Weaning...

ecaf

We just brought our own Mare & Foal in for weaning this week. We had experience of this with a brood mare, who obviously is used to this and was far more relaxed.
Our normal way is to bring both into one stable, and then remove the mare and put her in the next stable, she can see and touch over the wall and it usually works well with the other mare.
This mare is new to us since last year, is normally very calm and sensible, but got a bit upset bringing her in, and wasn't helped by the other foal bursting through the fence to join us, when he seen them going in without him and his mother.

Anyway we got them in, fixed the fence and let the two settle in the one stable before moving the mare into the next one.
Both were unsettled and nearly sulking after this. Mare started eating over Wednesday night but the foal wasn't eating, she might have been getting some of the mare's food over the corner of the wall but not much. She was feed some cooked mix yesterday and this morning, we are getting fresh hay today of a neighbour, because last year's hayledge must be a bit sour tasting to a foal that didn't have it before, the mare is eating it though, as is the other mare that is still out in the field. I think the shock of what happened is wearing off now though, it probably didn't help her that the mare was upset too, whereas the other foal from the brood mare last year didn't have this because the mare just acted normally, and was glad to have him off her, plus the fact that she was in-foal again so she was ready for him to be gone.

She is starting to come round a bit, I fed her some hayledge by hand this morning and maybe she just needs time and a bit of pampering. Plus the fresh hay will be given to her this afternoon.

I'm hoping she will just eat the fresh hay and everything will be fine, but any other advise that might help would be appreciated? I feel bad, getting the guilt trip of the two of them. Plus my foal was stamping the ground and biting the wall. She also tried to roll when she got in and got herself stuck in the corner, but hopefully she has learned from this. I didn't help her up because she was in a strop, but I watched and she corrected herself quickly.

Sorry for the long post, my foal is just a dote and I wouldn't like her to be in a panic for another day and not eat.

shanagarry

Were you feeding the foal much before you brought her in? Also, is she used to being inside or is that new too? It may be a bit too much change for her in one go?

I guess the best thing is to keep an eye on her and see how does for the next day or so? Would she eat milk pellets for you? Also make sure you've a very thick bed and great banks so that she doesn't hurt herself.

We normally separate ours outdoors where there is less chance of them doing themselves an injury if they freak out.

ecaf

Ah! Milk pellets going to try and get my hands on some. Thanks. I didn't like feeding her too much course mix, she could be jumping out the door.

No she wouldn't have been in that much, but that is no different to any of the times the other foals were brought in for weaning. Just out of interest, when you separate them in the field, what would you do? I mean we have 2 mares and their 2 foals, the other foal isn't ready for weaning yet, he's a month younger. So who would you put with who in our case? Leave the mare on her own and put her foal and the other mare and foal together? Or separate them in their own field and put the other mare and foal in another field?

Yes she has a good thick bed, but I could have made the banks a bit bigger. I did in the other stable, just a bit slack on that bit. I can sort it out later though.

shanagarry

Just make sure she gets enough feed into her as well - remember you've taken her away from her mum and off grass, so you need to replace that adequately.

As to why some foals are fine, and some aren't, that's just the nature of the beast I think. I think how the dam behaves determines a lot of it too, and you said your previous mare was pretty calm about the whole thing. If you breed this mare again, I'd be inclined to spend some time bringing the mare and foal in and out prior to weaning, and also feeding the foal beforehand to get it used to the food and part wean him off the milk naturally. You want the weaning itself to be the only stressful part of the process.

We're lucky in that we only have one foal at a time and a couple of horses so thinking back to the youngest (she's two now), I think we left the foal with the other mare she knew well, and the dam was left with our other two. With yours, I'd maybe have waited until both foals were ready and done both the same time, leaving the foals together and the mares together. But no guarantee that would be hassle free either, it's just tough with some of them.

convert

When I weaned my mare from her foal, she was a little upset as it was her first foal, but, like you, we had two stables side by side where they could see and talk to each other, but it was through bars rather than over a wall. However, the foal really wasn't pleased about this, even though she had been in quite a bit (she was born a few summers ago when it just didn't stop raining, though I suppose not much has changed going by this summer :rolleyes:) and through a temper tantrum, kicking out at the walls, pawing and biting at the door, though she settled down after a day or two.

