly don't understand the concept of PRSI, many of my friends have worked and contributed tax since they left school and contributed handsomely to the coffers of the state during that time .... Are these the dolehead non-contributing members of society you speak of....

I hope unemployment never darkens your door or you'll have a serious identity crisis , one day your judging all the "non-contributing" doleheads and then your one yourself

Barring your in a fulltime permanent non sackable position it would be foolish to think this might never be you....

Google PRSI and grow up

joblessrprivate · 23-10-2009 11:08am

More private sector contributors would be helpful here.....

You need to find your voice or this lot will sleepwalk us into a depression
I know some private sector workers are restricted in joining a union per say but i'm sure there are ways around this.....

Representation is what i'm talking about ...A movement which represents the people outside the public sector..

If you think this is futile look at the commotion the taxi drivers caused with barely 100 people...

If Jack O' Connor and David Begg and their vested interest group want to hold the country to ransom , the rest of us can make some noise....

I know that disruption of this kind isn't good for the economy but it's down and dirty now and we either get in there and fight back and protect our interests or they sure as hell will look after theirs

ei.sdraob · 23-10-2009 11:10am

private sector union?

daftest most ridiculous thing i heard all day

joblessrprivate · 23-10-2009 11:41am

The Public Sector Unions ,representing around 317,000, will dictate economic policy to the rest of the country...

Social welfare payments from the poorest and most in need of help at the moment will be cut

Services for children will be cut to pay the pensions of failures like Roddy Molloy and Patrick Neary

What is daft?

Out with the old thinking , some radical thinking and movement

I have no gripes with the struggling Public sector worker who had to buy an overpriced dwelling because they were fooled into thinking they would be living with Mam and Dad for the next 30 years

I feel their pain and empathise with them but those at the top of the public sector have to face massive wage reductions....

The Unions roll out the battered nurse and gaurd to emotionally blackmail us.. I'm not after cuts in their wages... but the lads on 100K plus for jobs with no accountability or responsiblility

40% cuts and the alike

Long Onion · 23-10-2009 11:43am

Dear Minister,

We represent the totality of the social welfare recipients in the country and are growing increasingly alarmed at reports which suggest cuts and/or freezes to social welfare.

We are advising you in the run up to the budget that we have a mandate from our members to protect present rates and benefits. Any attempt to worsen either of these will result in all of our members immediately signing off the dole and refusing to accept any benefits at all.

We will not back down on this matter and will follow it through to the last.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob · 23-10-2009 11:45am

joblessrprivate wrote: »

The Public Sector Unions ,representing around 317,000, will dictate economic policy to the rest of the country...

Social welfare payments from the poorest and most in need of help at the moment will be cut

Services for children will be cut to pay the pensions of failures like Roddy Molloy and Patrick Neary

What is daft?

Out with the old thinking , some radical thinking and movement

I have no gripes with the struggling Public sector worker who had to buy an overpriced dwelling because they were fooled into thinking they would be living with Mam and Dad for the next 30 years

I feel their pain and empathise with them but those at the top of the public sector have to face massive wage reductions....

The Unions roll out the battered nurse and gaurd to emotionally blackmail us.. I'm not after cuts in their wages... but the lads on 100K plus for jobs with no accountability or responsiblility

40% cuts and the alike

so you want to form an opposition organisation to the public sector unions?

vandermeyde · 23-10-2009 12:12pm

You do realise that Jack O'Connor represents SIPTU, with a membership of roughly 200,000 the majority of whom are employed in the private sector?

thebman · 23-10-2009 12:20pm

vandermeyde wrote: »

You do realise that Jack O'Connor represents SIPTU, with a membership of roughly 200,000 the majority of whom are employed in the private sector?

He's sure as hell not acting like it.

vandermeyde · 23-10-2009 12:34pm

thebman wrote: »

He's sure as hell not acting like it.

Well I suppose thats up to the membership to decide although I have heard murmerings that the rank and file membership are not too pleased with their commanders who are at the top table.

I just think it's funny that approximately 1 million union members of whom roughly one third are "public sector" are all being lumped into the same bracket.

Certain unions, ASTI, IMO etc. by their very nature are predominantly public sector but the IBOA, IMPACT, SIPTU etc. are not.

Being in a Union != Working in the Public Sector!

johnnyskeleton · 23-10-2009 10:52pm

RCIRL wrote: »

1. People who pay tax with wages in Ireland are not the sole "contributors". Everybody including "dole heads" contribute. If you live in Ireland and spend money in Ireland you contribute to the system.

While I accept your points about people being on social welfare having paid PRSI while working, or those who are on disability etc, can you explain how someone on social welfare contributes to the system?

johnnyskeleton · 23-10-2009 10:58pm

RCIRL wrote: »

I am sorry mate but you have to get this idea out of your head.

When you are working you pay PRSI, so when you find your self out of work all you are doing is claiming back from your PRSI.

Meanwhile the person who was working and is still working is still paying PRSI and not claiming social welfare, so is contributing to the social welfare burden of the state. Also, jobseekers benefit lasts for 6 months, after that it's the allowance which is not based on contributions.

And to add icing on the cake, if you're self employed, sure you have to pay PRSI, but if you lose your job, do you get benefits? Not bloodly likely.

But spin it any way you like, the cost of the social welfare bill is too high for the relatively low tax take that we have at the moment.

johnnyskeleton · 23-10-2009 11:05pm

joblessrprivate wrote: »

As pointed out by RCIRL you clearly don't understand the concept of PRSI, many of my friends have worked and contributed tax since they left school and contributed handsomely to the coffers of the state during that time .... Are these the dolehead non-contributing members of society you speak of....

That's a dangerous way of thinking at the moment - developers are currently saying to the government "look at all the money we gave to you in the form of direct taxes, stamp duty etc, now it's time to pay us back." Just because you have paid tax in the past does not mean you are entitled to claim it back at a later stage. Again, if you are public sector or self employed, you will have paid PRSI (at a lower rate granted) and can get nothing back from it.

joblessrprivate wrote: »

I hope unemployment never darkens your door or you'll have a serious identity crisis , one day your judging all the "non-contributing" doleheads and then your one yourself

I think people are entitled to have opinions on this issue irrespective of what their current employment status is.

Unemployed & Private Sector Union

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