The Public Sector is sick

S.L.F

jimmmy wrote: »

Other surveys are consistent with it. The ESRI are public servants : you do not give them credit for doing a proper job ?

I had a good look at the ESRI website.

Don't see anything about them being any part of the public service.

You wouldn't happen to be wrong yet again would you?

TCP/IP_King

jimmmy wrote: »

but you ignore the point : "They are so cocky they march even though they have the highest average public service pay in the known world."

Jem, if you quote it twice in 20 minutes, well, I have to accuse you of trolling.

We both know the public service are the Queens Gambit in all of this. The next move by white is the "Frontline" alliance, possibly NF3, black moves with more sputtering from Leinster House/IBEC, NF6, the November 24th move by white, Nc3, will be answered by God knows what because nobody in this has thought more than three moves ahead.

givyjoe81

S.L.F wrote: »

It can't be the single most ridiculous there must be other ones...



A highly educated workforce...

Im astounded really i am...No it most definitely IS the most ridiculous statement i have read, i mean that statement is categorically wrong, full stop. Please explain yourself properly, i think outlandish statements like that have to be backed up with some sort of logic. PS people on here are constantly giving out about Jimmy for exactly the same sort of thing and I bet you are one of them, so pretty please explain it, I bet my life on it you cant.

A highly educated workforce? Should i guess what you actually mean by that?? Do you mean Multinationals set up here as we have a such an educated workforce? Well yes that would certainly be part of it, but back in the day, before free fees that would only have been part of any decision for FDI, tax breaks as we know were a huge part of it, as were lower wages. The latter being the exact reason why Multinationals are beginning to move the lesser skilled jobs elsewhere, educated countries with lower wages (and other overheads)

S.L.F wrote: »

I had a good look at the ESRI website.

Don't see anything about them being any part of the public service.

You wouldn't happen to be wrong yet again would you?

http://www.esri.ie/faqs/

Actually states on their FAQ's that they are not a semi-state body but actually an indepedant research body, the fact they dont close for lunch is a dead give away too:p

S.L.F

givyjoe81 wrote: »

PS people on here are constantly giving out about Jimmy for exactly the same sort of thing and I bet you are one of them, I bet my life on it.

I even highlighted the relevant bit for you

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62881876&postcount=196

S.L.F

givyjoe81 wrote: »

http://www.esri.ie/faqs/

Actually states on their FAQ's that they are not a semi-state body but actually an indepedant research body, the fact they dont close for lunch is a dead give away too:p

Are you saying I'm correct and Jimmmy is wrong (again)?

givyjoe81

S.L.F wrote: »

Are you saying I'm correct and Jimmmy is wrong (again)?

So you're not in the PS, well could be forgiven for thinking so in fairness. Im not scapegoating anyone, no media campaign, government or other source has persuaded me to 'take sides', iv made most of my comments based on cold hard numbers, we dont have enough money to pay PS wages, but we still need (most of) the same levels of staffing, so what to do eh.. pay cuts perhaps?

I notice you still havent tried to explain your statement on not being able to compare Irish wages with other countries, care to try take a bash on that or would you concede that you were wrong on that? Im sure Jimmy would do the same (No offence intended! Merely just trying to say im sure he's a reasonable guy! In case the mods think im making a personal attack!)

Also, if you did take a look at the ESRI website and their staff, you will have noticed how extremely well educated and experienced they are for the purposes of research, in a nutshell, how in the flying fook can you 'not give much credit' (not a direct quote from yourself, but im sure you recall the post im referring to) to their reports on PS wages?? Please do justify that opinion again please. I highlighted in that post earlier that they are not a state body and ARE an independant research body.

ghost_ie

OMD wrote: »

Well nurses, gardai and teachers are overpaid. What professions do you feel are not overpaid?

Nurses, radiographers, physiotherapists, members of the Fire and Ambulance Service

SkepticOne

S.L.F wrote: »

I had a good look at the ESRI website.

Don't see anything about them being any part of the public service.

As far as I know, their main customer is the the government but they do take money from other sources. They describe themselves as a non-commerical state agency.

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

the fact they dont close for lunch is a dead give away too:p

:rolleyes:Neither do tax offices.

jimmmy

SkepticOne wrote: »

As far as I know, their main customer is the the government but they do take money from other sources. They describe themselves as a non-commerical state agency.

Their are paid by the state / their pay is on public service guidelines.

jimmmy

S.L.F wrote: »

I had a good look at the ESRI website.

Don't see anything about them being any part of the public service.

You wouldn't happen to be wrong yet again would you?

Check your facts again.
There was a two page article on public service pay in the Irish Independent of the 10th of October last. There is a thread about it on this forum. Anyway, in the article one of the ESRI workers is interviewed....and I quote. The dutchman Richard Tol , who works in the ERSI said in his article in the feature " I get paid so much its ridiculous"..... ".in the ERSI we follow public pay scales " . He says when he came to Ireland he was offered 50% more than what he was earning at the univ of Hamburg.


