Bebate on Pat Kenny now about excessive teacher pay here

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 11:39am

#15 wrote: »

Look at that, English kids are worse off.

Worse off when teachers in England spend more time teaching?
You think the Irish educational system is better when up to 20% in Ireland cannot read properly ? And what about " And we would have some universities in the top league worldwide ( we do not ). And we would produce kids who can work things out / solve problems in a technological age, rather than recite lists in exams. Oh, and we may produce kids who could communicate with our continental friends who are so good to lend us 25 billion per year ( the ECB ). We could beg in german instead of English."

#15 wrote: »

Irish teachers do a better job in less time. No wonder we earn more.

The reason you ( assuming you are a teacher in Ireland ) earn more is because of your unions / the government being soft on you to date.

What would you think of having to meet parents on 11 evenings during the year ( not during the day ). Or taking less holidays ?

irish_bob · 24-10-2009 11:42am

jimmmy wrote: »

Worse off when teachers in England spend more time teaching?
You think the Irish educational system is better when up to 20% in Ireland cannot read properly ? And what about " And we would have some universities in the top league worldwide ( we do not ). And we would produce kids who can work things out / solve problems in a technological age, rather than recite lists in exams. Oh, and we may produce kids who could communicate with our continental friends who are so good to lend us 25 billion per year ( the ECB ). We could beg in german instead of English."

The reason you ( assuming you are a teacher in Ireland ) earn more is because of your unions / the government being soft on you to date.

What would you think of having to meet parents on 11 evenings during the year ( not during the day ). Or taking less holidays ?

one thing and one thing only dictates how much a public sector worker is paid , how sweet a deal thier union can extract out of goverment , everything else is secondary

#15 · 24-10-2009 11:45am

jimmmy wrote: »

The reason you ( assuming you are a teacher in Ireland ) earn more is because of your unions / the government being soft on you to date.

What would you think of having to meet parents on 11 evenings during the year ( not during the day ). Or taking less holidays ?

I am a primary teacher, yes. I made that clear previously. What job do you do?

I have no problem meeting parents anytime.
Less holidays are fine if it benefits the kids.
Less holidays are not ok if it is just to satisfy your jealousy.

The rest of my post was a nonsense retort to your own nonsense.

#15 · 24-10-2009 11:46am

jimmmy wrote: »

Worse off when teachers in England spend more time teaching?
?

Yes.

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 11:48am

#15 wrote: »

I am a primary teacher, yes. I made that clear previously. What job do you do?

private sector taxpayer.

#15 wrote: »

I have no problem meeting parents anytime.

good for you. Most of your comrades are not willing to host 11 parent / teacher meetings at no extra pay during the year, unlike the teachers in the UK who do indeed do so.

Absurdum · 24-10-2009 11:48am

jimmmy wrote: »

You think the Irish educational system is better when up to 20% in Ireland cannot read properly ?

are you gonna provide a source for this or did you make it up like so many of your "facts"?

#15 · 24-10-2009 11:52am

jimmmy wrote: »

private sector taxpayer.

Thats not a job Jimmy.

What job do you do?

#15 · 24-10-2009 11:53am

Absurdum wrote: »

are you gonna provide a source for this or did you make it up like so many of your "facts"?

Eddie Hobbs probably said it.

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 11:55am

#15 wrote: »

Thats not a job Jimmy.

What job do you do?

I am not required to tell anyone else what job I do beyond that. I never asked anyone what job they did. I remember you before saying you were a teacher, but I did not ask you what your job was. In case you are interested, I am not a journalist or a politician either. I do not have a vested interest in public service pay.

I am not a teacher either, but I have contributed a lot towards teachers pay over the years.

Nodin · 24-10-2009 11:55am

jimmmy wrote: »

Worse off when teachers in England spend more time teaching?
You think the Irish educational system is better when up to 20% in Ireland cannot read properly ?

We've a 99% literacy rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

Source for your claim of 20%?

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 12:00pm

Nodin wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

I stand corrected but I think some studies have shown that up to 20% of people have difficulty ready and writing properly (eg anything technical ). As anyone who deals with illiteracy in this country will tell you, many who have difficulty reading / writing will hide this fact. You would be surprised, for example, the number of elderly people who would get others to fill out paperwork etc for them. They will blame their eyesight etc. Sometimes people even get others to fill in cheques.

#15 · 24-10-2009 12:03pm

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not required to tell anyone else what job I do beyond that. I never asked anyone what job they did. I remember you before saying you were a teacher, but I did not ask you what your job was. In case you are interested, I am not a journalist or a politician either. I do not have a vested interest in public service pay.

I am not a teacher either, but I have contributed a lot towards teachers pay over the years.

Where then, do you get the qualifications to determine the rate of pay for other workers? You are not qualified to assess such things.