It is quite a traumatic experience for both the mare and foal, so don't be overly worried that the foal has feaked out a bit and isn't eating that much, but, if you can, do try to ensure that it eats as much as possible, even if that means you staying with it for a bit encouraging it to eat (though try not to do it too much so that it doesn't become a habit!). Foal pellets would be a good idea, as well as the nice soft/fresh hay which you've managed to get. Also ensure that the foal is drinking sufficient quantities of water so as to ensure that it doesn't get dehydrated.

Do you have another horse/pony that you could let the foal out with so that it had a companion to rely on when the mother isn't there? We've been lucky in that we've always had a pony around the place who takes the place of the mother for a while.

Wicked

i'm really glad you started this post because i'm actually going to wean my foal this weekend aswell.

I've been feeding my lad foal pellets for the past two weeks in the field. he loves them now and comes looking for them.

i'm lucky in that he gets on very well with a two year old pony i have so my plan is to put him and the pony on one side of the fence and mammy on the other.

This may not work, some people say that you should separate them out of ears reach, but i'm gonna give my idea a go, sure the worst that can happen is that he'll break back into mammy.

its important to have them eating before weaning because they'll get stressed out and may loose condition.
i know how you feel though, my lad is a really sweet heart and he's stunning so i don't want to upset him, but mammy needs a break to.

ecaf

Thanks for all of the advice, it seems that it was just a bit of a tantrum, combined with the fact that she didn't really like hayledge.
Some fresh hay did the trick, but she then had another canary when we moved the mare to the stable opposite her for cleaning out. She then tried to jump the door, so I quickly moved mum back beside her and just cleaned out around them instead.
Talk about a spoilt brat! :rolleyes:
It would be handy if we had another companion for her, but the other foal is younger and cannot be weaned yet. I did have the idea of waiting a month and weaning them both together, but it was turned down. I think in hindsight the person in question would do it that way next time!

Now I have to get her used to the idea that the mare is going to be taken away from her for exercise and eventually riding. She will be back in the field with her buddy, but from what I have seen over the last week, I don't think she's going to be too happy about her mum being taken away! What to do???

Wicked

following up from my previous post, don't try and separate a mare and foal by putting on on either side of a fence.
I put Sonny on one side on Saturday and the mare on the other, it took about two minutes for him to trot up and jump it!

so i now have them in the stables accross from each other. They were put in Sat and doing well, the mare's elder dosn't seem to be getting smaller but i'll leave her in for a week or so.

glad yours went well

ecaf

Thanks wicked, yeah I've had 2 attempts like that. The mares own foal went to jump the stable door when she thought the mare was leaving. And the companion foal burst through a rope fence when we were removing them from the field.
And there I was thinking it would be as easy as last year! Doesn't always go to plan, but thankfully were at the end stage.
Now I'm worried about letting them back together too soon, hope she is fully dried up before I do! Last year the other mare was in foal again, and she simply wouldn't let her foal back near her after 1 week weaning.

Wicked

i was afraid he'd jump out over the door to but he was fine. i'm not sure how long to leave them separated for. The mare still has a big elder, do you wait until she is completely dried up?and can they go back out together then?

how much are you feeding your foal? sonny is on about 8 pounds a day.

MDFM

i always find weaning a lot easier when you can separate the mare and foal from eachother by keeping them out of sight and earshot of eachother. I'm lucky enough to live beside another yard and i weaned my mare and foal there - i stable the foal there for a few days and bring the mare back home straight away, usually keeping her in for 2-3 days. but i always stable another horse beside the mare during this time so she at least has company. for the the past few years incl this year all has worked out ok, and we let the mare back out to grass usually on the 3rd day with another horse. the foal is also stabled during this time, surrounded by other horses. this years foal was a little bit more difficult and we had to keep her in for a week..we did try letting her out with other horses after 3 days, but she make a break for it and almost came home to her mum! anyway, she was fine eventually after other few days. mainly cos we started to work on her leading and trotting in hand and that tired her out - she was delighted to get out to the field eventually and eat some grass.
as regards feeding hard feed..well, whatever her mum was eating when they were together, well she would help herself to it aswell, inspite of me buying her her own foal pellets and wasting plenty of money on it as well! really if you can provide your foal with good quality hay/haylage/grass then the protein/fibre content should be enough for him then. the stress of weaning can cause scour occasionally in the foal so i would avoid any high protein feed for a while during this time.