Now, where did you ever find me wrong, as you claim you have ? I never claimed to be infallible, I would like to know if I am wrong but the facts suggest otherwise.

S.L.F

jimmmy wrote: »

Check your facts again.

The ERSI is not part of the public service so you are incorrect

jimmmy wrote: »

Now, where did you ever find me wrong, as you claim you have ? I never claimed to be infallible, I would like to know if I am wrong but the facts suggest otherwise.

jimmmy wrote: »

There was a two page article on public service pay in the Irish Independent of the 10th of October last. There is a thread about it on this forum. Anyway, in the article one of the ESRI workers is interviewed....and I quote. The dutchman Richard Tol , who works in the ERSI said in his article in the feature " I get paid so much its ridiculous"..... ".in the ERSI we follow public pay scales " . He says when he came to Ireland he was offered 50% more than what he was earning at the univ of Hamburg.

Yes but everything is was far more expensive here so people need needed bigger wages to survive.

It's all very well talking about the lads on the big money but the reality is at least 90% of the civil service and public service (not public sector ie ESB, Bord Na Mona, RTE) aren't over paid.

If you removed all the big boys (and girls) from the equation the results would be far different.

jimmmy

S.L.F wrote: »

The ERSI is not part of the public service so you are incorrect

The salaries paid are public service scale salaries, which is the main point. It is hardly private enterprise. From the ESRI's own website :
The Economic and Social Research Institute is a not-for-profit company which aims to cover operating costs and to re-invest any surplus income in further research. Total income in 2008 is estimated at €14.3 million.

The Institute receives an annual grant-in-aid from the Department of Finance to support the scientific and public interest elements of the Institute's activities, such as:

• Publication of the Quarterly Economic Commentary and the Medium Term Review and the maintenance and development of a macro-economic model;
• Bringing commissioned work to the scientific and academic standard required for publication;
• Methodological research;
• Publicising the ESRI's work in conferences, seminars etc.;
• Interacting with public and professional bodies, national committees, visiting delegations (IMF, OECD etc.);
• Participation in major EU supported projects and networks by providing national co-funding;
• Dissemination of publications at an affordable cost and free-to-download via the website;
• Provision of services such as access to the ESRI library by researchers and the general public.

The remainder of the Institute's income comes from:

• major research programme agreements with government departments and state agencies;
• specific research projects commissioned by government departments, state agencies and international bodies such as the European Commission;

etc etc

jimmmy

S.L.F wrote: »

Yes but everything is was far more expensive here so people need needed bigger wages to survive.

According to the public servants themselves wages were up to double and treble what they were in their own EC countries, for exactly the same work. They provided the figures. In a common market, which is what the EC is, thats really taking the p**s. They compared living standards, cost of living etc with their own countries , and they concluded by saying Irish public sector salaries etc are way too high. No surprise there , as it said in the paper they are 40% above the EC average ( Eurostat figures ).

Now, back to the thread ; sick rates etc.

S.L.F

jimmmy wrote: »

The Economic and Social Research Institute is a not-for-profit company which aims to cover operating costs and to re-invest any surplus income in further research.

jimmmy you just don't get it, the ERSI is not part of the Public Service it might match the pay scales of the Public Service but it isn't a part of it

jimmmy

S.L.F wrote: »

jimmmy you just don't get it, the ERSI is not part of the Public Service it might match the pay scales of the Public Service but it isn't a part of it

Its largely paid by the government, and the government will not see it fail. Do not forget one of its employees,Richard Tol , said in his article in the feature " I get paid so much its ridiculous"..... ".in the ERSI we follow public pay scales " (. He says when he came to Ireland he was offered 50% more than what he was earning at the univ of Hamburg.).

It is hardly private enterprise when its not even allowed to make a profit, and when it works for the government is it ?

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

:rolleyes:Neither do tax offices.

Gosh, remind what time the poor souls open til again, half 3 is it?? Last time i went it was anywho, god what a long day that is.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Gosh, remind what time the poor souls open til again, half 3 is it?? Last time i went it was anywho, god what a long day that is.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Times have changed.

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

Times have changed.

Eh no they havent

http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/DRIVINGLICENCES/Pages/DrivingLicences.aspx

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Eh no they havent

http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/DRIVINGLICENCES/Pages/DrivingLicences.aspx

That's just motor tax:rolleyes:.

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's just motor tax:rolleyes:.

No need to roll your eyes, doesnt really make your point any more interesting, you'll note mine is done in sarcasm. Correction, i mean obviously the motor tax office! So, only the motor tax public servants have handy working hours, silly me :rolleyes:

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

So, only the motor tax public servants have handy working hours, silly me :rolleyes:

You're assuming that the staff there are going home at 3:30 and not doing other work after that time.