Paying taxes does not mean you are qualified enough.

You are not required to tell anyone what job you do, but it doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of your posts either.

eoinbn · 24-10-2009 12:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

We've a 99% literacy rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

Source for your claim of 20%?

If you read the page you would see that it said that countries with a high average income don't collect the data and are assumed to have a 99% literacy rate.

Nodin · 24-10-2009 12:08pm

jimmmy wrote: »

I stand corrected .

Nothing new there.

jimmmy wrote: »

but I think some studies .

You weren't asked for your thoughts on the matter, you were asked for a source for your claims. If such studies exist, then just link to them. I don't think its an unreasonable request.

jimmmy wrote: »

As (...............)cheques.

O look, anecdotes. Doesn't start off with the usual "I know two people in...." but follows the usual pattern.

mick kk · 24-10-2009 12:08pm

im begining to get very sick of all the debating at the moment in the media about what everyone earns....a garda in the public sector vs a shop security guard in the private sector... a teacher in UK vs a teacher in Ireland....everyones pay (irregardless of qualifications) in relation to the average industrial pay...

Fact is, anyone who has a job should look for the best pay/conditions they can get.
I know things are very bad at the moment and country is almost broke and we need to improve our competitiveness etc. if we are to have export led growth but people are very jealous at the moment about what everyone else is earning and what their pay and conditions are. We all think we know how easy it is to be a teacher/civil servant/any public sector worker and start slating and criticising what they do. Theres plenty of people in the private sector as well who are scratching there arses all day.

I accept that we will have to take a pay cut as the gov. simply cannot afford to pay us what they used but the private sector are crying out for this at the moment....surely they will be the ones who suffer from this when their public sector customers cut back even further on their spending - surely they see that my pay cut will result in me spending less which will result in them spening less etc.. and on and on it goes.....

I bought a house during the boom around the time bertie ahern told us all to either buy houses or commit suicide. I'm ready for my pay cut...in fact i will gladly take a 30% pay cut if someone will cut my mortgage repayments by 30%.

We are all in this together and the jealousy that everyone is expressing about everyone else is shocking. When my leaving cert students were leaving school to earn more per week painting and decorating during the boom than I was, I was happy for them that they had such great opportunities.

thats my two cent on all this for now

brucefan · 24-10-2009 12:10pm

We have two universities in Top World 100 Universities - TCD and UCD. Was on news lately!

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2009/results

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 12:22pm

brucefan wrote: »

We have two universities in Top World 100 Universities - TCD and UCD. Was on news lately!

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2009/results

wow ; trinity at 43 and UCD at 89 . Nothing to be proud of.
Look at the very country whose education posters on this very thread have compared us unfavourably to : the UK. They have 4 universities in the top 5 worldwide. Wonder if it has anything to do with teachers there working nearly 1300 hours per year instead of only 735 here ?
And teachers there holding 11 teacher / parent meeting in the evening during the year etc ? Maybe young teachers here are more concerned about being able to keep up their payments on their holiday home in Croatia ?

parsi · 24-10-2009 12:28pm

Strange how bridgitt has gone quiet.

#15 · 24-10-2009 12:38pm

jimmmy wrote: »

wow ; trinity at 43 and UCD at 89 . Nothing to be proud of.

Two universities in the top 100 is not bad. Look at the the German universities Jimmy?

Look at the very country whose education posters on this very thread have compared us unfavourably to : the UK. They have 4 universities in the top 5 worldwide. Wonder if it has anything to do with teachers there working nearly 1300 hours per year instead of only 735 here ?

How have teachers got anything to do with university rankings? You do realise the criteria for the rankings?

Here is the criteria, http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/methodology/simple-overview

(See how I can provide links, you might return the favour in other threads)

And teachers there holding 11 teacher / parent meeting in the evening during the year etc ? Maybe young teachers here are more concerned about being able to keep up their payments on their holiday home in Croatia ?

Many young people like myself, in both the private and public sector, are paying off college loans.
But I know no young person who owns a holiday home in Croatia, no matter what job they have.

Do you really think your posts are credible when you spout rubbish like that?

themusicman · 24-10-2009 12:51pm

Regarding the often quoted English Hours

That number, depite what was said in other posts is the total amount expected and includes the 11 nights when they meet parents, all their marking, setting tests, class preparation, meetings etc.

We are only interested in the class contact hours in this country hence the disparity of the figures(although the Bord Snip Nua report has suggested this should change.)

However a cautionary word. I know teachers who put in many hours outside the 735 on musicals, sports, trips, projects. In fact my own child spent a large part of his Easter Hols in school doing his Junior Cert Projects and the teacher was there, unthanked and castigated by the public but appreciated by his students. If we swing too far to counting hours we could be in trouble(as happened in Scotland where sports were abolished as teachers refused to do them when conditions changed) I know which I would prefer.

irish_bob · 24-10-2009 1:52pm

mick kk wrote: »

im begining to get very sick of all the debating at the moment in the media about what everyone earns....a garda in the public sector vs a shop security guard in the private sector... a teacher in UK vs a teacher in Ireland....everyones pay (irregardless of qualifications) in relation to the average industrial pay...