Wicked

yeah the vet said that separating them out of earshot would be best but unfortunately i can't do that.

they seem to be getting on ok now and the mare isnt talking to the foal as much as she was. i would put her out but i'm afraid of upsetting the foal because he is doing so well, eating up and not stressed out but my dad said the mare would be better out when weaned.

shanagarry

In terms of the final separation, you just have to rip the plaster off really. Yes, they will be upset for a while, and you have to watch for them going too crazy, but they will settle down pretty quickly. Just make sure all those fences are up to scratch and they know what an electric fence is if necessary!

We have put ours back in together, but we generally keep them apart for a couple of weeks, and certainly until the mare is bone dry. The vet can give you stuff to dry the mare if it's not happening naturally. But I would try a full separation first before going that route.

I'm now grateful for how lucky I've had it - the mare we've bred the most is as cool as a breeze and we have her years so she trusts us completely with her foals. It's actually funny, if the youngsters are getting freaked out, she will run up and nicker to them and they calm down and she goes off again. It's as if she says, 'relax, it's ok'. She did it recently when we were doing some work with her two year old and it was very cute.

Wicked

thats great, unfortunately sky is very attached to the foal and she's like that with other horses aswell, maybe she got bad experience before i got her, that i dont' know.

i'm going to let her out this evening for an hour and see how we get on.

thanks for all the advice.



any pictures of your foal? they'd be cool to see

skink

Wicked wrote: »

following up from my previous post, don't try and separate a mare and foal by putting on on either side of a fence.

thats actually quite ridiculous! i am amazed at what some people do when trying to wean foals. Not the worst i've come across though, try putting barbed wire between a mare and foal, then you'll see a mess! i really think there should be a licence obtained after a course with exams before people are allowed to breed any animal

convert

Mod warning: Please keep all posts civil and polite.


Skink, this is an official warning.

Wicked

i very much agree with you skink. i don't think anyone should put barb wire near horse's let alone between them. thankfully mine was just white tape.

it probably did sound unusual that i tried weaning the mare that way, however i weaned my connemara last year the same way and had no problem.

although the concept may sound ridiculous, that is how alot of farm animals are weaned.

skink

ok so apparently i am rude, obnoxious, uncivil and unpolite, here it is in plain polite english;

wicked i think your method of weaning leaves alot to be desired, it is not quite effective to expect a successful weaning while leaving both animals out on grass, as it increases the risk of injury, and possibility of the the animals being reunited, as you experienced yourself. Now i went off and found some useful descriptions on how to properly wean your foals, and hopefully educate anyone looking for information on how to do it right

It tears at your heartstrings, but if you have a foal around, sooner or later you will need to make some decisions regarding weaning. In this article I’ll try and shed some light on the two main questions you may have, when you should wean and how you should go about it.

The main concerns for the timing and method of weaning are stress and an accompanying increased probability for illness or injury. While there is some disagreement among experts just how the deed is to be done, all agree that the foals should be eating comfortably on their own from a creep feeder before weaning and most consider it best to wean between 4 and 5 months of age if possible. Here are some questions you may want to ask yourself while deciding when you should wean.

* Is the foal currently ill or has the foal recently recovered from an illness? If the answer is yes to either of these, you should wait until the foal is healthy before proceeding.
* Does the foal remain close to the dam at all times and appear to panic when separated? Before weaning, foals should be showing definite signs of independence by associating freely with other foals without being too concerned about the location of the dam.
* Do you have another foal of similar age? Misery loves company. Regardless of the method used, having company will make things go more smoothly. It is best to group foals that have been raised together in order to reduce the risk of exposing the foal to new diseases during this time.

As for the question of how, there are two basic approaches, abrupt and gradual. Some experts, who would liken weaning to pulling tape from skin, will tell you that short-term stress is better than subjecting foals to the more prolonged stress experienced using a gradual method. For others, the reduced stress offered by gradual weaning methods seems best, regardless of its duration.

One example of an abrupt method:

Step 1. Place at least two mares with foals in adjacent stalls overnight.

Step 2. The following morning, remove any buckets from the stall then remove the mares to a place out of sight and earshot from the foals. After the foals begin to regain some of their composure, replace the buckets and leave the foals alone for the remainder of the day.