I hope you don't work in the 'knowledge economy'.

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

You're assuming that the staff there are going home at 3:30 and not doing other work after that time.

I hope you don't work in the 'knowledge economy'.

No not yet, but i am trying. Need i guess where you 'work'? Said nothing about them going home at half three. What is quite clear that opening from just half nine til half 3 is hardly convenient for the public for which the service is meant to be run. What time do you reckon they stay til? The ungodly hour of 5, god forbid half five :eek:. Simply point really what time do they close their doors to the public?? How many businesses close their doors that early, banks excluded.

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

What is quite clear that opening from just half nine til half 3 is hardly convenient for the public for which the service is meant to be run. What time do you reckon they stay til? The ungodly hour of 5, god forbid half five :eek:.

They have an award-winning 24x7 website. I suppose they close a 3:0 so as to do other work. Not sure why you're so hung up on what time they finish at. They're required to work a fixed number of hours. What time they finish at is irrelevant as long as they work during the contracted hours and get the job done. I renewed my motor tax online recently and had the new disc in under a week.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

How many businesses close their doors that early, banks excluded.

Why exclude the banks, doesn't help your position? Ever try phoning O2 customer service? Not open at all unless you count touch-tone hell as 'service'.

TCP/IP_King

NewDubliner wrote: »

Ever try phoning O2 customer service? Not open at all unless you count touch-tone hell as 'service'.

Not correct.
Anytime I phone O2 customer service I < always > get a great response.
No I don't work for them and they are just as extortionate as the rest - but everytime I call with some stupid query that girl in Clare answers everything.

murphaph

NewDubliner wrote: »

They have an award-winning 24x7 website.

Lol, not much use seeing as Ireland (thanks in no small part to monolithic semi states like Telecom Eireann and the USELESS ComReg (also public sector) dragging their heels for decades) has some of the worst broadband access in the western world!

NewDubliner wrote: »

Why exclude the banks, doesn't help your position?

Banks don't even close their doors at 3.30 anymore.

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

They have an award-winning 24x7 website. I suppose they close a 3:0 so as to do other work. Not sure why you're so hung up on what time they finish at. They're required to work a fixed number of hours. What time they finish at is irrelevant as long as they work during the contracted hours and get the job done. I renewed my motor tax online recently and had the new disc in under a week.

Why exclude the banks, doesn't help your position? Ever try phoning O2 customer service? Not open at all unless you count touch-tone hell as 'service'.

Well why cant they open til five or six which area generally accepted business hours, why cant they stay open and get whatever other work done? A well run office should be able to do just that. Why instead squeeze the interaction with the Public into narrow hours of 9.30 to 3.30 leaving massive hour half hour long queues for customers, why instead arent the opening hours timed to suit their customers rather than staff, i.e, same staff levels but split shifts opening til half 8 or whatever. Simple question, if you work full time, regular office hours how do you get to their office unless you take time off? Why arent they open saturdays? While they may have an award winning website, i bet the service the provide at their locations isnt award winning.

Why exclude the banks, shall i spell it out for you. Because if i hadnt you have come back beaming 'oh well what about the banks, they close early'. So i pre empted that, tell me what proportion of business do banks make up in ireland. Hardly excluding anything, merely acknowledging a fact that banks for someone bizarre reason typically have had un-customer friendly opening hours. Something which is changing.

NewDubliner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Well why cant they ...why cant they ...Why ..why instead...Why arent they

Because it would cost more.

Face-to-face service is expensive and the private sector is phasing it our wherever they can & replacing it with online options. Consider Ryanair for example.

givyjoe81 wrote: »

i bet the service the provide at their locations isnt award winning.

Why bet? You either have facts or you're just having a rant.

givyjoe81

NewDubliner wrote: »

Because it would cost more.

Face-to-face service is expensive and the private sector is phasing it our wherever they can & replacing it with online options. Consider Ryanair for example.

Why bet? You either have facts or you're just having a rant.

Ridiculous, you cant 'phase out' face to face service when it is still needed, if you were comparing the Public Service to Ryanair (In any shape or form), your wages would be a lot lower dont you think? Ryaniar dont cut costs just so they can pay their staff more.

How would it cost more, why should it cost more? Becuase these staff would bitch and moan about having to work 'ackward hours' and demand more money for it? Why would they have to be paid extra, explain please. Iv never been paid extra for working Saturdays or evenings, why should you be?!

Rant?! Show me the link to the awards the motor tax office has won for 'award winning service'.

I would also appreciate you not trying to take my words out of context please, at no point did I say why.. why this... why instead... include the full quote if you wish to reference my points. And do us a favour and explain why it would cost more.

murphaph

everyone and their dog dreads going to the motor tax office.