Fact is, anyone who has a job should look for the best pay/conditions they can get.
I know things are very bad at the moment and country is almost broke and we need to improve our competitiveness etc. if we are to have export led growth but people are very jealous at the moment about what everyone else is earning and what their pay and conditions are. We all think we know how easy it is to be a teacher/civil servant/any public sector worker and start slating and criticising what they do. Theres plenty of people in the private sector as well who are scratching there arses all day.

I accept that we will have to take a pay cut as the gov. simply cannot afford to pay us what they used but the private sector are crying out for this at the moment....surely they will be the ones who suffer from this when their public sector customers cut back even further on their spending - surely they see that my pay cut will result in me spending less which will result in them spening less etc.. and on and on it goes.....

I bought a house during the boom around the time bertie ahern told us all to either buy houses or commit suicide. I'm ready for my pay cut...in fact i will gladly take a 30% pay cut if someone will cut my mortgage repayments by 30%.

We are all in this together and the jealousy that everyone is expressing about everyone else is shocking. When my leaving cert students were leaving school to earn more per week painting and decorating during the boom than I was, I was happy for them that they had such great opportunities.

thats my two cent on all this for now

the only people ive heard compare guards to doormen or store security men are unions during some of thier straw men arguements

interesting how you would be willing to take a 30% pay cut if 30% of your mortage was waved , intereasting line of negotiation at work there , il try using it sometime , see how far i get with the boss

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 2:03pm

" trinity at 43 and UCD at 89 . "

#15 wrote: »

Two universities in the top 100 is not bad.

Would we be higher up the league table if teachers here spent more than 735 hours teaching....any surprise the UK have 4 universities in the top five when their teachers spend almost 1300 hours teaching, according to the Irish teacher now working in England, who was on the radio yesterday + interviewed by Pat Kenny ?

Plus the teachers attitude was contrasted with the UK ....here teachers will not do 11 teacher / parent meetings in the evening during the year, to suit parent. They want them during the day.

Nodin · 24-10-2009 2:13pm

jimmmy wrote: »

" trinity at 43 and UCD at 89 . "

Would (.............) the day.

Quoting yourself already Jimmy?

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 2:17pm

no, I was merely making the point who the universities were and what position they were in. Not to your liking obviously. Would you prefer we had 4 in the top 5, like the UK has ? If our teachers put in as many hours work as the UK teachers it would be a help.

_Kooli_ · 24-10-2009 2:21pm

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not required to tell anyone else what job I do beyond that. I never asked anyone what job they did. I remember you before saying you were a teacher, but I did not ask you what your job was. In case you are interested, I am not a journalist or a politician either. I do not have a vested interest in public service pay.

I am not a teacher either, but I have contributed a lot towards teachers pay over the years.

Come on now.
We all know you are on the dole

Obviously you dont work, given the amount you post on boards.

Nodin · 24-10-2009 2:24pm

jimmmy wrote: »

no, (............)a help.

That nonsense was already refuted above by another poster. Try addressing that, rather than attempt to use me as an excuse to try to slip the same tired crap through again.

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 2:31pm

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Come on now.
We all know you are on the dole
.

I am a private industry taxpayer, the rest is none of your business. I never asked you or anyone what they worked at. I could work shifts, I could work in a seasonal industry, I could be lots of things, but I am not on the dole. However, even if I was a public sector worker, I would feel the same about govt expenditure as I do, just like the half a dozen public sector workers in the paper recently, who all thought Irish public sector pay was too high.

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 2:33pm

Nodin wrote: »

That nonsense was already refuted above by another poster.

What nonsense are you talking about ?

And will you answer the question already put to you : Would you prefer we had 4 in the top 5, like the UK has ? If our teachers put in as many hours work as the UK teachers it would be a help.

Nodin · 24-10-2009 2:36pm

jimmmy wrote: »

What (...........) be a help.

You're getting all confused again Jimmy. That question (a) wasn't addressed to me and (b) was already dealt with in a previous post, by another poster, which you are studiously avoiding.

jimmmy · 24-10-2009 2:41pm

Nodin wrote: »

You're getting all confused again Jimmy. That question (a) wasn't addressed to me and (b) was already dealt with in a previous post, by another poster, which you are studiously avoiding.

No Nodin, my post no. 55 was in direct answer to your post no. 54.

Now, please answer the question : Would you prefer we had 4 in the top 5, like the UK has ?

Bebate on Pat Kenny now about excessive teacher pay here

Comments