Step 3. The following day, if the foals are not broke to halters, it is a common practice to place halters on the foals with leads that are 4- 4.5ft in length (just long enough to be reached by a hind leg). Leads made of ¾ " nylon cord work very well as drag lines. They're big enough to grip, they can be melted on the end to prevent fraying instead of having an end splice or knot that can become snagged. Another plus is that when they get dirty and packed with mud, they become rigid enough to prevent entanglement.

Step 4. After allowing some time for adjustment, calmly begin to handle the foal. However, at this stage a foal’s attention span is very limited so you should keep handling sessions shortened to about 15 minutes or less.

One example of a gradual method for weaning:

Step 1. Retain mares with their foals in stalls or a small corral for several days.

Step 2. Take mares into an adjacent stall or pen for 3-4 days. (Note: the separating fence should not permit nursing, and should be examined closely for sturdiness, loose nails and wire).

Step 3. Make food and water available on the side of the stall near the mare.

As with the decision of when to wean, the ideal weaning method for you may depend on several factors that pertain to how your facility is laid out, and how much handling your foal has experienced prior to weaning. Here are some of the concerns you may have when deciding on a weaning plan.

* How big is your place? If you cannot remove the mares completely from the foals proximity (out of earshot) abrupt weaning is not an option. To do so would incur more stress over a long time.
* Do you have stalls? If you do not have a safe and confined area such as a stall, abrupt weaning is probably not a good option for you either. Foals which are separated completely from their dams in corrals or pastures will be much more likely to injure themselves regardless of the relative safety of the fencing.
* Has your foal been broken to lead? If not, you'll probably want to use an abrupt weaning method. In the days immediately following weaning the foal will be somewhat insecure. This provides an opportunity for you to become a source of leadership and reassurance (these are properties the foal is accustomed to receiving from the dam). By beginning your new relationship with the foal the following day after weaning, you can often prevent the development of bad habits by establishing yourself as an influence before the foal becomes too "self reliant". Depending on your circumstances, you may want to wean on Friday morning so you can plan several short stall visits over the weekend. This will help the foal to adjust from the relationship he had with his dam to the relationship he will quickly seek to have with you. Foals that are not handled and are weaned using a gradual method will typically require considerably more time and effort in convincing them why they might want to listen to you.

If your foals have been handled regularly, you may wish to wean them in small groups. However, regardless of how gentile your foal may be, keep it up in a stall or a small pen. Giving it too much space during this period will promote panic and the foal will be more likely to act in a frantic and dangerous manner.

If you have only a single foal to wean, a gradual method would be best. In addition, if your single foal has not been trained to accept the halter and lead, now would be the best time to start, while still at the mare's side.

What about the mare? Remove grain or other feed concentrates from her diet for a period of 7-10 days after the foal is weaned. If you have grass hay, feed it. If you have only alfalfa, cut the amount fed to 1% of the mares body weight (the minimum roughage requirement). This will aid in slowing lactation and help to guard against founder and colic as her lactation process shuts down. As for which weaning method is best for mares, both are probably about the same. However mares may "dry up" faster when an abrupt method is used. Finally, regardless of the method you plan to use, always wean in the early morning so that it will be cooler during the most stressful period and both the mare and foal will have the entire day to adjust before nightfall. This will also give you the benefit of being able to look in on things from time to time. Good Luck!

http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/articles/022_weaning.htm

And for wicked, i thought you might want how to safely wean your foal.

In Preparing Your Foal For Weaning we looked at a few necessary steps and considerations to undertake in order to prepare your foal for a safe horse weaning. This article will assume you have already taken the necessary steps to determine your foal is now ready to be separated from his dam.

The major factors to keep in mind during the weaning period are:
Surroundings
It is essential that the stall you keep your foal in is safe and secure. The stressed foal may attempt to rub against a wall or stall door, rear, etc. Make sure there are no nails or similar obstructions that your horse could catch his "coat" on. Also check the ground and ensure there isn't any bailing twine, hay nets or any other similar obstructions that could potentially tangle around your foal's legs. Of course these are good practices for any horse and stall, but it's of particular importance to young, stressed foals.

In addition I recommend weaning the foal in the stall or containment area that he is already familiar with if at all possible. The adult dam will be able to handle an unfamiliar territory far better than the young foal.
Feed
Make sure your foal has plenty of clean water and roughage to eat throughout the day, as well as daily servings of grain or pellet. Chances are your foal will not at all be interested in the hay initially, but once he begins to settle down the food can be a good stress reliever. People often eat to relieve anxiety or stress, and the same is true of horses.
Companionship
It is often a good idea to wean multiple foals together so that they may be turned out in the same paddock and socialize with each other. Although the foals will gain little comfort from their peers during the first hours of separation, eventually they will find the companionship to be reassuring.

If there is no other foal on the premises then don't worry – direct contact with peers of like age aren't absolutely mandatory for a safe weaning. In fact if you introduce your foal to other horses incorrectly during the weaning period, you can actually create a lifelong problem by making your horse herd-bound.

Keep in mind that there are two points during a horse's life that he is most vulnerable and impressionable: the first hours of his life and the weaning period. Most horse owners nowadays seem to understand the importance of properly imprinting their foal, yet in my experience the weaning period is equally, if not more, important than the imprinting period.

Most foals will be desperate to find someone to fill the void left by the absence of their mother, and this is where you come in. It is essential that you wean your horse during a week where you will be readily available to spend a good deal of time with your young foal and reassure him that everything will be fine. If you already imprinted the foal or worked with him regularly, he'll appreciate your presence from the start, whereas a foal not acclimated to human contact will require a slower and more patient approach. Either way, how you interact with your foal during this weaning period can determine how he will behave for life.

Earlier I mentioned a horse could potentially become herd-bound during the weaning period. This is generally caused when a vulnerable foal is placed with another horse (whether the other horse be a foal or adult) and then left alone for the most part. The stressed foal will be much more susceptible to developing an unhealthy attachment to his peer, eventually reaching the point where he won't be able to handle being separated from other horses for any length of time.

To prevent this from occurring it's essential that you try and make the foal look towards you as his source of shelter and protection, rather than another horse. While I think it's a good idea to allow your weaned foal to share the company of other weaned foals, this contact should not be 24 hours a day, nor should it take the place of your human contact. Try to make sure the foal looks towards you first and his peers second, rather than the other way around.
Gradual Or Abrupt?
There are two styles of weaning:

bullet Abrupt Separation – The dam is taken as far away from the foal as possible, such that she is not within eyesight (and preferably earshot) of the foal.
bullet Gradual Separation – The dam is either kept in a next-door paddock or permitted to visit the foal daily for increasingly shorter periods of time.

There are good arguments to be made for both styles - arguments that will be covered in Abrupt Or Gradual Weaning?

I hope this helps, and maybe this message won't get deleted like my last post in this thread.:rolleyes:

MDFM

Crikey!!!
Each to his own..what works for one individual may not necessarily work for another, imo, but whatever does/doesnt work, doesnt always make it right or wrong either. Its not a bad idea to try different methods, see what works - the nature of the foal itself every year will prob determine how successfully the weaning process goes..most people know their mares and know how they react each year upon weaning, so that leaves the foal's reaction to see and work out how to deal with.
anyway, just adding my tuppence worth..nothing else!

Wicked

Skink,

thank you for your very informative post and opinion. you went to alot of trouble to get all that information and i'm sure people will appreciate it when the time of weaning their foals arrives. I personally will take it on board.

MDFM, i agree with you also 'each to their own', as you said each horse is different and the owners know them best.

Wicked

skink wrote: »

ok so apparently i am rude, obnoxious, uncivil and unpolite, here it is in plain polite english;

wicked i think your method of weaning leaves alot to be desired, it is not quite effective to expect a successful weaning while leaving both animals out on grass, as it increases the risk of injury, and possibility of the the animals being reunited, as you experienced yourself. Now i went off and found some useful descriptions on how to properly wean your foals, and hopefully educate anyone looking for information on how to do it right



And for wicked, i thought you might want how to safely wean your foal.



I hope this helps, and maybe this message won't get deleted like my last post in this thread.:rolleyes:

wiggy123

every one to there own way of weaning a foal...
some mares+foals differ! i hav seen mares of ours--wean the foals themselves come this time of year-if they were in foal again!

so each do-as they do! there own style/method

no method is 100% perfect+right for all mares,etc!